69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Lasien]

also, that seems reeeaaally fake...

[Dunmer of Redoran]

freedemshouldbefree wrote...

For me though that is a completely different situation. You are talking about the "default" Shepard which you can change. None of my Shepards look like that one for example. But when you think of all the other alien characters that had huge amounts of work put in to make them realistic and not being facial takes of generic people and compare that to Tali whose face is set and a copy. Combine this with not seeing the faces of any of the other quarians ever and it’s a huge shame especially when you consider that this is the last game in the trilogy and it seems rather insulting to a character people have enjoyed for many years.
I know Bioware said that they knew that they would upset one half of the audience whatever their decision was. Some people wanted to see her face others didn’t but I really can’t understand why they choose to upset both groups by doing neither of those things.

I disagree. They found a facial model that they liked and acted accordingly. It's not like the choice they made doesn't match Tali's facial structure, and the face is not a direct copy either. It is a template, but it matches Tali well IMO.

Lolol. I think Bioware has proven that many Tali fans care about her face more than they would like to admit. The point of her character was never her face. To expect any grand answer about her face or expecting some theoretical or literary perfection is beyond the point.

[xentar]

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

[WizenSlinky0]

freedemshouldbefree wrote...

I have to say I am pretty hurt by the way Bioware treated the reveal of Tali's face. For those of you who haven’t seen it here is another link.

Massive spoiler warning!

http://www.destructo...al-223344.phtml

After all that time playing a game and the work Bioware put in over years for them to just deal with it in this manner feels like an insult to tali fans to me. I am sure people will argue that "at least they showed something" but I am a teacher and if my students copied their homework from Wikipedia I would fail them and this is what Bioware did. Either show it or don’t this is a half way between and it seems almost like Bioware were afraid to make the decision one way or the other.

Huge disappointment and one of many I have received from Bioware recently.

HEY! Wikipedia is a perfectly valid reference!

As for tali's face...honestly I wanted it to be more alien. But it was within acceptable bounds. You can always just headcanon it and have them joke with eachother about what a "Bad picture she takes" and imagine whatever it is you want in there.

DaftArbiter wrote...

I disagree. They found a facial model
that they liked and acted accordingly. It's not like the choice they
made doesn't match Tali's facial structure, and the face is not a direct
copy either. It is a template, but it matches Tali well IMO.

Lolol.
I think Bioware has proven that many Tali fans care about her face more
than they would like to admit. The point of her character was never her
face. To expect any grand answer about her face or expecting some
theoretical or literary perfection is beyond the point.

Haha. Well everybody should have known from the start at least a portion of fans would be disappointed. The fact its not outright rage means Bioware didn't do that bad.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 07 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

xentar wrote...

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

Right because no one ever sends nude pics to their significant other.

...

[SSHSpartan]

Ender1221 wrote...



Great Tali vid. Is it wrong that I kinda had a mini jealous rage when I first saw it? LOL

I do believe that only happens if you never romanced Tali in ME2, If you have then that scene will never happen.

[AlphaJarmel]

DaftArbiter wrote...

I disagree. They found a facial model that they liked and acted accordingly. It's not like the choice they made doesn't match Tali's facial structure, and the face is not a direct copy either. It is a template, but it matches Tali well IMO.

Lolol. I think Bioware has proven that many Tali fans care about her face more than they would like to admit. The point of her character was never her face. To expect any grand answer about her face or expecting some theoretical or literary perfection is beyond the point.

Dude I just let Tali die.  I don't give a crap.  It's straight up lazy though to modify a stock image from the internet and use it for a multimillion dollar game.  This was one of the biggest requests for the game and they use a stock photo?  Really?  The artists didn't want to actually create a model for this?

There is no excuse for this.  None.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

I disagree. They found a facial model that they liked and acted accordingly. It's not like the choice they made doesn't match Tali's facial structure, and the face is not a direct copy either. It is a template, but it matches Tali well IMO.

Lolol. I think Bioware has proven that many Tali fans care about her face more than they would like to admit. The point of her character was never her face. To expect any grand answer about her face or expecting some theoretical or literary perfection is beyond the point.

Dude I just let Tali die.  I don't give a crap.  It's straight up lazy though to modify a stock image from the internet and use it for a multimillion dollar game.  This was one of the biggest requests for the game and they use a stock photo?  Really?  The artists didn't want to actually create a model for this?

There is no excuse for this.  None.

Most characters in ME are just composites on existing images...this is no different. If you can't enjoy Tali's character because you disagree with a route they took with her face, you are missing the entire point of her character.

[SurelyForth]

Maybe whoever was in charge of Tali's picture got sidetracked by, like, Skyrim or something and figured that as long as there was lots of lensflare, everyone in the art department would just assume that it was legitimately from the game?

[xentar]

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

Right because no one ever sends nude pics to their significant other.

...

Missing the point?

[upsettingshorts]

I don't even care where they got their cute human space elf picture, her being a cute human space elf is just embarrassing, doesn't challenge the audience at all, fails to subvert a single expectation, and is just lazy cowardly fanpandering.

Way I see it, you had two kinds of Tali fans: People who didn't care what she looked like under the mask because of who she was as a person, and creeps.

By making her a cute human space elf, guess which group you're making an appeal to?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't even care where they got their cute human space elf picture, her being a cute human space elf is just embarrassing, doesn't challenge the audience at all, fails to subvert a single expectation, and is just lazy cowardly fanpandering.

Way I see it, you had two kinds of Tali fans: People who didn't care what she looked like under the mask because of who she was as a person, and creeps.

By making her a cute human space elf, guess which group you're making an appeal to?

Yeah.  I mean, look at Garrus romancers.  Garrus is by no means conventionally attractive (in normal human conventions -- i can't speak for those who crave turian), but the ladies go nuts for him because SURPRISE, Garrus is a loveable character despite his looks.  Did they not think that Tali romancers were that open-minded?

[Brahlis]

Some of you people are being complete idiots.

[SurelyForth]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't even care where they got their cute human space elf picture, her being a cute human space elf is just embarrassing, doesn't challenge the audience at all, fails to subvert a single expectation, and is just lazy cowardly fanpandering.

Way I see it, you had two kinds of Tali fans: People who didn't care what she looked like under the mask because of who she was as a person, and creeps.

By making her a cute human space elf, guess which group you're making an appeal to?

Yeah.  I mean, look at Garrus romancers.  Garrus is by no means conventionally attractive (in normal human conventions -- i can't speak for those who crave turian), but the ladies go nuts for him because SURPRISE, Garrus is a loveable character despite his looks.  Did they not think that Tali romancers were that open-minded?

This.

Of course, I know someone said that Tali being human beautiful under her mask was a "reward" for those who chose her over conventional babes like Miranda and Jack and Ashley, so maybe BW was on to something. 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

xentar wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

Right because no one ever sends nude pics to their significant other.

...

Missing the point?

Not everything everyone does in outside of cutscenes has to be shown.

Unless you want to see Squad Bathroom Breaks.

Modifié par DaftArbiter, 07 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

SurelyForth wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't even care where they got their cute human space elf picture, her being a cute human space elf is just embarrassing, doesn't challenge the audience at all, fails to subvert a single expectation, and is just lazy cowardly fanpandering.

Way I see it, you had two kinds of Tali fans: People who didn't care what she looked like under the mask because of who she was as a person, and creeps.

By making her a cute human space elf, guess which group you're making an appeal to?

Yeah.  I mean, look at Garrus romancers.  Garrus is by no means conventionally attractive (in normal human conventions -- i can't speak for those who crave turian), but the ladies go nuts for him because SURPRISE, Garrus is a loveable character despite his looks.  Did they not think that Tali romancers were that open-minded?

This.

Of course, I know someone said that Tali being human beautiful under her mask was a "reward" for those who chose her over conventional babes like Miranda and Jack and Ashley, so maybe BW was on to something. 

*raises hand*

That was me. It's not about her face--it sweetens the deal at the end, so to speak--but her suit is more like her skin than the picture that she gives you. A very brief way of summarizing, so to speak, the "beautiful on the inside" thing. It pretty much IS her inside being released, but it's less about what she specifically looks like and more about "Under all the wrappins and trappings and exteriors is a beautiful person."

[xentar]

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

Right because no one ever sends nude pics to their significant other.

...

Missing the point?

Not everything everyone does in outside of cutscenes has to be shown.

Unless you want to see Squad Bathroom Breaks.

When a human hangs around naked outdoors, it's called naturism. When a quarian does something similar, it's called a suicide attempt.

[Brahlis]

Firstly, calling people "creeps" that enjoy the way she looks is just being a trolling retard, which isn't surprising given where we're at. Secondly, I don't see why the stock image even matters when you consider other characters.

Commander Shepard is a clone of Mark Vanderloo in game, Miranda is a clone of Yvonne Strahovski in game, The Illusive Man is a clone of a younger Martin Sheen in game, and even Liara is modeled after a real life person.

The point? The only thing there is to be disappointed at is that there's no 3D model of it in-game. The editing of the picture is exactly what they've done for a handful of other characters, just they didn't do it in 3D.

/thread's QQ

[Rinji the Bearded]

SurelyForth wrote...

Of course, I know someone said that Tali being human beautiful under her mask was a "reward" for those who chose her over conventional babes like Miranda and Jack and Ashley, so maybe BW was on to something. 

Quoting a friend of mine here who doesn't have access to the forums yet.  The unwillingness to make Tali appear alien and not human diminishes her character and her romance subplot.  They took a safe route and proved they have no trust in their fanbase or Tali.

Anyone saying that it was some kind of "reward" has degraded Tali, not praised her.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 07 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[Brahlis]

Rinji, go troll another thread. Watching you act like you know the dynamics that go into character creation and romantic subplots is pretty funny, but it's pretty annoying as well.

It my "degrade" it for you, but for the rest of us who actually have a brain, it's fine.

Then again I just fed the troll. ****.

[upsettingshorts]

Brahlis wrote...

Firstly, calling people "creeps" that enjoy the way she looks is just being a trolling retard, which isn't surprising given where we're at. 

No, I was calling the people who would have been put off from her if she wasn't a cute human space elf under the helmet creeps.

I challenge you to demonstrate how that constitutes trolling.

RinjiRenee wrote...

Anyone saying that it was some kind of "reward" has degraded Tali, not praised her.

Yup. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Of course, I know someone said that Tali being human beautiful under her mask was a "reward" for those who chose her over conventional babes like Miranda and Jack and Ashley, so maybe BW was on to something. 

Quoting a friend of mine here who doesn't have access to the forums yet.  The unwillingness to make Tali appear alien and not human diminishes her character and her romance subplot.  They took a safe route and proved they have no trust in their fanbase or Tali.

Anyone saying that it was some kind of "reward" has degraded Tali, not praised her.

How is it degradation? Keep in mind the common literary theme of "Ugly on the outside, beautiful on the inside." Compare her to all the other romanceable female characters who are ultra-sexualized, and her exterior is a suit that shows no skin whatsoever. That is, the suit itself takes the form of skin. Peeling it away in effect will reveal her psychological/emotional/spiritual interior, and if that manifests itself as a beautiful woman, the purpose of it in the narrative is to do just that: act as a physical manifestation of what she's like on the inside, since that physical form, if under the "skin" of her suit, IS the inside.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

xentar wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

xentar wrote...

OK, so, when did Tali ever stand in the sun like that without her envirosuit?

Right because no one ever sends nude pics to their significant other.

...

Missing the point?

Not everything everyone does in outside of cutscenes has to be shown.

Unless you want to see Squad Bathroom Breaks.

When a human hangs around naked outdoors, it's called naturism. When a quarian does something similar, it's called a suicide attempt.

That'll get her sick for a little bit, but it's not like she's going to tip over and die. Remember that Rannoch is far more permissable to quarians, weak immune system or not, than any other world is. If it wasn't Rannoch, I'd raise the same issue, but it is.

[upsettingshorts]

DaftArbiter wrote...

How is it degradation? Keep in mind the common literary theme of "Ugly on the outside, beautiful on the inside." Compare her to all the other romanceable female characters who are ultra-sexualized, and her exterior is a suit that shows no skin whatsoever. That is, the suit itself takes the form of skin. Peeling it away in effect will reveal her psychological/emotional/spiritual interior, and if that manifests itself as a beautiful woman, the purpose of it in the narrative is to do just that: act as a physical manifestation of what she's like on the inside, since that physical form, if under the "skin" of her suit, IS the inside.

That's not how it works at all.  Your analysis is critically flawed because the "outside" refers to aesthetic beauty and the "inside" refers to personality and character.

A big part of what made Tali - and the Quarians at large - interesting was that as a result of the fact she was covered up, we were introduced to and interacted with the inside first.   Tali doesn't look substantially different from any other Quarian female.  That changes the dynamic you're referring to completely.   

So if you're going to make some kind of TV Tropes comparison to what this reveal represents, you're way off.  It's much closer to this:

Starts as a nice little moral about how looks aren't everything, but saves the hero from actually having to go out with an ugly girl. 

Oops.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

DaftArbiter wrote...

How is it degradation? Keep in mind the common literary theme of "Ugly on the outside, beautiful on the inside." Compare her to all the other romanceable female characters who are ultra-sexualized, and her exterior is a suit that shows no skin whatsoever. That is, the suit itself takes the form of skin. Peeling it away in effect will reveal her psychological/emotional/spiritual interior, and if that manifests itself as a beautiful woman, the purpose of it in the narrative is to do just that: act as a physical manifestation of what she's like on the inside, since that physical form, if under the "skin" of her suit, IS the inside.

What you said is more eloquently represented with Garrus.  The suit is a false skin, not a metaphorical one.   A hot sexy babe is still a hot sexy babe even when she's wearing a scuba suit.  Besides, Shepard already knew what Tali looked like underneath the mask, just not the player.  Why could the players not trust their own Shepard?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 07 mars 2012 - 04:30 .