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[Ravensword]

sitesunseen wrote...

Lets not go down that sexuality path it just gets ugly and it always ends the same way.

Why are so many people on here homophobic?

[Spartanburger]

Ravensword wrote...
Why are so many people on here homophobic?

The issue is not homophobia (I am not homophobic and am rather sick of those who are).
The issue is more the character of Tali herself.

Her character is rather established with her being in two full games. If she was made a bisexual romance option then it is rather likely that the change will come as rather jarring to some. You can explain her change in character from ME1 to ME2, but having her change her sexuality would be much harder to put into the game and make it still seem 'true' to her character.

I would welcome her being a bisexual romance option. If it changes her character in such a way that does not make sense for Tali then I would not like nor support the change at all.

Then again, I'd only really see the change if I played as a Femshep. I generally don't but I know that many do and many Femsheps like their platonic relationship with Tali the way it is without it turning sexual.

[RavenSpectre]

Well I finally had the opportunity to read through some of the non-Tali romances, not all of them of them but most. It feels to me that there is less emotional content present from Shepard in the Talimance compared, to say, the romance with Ashley or even Miranda. What I mean is that you really get the feeling that Shepard was invested with the those particular relationships from an emotional level. I didn't really get that feeling when he's with Tali. It seems like all weight of the romance falls on Tali's shoulders (she's shows much more affection towards him than the reverse) and Shepard is kind of like on cruise control. Anyone has thoughts about this?

Modifié par RavenSpectre, 01 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[sites32]

Spartanburger wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Why are so many people on here homophobic?

The issue is not homophobia (I am not homophobic and am rather sick of those who are).
The issue is more the character of Tali herself.

Her character is rather established with her being in two full games. If she was made a bisexual romance option then it is rather likely that the change will come as rather jarring to some. You can explain her change in character from ME1 to ME2, but having her change her sexuality would be much harder to put into the game and make it still seem 'true' to her character.

I would welcome her being a bisexual romance option. If it changes her character in such a way that does not make sense for Tali then I would not like nor support the change at all.

Then again, I'd only really see the change if I played as a Femshep. I generally don't but I know that many do and many Femsheps like their platonic relationship with Tali the way it is without it turning sexual.

Thank you sir. Well said.

[Hekate]

Personally I agree that it would be stupid to change Tali's sexuality all of a sudden, especially after what was shown in the second game. Though that doesn't stop me from being upset that she wasn't bi in ME2, I rarely play as male shep so I've hardly experianced Tali romance.

That's one thing I've never been fond of in regards to ME, it's the future! Why are the only bi characters Asari? Liara's the only bi choice. Other then that if you're FemShep you're stuck with the guys. I don't like guys, I don't want any of them!

But then into spoiler territory, am I the only one who doesn't mind that Tali and Garrus are gonna be together in ME3? I mean sure I would of preferred her to be with Kal Reeger, but this is nice too. They always get the best fanart together.

Though I gotta say, where's all the Tali and Liara together fanart? I have one piece of that. Nothing else. Seems weird that the two most beloved characters have never been in fanart together more the once. Are the fanbases for them really so divided? I mean I love both.

Modifié par Amieera, 01 février 2012 - 11:54 .

[Unschuld]

Ravensword wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Lets not go down that sexuality path it just gets ugly and it always ends the same way.

Why are so many people on here homophobic?

Because they feel that their character's character will be ruined somehow ("tainted" if you will) if she's found out to swing both ways when she didn't previously, even if they never experience Tali "playing for the other team" in their games. It's silly, really, and almost seems to me like a form of selfishness. I can't see a difference between making her bi in ME3 and making her available as a LI in ME2. Adding her as a LI in the second game was a combination of response to fans and the fact that adding new shinies to existing elements (additional LI options in this case) is pretty much a developer requirement. Dunno why they dropped the LesTali content from ME2, maybe the writers just decided it didn't make sense or something. *shrug*

Modifié par Unschuld, 02 février 2012 - 12:12 .

[Unschuld]

Amieera wrote...

Personally I agree that it would be stupid to change Tali's sexuality all of a sudden, especially after what was shown in the second game. Though that doesn't stop me from being upset that she wasn't bi in ME2, I rarely play as male shep so I've hardly experianced Tali romance.

That's one thing I've never been fond of in regards to ME, it's the future! Why are the only bi characters Asari? Liara's the only bi choice. Other then that if you're FemShep you're stuck with the guys. I don't like guys, I don't want any of them!

 

Being set in the future doesn't mean homosexuality will be more prevalent, though hopefully is more accepted. It's not as if it's an evolutionary advancement, or even if alien species will be like us and have the same variations in sexuality. There will always be those that are pure hetero/homosexual, and at least from my standpoint it looks like that's what Bioware tried to create a sense of (though they did hold off on m/m romances until now likely to avoid additional controversy).

Amieera wrote... 
But then into spoiler territory, am I the only one who doesn't mind that Tali and Garrus are gonna be together in ME3? I mean sure I would of preferred her to be with Kal Reeger, but this is nice too. They always get the best fanart together.

 
I personally thought Reegar would have been a better choice... but meh... even Garrus needs something to squeeze.

Amieera wrote... 
Though I gotta say, where's all the Tali and Liara together fanart? I have one piece of that. Nothing else. Seems weird that the two most beloved characters have never been in fanart together more the once. Are the fanbases for them really so divided? I mean I love both.

Likely in the section labelled "Rule 34".

Modifié par Unschuld, 02 février 2012 - 12:11 .

[Unschuld]

^ I like this concept probably most out of all of them except the hair seems a bit off/weird being white. Also if Quarians have goat eyes I will freak the f**k out.

Modifié par Unschuld, 02 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Unschuld]

I don't think they should glow, honestly. Being highly reflective though is another thing entirely, which I would be fine with. Just not goat eyes. Anything but goat eyes.

"Uhhh... sorry, Tali... but you're really freaking me out right now. Here," *hands Tali a pair of dark glasses for blind people* "Cool people on Earth wear these all the time.... and they never take them off, ever."

Modifié par Unschuld, 02 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[Ravensword]

Spartanburger wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Why are so many people on here homophobic?

The issue is not homophobia (I am not homophobic and am rather sick of those who are).
The issue is more the character of Tali herself.

Her character is rather established with her being in two full games. If she was made a bisexual romance option then it is rather likely that the change will come as rather jarring to some. You can explain her change in character from ME1 to ME2, but having her change her sexuality would be much harder to put into the game and make it still seem 'true' to her character.

I would welcome her being a bisexual romance option. If it changes her character in such a way that does not make sense for Tali then I would not like nor support the change at all.

Then again, I'd only really see the change if I played as a Femshep. I generally don't but I know that many do and many Femsheps like their platonic relationship with Tali the way it is without it turning sexual.

I played as FemShep and Tali does seem to have a crush on FemShep as well. They could've just used the same romance dialogue that ManShep uses on Tali (which Jennifer Hale did record, by the way) and we wouldn't have to worry about some lame ass coming-out-of-the-closet setup.

[Vapaa]

Ravensword wrote...

I played as FemShep and Tali does seem to have a crush on FemShep as well.

This, and.....the SB's files

[AVPen]

Vapaä wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I played as FemShep and Tali does seem to have a crush on FemShep as well.

This, and.....the SB's files

It's speculated that the SB file is possibly bugged and that it should've only have shown up for a romance male Shepard (like Thane's letter to a romanced FemShep), but it's impossible to know for certain.

Modifié par AVPen, 02 février 2012 - 01:21 .

[Vapaa]

AVPen wrote...

It's speculated that the SB file is possibly bugged and that it should've only have shown up for a romance male Shepard (like Thane's letter to a romanced FemShep), but it's impossible to know for certain.

I want to belive !

Anyways, Tali getting intersted in Femshep is not odd at all, some people complain about "changing character's sexual orientation"......ehhhh what's wrong with changing feelings and preferences ? I've seen IRL people turning gay, changing their mind, getting intersted by something else...that's how to world roll; by changes. And even more in this case; Tali and Femshep have gone through a hell of events, I find perfectly belivable that they become closer, and love is a feeling that can strike any time

[HellBovine]

Vapaä wrote...

I want to belive !

Anyways, Tali getting intersted in Femshep is not odd at all, some people complain about "changing character's sexual orientation"......ehhhh what's wrong with changing feelings and preferences ? I've seen IRL people turning gay, changing their mind, getting intersted by something else...that's how to world roll; by changes. And even more in this case; Tali and Femshep have gone through a hell of events, I find perfectly belivable that they become closer, and love is a feeling that can strike any time

Well that sort of logic flies in the face of those who believe people are born with a given sexuality. Just because they are close friends does not mean they want to jump each other's bones...

Modifié par HellBovine, 02 février 2012 - 01:49 .

[Runescapeguy9]

Collider wrote...

PLEASE READ THIS FIRST
Clan Zorah, the Tali Group: PLEASE GO HERE FOR ALL OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSIONS
Original (ME2) Thread

Please discuss ONLY Tali here.
Do NOT discuss the thread, and DO NOT discuss the fanbase.
If you wish to discuss something other than Tali HERSELF, please go here instead.
If you would like to discuss same sex romance with Tali, please use this general thread for all same sex romance topics.

Modifié par Runescapeguy9, 02 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Vapaa]

HellBovine wrote...

Just because they are close friends does not mean they want to jump each other's bones...

Following that logic, the Talimance should never have existed; claiming "realism" in ME romances at this point, makes no sense whatsoever.

The very nature of the Talimance defies any kind of realism or logic it's purely fanservice.

Modifié par Vapaä, 02 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[Spartanburger]

RavenSpectre wrote...

Well I finally had the opportunity to read through some of the non-Tali romances, not all of them of them but most. It feels to me that there is less emotional content present from Shepard in the Talimance compared, to say, the romance with Ashley or even Miranda. What I mean is that you really get the feeling that Shepard was invested with the those particular relationships from an emotional level. I didn't really get that feeling when he's with Tali. It seems like all weight of the romance falls on Tali's shoulders (she's shows much more affection towards him than the reverse) and Shepard is kind of like on cruise control. Anyone has thoughts about this?

I know what you mean.

When I first played ME2 and romanced Tali I rather swiftly joined the forums after that. I quickly joined the Tali thread in discussion and generally adopted what seemed to be the public view on other romances. Basically that meant that I saw them as boring, unemotional, and generally bad. Of course, I had not seen or experienced any of those romances, so I was being rather stupid.

Now, I still have not gone through the other romances, so take what I have to say with a massive grain of salt. I have only seen glimpses of the other romances on YouTube, but what I did see did in fact change my opinion of the other romances.
So I do actually agree with you. The other romances, particularly Jack and Thane (remember, I haven't actually seen the full thing of either so take your salt right now) seem like one that has equal weight on both parties. With Tali it seems that the struggle, if you can even call it that, is more her own and, as you said, it's the player being the one who controls it as he pleases.

But I can understand why though. For the other romances, it is really just that. A romance. I hate to generalize them and make them sound so... simple... but that's how I see them. Simple romances. That doesn't mean I don't necessarily like them, but the problems in the other romances seem trivial to the potential ones in Tali's.

With Thane you have him dealing with the loss of his obviously well loved wife. With Jack you have her walls of hate she erected being torn down and her having to deal with that.
With Garrus you have him dealing with a sitation he's never been in (Okay, I really don't have a clue what happens in the Garrus romance. Shush I meant to do it in my femshep run but Kelly got in the way, which sucked because I smoothied her before anything could go through)
With Miranda you have... Casual sex between coworkers (Yeah, rather clueless on this one too).
With Grunt you have I don't even know why I'm going here

Those are by no means anything small but with Tali you have so much more involved. First off you have the fact that she's never felt this way before. Then you have the fact that you've saved her life twice in very dangerous situations and you have risked very much for her, even if you don't have a romantic interest in her. You have done more for her than arguably any other person in the galaxy. And after that she has to deal with the very recent death of her father and don't even get me started on her daddy issues and how her very race was willing to exile her over stupid and unrelated matters. And THEN you have the fact that any sort of romance with her is going to have severe health risks involved.
Basically, with the other romances the other person is generally dealing with some sort of emotional barrier whereas with Tali you are dealing with not only massive emotional issues but a very real and very large physical one.

[Deventh]

[GipsyDangeresque]

Vapaä wrote...

Following that logic, the Talimance should never have existed; claiming "realism" in ME romances at this point, makes no sense whatsoever.

The very nature of the Talimance defies any kind of realism or logic it's purely fanservice.

The Talimance is perfectly realistic, although starting a relationship during these deadly missions is hardly logical. Very emotiona, though, which is much more important for being a romance. Miranda's ass shots and lacy lingere are purely fanservice. Jacob's abs are purely fanservice. Tali's romance subplot is not purely fanservice. I can hope you have enough sense to tell the difference.

Spartanburger wrote...

Honestly, some of the middle options are a lot better at showing that Shepard's investment is as strong as Tali's. The romance intitiation cutscene feels more one-sided if you pick only the Paragon options that all focus on "this is so dangerous, you have to be careful, I care but this is soooo dangerous."

That said, another factor that I take into account is that Shepard gets many opporunities to show care and love for Tali, if you want to interpret the actions that way, before the actual romance cutscenes. Some of the most, in comparison to other squadmates. Things like noticing how Tali is happier and sleeping better in ME1, or a passionate speech defending her before the admirality board, or the hug.

The ME2 romances didn't have this, they were new characters that needed to have the affection from Shepard established then and there, save perhaps the kind words Shepard speaks to Miranda regarding her sister at the end of her loyalty mission.

Modifié par Atemeus, 02 février 2012 - 02:31 .

[Vapaa]

Atemeus wrote...

The Talimance is perfectly realistic, although starting a relationship during these deadly missions is hardly logical.

Talimance is fanservice, Bioware made this just for the fans, witch perfectly fits the definition of fanservice: "material in a series which is intentionally added to please the audience"

Now Talimance is great and I really enjoyed it, but fact is, Tali have never shown any kind of interest in Shepard in ME1, she did in ME2, but not for in-universe realism, just to please the fans.

[GipsyDangeresque]

The Mass Effect games are nothing more than material in a series that is intentionally added to please the audience. You need to refine your definition of fanservice, if you're trying to use it to imply content with Mass Effect that doesn't fit in with the rest. It's so broad that it applies to all content within the Trilogy.

In-universe realism? Everything that's been portrayed in ME1 and ME2 has been realistic within the bounds of the ME universe, because these opening games are what establish what IS realistic within their own universe.

What Tali did in ME2 pleased the fans, just like the rest of the content in all of the entire game of ME2 pleased the fans. Are you trying to imply that the Talimance is an inferior piece of content, because people asked for it? What kind of ass backwards logic would that be?


The justification given in Mass Effect 2 dialog, and Lair of the Shadow Broker dialog is that Tali thought a romance with Shepard would be impossible because of the racial and physical barriers- but that Tali's attraction to Shepard was present during the events of Mass Effect 1, because Liara noticed them but didn't reveal them to Shepard because of a vested interest in not adding more competition while she was going after Shepard herself.

Modifié par Atemeus, 02 février 2012 - 02:46 .

[Vapaa]

Atemeus wrote...

The Mass Effect games are nothing more than material in a series that is intentionally added to please the audience. You need to refine your definition of fanservice, if you're trying to use it to imply content with Mass Effect that doesn't fit in with the rest. It's so broad that it applies to all content within the Trilogy.

I'm not saying that, my whole point is that characters can change and they did change. That point is linked whith my argumentation with Tali being a S/S romance, but since it's going off-topic, I'll make it short: if one assume that Talimance isn't unrealistic, then I see is no reason to think that Tali becoming bi is unrealistic.

Atemeus wrote...

The justification given in Mass Effect 2 dialog, and Lair of the Shadow Broker dialog is that Tali thought a romance with Shepard would be impossible because of the racial and physical barriers- but that Tali's attraction to Shepard was present during the events of Mass Effect 1, because Liara noticed them but didn't reveal them to Shepard because of a vested interest in not adding more competition while she was going after Shepard herself.

That is an afterthought, in ME1, Tali was not designed to be a LI, she became LI after, thanks for fans demands. And don't get me wrong, not saying that afterthoughts and things done a posteriori, are bad or anything, in fact I support that, I'm just stating a fact.

Modifié par Vapaä, 02 février 2012 - 03:12 .

[RavenSpectre]

Spartanburger wrote...

When I first played ME2 and romanced Tali I rather swiftly joined the forums after that. I quickly joined the Tali thread in discussion and generally adopted what seemed to be the public view on other romances. Basically that meant that I saw them as boring, unemotional, and generally bad. Of course, I had not seen or experienced any of those romances, so I was being rather stupid.

Now, I still have not gone through the other romances, so take what I have to say with a massive grain of salt. I have only seen glimpses of the other romances on YouTube, but what I did see did in fact change my opinion of the other romances.
So I do actually agree with you. The other romances, particularly Jack and Thane (remember, I haven't actually seen the full thing of either so take your salt right now) seem like one that has equal weight on both parties. With Tali it seems that the struggle, if you can even call it that, is more her own and, as you said, it's the player being the one who controls it as he pleases.

Thanks for the reply, but I was talking more about what I read about the ME3 romances. I do agree with most of what you said about the romances in ME2. I thought the beginning of a romantic relationship between Shepard and Tali was handled as well as it could be given the endgame. Pretty much all the romances in the second game dealt with a mad rush to hit the bed-sheets before the Suicide Mission.

In regards to ME3 however, Bioware has been saying several times over that we're going to see a more emotional Shepard in the game. I would assume that extends to the romance scenes too. It's just that, when I read some of Shepard's dialogue toward Tali it didn't appear to carry that emotional punch with it compared to some of the other romances. It just seemed like the writers didn't know how to make Shepard show more affection towards Tali and just decided to have her do most of it.