15439 réponses à ce sujet

[utaker1988]

JECWSU wrote...

He is definatly worth keeping alive. Sadly some people really don't understand him and they don't want to.
They are really missing out, because he's a great chracter if you give him a chance.

No they don't which is sad and he is a great character.  I remember a few months ago, I fired up the game and my 9 year old was sick so she laid in the bed with me while I played.  At this point she had only seen parts and pieces throughout my many playthroughs before that but I was recruiting him and when Thane said, "I'm dying", I remember my daughter's reaction clearly.  "Mommy, why is he dying?  Why do they have to make him die?  What about his boy, what about Commander Shepard?  Can you save him?  They shouldn't kill him he has many things left to do."  I told her that is how they he was written and I don't know if he'll die in the last one or not.  Her response, "Tell the people who make this game, they are stupid."  When a 9 year old can see that he still has a good story ahead of him, it boggles my mind why people think that his character is only about him dying.

[mythlover20]

utaker1988 wrote...

JECWSU wrote...

He is definatly worth keeping alive. Sadly some people really don't understand him and they don't want to.
They are really missing out, because he's a great chracter if you give him a chance.

No they don't which is sad and he is a great character.  I remember a few months ago, I fired up the game and my 9 year old was sick so she laid in the bed with me while I played.  At this point she had only seen parts and pieces throughout my many playthroughs before that but I was recruiting him and when Thane said, "I'm dying", I remember my daughter's reaction clearly.  "Mommy, why is he dying?  Why do they have to make him die?  What about his boy, what about Commander Shepard?  Can you save him?  They shouldn't kill him he has many things left to do."  I told her that is how they he was written and I don't know if he'll die in the last one or not.  Her response, "Tell the people who make this game, they are stupid."  When a 9 year old can see that he still has a good story ahead of him, it boggles my mind why people think that his character is only about him dying.

"From the mouths of babes..."

I completely agree with you and your daughter. There are so many possible character arcs for Thane that killing him off would be, well.... stupid.

I've never understood why some people don't like Thane. Maybe it's just because he's a green lizard thing, because the way he is written and the way so many storylines are left open easily makea him my favourite.

(I promise I'll post a more eloquent reply in the morning. Wednesday night dance sleep deprivation has kicked in now that I've finally gotten home).

[Cosmochyck]

Oh so much to catch up on!

For those playing Skyrim, I too get a little heart flutter when I get called "Thane".  It makes me want to load ME2 and get playing!

I think Kolyat would be reluctant at first with his father's relationship with Shepard, but as most have said, I think he'd come around.  Especially if he saw how much they both cared for each other.  Yes my Shep has shot him and elbowed him but I think he could overlook that if C-Sec is working out and he's happy that he's found a place for himself. 

I also agree that most don't give Thane a chance - I think because Garrus was back and so many people loved him.  I like him a lot, but not as a love interest for my Shep, and I find Thane's insightful lines more of a balance to most of the other squadmates comments. 

Here's more Thane! 
by Maguaii

[IndigoWolfe]

mythlover20 wrote...

I completely agree with you and your daughter. There are so many possible character arcs for Thane that killing him off would be, well.... stupid.

I've never understood why some people don't like Thane. Maybe it's just because he's a green lizard thing, because the way he is written and the way so many storylines are left open easily makea him my favourite.

Okay, I'll bite. I've been mulling this over for some time now.

To put it simply; I think Thane should die, and I think this because I like his character.

Thane is a unique character in that he is driven by mortality. From the first time you met him, to his Loyalty Mission, he really brings to mind the brevity of human existence, and the irreprihensible desire to do something meaningful and good with the time one does have. Furthermore, he is at peace with his own fate and maintains air of nobility about himself in spite of his ever-approaching demise, or perhaps even because of that.

This is territory that video games as a medium oh-so rarely tread. And I don't know of a single one that has tread it so well as Thane's character in ME2 did. I think, for games as a medium to continue to grow and be recognized as an art form, personal stories like these should be embraced, moreover; they should be adhered to once they are begun.

And if Thane is romanced, quite frankly, Shepard really should have known what she was getting into. Heck; the player theirself should have known what they got into. I believe in Lair Of The Shadow Broker, Liara and Shepard summed up the romance quite well:

"The Keprals Syndrome isn't bad yet, but I don't know how much time we have left."
"You're going through what every asari does with a shorter-lived spouse. It's not about how much time you have; it's what you do with it."

Now that I believe, encompasses the entirety of what the Thane romance, even Thane as a character, represents. Regardless of what Thane might or might not do in the event he is cured, this is who he is. To the people who post in this thread, for all intents and purposes; Thane is a man who lives in spite of the inevitability of death.

These are the sort of things great stories are made of, it's what they're remembered for. A fairy tale ending where he is cured and he and Shepard ride a magic carpet into a desert sunset is a nice ending no doubt, but frankly, I don't think it's memorable.

For example, take Gears Of War 2; a main character's driving motivation is finding his wife, and it's something that had persisted through both games. Here's the scene where he finally finds her.

This story arch was about as deep as the Gears story got, at that point. And up to that point, while I most certainly had tons of fun with the games, I didn't really care that much, if you get my meaning. During the first few seconds of that scene, I was just sitting back going "Okay, here's the heartfelt reunion scene and the next mission is going to be getting her out", but when Dom discovered his wife was a mindless, lobotomized, damaged beyond repair husk of the woman he loved, it really hit me unexpectedly. It was at that moment where I started caring about what was going on.

Now, I already care about Thane's character, but if his disease, the subject around which the entire driving motivations of his character are based, simply goes away, I believe his character's story will be the poorer for it. Lastly, it would be removing any sort of personal consequence Shepard opened herself to when she got involved with Thane.

And quite frankly; that's what it looks like is going to happen.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 23 novembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[wildannie]

 @Indigowolfe

I respect your opinion but there are some points that I completely disagree with.  

Thane is not at peace with his own fate if his Romance scene is anything to go by, also it is clear in his shadowbroker letter that his attidude to his life has changed.

'I once accepted my fate...  ...The expectation to move swiftly to my end vanished upon uniting with your cause...'  

He clearly expects to die but he is not really at peace with it.

I'm all for personal stories in video games but in a game where choice is key I believe that unavoidable character deaths of any of the LIs would be a mistake.
I've seen that scene in Gears of War 2, and I approved, but it's a completely different kind of game where the player has no agency on the story so I don't think it's relevant to use this as an example.

On your final point... should Shepard be punished for falling for a dying man?  what kind of message is that?  We are all going to have to face real loss in our real lives, some of us don't enjoy that level of angst in our games.

I advocate that there be different outcomes for Thane, one of which is a cure.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Reading Indigo's post, I cannot help but perceive it as all the more proof of my observation that people greatly confuse non-romanced Thane with romanced Thane and tend to see them as the same one character--which is understandable considering there is no way one would know the romanced phase of his character without actually following it.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

IndigoWolfe wrote...
To put it simply; I think Thane should die, and I think this because I like his character.

Thane is a unique character in that he is driven by mortality. From the first time you met him, to his Loyalty Mission, he really brings to mind the brevity of human existence, and the irreprihensible desire to do something meaningful and good with the time one does have. Furthermore, he is at peace with his own fate and maintains air of nobility about himself in spite of his ever-approaching demise, or perhaps even because of that.

This is territory that video games as a medium oh-so rarely tread. And I don't know of a single one that has tread it so well as Thane's character in ME2 did. I think, for games as a medium to continue to grow and be recognized as an art form, personal stories like these should be embraced, moreover; they should be adhered to once they are begun.

And if Thane is romanced, quite frankly, Shepard really should have known what she was getting into. Heck; the player theirself should have known what they got into. I believe in Lair Of The Shadow Broker, Liara and Shepard summed up the romance quite well:

"The Keprals Syndrome isn't bad yet, but I don't know how much time we have left."
"You're going through what every asari does with a shorter-lived spouse. It's not about how much time you have; it's what you do with it."

Now that I believe, encompasses the entirety of what the Thane romance, even Thane as a character, represents. Regardless of what Thane might or might not do in the event he is cured, this is who he is. To the people who post in this thread, for all intents and purposes; Thane is a man who lives in spite of the inevitability of death.

These are the sort of things great stories are made of, it's what they're remembered for. A fairy tale ending where he is cured and he and Shepard ride a magic carpet into a desert sunset is a nice ending no doubt, but frankly, I don't think it's memorable.

Now, I already care about Thane's character, but if his disease, the subject around which the entire driving motivations of his character are based, simply goes away, I believe his character's story will be the poorer for it. Lastly, it would be removing any sort of personal consequence Shepard opened herself to when she got involved with Thane.

And quite frankly; that's what it looks like is going to happen.

I think it would be appropriate for there to be an option of Thane dying. After all, if he is unromanced, then he claims to be at peace with his death, but there still is the issue of Kolyat. He will have nobody, and will likely turn to a life of crime, and become a hitman as a way of becoming closer to his father.

But, if well done, it could be a very emotional death. And as you mentioned with Liara's comment, 'It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.' I would have one Shepard who romanced Thane, where I plan for him to pass away. Not because I am mean, but because I wish to see the effect it would have, and explore Thane's character from a different perspective.

However, I think it would be best if his death was the result of a choice. Shepard did know what she was getting into, and she did it to give Thane a life that he deserves. A siha whom he can be with, and to enjoy those last few months before he dies. Shepard did it to offer hope, that wasn't her only reason, but it is the reason that, despite his mortality, she stuck by him.

As for the bolded part. Thane's motivations aren't driven by his terminal illness. It is not what defines his character. He is religious, introvert, calm, collected, intelligent and even compassionate, despite being trained to murder others since being but a child. He has a very vibrant personality, and if anything has defined his motivations, I think it is his career as an assassin. That is what lead to him finding Irikah, it is what lead to her being killed, and what lead to the rift between him and Kolyat.

Until the Collector mission, being an assassin is what drove his purpose for every waking hour. Just because we meet him after he has been diagnosed with Keprel's syndrome, and a lot of people can't see much further than that. Thane had a past before he had a terminal illness.

Overall, I liked your post though, and it certainly made me think. Just that bolded part naggled me a little .

[abnocte]

@IndigoWolfe

I think you are the only person I've seen that has actually bothered to explain why you think Thane should die. You even make some good points, but I happen to disagree :happy: 

Like Tasha, I think curing him should be a choice or a result of different choices, after all, as Fiery Phoenix says, a romanced Thane is very different from a non-romanced one and even more of a unloyal ( by failing his mission ) one.

I also agree with Tasha about his motivations not being driven by his terminal illness.
If you have Thane with you when you have to choose if you keep the Collectors base he says:

"Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate."

Why do you think he would say that? 
As I see it when Thane went after Irikah's murderers he had become exactly like them. It was the only time he killed someone by his own will, and by his own will he made then suffer. Given the kind of character Thane is, I think this particular event in his life is the root of his motivations. At best his illness just pressed him into doing things faster and be more selective with his targets.


PD: Hellooooo everybody! It's being a while!! 

Modifié par abnocte, 23 novembre 2011 - 09:16 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Welcome back, Abnocte! I knew someone was missing all along!

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Abnocte! *glomp*

And like she said, I do like a lot of the points Indigo made. Some pretty good reasons as to why it would be better for Thane to die. But I still think it should be a choice, then it would satisfy both sides.

[abnocte]

Hehe, I have missed you guys!

But first things first... Is this thread spoiler free? 
I freaked out the day I entered the forums just to see everywhere about the leaked beta, but looks like Bioware has managed to keep things in place.... sort of.... 


Following my reasoning in my previous post I realize that we don't actually know since when Thane knows he has Kepral's.

Did he know while Irikah was alive? If so, it's obvious his illness isn't what drives his motivations.
Did he learnt about it while chasing Irikah murderers? I doubt he stoped by the doctor while going on a revenge rampage.
Did he learnt before of after he decided to leave Kolyat with his aunts/uncles? 

The more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems to me that Kepral's has any weight into his motivations. Actually I think that if that were the case Thane would be a really shallow character, I mean, he's been an assasin his whole life, he killed people and never felt guilty because he considers himself a weapon to be used by his employer, then he learns he is going to die and so he decides to make things right?

If he feels no guilt, no responsability about his contracts why would he feel the need to redeem himself?

The only killings he takes resposability for are Irikah's murderers, so it makes more sense that this particular event is the one that drives his motivations...

Yep... I'm totally unable to see any other way... 

[IndigoWolfe]

wildannie wrote...

Thane is not at peace with his own fate if his Romance scene is anything to go by, also it is clear in his shadowbroker letter that his attidude to his life has changed.

'I once accepted my fate...  ...The expectation to move swiftly to my end vanished upon uniting with your cause...'  

He clearly expects to die but he is not really at peace with it.

From what I saw of the Thane romance scene, I thought it was, amongst other things, about helping Thane work through his uncertainty. Yes, before Shepard came along Thane most likely viewed his coming death with the same detachment as the knowledge that one will once again grow hungry at a certain time.

As for the letter, he seemed to be saying that he wanted to spent every moment he had left with Shepard, and spend them wondrously, instead of just counting minutes.

Mei Mei wrote...

From the simple standpoint that death does not characterize any character. Death is the inevitability for all beings. Death is the end. Whether that be on the suicide mission or on the mission to save the Hanar scientists, it's not a characteristic that defines Thane. It is an element of his life.

I did not say “death” was the point from which Thane was characterized, I said “mortality”. Death is the endgame, mortality is the unavoidable fact and knowledge that one’s death will come. The mindset of knowing one’s mortality changes a person’s outlook, and can drive them to do things they might not have done otherwise.

What will happen to Thane? It's what we speculate about, it's what we hope and dread. That is the defining characteristic of Thanes story. The unknown, the journey.

Pardon my bluntness, but when Thane met you he did not say “I don’t know if I’ll live to see another year pass”, he stated simply “I’m dying.” It’s not a disease that might go into remission, it’s a condition that, if left untreated, will kill him. I stand by my assertion that mortality and spending one’s time with wisdom is the defining characteristic of Thane’s story.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I think it would be appropriate for there to be an option of Thane dying. After all, if he is unromanced, then he claims to be at peace with his death, but there still is the issue of Kolyat. He will have nobody, and will likely turn to a life of crime, and become a hitman as a way of becoming closer to his father.

Shepard and Thane saw to that, one way or another, Kolyat didn’t take the path of his father. That was pretty much the entire objective of Thane’s Loyalty Mission.

As for the bolded part. Thane's motivations aren't driven by his terminal illness.

From my understanding, his diagnosis with Keprals Syndrome was what drove Thane on his “right as many wrongs in the galaxy as I can” road. In his own words; “The galaxy is a dark place, I’m trying to make it brighter before I die.”

Granted; I haven’t memorized every single dialogue exchange between Shepard anf Thane, so if it was said that his good-deed-doing was motivated by Irikah’s death, feel free to call me out on it.

wildannie wrote...

On your final point... should Shepard be punished for falling for a dying man?  what kind of message is that?  We are all going to have to face real loss in our real lives, some of us don't enjoy that level of angst in our games.

I’ve lost both my grandfathers, loss in real life is not a foreign concept for me, it‘s never a nice thing. But death is a natural part of life. Furthermore, I never said Shepard should be “punished” for falling for Thane, but it would really depend on how you define “punished”. People deal with death, Shepard is a grown woman, moreover, she's a military officer, if she were unable to deal with death she wouldn't be doing she job she's doing. A person’s death should not and does not invalidate their life. What is Thane’s death compaired to his life, the canvas on which the protrait of his soul was painted, and what it truly meant?



Now, let me state that I have not ruled out the possibility, however small, of me ending up enjoying Thane’s continued story should he be cured. I’ve maintained myself open to at least the possibility, the preceeding is the opinion I have formed acting on the material at hand.

Sorry for the wall'o'text! I don't usually do them.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:59 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I don't usually do walls of text either xD

And for some strange reason, I just had De Ja Vu while reading your post Indigo, hehe.

You are very right about death being a natural concept, and Shepard shows that she can deal with death on the SM. If Thane (or any romanced character) dies on the Collector station, then Shepard barely reacts. I didn't think it was a very good way for Bioware to show no emotions whatsoever. But, it does show that Shepard compartmentalises his/her feelings.

With your response to my post, it has lead me to think about something else now... Were Thane to die, and Shepard didn't stay in contact with Kolyat or help him in anyway, would he revert back to a life as a hitman? Or do you think that this one confrontation will be enough to permanently erase all thoughts of becoming an assassin from his mind?

I don't know, I am completely stumped on this one...

[IndigoWolfe]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Were Thane to die, and Shepard didn't stay in contact with Kolyat or help him in anyway, would he revert back to a life as a hitman? Or do you think that this one confrontation will be enough to permanently erase all thoughts of becoming an assassin from his mind?

I don't know, I am completely stumped on this one...

I think Thane made a big enough impression to instilled in Kolyat a sense of wanting to take a different path than his father, or at least knowing that deep down, it wasn't the right path.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I would hope so! But I can't help but remember how accusatory Kolyat was to his father, and Bailey's remarks on how their relationship isn't something that can be mended with a few words. That they need time, and regular contact to smooth things out. But you can tell (along with what Mouse says) that, despite everything, Kolyat still loves his father.

I hope he turns out happy. Kolyat doesn't have a lot going for him. His mother, his father... His chin.

Modifié par Tasha vas Nar Rayya, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:00 .

[mythlover20]

Totally off topic but an interesting question I just (like a second ago) came across in a comment on a Garrus fanart pic "A Wounded Garrus" by Jennifer Stolzer on the Mass Effect 2 Facebook page:

Who would win: Fenris or Thane?

[mythlover20]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Were Thane to die, and Shepard didn't stay in contact with Kolyat or help him in anyway, would he revert back to a life as a hitman? Or do you think that this one confrontation will be enough to permanently erase all thoughts of becoming an assassin from his mind?

I don't know, I am completely stumped on this one...

I think Thane made a big enough impression to instilled in Kolyat a sense of wanting to take a different path than his father, or at least knowing that deep down, it wasn't the right path.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I would hope so! But I can't help but remember how accusatory Kolyat was
to his father, and Bailey's remarks on how their relationship isn't
something that can be mended with a few words. That they need time, and
regular contact to smooth things out. But you can tell (along with what
Mouse says) that, despite everything, Kolyat still loves his father.

I hope he turns out happy. Kolyat doesn't have a lot going for him. His mother, his father... His chin. ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png

I believe there is an equal possibility that both of you are right, but either path would depend on a lot of different factors.

Whether Kolyat would not revert back to a life of crime would depend on what happened in that interrogation room. We are given the impression that the meeting went (relatively) well, and their continued communication is a very positive thing, but what would hap pen if Thane suddenly died, and Shepard was for some reason unable to get the message to him immediately? (For the record I believe Shepard, especially if she romanced him) would move heaven and earth to reach Kolyatno matter what, but you never know). What would happen, to start rebuilding your relationship with the father who, he himself admits, abandonded him as a child, only to suddenly loose all contact? :innocent:

I believe his reaction would depend on whether or not Thane told him that he was going on a suicide mission (which I am still umm-ing and ahh-ing about). If Thane did Kolyat would know his father perished trying to save him (not the galaxy, Thane would have been doing it for his son) from the Reapers. Such a sacrifice would probably inspire him to do great things, in order to honour his father's memory. In this case I can easily see him staying with C-Sec, and eventually one day applying for Spectre training, because like Tasha said, deep down he loves his father, despite how much his father hurt him. I can easily see him marrying, raising his own family, and even naming one of his sons after his father, all to honour Thane.

If Thane didn't tell him, he would likely see the end of communications as a repetition of abandoment. This would likely lead Kolyat back to a life of crime, and likely jail since, from what we saw in Thane's LM, he wasn't very good at it. Again, like Tasha said, Kolyat didn't have much going for him (his chin? Well, I guess I can agree with that). Kolyat needs a greater support structure than what he has in order to avoid reverting back to a terrible hitman in this scenario. But if he gained that support structure through friends and colleagues, I see him just staying in C-Sec, determined to never turn out like the man who betrayed him, twice.

I hope for the first one. But like I said, it mostly depends on what he and Thane spoke of in the interrogation room. I don't think Thane would have told him about the suicide mission, because coming back into your son's life, stating you want to be a part of it, then saying that you'll probably die soon anyway, and not because of your disease, is not a good start, and Thane is too smart not to realise that. Thane is also too honest not to tell him of the risk. I think it would have been sort of half way in between the two. He would have warned his son about the mission, probably would have told him the consequences for failing, then said something along the lines of: "I would not see you suffer at their hands when I could have prevented it." It seems like something a repentent parent would say. (But then I don't have kids, nor want any, so I don't know. I'll leave it up to those with more knowledge and experience in that area to judge it).

Anyway, that's my two... wait, ten cents on the matter. Hope that helps, Tasha.

[Enmystic]

Whew, epic post is epic

I support a choice.  I don't think Thane's development should be confined to a single path.  Spending time with your loved one before they go/ mortality can be one of the points to Thane's story, but it doesn't have to be the only point.  The theme of mortality can also have meaning from the survival viewpoint as well as the dying one.  Giving Thane the choice to live, in my view, would make give his character even more depth because it allows people to explore those two different interpretations of Thane to it's end.

This is my opinion but feel free to point out where I may have stuck my foot in my mouth.  I was scared to post this, but I didn't sit at my computer combing my post for errors over nothing. 

I understand the role that death would play in Thane's story, but I don't think it should be his end all, be all.  I agree Kepral's is part of what made Thane start on his path to right his wrongs.  However, removing his illness would not take his impact away.  Life does move on.  Thane realizes his mistakes and I don't think he's going to stop trying to make the world a better place just because his death date has been pushed back.  He would continue to spend time with the people he loves and Thane would treasure it all the more if he lives.  Standing on death's door has opened his eyes not only on his past, but also his future. 

One of the first things Thane said when you met him was "I'm dying".  Right there Thane set up a wall for himself.  One of his conflicts (not his sole defining trait) is his Kepral's syndrome and his impending death as a result.

Okay, that's fine.  However...

During the course of ME2 Shepard has the ability to reunite Thane with his estranged son and give him another chance at love.  That final romance scene is where we see Thane fear his death because he's grieving over what he's soon going to lose.  Now that Thane has seen some things turn around for him, he's not at peace anymore.  Thane wants to live, but doesn't think he can achieve it.  Again, there's that barrier he set up when you first met him. 

Thane has motivation to live.  Why not give him hope and let him fight for it?  How would a choice ruin him?  Why would you develop Thane and give them reason to keep going when you're never going to let him try and fight against what's keeping him from achieveing something he wants?  Even if Thane does die I want to see him struggle and try to get past his Kepral's.  For a period of time show Thane having hope for his future in the face of his death.

Thane living (at least a bit longer) would provide him with a second chance.  Something Thane never thought he would get.  The theme or mortality would still ring true in Thane.  Thane wouldn't die in the immediate future, but a part of himself would.  Going off something Mei Mei wrote, which I think is true, if Thane truly wants to keep living he can't be an assassin anymore.  He could still keep atoning for his sins and making the world a brighter place, but he can't keep killing bad people like he's been doing.  Thane would have to let go of something that has shaped his entire life for the sake of keeping the things he loves.  Otherwise he risks repeating the cycle of mistakes that got his first wife killed, his son lost, and almost him killed. 

Thane would be truly lucky because not all people who lead a similar life get a second chance to turn their lives around.  "The galaxy is a dark place, I'm trying to make it brighter before I die."  Thane could still do that, but with a different outlook.  Thane can still be the man who lives in the inevitability of his death, but he gained something more in deciding to not count his days or give in to his fate.  Not to mention Shepard.

Wow, it felt good to get that off my chest.

Modifié par Enmystic, 25 novembre 2011 - 09:49 .

[wildannie]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

wildannie wrote...

Thane is not at peace with his own fate if his Romance scene is anything to go by, also it is clear in his shadowbroker letter that his attidude to his life has changed.

'I once accepted my fate...  ...The expectation to move swiftly to my end vanished upon uniting with your cause...'  

He clearly expects to die but he is not really at peace with it.

From what I saw of the Thane romance scene, I thought it was, amongst other things, about helping Thane work through his uncertainty. Yes, before Shepard came along Thane most likely viewed his coming death with the same detachment as the knowledge that one will once again grow hungry at a certain time.

As for the letter, he seemed to be saying that he wanted to spent every moment he had left with Shepard, and spend them wondrously, instead of just counting minutes.

wildannie wrote...

On your final point... should Shepard be punished for falling for a dying man?  what kind of message is that?  We are all going to have to face real loss in our real lives, some of us don't enjoy that level of angst in our games.

I’ve lost both my grandfathers, loss in real life is not a foreign concept for me, it‘s never a nice thing. But death is a natural part of life. Furthermore, I never said Shepard should be “punished” for falling for Thane, but it would really depend on how you define “punished”. People deal with death, Shepard is a grown woman, moreover, she's a military officer, if she were unable to deal with death she wouldn't be doing she job she's doing. A person’s death should not and does not invalidate their life. What is Thane’s death compaired to his life, the canvas on which the protrait of his soul was painted, and what it truly meant?



Now, let me state that I have not ruled out the possibility, however small, of me ending up enjoying Thane’s continued story should he be cured. I’ve maintained myself open to at least the possibility, the preceeding is the opinion I have formed acting on the material at hand.

Sorry for the wall'o'text! I don't usually do them.

On your point re: the Romance scene, I totally disagree, I can maybe see your point if Shepard takes the renegade option which shuts down his emotional response (although it's not how I would interpret it) but there is no indication that the paragon response is working through Thane's uncertainty...Shepard offers Thane comfort they take their relationship to a physical level... I don't think they were talking after the fade to black .

In the letter it is clear Thane wants to spend the rest of his life with Shepard, that does not mean that he's happy to just let his death happen without a fight.  Before Shepard he was letting himself go without a fight, refusing treatment.  He has, through Shepard, been given a reason to try and prolong his life and in the Mass Effect universe with the connections that Thane has... where there's a will, there ought to be a way.


I'm quite sure that real life loss is not a foreign concept to anyone and I didn't mean to imply that it was.  In Mass Effect death is everywhere, but I don't think we need Thane to explore it.    I don't even think that exploration of the theme of death through Shepard LIs could be very effective because Shepard is never going to be able to show a level of grief to do it justice, or prolong it beyond one scene.

I'm glad you're open to the possibility of a cure being an enjoyable development, we just have to hope that whatever Bioware come up with will keep us all happy 

Modifié par wildannie, 24 novembre 2011 - 08:04 .

[wasp777]

I think it's fair to say that even with that script and revisions and inconsistencies within it that they're capable of making changes. I don't think it would be that diggicult to edit and change things, and I think that the script itself was slightly outdated.                                                                                                                                                                                              I assume story beats will remain the same and choices will largely be the same, but there may be other consequences or added decisions or larger parts for characters. I do think that there will be harsh consequences as well as virtually none; that way people who want the absolute best things for everyone can have it and be happy, those who are fine with some good and some bad will have that, and those who don't really care or who will play through to see everything will be catered to.

Modifié par wasp777, 24 novembre 2011 - 10:15 .

[Cosmochyck]

wildannie wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

wildannie wrote...

Thane is not at peace with his own fate if his Romance scene is anything to go by, also it is clear in his shadowbroker letter that his attidude to his life has changed.

*snip*

From what I saw of the Thane romance scene, I thought it was, amongst other things, about helping Thane work through his uncertainty. Yes, before Shepard came along Thane most likely viewed his coming death with the same detachment as the knowledge that one will once again grow hungry at a certain time.

As for the letter, he seemed to be saying that he wanted to spent every moment he had left with Shepard, and spend them wondrously, instead of just counting minutes.

wildannie wrote...

On your final point... should Shepard be punished for falling for a dying man?  what kind of message is that?  We are all going to have to face real loss in our real lives, some of us don't enjoy that level of angst in our games.

*snip*

On your point re: the Romance scene, I totally disagree, I can maybe see your point if Shepard takes the renegade option which shuts down his emotional response (although it's not how I would interpret it) but there is no indication that the paragon response is working through Thane's uncertainty...Shepard offers Thane comfort they take their relationship to a physical level... I don't think they were talking after the fade to black .

In the letter it is clear Thane wants to spend the rest of his life with Shepard, that does not mean that he's happy to just let his death happen without a fight.  Before Shepard he was letting himself go without a fight, refusing treatment.  He has, through Shepard, been given a reason to try and prolong his life and in the Mass Effect universe with the connections that Thane has... where there's a will, there ought to be a way.


*snip*
I'm glad you're open to the possibility of a cure being an enjoyable development, we just have to hope that whatever Bioware come up with will keep us all happy 

I agree with this as well.  Yes Thane had no purpose left in him, which he clearly expresses to Shepard.  Her mission has helped give him one initially, but then as their relationship grows (male or female), and if you reunite him with his son, his attitude seems to change.  He is no longer content with just dying. 

I'm sure Bioware won't disappoint us!

Happy Thanksgiving to all you Americans!
Thane is patiently waiting for his turkey dinner!
Courtesy of Dolmheon

Modifié par Cosmochyck, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:59 .