15439 réponses à ce sujet

[Cosmochyck]

If Thane dying isn't a choice, I will definitely be upset. I shed a few tears when I thought Master Chief had "expired". And Thane's letter brought a tear to the eye.
I will then continue on a path similar to In_Flux - swear, slam down my controller, and perhaps rage on the entire galaxy!
I will then compose myself, and try to figure out how to keep my hottie drell LI alive!!

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

SPOILERS!!!!!

The end of Halo Reach is a very emotional death. Just fighting hordes of enemies alone, then becoming overcome after insurmountable odds, then taking off his/her helmet...

If there was a death option for Thane, then something like that could be done beautifully...

But if there was a way of keeping him alive, then I would prefer that option

[Asenza]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

SPOILERS!!!!!

The end of Halo Reach is a very emotional death. Just fighting hordes of enemies alone, then becoming overcome after insurmountable odds, then taking off his/her helmet...

If there was a death option for Thane, then something like that could be done beautifully...

But if there was a way of keeping him alive, then I would prefer that option

Haven't we gone over this already though?

Bioware can handle deaths when they happen, but the aftermath, Shepard shrugging and moving on, little mention from other characters, little impact on the rest of the story.... the aftermath is just as important as the death and if they can't handle that right then they shouldn't be killing people at all.

[Cosmochyck]

Asenza wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

SPOILERS!!!!!

The end of Halo Reach is a very emotional death. Just fighting hordes of enemies alone, then becoming overcome after insurmountable odds, then taking off his/her helmet...

If there was a death option for Thane, then something like that could be done beautifully...

But if there was a way of keeping him alive, then I would prefer that option

Haven't we gone over this already though?

Bioware can handle deaths when they happen, but the aftermath, Shepard shrugging and moving on, little mention from other characters, little impact on the rest of the story.... the aftermath is just as important as the death and if they can't handle that right then they shouldn't be killing people at all.

Totally agree
And I missed ToP Thane goodness!
Courtesy of twoleftthumbs

[Lucky Thirteen]

oops..

ah he's fine.

Skittles!

[mythlover20]

Asenza wrote...


Bioware can handle deaths when they happen, but the aftermath, Shepard shrugging and moving on, little mention from other characters, little impact on the rest of the story.... the aftermath is just as important as the death and if they can't handle that right then they shouldn't be killing people at all.

Exactly what i was thinking, now that I've had some sleep. Shepard's reaction to the death of her IL definitely has to be handled carefully, but there needs to be a lot of strong emotional reaction to it. I not too sure I should speculate on it so I guess we'll see when we see.

[wildannie]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

If it is scripted into the game, I will be sad and I will get over it and play the game a million times more. If there is a choice, I'll figure out how to go back and keep him alive. I wish for him to have a cure or life prolonging option, but I fear it will weaken the story if it comes down to a choice.

I just think I wish there were more moments for Shepard to not have control on every, tiny, god damn thing.It's great to have choices, but sometimes the antagonist throws things at heroes that are unexpected and uncontrollable. It's the realistic side of me talking here.

I will do this too, but not with all my imports, I'll just set up saves where he already died (theres going to be a comic thingy isn't there?) I certainly wouldn't want to revisit a tragic end on every playthrough.

[Enmystic]

Thane's death would make me feel a few things angry, sad, but overall I'll be upset for a number of reasons.  It all comes down to what actually is going to happen in ME3.  I really, REALLY, want to do something to at least extend Thane's life.  I think it would make for an excellent story and maintain emotional pull, and making it optional wouldn't change that in my opinion.  However, it all comes down to BioWare's disgression. 

To contribute to the discussion at hand though, I want the relationship to have felt like it meant something.  Not just to me, but to Shepard and Thane as well.  I don't want to sit there and feel like BioWare punished me for not romancing Kaidan, Garrus or Liara.  Now that I'll rage about.  I want to feel like even though Thane's life ended there was something gained that no other romance option (or the option of keeping him alive) could provide.  At the same time Thane gained something that he otherwise would have if he had let himself die in ME2.  Not only that I want it to be something that leaves a lasting impression.  I want the emotions and the meaning behind Thane's death to continue resonating within the game, and with the players, romance or not, even after the game has ended.  A one scene deal just won't cut it.  I would want this even if Thane's death was optional. 

I don't want to be forced to see Thane die though. Not because Thane is my favorite character in Mass Effect, but because Thane is my favorite video game character EVER.  Seriously, out of all the games I've played I have never liked a game character nearly as much as I liked Thane.  I will be upset if I can't save him. 

[JECWSU]

Asenza wrote...

Bioware can handle deaths when they happen, but the aftermath, Shepard shrugging and moving on, little mention from other characters, little impact on the rest of the story.... the aftermath is just as important as the death and if they can't handle that right then they shouldn't be killing people at all.

This is exactly how I feel. If Shepard just goes on and acts like Thane didn't mean anything to her. If she just acts like he wasn't even there then that will upset me more than anything. I'm not saying she has to cry ever second, but I would expect something form her.

[Lucky Thirteen]

A little private scene in the captains quarters, looking sadly at a picture of Thane maybe?

[Cosmochyck]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

A little private scene in the captains quarters, looking sadly at a picture of Thane maybe?

I was super excited to see that first part and thinking - hell ya, some private sexy time!  Then I read the rest.  

[Lucky Thirteen]

Well, sexy time before he dies.

Shepard meeting Thane on Invictus: Get on the ship! Now! Sexy time now! Save hanar scientist later!

[Asenza]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

A little private scene in the captains quarters, looking sadly at a picture of Thane maybe?

Nah, that's the easy way out. Because it would only be one scene, less than a minute long. And guess what would happen after that?

It wouldn't happen again, for starters. Not that it needs to happen a zillion times, but just a small tiny scene, then Shepard would go back to business as usual. And that strikes as "Duty done, begone! Screw emotion and depth, lets get back to explosions and killing things!

Given Bioware's previous death followup, it isn't difficult to assume what would happen:

- No one would ask Shepard how she felt about it.
- Even if they did, after the immediate aftermath, Thane's name would never be mentioned again.
- People wouldn't casually refer to him in conversation, or talk about something he said or did.

It's the followthrough. Thane (and any other character for that matter) could have the most glorious death scene in all creation, but if the other characters forget he ever existed right afterwards, if the characters who cared about him or knew him don't react (and have to continue coping with the loss) yes, even in the middle of the Reaper invasion, then the death is sensationalism, nothing else, and almost completely asinine.

It's emotional manipulation of the very lowest form. Bioware SHOULD want to do better, SHOULD be above that.

They really need to remember Shepard is supposed to be someone with feelings and emotions. There is only so long that someone can put on a brave face and fight the pain before the facade cracks. But Shepard just shook their head and walked away after Arrival, so I've little hope in this area...

Modifié par Asenza, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:11 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

To a certain extent I agree. I just worry that it may start pressing on head canon toes and I worry it will happen too much.

I did like how with Liara there were various choices to have Shepard reflect on everything, be either idealistically brave, pissed off, or just worried. My beef was I don't see my main Shepard, Rylie, being personal with Liara like that. With my other Shepard, who is romancing Liara, it was very easy. So if they do include something more like that, I hope it's with some characters I can see it happening with dependent on the Shepard.

And I don't want it happening so much that it just becomes so focused on his death. Didn't they have any happy times at all during their short time together, or has she forgotten that already? What I liked about the ending of Arrival, I can picture in my head what my Shepard, Rylie would do after talking to Hacket. Go up to her room and puke. Stress about it in private and then try to figure out what to do next, because obviously she's going to prison.

I'm thinking if Thane does die, Rylie will have her emotional breakdown after she's done taking care of business. It won't be easy, but yeah. That's a soldier's life. Few people can handle it. Plus, Shepard knows Thane will die(cause yeah, she can't know there is a cure), so mentally she should be prepared for it to happen. It doesn't mean she won't feel anything when it does happen, it just means she's not going to have a total emotional breakdown as if his life was taken unexpectedly.

Billions of people are going to be dying in Me3. It is a war and the galaxy is pretty much resting on Shepard's shoulders. Shepard just can't dwell too much on the closer people that die when billions more are relying on her to save them. Even if it's someone she loves dearly like Thane.

[mythlover20]

Asenza wrote...


It's the followthrough. Thane (and any other character for that matter) could have the most glorious death scene in all creation, but if the other characters forget he ever existed right afterwards, if the characters who cared about him or knew him don't react (and have to continue coping with the loss) yes, even in the middle of the Reaper invasion, then the death is sensationalism, nothing else, and almost completely asinine.

It's emotional manipulation of the very lowest form. Bioware SHOULD want to do better, SHOULD be above that.

They really need to remember Shepard is supposed to be someone with feelings and emotions. There is only so long that someone can put on a brave face and fight the pain before the facade cracks. But Shepard just shook their head and walked away after Arrival, so I've little hope in this area...

@jJECWSU and Tasha, thanks for the welcome. Sorry I didn't thank you sooner. And please, just call me Myth

and @Asenza: thank you also. You stated this point far more eloquently than I am currently able.

This is what is concerning me most, not only with Thanes storyline, but with the other IL's as well. We've all heard the "there will be consequences for 'cheating'" bit, but in too many games this falls through. I know programming all this has got to be hell, and as a writer I can definitely vouch for how hard it can be sometimes to effectively account for all alligences, etc, and logically i know that with a videogame not all reactions and responses that would be appropriate for a character would be accounted for, especially for one like this with such a large dialogue tree already in place. Something has got to give, or they would never get the game out at all!

I would definitely like Thane's storyline to conclude with suitable reactions from the other characters. But considering everything else going on, I am not going to be surprised if something like the coronation of Anora from Origins occurs. That is, where Alistair takes the throne, then kills the archdemon and dies. I think only Wynne mentioned Alistair at the coronation, and then only with what felt like forced remorse, and everyone else was extremely blasse about the companion that had supposedly been their friend dying to save the world, not even acknowledging he existed at all. As much as I absolutely <3 DA:O, as in 9 playthroughs thus far, I really am that pathetic, that ending always fell far short for me, especially on those rare occasions that Alistair was my IL. I would not at all be surprised if that happens. Especially not after reading the posts regarding the Arrival DLC (which I havent' been able to play yet:unsure:)

Though remembering now all my DA:O, DA2, and now ME2 playthroughs, I have noticed a trend: I always romance the ASSASSINS first!   First it was Zevran (<3), then Fenris, and now Thane. Is there something wrong with me, or are they just the best written characters of the lot? Personally I've always felt the good guys were a little too... bland, for my tastes.

Apologies for the length. And the rambling.

And to 51SA: for the ass-grabbing photo: Thank you!

Edit: yes I know Fenris wasn't an assassin, but he was as close as you got with your companions in DA2.

Modifié par mythlover20, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

I actually love Thane for the fact he presents himself as a bad boy, but he's really not. He's really a good guy at heart. Bad ass yes, bad boy no. Bad boys in my head compute to someone that can potentially be dangerous for the people they love. Thus the reason they always seem to say something to the effect of, You shouldn't be with me because I don't want to hurt you cause I'm that bad. Or they go as far as nearly smacking/hurting the girl in a little fit of rage. That's the thrill of the bad boy. Thane doesn't seem to be a threat to Shepard at all. I actually find myself getting upset whenever someone writes him out in some bad boy way, doing something cruel that would put him more in the bad boy category. I just try to bite my tongue with it these days.

But I have connected the fact that Atton Rand, one of my all time favorite characters, is an assassin as well. Ex-assassin technically, but he hasn't lost his skill. DS Atton would fall under the bad boy category. LS Atton is just a dork.

[mythlover20]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

I actually love Thane for the fact he presents himself as a bad boy, but he's really not. He's really a good guy at heart. Bad ass yes, bad boy no. Bad boys in my head compute to someone that can potentially be dangerous for the people they love. Thus the reason they always seem to say something to the effect of, You shouldn't be with me because I don't want to hurt you cause I'm that bad. Or they go as far as nearly smacking/hurting the girl in a little fit of rage. That's the thrill of the bad boy. Thane doesn't seem to be a threat to Shepard at all. I actually find myself getting upset whenever someone writes him out in some bad boy way, doing something cruel that would put him more in the bad boy category. I just try to bite my tongue with it these days.

But I have connected the fact that Atton Rand, one of my all time favorite characters, is an assassin as well. Ex-assassin technically, but he hasn't lost his skill. DS Atton would fall under the bad boy category. LS Atton is just a dork.

I just noticed that also seems to be a trend. All the bad boy romances, possibly with the exception of Fenris, they are really all good guys at heart, just with a regretful job. 

You're right, LT (that appreviation ok?). Thane really is a good guy. I honestly love the juxtaposition of his job and his nature and philosophical and spiritual inclinations. It's what makes him such an appealling character. The obvious good guys, like say, Alistair from DA:O, are just that, obvious. There's no mystery to them. At least not for me. I felt the same with Jacob, and Garrus to an extent, which is probably why my Sheps usually left him in the end. I rather enjoyed getting to know the character, and was actually rather surprised by some of his dialogue responses. More thought seems to go into their backstories and character arc. Again, Alistair. I didn't feel he had any at all. Again, Jacob, I didn't feel it with him either, but then I haven't pursued a relationship with him yet. Garrus.. well, better than Jacob, but I definitely felt cheated by the post-romance dialogue options. <_<

Again, your right. I did get the whole bad ass/bad boy thing mixed. I'm sorry.

Also I know I'm referencing DA on a ME forum a lot, but I've played it more. I've only done one and a half ME2 playthroughs so far, and don't quite know the characters as well just yet.

[wildannie]

 @myth  What's pathetic about 9 playthroughs of DAO? 

I'm right with you on your character preferences. I played ME 1&2 before DAO (bought DAO to get me to stop playing ME2 constantly and that was very much an out of the frying pan into the fire situation:lol:)  Thane was the reason I chose to romance Zevran first and I now like both Zevran and Thane equally... I'm also firmly in the Fenris camp for DA2.

When I first played ME2 I had no intention of romaning any character other than Kaidan and was very surprised when Thane's character won me over... My original Shepard stayed Loyal to K but the rest are all with Thane or single.... why?

Jacob - don't like him much he's a bit boring and a bit of a dick.

Garrus - I love the character but what with him having dextro DNA and seeming to be totally alien physically, I just can't buy into any kind of romance.

I only play Femshep.

re: Thane, Zevran and Fenris...I don't know if they're better written but I personally find these characters much more interesting.  However, I've heard many say how well written Alistair is which always surprises me as I find him to be quite insipid-_-.

different strokes I guess 

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Another Atton fan! Yaaayy! What is it with Bioware and lovably snarky pilots eh?

I was also more of a Zev girl. But the DA:O characters (although I liked them) didn't stick out as much as the Mass Effect characters for me. Strange really, with computer games I prefer sci-fi. But with books I prefer fantasy fiction...

Assassins are good. Most of the time, they provide that ethical ambiguity, and the mysterious artistry that is so... intriguing to me. Alistair is actually really well written, he has some hilarious lines when you aren't going for the typical 'nicey nice' options.

As for multiple playthroughs on games? I have completed over 20 playthroughs on the Baldurs Gate series, so don't worry about that Myth!

So in conclusion, Bioware write their assassins damn well! It seems that there is a correlation between the fanbases of different games. For example, I like Thane, Fenris, Zevran, Atton and Kivan.

[Cosmochyck]

wildannie wrote...

 @myth  What's pathetic about 9 playthroughs of DAO? 

I'm right with you on your character preferences. I played ME 1&2 before DAO (bought DAO to get me to stop playing ME2 constantly and that was very much an out of the frying pan into the fire situation:lol:)  Thane was the reason I chose to romance Zevran first and I now like both Zevran and Thane equally... I'm also firmly in the Fenris camp for DA2.

When I first played ME2 I had no intention of romaning any character other than Kaidan and was very surprised when Thane's character won me over... My original Shepard stayed Loyal to K but the rest are all with Thane or single.... why?

Jacob - don't like him much he's a bit boring and a bit of a dick.

Garrus - I love the character but what with him having dextro DNA and seeming to be totally alien physically, I just can't buy into any kind of romance.

I only play Femshep.

re: Thane, Zevran and Fenris...I don't know if they're better written but I personally find these characters much more interesting.  However, I've heard many say how well written Alistair is which always surprises me as I find him to be quite insipid-_-.

different strokes I guess 

Multiple PTs are what make these games so awesome!  Every time I finish I think of another class to play, or a conversation I want to go differently...
I played DA:O 9 times on Xbox and then downloaded it to PC for some mods.  I"m on PT #2.  Now surprisingly I'm not in the Zev camp, but it's because Alistair sucked me in with his voice.  And I do like his "witty one-liners". 
DA2 (which I know not everyone loved) I have 8 PT - and I romance Fenris EVERY TIME.  That sexy, broody elf gets me every time...it's his voice - the voice actors get me every time!.  And his fantastic lines when you're aggressive with him.

As for Thane, I found him to be the richest new character - I'm a Garrus fan, but only as friends for my Shep, which I think she really needs on this mission. 

I'm with wildannie above - Jacob was just too cocky and sort of irritating. 

And Thane is just - well, Thane.  He's well written, interesting and seems to genuinely care about Shep (or at least that how it goes in my head), so of course she's drawn to him.  Sexy assassin.

[JECWSU]

I knew I was going to do Thane's romance when I first saw him. Not in the game, but from those trailers he did. I just liked what I saw. When I first played ME1 I was perfectly fine with romancing Kaidan, and I still have one loyal playthrough for him. I did wish they had given femShep more options though. When I saw that we had three in ME2 Thane was the only one I noticed. Jacob is fine, and I might do his romance someday, but he just didn't grab me. I had no intention on doing the romance with Garrus, but I changed my mind later on.
After I my Shepard spoke to him there really was no going back for me. He is absolutely one of the most interesting characters that I've come across. I certainly have never become attached to a video game character, but with Thane it was different. He's kind, and sweet. He's a romantic. He's also well-read. I love the way he carries himself. I love the voice, and the way he speaks. He's sexy without even trying to be. Bioware really did a good job with his character.

I know that the person that wrote for him in ME2 is gone, and I can only hope that the new writer does just as good of a job.

Modifié par JECWSU, 01 novembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

As much as I love Thane, I do enjoy quite a few of the other LI's and their romance pathways in ME2 as well. More specifically, Garrus, Tali and Jack. (I do seem to be a sucker for the aliens.)

But even though I will have playthroughs for each of these (and another who is waiting for Joker hopefull!) Thane still has my favourite romance arc. A new facet is opened up within his character when you chat with him and hold hands across the table.

I can understand that this is a reason why people who don't romance can't appreciate his character as much. But there are some who still like him as a 'bro' and not just an LI.

[wildannie]

Cosmochyck wrote...

Multiple PTs are what make these games so awesome!  Every time I finish I think of another class to play, or a conversation I want to go differently...
I played DA:O 9 times on Xbox and then downloaded it to PC for some mods.  I"m on PT #2.  Now surprisingly I'm not in the Zev camp, but it's because Alistair sucked me in with his voice.  And I do like his "witty one-liners". 
DA2 (which I know not everyone loved) I have 8 PT - and I romance Fenris EVERY TIME.  That sexy, broody elf gets me every time...it's his voice - the voice actors get me every time!.  And his fantastic lines when you're aggressive with him.

As for Thane, I found him to be the richest new character - I'm a Garrus fan, but only as friends for my Shep, which I think she really needs on this mission. 

I'm with wildannie above - Jacob was just too cocky and sort of irritating. 

And Thane is just - well, Thane.  He's well written, interesting and seems to genuinely care about Shep (or at least that how it goes in my head), so of course she's drawn to him.  Sexy assassin.

same here, although I had to buy a new PC to do it!! DAO is definitely the most expensive game I've ever played 

Although I like Zevran and Thane the same, Thane's voice is by far my favourite.  Re: Alistair I would be very interested to hear what Steve Valentine sounds like IRL, he's originally from near where I stay in Scotland and there's not a hint of it in his voice, I think it's the generic english accent he's using that puts me off.

edit: @Tasha
 
I really wish I could bring myself to play Manshep but I've always found his voice to be a bit annoying... If I could bring myself to play beyond Omega I'd be going with Jack.

Modifié par wildannie, 01 novembre 2011 - 05:47 .