at the end of ME2 while harbinger is talking to shepard he says the line "we are your salvation through destruction" (or something like that) I was wondering rwhat this means, does it have something to do with what the reapers will do in ME3 or is harbinger just talking crap?
"we are your salvation through destruction" ?
Débuté par
Noob451
, juin 13 2011 07:12
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#2
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 07:13
Crackseed
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Basically the Reapers believe that organic life is a waste and the only way to save or make a race "useful/worthy" is to basically melt them down to form new Reapers as part of their extinction cycle. In a nutshell anyway.
#3
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 07:14
Paul Sedgmore
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^ thiscrackseed wrote...
Basically the Reapers believe that organic life is a waste and the only way to save or make a race "useful/worthy" is to basically melt them down to form new Reapers as part of their extinction cycle. In a nutshell anyway.
#4
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 07:16
Whatever42
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Individuals of the races are ascended into becoming the cybernetic members of the Reaper nation. However, they lose all sense of individuality by use of the indoctrination field and become slave programs to a Reaper super-consciousness.
#5
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 07:34
hwf
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That, or there's a greater evil that the Reapers have always kept at bay by culling organics every once in a while.
Frankly if I was the Illusive Man I'd be quite concerned with the existance of a weapon that not only one-shot a fully functional Reaper but also tore a massive canyon over an entire hemisphere of a planet afterwards.
Dholen is a sun that has been negatively affected by Dark Energy according to Quarian scientists (it's in that system where you pick up Tali in ME2).
I've always thought that Manuel, the unhinged scientist on Eden Prime in ME1, was foreshadowing the current trilogy of Mass Effect - but since ME2 I've wondered if maybe he was doing a bit more then just that.
He mentioned that the Prothean artifact on Eden Prime was a "heart of evil", that we've "unleashed the Beast" and "unleashed the Darkness".
Now I don't think the beacon itself is a heart of evil, but you have to remember that Prothean artifacts on Mars were the ones that boosted Humanity into interstellar space by giving us access to Dark Energy manipulation technology.
Technology that humanity is essentially using for everything - as is every other sapient race in the galaxy.
Pure speculation on my part of course - take that for what you will.
Frankly if I was the Illusive Man I'd be quite concerned with the existance of a weapon that not only one-shot a fully functional Reaper but also tore a massive canyon over an entire hemisphere of a planet afterwards.
Dholen is a sun that has been negatively affected by Dark Energy according to Quarian scientists (it's in that system where you pick up Tali in ME2).
I've always thought that Manuel, the unhinged scientist on Eden Prime in ME1, was foreshadowing the current trilogy of Mass Effect - but since ME2 I've wondered if maybe he was doing a bit more then just that.
He mentioned that the Prothean artifact on Eden Prime was a "heart of evil", that we've "unleashed the Beast" and "unleashed the Darkness".
Now I don't think the beacon itself is a heart of evil, but you have to remember that Prothean artifacts on Mars were the ones that boosted Humanity into interstellar space by giving us access to Dark Energy manipulation technology.
Technology that humanity is essentially using for everything - as is every other sapient race in the galaxy.
Pure speculation on my part of course - take that for what you will.
#7
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 07:44
DCarter
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Factor in the fact that the reapers most likely had a creator since they're synthetics and it's quite possible that line was a hint at a greater threat than the reapers.
#8
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 08:02
Warkupo
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The Reapers are basically space farmers. Every 50,000 years or so they come check up on their crops, harvest what is useful, and burn away what isn't. Naturally, if they just let their crops grow unchecked, said crops would overrun the galaxy, choke, and die. Then they go back into Deep Space because if they aren't there to protect their pleasant little galaxy, Cthulu or something will run in and destroy the entire place. Granted, we only figure that out after we kill the galaxies last protectors.
Then Cthulu or something runs in and destroys the entire place.
*credits*
Then Cthulu or something runs in and destroys the entire place.
*credits*
#9
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 10:52
Noob451
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hwf wrote...
That, or there's a greater evil that the Reapers have always kept at bay by culling organics every once in a while.
Frankly if I was the Illusive Man I'd be quite concerned with the existance of a weapon that not only one-shot a fully functional Reaper but also tore a massive canyon over an entire hemisphere of a planet afterwards.
Dholen is a sun that has been negatively affected by Dark Energy according to Quarian scientists (it's in that system where you pick up Tali in ME2).
I've always thought that Manuel, the unhinged scientist on Eden Prime in ME1, was foreshadowing the current trilogy of Mass Effect - but since ME2 I've wondered if maybe he was doing a bit more then just that.
He mentioned that the Prothean artifact on Eden Prime was a "heart of evil", that we've "unleashed the Beast" and "unleashed the Darkness".
Now I don't think the beacon itself is a heart of evil, but you have to remember that Prothean artifacts on Mars were the ones that boosted Humanity into interstellar space by giving us access to Dark Energy manipulation technology.
Technology that humanity is essentially using for everything - as is every other sapient race in the galaxy.
Pure speculation on my part of course - take that for what you will.
I like this theory better.
#11
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 11:40
Medhia Nox
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It's also called - "We're going to turn you into a Reaper but grinding up your species for Reaper juice... aren't you fortunate!"
#12
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 11:40
Dannyboy9876
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"Prepare these humans for ascension"
In harbingers eyes, he is perfecting us by making us Reapers.
Fair enough.
In harbingers eyes, he is perfecting us by making us Reapers.
Fair enough.
#13
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 11:55
Medhia Nox
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The hole theme of the game is the superiority of individuality vs. a collective mind.
There's a conversation between EDI and Legion from LotSB (spoiler if you haven't played): Legion asks why EDI has decided to speak with him through verbalization. He says it's primitive and slower. She says that she does it for the organics. He asks why she lets organics limit her. EDI says that she does it because it helps organics - showing compassion.
----
When questioned about the N7 arm plate... Legion cannot answer why he put it on. This shows signs of individuality in a species previously "soulless" because of their singular have mind.
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Reapers are "nations unto themselves" - and Legion states that it's similar to the Geth collective mind. Reapers are evil - as are the Heretic geth (and presumably all geth prior to the "individual" that is Legion).
-----
Mordin states that humans are "better" than many races because they are diverse and value individuality more than any other species in the galazy. He doesn't say the word "better" - but the conversation is clear that he is praising and admiring humanity (not to mention his work on Omega).
-----
Even the black and white mindset of Samara is portrayed as archaic and too rigid in the new universe.
She is so clearly a noble and good soul (I did all her conversations - she's FAR deeper than people give her any credit for. She's not some preachy paladin at all).
Still - she knows that her "For other" is no longer valued in the universe. Now - it is "for Self" and she and people like her are fading.
NOTE: This is opposed however by Shepard who is clearly "for Other" - but, Shepard "individuality" is celebrated by an intimate relationship with the Player who makes the choices.
There's a conversation between EDI and Legion from LotSB (spoiler if you haven't played): Legion asks why EDI has decided to speak with him through verbalization. He says it's primitive and slower. She says that she does it for the organics. He asks why she lets organics limit her. EDI says that she does it because it helps organics - showing compassion.
----
When questioned about the N7 arm plate... Legion cannot answer why he put it on. This shows signs of individuality in a species previously "soulless" because of their singular have mind.
-----
Reapers are "nations unto themselves" - and Legion states that it's similar to the Geth collective mind. Reapers are evil - as are the Heretic geth (and presumably all geth prior to the "individual" that is Legion).
-----
Mordin states that humans are "better" than many races because they are diverse and value individuality more than any other species in the galazy. He doesn't say the word "better" - but the conversation is clear that he is praising and admiring humanity (not to mention his work on Omega).
-----
Even the black and white mindset of Samara is portrayed as archaic and too rigid in the new universe.
She is so clearly a noble and good soul (I did all her conversations - she's FAR deeper than people give her any credit for. She's not some preachy paladin at all).
Still - she knows that her "For other" is no longer valued in the universe. Now - it is "for Self" and she and people like her are fading.
NOTE: This is opposed however by Shepard who is clearly "for Other" - but, Shepard "individuality" is celebrated by an intimate relationship with the Player who makes the choices.
Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 juin 2011 - 11:57 .
#14
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:08
Noob451
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Medhia Nox wrote...
The hole theme of the game is the superiority of individuality vs. a collective mind.
There's a conversation between EDI and Legion from LotSB (spoiler if you haven't played): Legion asks why EDI has decided to speak with him through verbalization. He says it's primitive and slower. She says that she does it for the organics. He asks why she lets organics limit her. EDI says that she does it because it helps organics - showing compassion.
----
When questioned about the N7 arm plate... Legion cannot answer why he put it on. This shows signs of individuality in a species previously "soulless" because of their singular have mind.
-----
Reapers are "nations unto themselves" - and Legion states that it's similar to the Geth collective mind. Reapers are evil - as are the Heretic geth (and presumably all geth prior to the "individual" that is Legion).
-----
Mordin states that humans are "better" than many races because they are diverse and value individuality more than any other species in the galazy. He doesn't say the word "better" - but the conversation is clear that he is praising and admiring humanity (not to mention his work on Omega).
-----
Even the black and white mindset of Samara is portrayed as archaic and too rigid in the new universe.
She is so clearly a noble and good soul (I did all her conversations - she's FAR deeper than people give her any credit for. She's not some preachy paladin at all).
Still - she knows that her "For other" is no longer valued in the universe. Now - it is "for Self" and she and people like her are fading.
NOTE: This is opposed however by Shepard who is clearly "for Other" - but, Shepard "individuality" is celebrated by an intimate relationship with the Player who makes the choices.
i understand what you're saying, but how does it relate to harbinger's quote?
#15
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:13
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I just think Harbinger was testing out Shepard's reaction to the new lyrics he wrote for his Emo band. Thats why he kept spouting variations on it and in feeling pain in general.
Reapers are Emo don't you know?
THAT is the only reason we need to kill them all...
OR
Its that whole idea that they're gonna turn us all into smoothies (destroy us) to pump like blood round a new human reaper (our salvation in something superior).
Reapers are Emo don't you know?
THAT is the only reason we need to kill them all...
OR
Its that whole idea that they're gonna turn us all into smoothies (destroy us) to pump like blood round a new human reaper (our salvation in something superior).
#16
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:14
Raiil
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I think what he was referring to is that Harbinger/the Reapers in general symbolise the hive mind, and believe that their values- which apparently including nuking us in their microwave for baby Reapers- are the pinnacle of existence. Shepard and their crew represent the opposite- a group of diverse individuals who bond and change, but don't assimilate and stand against what Harbinger intends.
Harbinger's quote is simply a summation of what they believe. I think Nox made a good summary of what we stand for.
Harbinger's quote is simply a summation of what they believe. I think Nox made a good summary of what we stand for.
#17
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:17
Richard 060
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"You'll thank us for this one day, puny organics!"
Gotta love them Reapers - always thinking about the big picture...
Gotta love them Reapers - always thinking about the big picture...
#18
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:19
Noob451
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Valentia X wrote...
I think what he was referring to is that Harbinger/the Reapers in general symbolise the hive mind, and believe that their values- which apparently including nuking us in their microwave for baby Reapers- are the pinnacle of existence. Shepard and their crew represent the opposite- a group of diverse individuals who bond and change, but don't assimilate and stand against what Harbinger intends.
Harbinger's quote is simply a summation of what they believe. I think Nox made a good summary of what we stand for.
so basically, freedom trumps hive mind?
individuality wins?
#19
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:23
Bolboreta
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I'm quoting myself and my silly theory:
Bolboreta wrote...
Reapers shouldn't be defeated and I have my own theory about this (I'm sure a lot of people have reached the same conclusion).
Everything has to do with eezo and dark energy. The use of eezo increases the amount of dark energy in the galaxy. Each time someone uses a biotic power, a mass effect core or a relay, it's consuming eezo and generating dark energy. Dark energy destabilizes stars, so they become supernovas too soon. Also, reapers are the only creature that can use this dark energy to survive and create other reapers.
This way, we could explain the whole plot. Reapers let organics use their technology to increase this dark energy. They wipe out organics when the amount is too high, before it makes every sun to explode, and they use the energy for themselves (they keep and modify some species too, but those are controlled by them). Once the rest of the organics disappear, the pool of eezo starts to recover with the remaining dark energy (the amount that reapers haven't consumed). That amount has been reduced to a number that estabilize stars again and the reapers go back to dark space to rest. This also explains why they haven't changed too much in so many years: they spend most of the time resting.
It's all about survival.
#20
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:27
Raiil
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Noob451 wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
I think what he was referring to is that Harbinger/the Reapers in general symbolise the hive mind, and believe that their values- which apparently including nuking us in their microwave for baby Reapers- are the pinnacle of existence. Shepard and their crew represent the opposite- a group of diverse individuals who bond and change, but don't assimilate and stand against what Harbinger intends.
Harbinger's quote is simply a summation of what they believe. I think Nox made a good summary of what we stand for.
so basically, freedom trumps hive mind?
individuality wins?
That depends on how you play the game, doesn't it?
Personal opinion? I think EDI makes a very good point- when two AIs go against each other, the one with the superior coding wins. But they can't adjust themselves against the subjective minds and erratic actions of an organic. Take it how you will.
#21
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:31
Medhia Nox
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@Noob451 - because he thinks he saving them from their individuality by melting them all down and turning them into one "human-Reaper-God". A "nation of One" - basically, distilled humanity.
Of course - this requires the complete liquification of every individual human - which shouldn't sit well with most people, yet, the indoctrinated believe it to be "for the best".
Edit: @Bolboreta - I think you're indoctrinated. LOL
Of course - this requires the complete liquification of every individual human - which shouldn't sit well with most people, yet, the indoctrinated believe it to be "for the best".
Edit: @Bolboreta - I think you're indoctrinated. LOL
Modifié par Medhia Nox, 14 juin 2011 - 02:34 .
#22
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:35
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Medhia Nox wrote...
Edit: @Bolboreta - I think you're indoctrinated. LOL
Naaa, it's a theory. I still want to exterminate them
#23
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:39
Noob451
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Bolboreta wrote...
Medhia Nox wrote...
Edit: @Bolboreta - I think you're indoctrinated. LOL
Naaa, it's a theory. I still want to exterminate them
it's not a bad theory, did you come up with it yourself?
#24
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:42
Bolboreta
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Noob451 wrote...
it's not a bad theory, did you come up with it yourself?
Yes, I couldn't sleep so I thought a lot, but after reading the forums I saw more people have similar ideas. It always happens to me when I'm reading a book: I come to a conclusion, so I make a search in internet and I discover it's not original at all >.<
#25
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 02:43
Noob451
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Valentia X wrote...
Noob451 wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
I think what he was referring to is that Harbinger/the Reapers in general symbolise the hive mind, and believe that their values- which apparently including nuking us in their microwave for baby Reapers- are the pinnacle of existence. Shepard and their crew represent the opposite- a group of diverse individuals who bond and change, but don't assimilate and stand against what Harbinger intends.
Harbinger's quote is simply a summation of what they believe. I think Nox made a good summary of what we stand for.
so basically, freedom trumps hive mind?
individuality wins?
That depends on how you play the game, doesn't it?
Personal opinion? I think EDI makes a very good point- when two AIs go against each other, the one with the superior coding wins. But they can't adjust themselves against the subjective minds and erratic actions of an organic. Take it how you will.
this could've been a very interesting discussion if we could've gotten bioware in on it.
