69153 réponses à ce sujet

[HellBovine]

BentOrgy wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Remember as well that she was put on trial despite there not really being any actual evidence against her.

Which always bothered me; It seemed so random; she was charged with bringing active geth into the Flotilla, despite having no proof nor reason to do so against her. It was a witch hunt with seemingly no cause; except that her father was known to run experiments on geth.

Did one of the Admirals feed the others false information, and then persuade them to charge her? Its weird.

EDIT: Is that true Bovine? Was it started by Koris? Its been a while for me.

It is never said outright, but it is fairly obvious. He is the only one inherently invested in the trial, and the one who pushes for both the stripping of her ship-name and her exile. He also attempts to declare her exiled regardless of whether or not she survives the retaking of the Alerai. Shala and Han would not attempt to charge her without proof and Daro has no desire to dismiss Rael's research. The only member of the admiralty who has an agenda in this is Zaal.

Modifié par HellBovine, 10 janvier 2012 - 03:15 .

[HellBovine]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Han and Shala never say anything about proof. If they were so concerned with proof they wouldn't have agreed to the trial in the first place.

So how did Koris convince them to do it?

I guess quarian trials can be based off of circumstantial evidence?

[BentOrgy]

HellBovine wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Remember as well that she was put on trial despite there not really being any actual evidence against her.

Which always bothered me; It seemed so random; she was charged with bringing active geth into the Flotilla, despite having no proof nor reason to do so against her. It was a witch hunt with seemingly no cause; except that her father was known to run experiments on geth.

Did one of the Admirals feed the others false information, and then persuade them to charge her? Its weird.

EDIT: Is that true Bovine? Was it started by Koris? Its been a while for me.

It is never said outright, but it is fairly obvious. He is the only one inherently invested in the trial, and the one who pushes for both the stripping of her ship-name and her exile. He also attempts to declare her exiled regardless of whether or not she survives the retaking of the Alerai. Shala and Han would not attempt to charge her without proof and Daro has no desire to dismiss Rael's research. The only member of the admiralty who has an agenda in this is Zaal.

Huh, I guess quarians don't believe in innocent until proven guilty; shouldn't the other Admirals have out weighed Koris's opinion, and launched an investigation before burning one of their own at the stake? At least placing her under... "House," arrest until the investigation was over? It just seemed too extreme for how little evidence/reason there was.

[HellBovine]

BentOrgy wrote...
Huh, I guess quarians don't believe in innocent until proven guilty; shouldn't the other Admirals have out weighed Koris's opinion, and launched an investigation before burning one of their own at the stake? At least placing her under... "House," arrest until the investigation was over? It just seemed too extreme for how little evidence/reason there was.

There wasn't going to be an investigation. They were planning on just blowing the Alerai up, along with any evidence.

[BentOrgy]

HellBovine wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...
Huh, I guess quarians don't believe in innocent until proven guilty; shouldn't the other Admirals have out weighed Koris's opinion, and launched an investigation before burning one of their own at the stake? At least placing her under... "House," arrest until the investigation was over? It just seemed too extreme for how little evidence/reason there was.

There wasn't going to be an investigation. They were planning on just blowing the Alerai up, along with any evidence.

And that's my point; that doesn't seem odd? "They," were planning? I can understand Gerrel wanting to, he seems like the type to just blow things up, but that's not justice, nor is it logical. And with people like Xen (Who would certainly want Rael's data.) and Raan on the Board, I don't think it would have happened the way Bioware made it.

[hand-o_death547]

BentOrgy wrote...

HellBovine wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Remember as well that she was put on trial despite there not really being any actual evidence against her.

Which always bothered me; It seemed so random; she was charged with bringing active geth into the Flotilla, despite having no proof nor reason to do so against her. It was a witch hunt with seemingly no cause; except that her father was known to run experiments on geth.

Did one of the Admirals feed the others false information, and then persuade them to charge her? Its weird.

EDIT: Is that true Bovine? Was it started by Koris? Its been a while for me.

It is never said outright, but it is fairly obvious. He is the only one inherently invested in the trial, and the one who pushes for both the stripping of her ship-name and her exile. He also attempts to declare her exiled regardless of whether or not she survives the retaking of the Alerai. Shala and Han would not attempt to charge her without proof and Daro has no desire to dismiss Rael's research. The only member of the admiralty who has an agenda in this is Zaal.

Huh, I guess quarians don't believe in innocent until proven guilty; shouldn't the other Admirals have out weighed Koris's opinion, and launched an investigation before burning one of their own at the stake? At least placing her under... "House," arrest until the investigation was over? It just seemed too extreme for how little evidence/reason there was.

Maybe their justice system doesn't need very much evidence or something to hold a trial.  As far as I know it doesn't really give any info on that aspect on their culture.

[hand-o_death547]

If that's the case then I would hate to live on one of their ships.

[Spartanburger]

Actually, the decision to blow up the Alerei may have been more thought out than you might think.

Think about it this way (I'll do my best to put it in some sort of real-world terms):

You live in a small community. One small house, one that is restricted to VIP science peoples (there's no way the Alerei could be a standard civilian ship with that level of stuff going on there), has stopped responding when you knock on the door.
So you send in a squad of marines to check out what was going on (this community is very paranoid?) You find the house to be infested with an enemy that feels no pain, has no fear, and no remorse. This enemy is capable of expanding its numbers as long as there are materials (of which there are many) and if even one of them sets off even a tiny flare it could spark a war with a horde of these enemies that would pulverize your community into dust. They butcher the entire incoming squad.

It's a small house. Everyone who was in it is either dead or dying. The infiltration squad is a total loss. Any further attempts to retake the ship would require more people going off to fight and most likely die. For the capture of one small house. Yes, space is small in your community, but the house was not really being used for space, more for research, research that is considered illegal although has the slight potential to assist in uplifting your community to its former glory.

What do you do?
Waste more lives by throwing more men at it? Or demolish the house and everything in it?


Replace community with the Flotilla, house with the Alerei, enemy with the geth and flare with transmission and you essentially get the situation on the Alerei.

I'm frankly more shocked that they even let Shepard and Co. go on in the first place. No shock that a small squad of three with top of the line equipment backed by a galaxy wide group with literally billions at their disposal with far more experience fighting said enemy could succeed though.
The only reason why they would let Shep and Tali on the Alerei is if they thought that it was guaranteed that they would die there. Tali was up for treason and most for most races that's a death sentence, and most other races are not seen to pleasantly in the Flotilla considering the general prejudice against them. Plus Shepard was working for/with Cerberus at the time.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 10 janvier 2012 - 04:03 .

[hand-o_death547]

Well when you put it that way, I can kinda see why they would want to blow it up/ let shep and friends go in and then Tali can die an honorable death and then they blow it up and go on with their day.

[Nashiktal]

Actually that isn't too weird. Plenty of courts do that around the world right now, even modern countries like japan.

[BentOrgy]

Nashiktal wrote...

Actually that isn't too weird. Plenty of courts do that around the world right now, even modern countries like japan.

Just a minor thing; being Japanese, I fail to see how anything that happened in Tali's mission is anything like our court system.

[KRAETZNER]

Unschuld wrote...

Troodon80 wrote...

I noticed that when you can't actually win a debate, you resort to insults .

The process goes something like this:
Step 1: Black & white statement disregarding any other possible view as false
Step 2(a): Incomprehension of how anything other than personal viewpoint could be true
Step 2(: Hypocritical statement/NO U
Step 3: Insults, You're stupid, I'm right
Step 4: /ragequit

Indeed

[Nashiktal]

BentOrgy wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Actually that isn't too weird. Plenty of courts do that around the world right now, even modern countries like japan.

Just a minor thing; being Japanese, I fail to see how anything that happened in Tali's mission is anything like our court system.

Not the actual system, but the guilty until proven innocent part. I don't think there is anything directly like the quarian system in any actual government.

[BentOrgy]

Nashiktal wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Actually that isn't too weird. Plenty of courts do that around the world right now, even modern countries like japan.

Just a minor thing; being Japanese, I fail to see how anything that happened in Tali's mission is anything like our court system.

Not the actual system, but the guilty until proven innocent part. I don't think there is anything directly like the quarian system in any actual government.

I'm going to try and not take that as racist, Saphra.

But I think there's been some misunderstanding; our courts system is pretty straight forward; we only convict (And issue judgment.) based on facts, and evidence, and unless there is a substantial ammount of these things, even a suspect's confession doesn't mean very much, much less any testimony against someone.

So, you could say that its the opposite; with more suspects likely to be seen as innocent than guilty. A lot of our officers will let the suspect go if certain things don't add up; which is why sueing isn't very common here.

[BentOrgy]

Saphra Deden wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

I'm going to try and not take that as racist, Saphra.

I'm sorry, is the truth offensive?

Considering you have obviously no idea what you're talking about, and that anything regarding this topic from you will be nothing but ignorant babble, this is my last post on the subject to you.

[Unschuld]

My main goal throughout my time living in Japan was not to end up in a Japanese prison.


Hopefully my words convey humor, and don't offend...

Interesting to find out you're from Japan though. I had a wonderful time living on Okinawa, though I guess it's not exactly the same as living on the main island. Unfortunately I don't think I could ever live there, only visit. Now that I have a tattoo, I'd be sad if I were to live there but be forever barred from entering a bathhouse/hotspring because of my markings.


Back on topic though...
Yeah, the trial of Tali as a whole wasn't even that realistic. I mean come on, that speech at the end refuting any evidence and acquittal of charges? Um... my advice though is to increase your suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par Unschuld, 10 janvier 2012 - 06:33 .

[S.A.K]

Team dextro loosing to Kaidan?

Edit: People at Garrus and Kaidan threads posted links to this. Its only fair this thread gets one.

Modifié par S.A.K, 10 janvier 2012 - 06:40 .

[MarqueAZ]

Tali'Zorah's helmet by Allen Amis. The mouth light is sound reactive like Tali's, too!

Modifié par MarqueAZ, 10 janvier 2012 - 06:38 .

[Unschuld]

S.A.K wrote...

Team dextro loosing to Kaidan?

IsaacShep created 50 additional accounts to dominate the polls. 

[Unschuld]

MarqueAZ wrote...

*snip*
Tali'Zorah's helmet by Allen Amis. The mouth light is sound reactive like Tali's, too!

I think I've seen that, and it seems really nicely done (better than most fan-made armor). I'd really like to know how they made the light synch to voice though. The engineer in me always likes to think of possibilities for fabricating compact circuitry for things like that, or voice modulators that add effects like vibrato and flanging to the users voice.