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[CroGamer002]

UnitedWashclothExpress wrote...

Legion shows emotion.

And they don't even know it.

[Spartanburger]

UnitedWashclothExpress wrote...

Legion shows emotion.

I'd argue that they are developing emotions, or the capability to feel emotions, as they get more and more complex. Because they have never 'felt' emotions before, they do not know why, or even what they are when they are feeling them.
Errors. Errors everywhere.

At least, that's my thought. I don't know what is actually the case until we see how it is resolved in ME3.

[sites32]

and it cant come soon enough

[T.Attwood]

Spartanburger wrote...

UnitedWashclothExpress wrote...

Legion shows emotion.

I'd argue that they are developing emotions, or the capability to feel emotions, as they get more and more complex. Because they have never 'felt' emotions before, they do not know why, or even what they are when they are feeling them.
Errors. Errors everywhere.

According to the law of evolution, emotions will have been written into DNA as it has provided a benefit to organic species (in general), for example, as an aid to learning, or helping your siblings to succeed because you have an emotional attachment to them and dont see them purely as competition (altruistic behaviour). You are effectively helping your genes succeed to subsequent generations. This process is performed through reproduction. In the absence of reproduction, it does make you wonder how a 'species' such as the Geth, which has no reproduction, will evolve over time. They are a collective conciousness, so their 'individuality' is less important. A possible similarity, is that they will turn out like a colony or bees or ants, capable self sacrifice to keep the hive mind in existence.

Thoughts?

Modifié par T.Attwood, 02 juillet 2011 - 05:14 .

[Sebby]

If the Quarians had wiped out the Geth it would have saved the Galaxy a lot of trouble. If it wasn't for the Reaper threat my Shep would have been high fiving Daro'Xen and endorsing her 100%.

[Spartanburger]

T.Attwood wrote...

According to the law of evolution, emotions will have been written into DNA as it has provided a benefit to organic species (in general), for example, as an aid to learning, or helping your siblings to succeed because you have an emotional attachment to them and dont see them purely as competition (altruistic behaviour). You are effectively helping your genes succeed to subsequent generations. This process is performed through reproduction. In the absence of reproduction, it does make you wonder how a 'species' such as the Geth, which has no reproduction, will evolve over time. They are a collective conciousness, so their 'individuality' is less important. A possible similarity, is that they will turn out like a colony or bees or ants, capable self sacrifice to keep the hive mind in existence.

Thoughts?

I'm going to take this to the Legion thread, as it is more relevant there.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 02 juillet 2011 - 06:13 .

[PhantomSpectre]

Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^What did Tali broke the law?

Well, they WERE sent to the Alarei to bring back evidence of what happened on the ship in order to exonerate her. However, when it turned out her father was reactivating geth for weapons testing, she just flipped 180 degrees and decided to screw over quarian law and her own place in the flotilla in order to protect her father from being justly labeled as Quarian Hitler for crimes he was actually guilty of.

Well, last time I checked it, Shep and Tali weren't sent anywhere. They choose to go and try to take Alarei back, finding some evidence and try to find Tali's father. (Paragon at least, possible renegade too.) And Admiralty gave permission for that. They didn't sent them there. Actually Admiralty just wanted to blow up the whole ship and they would have done that, if Shale wouldn't have persuaded others to see Tali's reaction to news about her father death. That reaction was only reason, why Admiralty even let them try to take Alarei back. (You learn this if you speak with with other quarians (Shala mostly) before going on Alarei.

But yeah, Tali did choose to ingnore evidence they found. She thought that it was best that way. And we do know how the Quarians reacted to news about what Tali's father did. It was not good. And later you can hear from Tali that the fleet had some what devided, because of that evidence. Some wants to use it against Geth and other doesn't. Yeah, the fleet was devided before, but I get impression that it just got much much worse, if you provided that evidence. So, you could say that Tali's decision to withold the evidence was actually best for the fleet.

Especially when you considerer that Xen and others did found something wrong Alarei about Tali's father work. It's still possible that fleet could benefit from the work Tali's father did, but they completely avoid a public conflict what giving the evidence would have caused. Sometimes it's not public good to tell everything government knows.

[PhantomSpectre]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Same here, even though he was a dick in trial for no reason.

Yeah, I also like Koris and his idea of trying to find a peaceful way to whole Geth/Quarian conflict.

But he is still completely idiot, when he talks in public (during the trial). When you speak to him one on one, then he is much better and actually speaks rationally.

[PhantomSpectre]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arcian wrote...

You forgot the fact that the quarians pre-emptively tried to wipe them out before even trying to communicate with them.

They couldn't afford to waste time talking to them. The longer they waited to act the worse their chances would be.

Yeah, but that's assuming that Geth's would have repelled or even wanted to repel against Quarian in some point.

Yes, it's basic theme in sci-fi that someone creates some sort of AI and then it becomes self-aware and then tries to destroy it's creators or every other organic races.

But to me, it actually looks like that Geth wouldn't have tried to kill Quarians or do anything for them, if Quarians wouldn't have attacked first. After all Geth's could have make sure that every last Quarian would have been killed, but they didn't do it. Quite contrary, it seems that all what Geth's wants is just organics would leave them alone to build their own future. That, I would say, is clearly different from normal sci-fi sterotype. So, who's to say that Quarians and Geth wouldn't have lived peacefully together for centuries, if Quarians wouldn't have spooked and tried to destroy Geth.

[CroGamer002]

^I think it was clear for Tali that would put Quarians into chaos once she saw that evidence.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I don't think that the non-heretic geth will attack the quarians unprovoked. But with the political tension shown in ME2 regarding attitudes towards the geth, it may be that Xen has some part to play in reclaiming Rannoch from the geth (whom I assume to be heretics.)

[Nashiktal]

T.Attwood wrote...

Spartanburger wrote...

UnitedWashclothExpress wrote...

Legion shows emotion.

I'd argue that they are developing emotions, or the capability to feel emotions, as they get more and more complex. Because they have never 'felt' emotions before, they do not know why, or even what they are when they are feeling them.
Errors. Errors everywhere.

According to the law of evolution, emotions will have been written into DNA as it has provided a benefit to organic species (in general), for example, as an aid to learning, or helping your siblings to succeed because you have an emotional attachment to them and dont see them purely as competition (altruistic behaviour). You are effectively helping your genes succeed to subsequent generations. This process is performed through reproduction. In the absence of reproduction, it does make you wonder how a 'species' such as the Geth, which has no reproduction, will evolve over time. They are a collective conciousness, so their 'individuality' is less important. A possible similarity, is that they will turn out like a colony or bees or ants, capable self sacrifice to keep the hive mind in existence.

Thoughts?

The way I see, the Geth will evolve through "errors" much like any biological species would. Species evolve through mutation, Geth "evolve" through error.

Or at least thats how I see it, without knowing how the Geth were designed its all guesswork. As mentioned before if the Geth were programmed with Binary, they would not be able to actually feel emotion, let alone sapient.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Define "provoked". Legion indicates the geth may be willing to attack the quarians in response to Rael's experiments.

I would say if the quarians used Rael's work against the geth, then that would be provocation enough.

[MadCat221]

Nashiktal wrote...

The way I see, the Geth will evolve through "errors" much like any biological species would. Species evolve through mutation, Geth "evolve" through error.

Or at least thats how I see it, without knowing how the Geth were designed its all guesswork. As mentioned before if the Geth were programmed with Binary, they would not be able to actually feel emotion, let alone sapient.

What do you think mutations are?  Genetic errors.  Occasionally the results become beneficial in the Natural Selection scheme of things.  Most of the times it's not.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I would say if the quarians used Rael's work against the geth, then that would be provocation enough.

Maybe, but then Rael's experiments, just that they existed, may be provocation enough.

I don't get that impression from Legion. I know he was about to send information about the Migrant Fleet to the geth. But I think that is for defensive purposes than attacking them. But who knows? It seems there will be a geth vs quarians conflict. And even Tali was horrified by Rael's experiments on the geth.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I don't get that impression from Legion. I know he was about to send information about the Migrant Fleet to the geth. But I think that is for defensive purposes than attacking them.

A pre-emptive attack would be "for defensive purposes."

Haha. True. Especially if things out in the ME universe are anything like how they are on Earth .