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Making a better mouse trap.....Ideas for improving the Adept class for ME3.


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#1
dreman9999

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dreman9999 wrote...

 
2. Charging Biotics.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In
Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc,
we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy
biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I  propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power. 

You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with

a number of power to use to over power shields. The powers cooldown
time wouldbe equal to the time ammo powers take to cooldown so it won't
stop the action. And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a
much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and
your passives improve.



http://img42.imagesh...3powerwheel.png
:whistle:....(Thanks for listening...)










edit:Please ...make a comment. If you hate or like the way the class works, at lease add your own ideas as well.

Since ME2's biotic power have been explain, the biotic power loving ME community have been split into to
classed, one that dislikes the new style and wants the old one back and
one who are ok and even love to new style even more that the old.
One side states the the defencive powers they face as an Adept are so great that it's unplayable on the higher difficultes, the other side stating that it'sthe only way to balance the class based off how overpowered the class
was in ME1 and the others should learn how to use the powers better.

ME2 came and went, and no matter how much we complain or whine, it can't
be changed. But ME3 is coming up and has ample time to improve on...
With this well known extened dev time, many people feel it still time to presser BW to go back to the old ways that Biotic used to work.....Please, BW do not do this... But ofcouse biotics
in ME2 have their problems. Being that Adepts have the steepest
learning curve out of all the classes it the game, it's a clear sign
the class needs some adding on to improve it.

With ME2 the Adept class became trapster, depending on holding back enemies and using enemies to take out others. The heavily protected enemies ofcourse made this harder to do and frustrated many people who did not know how to deal with them. I purpose that we add on to this and give Adepts better traps to catch the much harder to catch Mouse.

1. Bring the ideas of Bastion and Nemisis to all powers.
In ME2, the passive powers at max were split in to two specialties,
Bastion and Nemesis. Bastions had longer lasting powers while Nemesis
got harder hitting powers. Though as great these specialization are,
for some of the powers this ment nothing to it. How did the bastion specialty effect Warp? And what did
it matter how long pull last to a Nemesis as long as they can hit the
target before the pull effect falls? On top of that most powers full effect could not be used untill the defences were gone. Now their are effects that happen if you use biotics on shielded enemies,for all of the powers it stunning the target and knocking them out of cover. As greatas this is tacticly, may people stillfelt that the ideal of the Adept was lost. What I suggest is that the powers the adept have have more effects on enemies with protection on.

-Warp could have the effect from ME1 and ME2. I would have a hard heavy damage at one attack and the target is laced with a warp field that harms them over time. Nemesis would depend on the heavy strik part of the power. Bastions will depend on the part of the power that effects the target after the strike.

-Pull could lace protected targets as well. You can place a mass effect field
on a protected  enemy and ether use him as a walking bomb like with
Domination or take of his protection while he's lace and trigger  pull
full effect. You can lace an enemy with an area pull wait till the
target is near enemies, take of the guys protection and a trigger the
area pull to pull the whole group.

-Stasis can get a crushing effect to it or a draining
effect to it. The crushing effect can damage target that are caught in
stasis. The drain effect makes the rage doll effect after the power is
done more damage. Also, cut the instant kill glich.
 
2. Charging Biotics.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc, we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I  propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power. 

You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with
a number of power to use to over power shields. The powers cooldown time wouldbe equal to the time ammo powers take to cooldown so it won't stop the action. And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and your passives improve.
To balance it, the power would have the same defect that the red sand in Samara's recruit
mission, the more energy you have the more it can effect your health. The more power you charge up the more your health drains over time. Full charges can take off any protection on enemies but leave you unprotected and low on health. It can also add more effects on powers like a fully charge adept can cast a singularity at the same level as a singularity gun.Effect like that that also drastically increases cooldown times and slows down health recovery .

Their would be 3 levels of this type of biotic boosting. Level 1 effect you
Shields only, but it only strengthens powers enough to take off all but
the last 4th of shields, more depending on the power. Level 2 takes of lower enemies
Shields, or armour depending on the power you use and effect some of
your health . Level 3 does the strongest damage to enemies and effect the majority of your health.

These are some way that the class can be improve, this would give players
ways to do more damage and go thought levels faster but with
more risk and rewards avalible to them and give players who like to use
tactics more more ways to use tactic. Thank you for your time and I
welcome and criticism on the ideas.

Modifié par dreman9999, 23 juillet 2011 - 07:33 .


#2
dreman9999

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No one has any comment to do to this...At all?

#3
Stardusk78

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dreman9999 wrote...

No one has any comment to do to this...At all?


Just watch Lord Bozorgmehr's videos and you will be fine.

#4
dreman9999

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Stardusk78 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No one has any comment to do to this...At all?


Just watch Lord Bozorgmehr's videos and you will be fine.

That's  about play and using adept class in ME2. My topic is about improving the class for ME 3......How would his videos even be relevent to the topic?

#5
dreman9999

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Please ...make a comment. If you hate or like the way the class works, at lease add your own ideas as well.

#6
Stardusk78

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dreman9999 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No one has any comment to do to this...At all?


Just watch Lord Bozorgmehr's videos and you will be fine.

That's  about play and using adept class in ME2. My topic is about improving the class for ME 3......How would his videos even be relevent to the topic?


Who says the Adept needs improvement?

#7
Whatever42

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dreman9999 wrote...

Please ...make a comment. If you hate or like the way the class works, at lease add your own ideas as well.


Your ideas are thoughtful and imaginative but I don't really like them.

Chargeups take time and slow down the pace of combat.  I'm ok with it as an option - choose more power or faster cooldown, for example - but charging up powers for any serious period of time I would never take. Maybe that's what you mind, although that's just a slight playstyle difference, although I'm all good with more playstyle differences.

The sticky factor, where you can infect a target with a power is fine and interesting from a pure gameplay point-of-view but I don't really see how it works lore-wise. Singularity takes down shields and can stagger/hold opponents, I think that is enough.

Statsis really doesn't really need any more enhancements - its already overpowered.

Personally, I think biotics can be tuned better but I am a fan of the ME2 implementation. More options are always good, of course.

#8
Thrombin

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I've played all the classes except Vanguard in ME1 and all the classes except Engineer in ME2. My favourite Shepard happens to be an Adept but I've enjoyed all the classes and didn't really feel that the Adept was under or overpowered.

I rather liked that you couldn't use most powers until you'd stripped the defenses off, particularly on the higher difficulty levels, as that meant for more tactical play. Using Miranda to overload shields, Mordin to burn the armour off and then step in with the biotics to finish them off. Or cast singularity first and strip their defenses second.

Some powers that work with defenses up are fine though. I'm sure with all the extra ability trees we're getting that they'll be plenty of good stuff for all the classes.

Regards

Julian

#9
Malanek

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I like the Adept class, it is my favourite. I think the single biggest problem with the gameplay is that Throw, Pull and Shockwave are all a little bit redundant when faced with Singularity. You definately don't want more than one plus Singularity on your character. So although choice is good, one of those three should be removed from the power list. Use further evolutions to give more and new varieties to powers.

Stasis is genuinely different so it should be moved into the main class but it is hideously broken. I think it would be a much more interesting power if enemies didn't fall over at the end and take insane amount of damage from being shot. Then the devs wouldn't have to worry about fall over animations and it would be easier to effect more things.

Consider moving barrier into the main power list, not sure if this is the sort of flavour you want though. I love Barrier as a bonus power on Adepts though.

Could look to enhance combos more. I'm not sure entirely how. Perhaps when you set off a combo you get an accelerated cooldown.

Protections are an important part of making the class fun and balanced. I do think on the higher levels it is just a touch overdone. Accross the board enemies should either have slightly more health and less protections or the Adept class in particular should have a passive ability that allows penetration of protections when they at a low level ie in ME2 the passive would also add

lvl 1 - Your biotic powers effect enemies when combined protections are at or below 40 as if they were not protected
lvl 2 - Your biotic powers effect enemies when combined protections are at or below 60 as if they were not protected
etc

I tend to favour enhancing the Adept rather than messing around with health/shield levels because it would differentiate the Adept from the other classes more.

Modifié par Malanek999, 13 juin 2011 - 10:45 .


#10
Gill Kaiser

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Stardusk78 wrote...

Who says the Adept needs improvement?

I do. Although it's passable, it's handicapped to a far greater extent by the protection stripping mechanic than any other class. The higher the difficulty setting, the less fun biotics become.

#11
Stardusk78

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Who says the Adept needs improvement?

I do. Although it's passable, it's handicapped to a far greater extent by the protection stripping mechanic than any other class. The higher the difficulty setting, the less fun biotics become.


This has been disproven many times.

#12
Gill Kaiser

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You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.

#13
Malanek

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Stardusk78 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Who says the Adept needs improvement?

I do. Although it's passable, it's handicapped to a far greater extent by the protection stripping mechanic than any other class. The higher the difficulty setting, the less fun biotics become.


This has been disproven many times.

I cringe at the way you use the word disproven. Proof is much too powerful of a concept to be used flippantly. However I do tend to side with the people who argue that protections make the game more fun and challenging with the Adept still being extremely powerful. I just think it needs a very slight rebalancing.

#14
Dannyboy9876

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Adept is BEAST.

Although, I do agree. It was far more powerful in ME1 (seriously, you were walking Matriarchs!) but I think it was perfect in ME2.

#15
Malanek

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.

Not everyone can catered for explicity of course. If the majority enjoyed the experience they should go with that. It is the highest level you are talking about here and biotics are still extremely effective. Just not as completely broken and uninteresting as they were in ME1 which sucked the fun out of the the entire game for me.

#16
Dannyboy9876

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Malanek999 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.

Not everyone can catered for explicity of course. If the majority enjoyed the experience they should go with that. It is the highest level you are talking about here and biotics are still extremely effective. Just not as completely broken and uninteresting as they were in ME1 which sucked the fun out of the the entire game for me.



You didn't like ME1 biotics? 0_o

Adept was like playing god, even Niftu Cal couldn't stop you.

#17
Malanek

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Dannyboy9876 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.

Not everyone can catered for explicity of course. If the majority enjoyed the experience they should go with that. It is the highest level you are talking about here and biotics are still extremely effective. Just not as completely broken and uninteresting as they were in ME1 which sucked the fun out of the the entire game for me.


You didn't like ME1 biotics? 0_o

Adept was like playing god, even Niftu Cal couldn't stop you.

Exactly. If you want to be like that play on casual where they will still behave the way you want them to.

#18
mcsupersport

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A couple of changes that would improve the class....
1)  Faster blue balls of Awesome...(looks to be done already)...Singularity in particular is toooo slow for use a anything past mid-range in most cases.
2)  Larger area of effect and holding duration of Singularity.  It is just too small and doesn't hold well until you get heavy version.
3)  Stasis being a normal power instead of bonus.
4)  Barrier being a normal power instead of bonus and lower cooldown(maybe 9 second base).
5)  Throw and most particular Shockwave doing more damage to protected enemies.  They already do some but unless you use Heavy Throw you don't really notice, and for the cooldown Shockwave underwhelms.  

This would wake up the class, and allow more options.  If you made the adept work through protections then you would have to have enemies be protected from being thrown off the board for autokills.  Look at the demo of the Salarian mission and think if you were an adept it would take a pull then throw all of around 3 seconds to punt them off screen to die, if you are using the wide version of each then you could do groups without pause.

#19
nitrog100

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The changes they're making seem to be on the right track. Biotic powers are going to be more powerful, and Pull can be used to pull away the riot shield thingy.

#20
Stardusk78

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.


That just means you are not good with the Adept, has nothing to do with the class itself.

#21
Aurellia

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I'd find the charge up idea interesting but I'd rather not have to activate it explicitly. What I'd rather see instead is a biotics bar that builds up to some cap over a short time and then you can fire off powers with some very minimal cool-down like 1/2-1s until you exhaust the bar. By tuning this it would give you some of the flexibility of ME1 but at the same time giving you a hard limit on firing subsequent powers. Ie you could open up with a ME1 style barrage but then be limited to firing one thing off at a time unless you do something else for a bit like shooting and moving and then firing off another combo.

I'd also like to see the defense system revised such to something like the following
- barrier = no effect
- shielded = chance of resistance based on amount of shield
- armored = damage reduction or distance pulled reduced based on amount of armor

The idea is to turn shielding and armor to soft limits rather than hard limits

Modifié par Aurellia, 13 juin 2011 - 11:57 .


#22
Dannyboy9876

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Malanek999 wrote...

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

You can't disprove an experience that I have had. No matter how many examples you cite of Adepts being played to perfection on Insanity, for me the biotic-immunity of protections sucked the fun out of the class.

Not everyone can catered for explicity of course. If the majority enjoyed the experience they should go with that. It is the highest level you are talking about here and biotics are still extremely effective. Just not as completely broken and uninteresting as they were in ME1 which sucked the fun out of the the entire game for me.


You didn't like ME1 biotics? 0_o

Adept was like playing god, even Niftu Cal couldn't stop you.

Exactly. If you want to be like that play on casual where they will still behave the way you want them to.


But play it on Insanity.

Immunity everywhere.

#23
dreman9999

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Please ...make a comment. If you hate or like the way the class works, at lease add your own ideas as well.


Your ideas are thoughtful and imaginative but I don't really like them.

Chargeups take time and slow down the pace of combat.  I'm ok with it as an option - choose more power or faster cooldown, for example - but charging up powers for any serious period of time I would never take. Maybe that's what you mind, although that's just a slight playstyle difference, although I'm all good with more playstyle differences.

The sticky factor, where you can infect a target with a power is fine and interesting from a pure gameplay point-of-view but I don't really see how it works lore-wise. Singularity takes down shields and can stagger/hold opponents, I think that is enough.

Statsis really doesn't really need any more enhancements - its already overpowered.

Personally, I think biotics can be tuned better but I am a fan of the ME2 implementation. More options are always good, of course.

The ideas is that the power has as long a cooldown as ammo powers, So can do it many times  and don't get in the way of your power use.Charge/ boost once and half a sec later your using your powers. The idea is that the boost last for a while, like how barrier last after using but the fuel you use to power it is your protection and health.

As for the stick /lace factor that I sugested, it would work like how warp use to work like in ME1.

#24
dreman9999

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Malanek999 wrote...

I like the Adept class, it is my favourite. I think the single biggest problem with the gameplay is that Throw, Pull and Shockwave are all a little bit redundant when faced with Singularity. You definately don't want more than one plus Singularity on your character. So although choice is good, one of those three should be removed from the power list. Use further evolutions to give more and new varieties to powers.

Stasis is genuinely different so it should be moved into the main class but it is hideously broken. I think it would be a much more interesting power if enemies didn't fall over at the end and take insane amount of damage from being shot. Then the devs wouldn't have to worry about fall over animations and it would be easier to effect more things.

Consider moving barrier into the main power list, not sure if this is the sort of flavour you want though. I love Barrier as a bonus power on Adepts though.

Could look to enhance combos more. I'm not sure entirely how. Perhaps when you set off a combo you get an accelerated cooldown.

Protections are an important part of making the class fun and balanced. I do think on the higher levels it is just a touch overdone. Accross the board enemies should either have slightly more health and less protections or the Adept class in particular should have a passive ability that allows penetration of protections when they at a low level ie in ME2 the passive would also add

lvl 1 - Your biotic powers effect enemies when combined protections are at or below 40 as if they were not protected
lvl 2 - Your biotic powers effect enemies when combined protections are at or below 60 as if they were not protected
etc

I tend to favour enhancing the Adept rather than messing around with health/shield levels because it would differentiate the Adept from the other classes more.

I feel that Adept just need more option in overwelming shield then percing.

#25
dreman9999

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Who says the Adept needs improvement?

I do. Although it's passable, it's handicapped to a far greater extent by the protection stripping mechanic than any other class. The higher the difficulty setting, the less fun biotics become.

Which is way I made the sugetion of a class improvement. Yes, I see the class can work well on insanity. As an adept player I have blown my way though insanity. I full understand haw to use the class in any moment at any time but I can't ingnore the fact that it took a lot of trail and error to learn the class and it can be fustration. My sugestion is just one of giving more people more ways to play the class with out having to beat their head ageinst the wall to learn the class and without a "Pirce protection more" power. If they want to brake though protection with biotics, let them....Just let their be a cost to do so to balance it. And let it not revolve around one power.