69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

You know any time someone brings up marriage with an Alien party member I have to wonder why they think an alien culture would even have marriage.

[Homebound]

because all alien cultures we know so far has a concept like marriage. and i dont mean marriage as goin to church and being in front of god, but as a binding union between 2 people.

[PseudoEthnic]

Hellbound555 wrote...

did you find the answeres you were looking for?

I wasn't looking for answers, specifically. Just wanted to get a discussion going.

[Nashiktal]

Hellbound555 wrote...

because all alien cultures we know so far has a concept like marriage. and i dont mean marriage as goin to church and being in front of god, but as a binding union between 2 people.

We do? All we know is that the aliens we meet have a mother and a father, not a marriage, at least not officially.

Take the krogan, they don't have marriage, and fathers don't even raise their own children, not without special permission. Quarians have to deal with careful population issues, perhaps due to that the concept of an open relationship is more likely? Turians follow a culture that covets craftsmen and hard workers over artists and musicions and the like. Would they have the same concept as marriage, at least how humans see it?

Really we have no info on alien marriages do we?

[T.Attwood]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

How does your Shepard feel being with Tali knowing full well that physical contact outside her suit can potentially kill her? How does your Shepard feel about the (soon-to-be) controversy surrounding his relationship with his chief engineer? How does he respond to it? Where does your Shepard see their relationship going? How long do you think it will last?

During the ME2 scene on the Normandy where you have the dialogue option of choosing whether to end the relationship (because of the danger of death), or continue with it, did make me think hard at that time of playing. It does raise an interesting moral question of, you liking someone and wanted to be with them, or ending it because it is too dangerous. The answer I came to, was unforunately a 'metagaming' one. I sort of 'knew' that Bioware wouldn't kill her for this reason, and even if she 'did' die, I would just reaload the game and choose the other option. So, if this question was posed in 'real' life, I would have to chosen remained friends. The threat of death for one night of passion doesn't seem right.

Regarding your second question, there could be a conflict of interest and potential 'bias' that is observed by the rest of the crew, causing them to question your leadership and cause problems into the future. I remember during the Omega 4 relay mission where you choose who is your technician to enter the duct, I didn't choose Tali as I thought it was dangerous and might be killed, and so I chose someone else. This resulted in the death of a different crew member, which made me realise my mistake, so I 'reloaded' and choose Tali the second time.

Another issue is the potential for Cerberus to use her as 'leverage', i.e. as in a hostage situation, which would make for some difficult and interesting choices (are you listening Bioware!!  ). I have feeling a 'LI-as-hostage situation'  will be in ME3 somewhere. Given the choice of losing Tali (or other LI), or saving a city, it is going to be a difficult one to decide on...

Modifié par T.Attwood, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:10 .

[sites32]

Tali is no child, she is aware of the potential danger being with shep but wants to try to make it work. She is an adult, and so her judgement should be respected.

[Capt_Flashheart]

Nashiktal wrote...

You know any time someone brings up marriage with an Alien party member I have to wonder why they think an alien culture would even have marriage.

I don't think people bringing up marriage with an alien party member automatically means they believe marriage is apart of said aliens culture. Besides, would that really have to be necessary for the gesture to be significant to the partner? 

Case in point, Quarians linking suits as a gesture of trust and the concept of showing their faces only to their closest friends. We have nothing exactly like that in our culture, but it doesn't stop us from understanding how important it is to Quarians. It also didn't stop us from understanding how big a deal Tali showing her face to Shepard was.

Tali would more than likely have at least some knowledge of the concept of marriage and what it means to humans. If she doesn't, it's something that can be explained with just 2 or 3 sentences (again, like how we learned about the linking suits thing).

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Nashiktal wrote...

You know any time someone brings up marriage with an Alien party member I have to wonder why they think an alien culture would even have marriage.

I have wondered this myself. I think people see relatively humanoid aliens and think that their culture must be human like as well.

[Spartanburger]

I've read a few fanfics that deal with alien marriage. Generally it is similar, but a little different. It's always a different kind of tradition with similar, but not identical terms.

Calinstel's To Survive fanfic series deals with it particularly in 'Alliances'

Modifié par Spartanburger, 10 juillet 2011 - 02:43 .

[Garlador]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

You know any time someone brings up marriage with an Alien party member I have to wonder why they think an alien culture would even have marriage.

I have wondered this myself. I think people see relatively humanoid aliens and think that their culture must be human like as well.

We can infer that "marriage" exists for many of the alien races. Salarians have marriages out of social commitment instead of amorous feelings, yet Krogan's are so desperate to breed that they share females to try and get the most babies as possible (but there are exceptions, such as the wondeful "poet Krogan").

I would say Turians, Asari, and Quarians have similar "marriage" views. Turians in ME1 and ME2 (though no females are shown) showed quite a bit of monogamous interest in certain asaris, but Garrus as the most "romancable" Turian seemed to be less of a "settle down" type, talking about prior lovers as well as initially viewing inter-species sex as a physical act first and foremost before an emotional one.

Asari's, as far as I'm aware, do have a "marriage" system, or at least they take partners for life (until that partner dies). They may have multiple partners throughout their long lives, but once they settle down and start "embracing eternity" with someone they all seem to stick with it until one or the other bites the dust.

Quarians, unlike the Krogans that are humping like rabbits, have the biggest fear of sex going very wrong for them. Even sharing suit environments gets them sick, so being with just ONE member of their own species must be a drag, let along a whole different species. That would imply a need for intimacy on a much greater scale than our own, a sense of trust and commitment, both psychological and even physical. I might even suggest it's a more meaningful and selfless show of love for another than human marriages (which can be broken just as easily as they are made... Quarians can readily do that unless they want to exponentially increase their risk of disease and death by re-linking their suits with someone else).

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I still think that it is far too much of a coincidence that other alien cultures have marriage are marriage commitments. Especially as it was originally a human religious practice. But what you say is true, if there is a ceremonial show of commitment with a quarian, then it if, like in Tali's case, a quarian becomes committed with a member of a different species, then there has to be quite a lot of trust involved.

Mind you, I am quite against Shepard marrying anyone in ME3. But I am just thinking about the quarian equivalent of marriage. It would be much more rare than it is among humans I'm sure.

[Nashiktal]

Er, salaries don't have marriage. They have breeding contracts. The only time a salarian is involved in anything romantic is when they are with an Asari.

Also I have a interesting idea on wheaten relationships, but I'll share it when I am at an actual computer and not typing with my phone.

[Garlador]

Well, all the talk of marriages has me thinking:

For those that are romantically involved with Tali, how many of her customs would you think Shepard would adopt, and how many human customs do you think she would adopt?

I come from a very culturally diverse family, one in which we ritually have Turkish meals, yet also go to Cherokee pow-wows, practice Japanese etiquette, enjoy Spanish sports and holidays... depending on which relative is visiting or we're visiting, and it's an interesting melting pot of relationships.

Even Tali herself through the Shadow Broker files was researching human customs... but the door swings both ways. What do you guys think?

Modifié par Garlador, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:12 .

[Nashiktal]

Also we should not use Asari to infer marriage views of other races. Salaries, and krogan, both confirmed to not have similar mating habits to humans both change their habits when they join with an Asari.

[Destroy Raiden_]

If Tali and shep did get married I figured he'd want a ring but her being suit bound can't really use one. Her keeping a necklace with a ring on it makes her liable to get caught in machinery or some such hazard. I imagined Quarians sewing an arm band or a stripe of fabric on their suit that says to another Quarian they're married but ultimately given how isolated Quarians are and how the only thing featuring Quarians is fleet and flotilla I think Quarians are ok with dextro x dextro relationships for health and cultural reasons but don't like or could out right shun dextro x amino relationships. I wouldn't be surprised if Tali in 3 has an Alister moment but I hope BW will let us convince her to stay with us which you could barely do with him.

I would if I was shep try to give her time on Rannoch like spend 1/2 the year living there so she's suitless and being human I'd have to be suit bound (because of the pollen and dust) unless I would be in a clean room and then do 1/2 off Rannoch on another human friendly world where the roles are reversed.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I don't think that we know enough about quarian culture to be able to say which of the quarian traditions Shepard would adopt. Although their sense of unity and their ability to work together would be nice to see in humanity

[T.Attwood]

On the subject of whether marriage exists for alien cultures, we can gain an insight into whether this would be likely, by looking at it from both a biological and social point of view. Consider these few points;
    1. If a species had a large number of offspring (e.g. fish, turtles, anything that lays a large number of offspring in one go), then that increases the likelihood of genes surviving for the next generation, so it is not important to nurture and train your offspring.
    2. Does the species in question do more than sleep, eat and procreate? I.e. In order to survive in the world, (or a 'civilization'), do they require educating from elders? Simple reactionary traits like eating and procreating can be written into DNA over time, but advanced species where evolution has not had time to write traits into DNA, then offspring will require educating in order to improve the odds of survival in a competitive world.
   3. The length of time required to educate an offspring.

Given these factors, (i.e. a species that has very few children at a single time, require education in order to compete and succeed within a civilization, and a lengthy 'childhood' in order to train the offspring), means that the parents will need to be around for a substantial amount of time in order to guarantee that their offspring has the best chance of survival to reach maturity and then procreate themselves, to continue that line of genes.

Also noting that the Quarian's have limited resources, so it is important to minimize child mortaility (which would be a waste of resources), then I believe it is likely that Quarians (and other advanced alien races) will have some kind of 'commitment' ceremony for a couple who wish to have children.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:21 .

[sites32]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I don't think that we know enough about quarian culture to be able to say which of the quarian traditions Shepard would adopt. Although their sense of unity and their ability to work together would be nice to see in humanity

Absolutely from what we know Quarians have a strong sense of family and unity between their people. I guess a few generations being cramped on the flotilla brought them closer instead of apart. The same cannot be said about humanity in many cases.

[Nashiktal]

T.Attwood wrote...

On the subject of whether marriage exists for alien cultures, we can gain an insight into whether this would be likely, by looking at it from both a biological and social point of view. Consider these few points;
    1. If a species had a large number of offspring (e.g. fish, turtles, anything that lays a large number of offspring in one go), then that increases the likelihood of genes surviving for the next generation, so it is not important to nurture and train your offspring.
    2. Does the species in question do more than sleep, eat and procreate? I.e. In order to survive in the world, (or a 'civilization'), do they require educating from elders? Simple reactionary traits like eating and procreating can be written into DNA over time, but advanced species where evolution has not had time to write traits into DNA, then offspring will require educating in order to improve the odds of survival in a competitive world.
   3. The length of time required to educate an offspring.

Given these factors, (i.e. a species that has very few children at a single time, require education in order to compete and succeed within a civilization, and a lengthy 'childhood' in order to train the offspring), means that the parents will need to be around for a substantial amount of time in order to guarantee that their offspring has the best chance of survival to reach maturity and then procreate themselves, to continue that line of genes.

Also noting that the Quarian's have limited resources, so it is important to minimize child mortaility (which would be a waste of resources), then I believe it is likely that Quarians (and other advanced alien races) will have some kind of 'commitment' ceremony for a couple who wish to have children.

You see, that part I bolded does not require marriage. As Saphra pointed out before, the offspring could be raised via a community, or even just by immediate family. (Makes sense with a Salarian)

Marriage isn't even a uniform idea amongst HUMANITY, so I don't see why Aliens would automatically have something identicle to it.

[HellBovine]

Generally speaking, the raising of children as a community would require smaller secluded tribes or clans in order to really support this sort of behavior. As a society expands to cities and other larger congregations it is a lot easier for one's own offspring to be neglected by the community as a whole. At this point it is best for one's offspring if the genetic parents have a more personal stake in their child's success. Raising children as a group works with humans in only small groups due to the fact that all children still benefit from the system. With the limited amount of offspring humans produce, and given the frequency of child mortality in pre-industrialized societies, it is a superior system to personally partake in child care. Raising children as a commune requires a great degree of organization and at higher levels would be basically impossible, just look at the american public school system. This is why nearly every human civilization has had some sort of recognized union between two individuals.

Now as for alien civilizations:
 - Salarians - have breeding contracts but I am unsure as to the size of their "clutches" or whatever they do (eggs i think). Still hold family as important so most likely personal stake in child care.
- Krogan - not sure what it was like before the genophage but now they have that female clan system where females breed non-stop to produce as many kids as possible. Given that this is a system brought upon by unnatural circumstances cannot really infer on the natural state.
- Asari - basically human.
- Quarians - very low birth rates. Need to ensure survival of only child. Great personal stake in maintaining that one child although some degree of community upbringing could arise. Society most likely similar to human pre-geth war. 300 years not long enough to corrode system of pair bonding especially at is strengthened by the danger of multiple partners and the need to protect the sole offspring.
-Batarians - don't know enough

Modifié par HellBovine, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:31 .

[Nashiktal]

HellBovine wrote...

Generally speaking, the raising of children as a community would require smaller secluded tribes or clans in order to really support this sort of behavior. As a society expands to cities and other larger congregations it is a lot easier for one's own offspring to be neglected by the community as a whole. At this point it is best for one's offspring if the genetic parents have a more personal stake in their child's success. Raising children as a group works with humans in only small groups due to the fact that all children still benefit from the system. With the limited amount of offspring humans produce, and given the frequency of child mortality in pre-industrialized societies, it is a superior system to personally partake in child care. Raising children as a commune requires a great degree of organization and at higher levels would be basically impossible, just look at the american public school system. This is why nearly every human civilization has had some sort of recognized union between two individuals.

Now as for alien civilizations:

Ah but what if the present situation makes said community work? Quarians live in "tribes" confined to ships that are anywhere as large as a life ship, or as small as a gunboat. A tight sense of community and trust is paramount, everything is freely shared amongst the ship, and everyone is one big family even during a trial of treason.

I'm not saying this is actually so, but if marriage isn't even universal on Earth, I don't see how it would be on alien planets that didn't even have the same history and cultures of earth.

[HellBovine]

Nashiktal wrote...

Ah but what if the present situation makes said community work? Quarians live in "tribes" confined to ships that are anywhere as large as a life ship, or as small as a gunboat. A tight sense of community and trust is paramount, everything is freely shared amongst the ship, and everyone is one big family even during a trial of treason.

I'm not saying this is actually so, but if marriage isn't even universal on Earth, I don't see how it would be on alien planets that didn't even have the same history and cultures of earth.

Sorry accidentally posted unfinished, edited in the rest has some more infos.

[iwillkillfortali]

I am despreate about tali Give me tali now!!!!!!!