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Thane Thread 'It's difficult. All things worth keeping are.' Spoilers will be neck-snapped.


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#12176
The Sarendoctrinator

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I think I've spent too much time on this thread in the past to completely differentiate romanced/unromanced Thane's attitudes towards dying. There definitely wasn't as big of a change if you don't romance him, and that might be why some people who only spoke to him as an ally or a even friend didn't notice where he seemed to act out of character in ME3.

If I remember right though, ME2 Thane didn't want to die in a hospital, romanced or not. (I don't mind that the actual death scene happened in the hospital rather than immediately after Kai Leng's attack, mostly because I'm glad that Kolyat could be included in the prayer scene. A comment that reflected that ME2 line, and the bitter irony of it now, would have been nice.) Thane wanted to do something good for the galaxy at the end of his life, and he clearly still had some fight in him. Kai Leng's no easy opponent. I would have liked to see an option to recruit him, maybe with a limit that he needs a break of one mission in between (take him on one mission, leave him on the Normandy during the next, and then take him on another) to show that he's not at the same level he used to be... but then I guess they'd have to add in a reason for him to be in the Citadel at the time of the coup.

One thing I would have liked to play out differently, on Shepard's part, is for there to be an option to say that Shepard's first visit to the hospital was for Thane. I know some of my Shepards couldn't care less about Kaidan/Ashley. It wasn't bad on the first Shepard I played because she wanted to see Kaidan too - he was her friend, but so is Thane, and an option to say that she was there for both of them would have helped. Not to mention Shepard watching Thane's battle with Kai Leng instead of helping. There could have been ways around this, making Shepard occupied with another battle during the cutscene or something similar.

But there were still parts of Thane's ME3 arc that I liked. I just try to headcanon the rest as best as possible.

Cosmochyck wrote...

@saren - *tacklehugs*  Glad to see you back!!!
The prayer was lovely, but should not have been recycled for a romanced Thane.  We got the short of the stick for sure - the only one that got less was Jacob.  They really butchered them both.  And Thane was so out of character.  His death didn't "inspire" me, or make me emotional.  It just angered me.  And no paramour achievement?  Ugh.  Plus everyone on the ship immediately seems to be hitting on my FemShpe right after he dies.  Can we say inappropriate??  To top it off they even recycled the LoTSB letter to Shep from Thane.  AWESOME.
I will continue to hold out hope - we just have to get all these projects sent off so they know we won't give up!
@mnomaha - you might not like DGs latest twitter response...he said if you were asking about Thane, go ahead and ask but you won't like the answer....Posted Image

So glad to be back! Posted Image I missed the character forum, as you guys can probably tell from the wall of text above.

The LotSB letter is a tricky subject. Not everyone would have played it and saw the letter, so in my case, it'll be nice that my ThaneShep can read it too. Plus, Thane doesn't know that Shepard who played through LotSB read it already... right? So it'd make sense for him to send it anyway. I can understand wanting additional content when some of it feels like a repeat though.

And the way you described Thane's death was basically how I felt about Shepard's at the end of ME3. It was just frustrating (and on some level, to me, a little disgusting). As for Jacob, at least it'll be possible to metagame around this with my Shepards. Out of the two that'll romance him, one was just casual and the other will now take his own advice and send him into the vents to avoid acting totally out of character in ME3.

I'm curious to see what Gaider has to say about Thane as well, especially if he gives a detailed answer.

#12177
mnomaha

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Okay, I did it. We'll see what he says.

#12178
Cosmochyck

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I read it - well written at least. I'm still betting he thinks it's fine. He's on board I think with the whole "he said he was dying, you knew he was dying" thing.

#12179
JECW

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Renmiri1 wrote...

I think if you just start with ME3 and meet Thane at the hospital it is ok. That is precisely the problem with the dialog in ME3: We got a dialog from someone you barely knew who was with you on a previous mission.. like someone on the Cafeteria or that cook we get spices for on ME2. To meet them near death but resigned in ME3 and to have them honor you with their final prayer, dying as a hero is cool. For the cook or for the guy who had a brother on Horizon or other "barely there" npc.

But to get that kind of dialog to any other more known npc is an insult. Even Ken and Gabi deserved - and got - more.

To have this kind of cold resigned dialogue with your ME2 LI is pretty devastating. And it makes me angry at the development team. FFS was there no one from the original ME2 team there ? It doesn't sound like there was. ME2 was all but ignored :(


I believe Thane is dead if you don't import from ME2, so the people who do that never even meet him. If you didn't play ME2 then you probably don't know who Thane is.

#12180
JECW

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Cosmochyck wrote...

I read it - well written at least. I'm still betting he thinks it's fine. He's on board I think with the whole "he said he was dying, you knew he was dying" thing.


Judging by what he said you are probably right. He probably doesn't even know much about the character, and I doubt he did the romance or even really talked to Thane so what he has to say won't mean anything.

Modifié par JECW, 13 juin 2012 - 11:50 .


#12181
mnomaha

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It's rather hard to give a detailed answer on twitter. stupid character limit. :(

#12182
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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Honestly, I don't even care if BioWare hands me the cure without putting any effort into it. I am just tired of the nonsense. I am so fed up at this point that this scenario can play out okay in my mind...

(Thane shows up suddenly on the Normandy)

Shep: Uh... what? Thane I saw you die!
Thane: Many apologizes, Siha... I had to fake my own death so I can follow my dream of being a circus clown.
Shep: "Thane,  I can't see you as clown.... especially after many years of spending your life in one attitude. Are you sure you can even still smile? I know you will pull a few muscles in doing so but I like to use you as an example for kids who pout all the time".
Thane: I ensure you I can make others laugh, all I need to do is paint a smile on my face.
Shep: I don't see you as the type to drive around in tiny cars and shoot water out of a flower.

Modifié par Squeegee83, 14 juin 2012 - 02:09 .


#12183
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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Yeah, I am taking votes for a song project. I don't even know why I have to come here and say anything. I only got three people to vote so far... sad. Are we a bunch of people who wanted something else, or we just crying for no reason? So come over to the group and make a difference.

Modifié par Squeegee83, 14 juin 2012 - 02:22 .


#12184
tehprincessJ

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Oops. Sorry. Haven't checked the group boards in a while, apologies. ♥

#12185
mnomaha

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Not everyone joins groups to actually participate--they collect them like friends. And some of us enjoy hanging out in the main threads and talking to other people.

#12186
mnomaha

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mnomaha wrote...

Okay, I did it. We'll see what he says.


Seriously? i can't even believe he wrong characters like Valen, Zevran and Alistair. Did you f*cking see his reply? How old is he?

#12187
JECW

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mnomaha wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Okay, I did it. We'll see what he says.


Seriously? i can't even believe he wrong characters like Valen, Zevran and Alistair. Did you f*cking see his reply? How old is he?



Yes I saw his reply and he sounds like an idiot.
Of course he didn't do the romance most of the people who make comments like that didn't. He knows nothing about the character so his opinion doesn't matter.

#12188
tehprincessJ

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link, please? Curious J is curious. And also not on twitter.

#12189
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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True, but if I was just a group and not a campaign, I can agree. mnomaha, do you have any idea how much work, time, heartbreak, effort I have placed into this? I built an entire poster out of scratch. No other fan base has produce such a thing so far.

The least anyone else can do is check up on it once in awhile, most people would rip out their hair if they had any idea how frustrating/difficult and time consuming this is. I haven't spent up to $400 so far on this campaign to be blown off like dust. As I am determine to make a difference, I am just as determine to make sure others participate. I ain't spending the money, which I am not asking for donations on, to be currently ignore. That is just insult. Especially when I work a job that just pays me $400 every two weeks. That's right, this campaign has taken an entire paycheck from me. Sorry if I expect others to take two seconds out of their lives to vote on a few songs. I'm not asking for much.

This just pisses me the hell off. I don't see anyone else giving this much, so please don't question me... just help me. That's all ask.

*happy face of course*

Modifié par Squeegee83, 14 juin 2012 - 03:35 .


#12190
mnomaha

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tehprincessJ wrote...

link, please? Curious J is curious. And also not on twitter.


Here you go:

https://twitter.com/...094526330478592

#12191
JECW

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@mnomaha

I can't tell if he was trying to be funny with that remark. Are you going to reply back to him?

#12192
tehprincessJ

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mnomaha wrote...

tehprincessJ wrote...

link, please? Curious J is curious. And also not on twitter.


Here you go:

https://twitter.com/...094526330478592


Thank you.

And huh. He sounds Xenophobic. That's... disappointing to me, considering how much I like his writing. Wonder if he'd change his mind if Thane actually looked like he does in this
http://seehangart.de...t.com/#/d4izsnl .Posted Image

#12193
JECW

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I'm sure he's got his favorites. Thane just isn't one of them.

#12194
mnomaha

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Because he didn't write Thane. He did Carth, Valen, Zevran, Alistair, Fenris and an abundance of others. All wonderful romances. All alive at the end or at least given the option to live.

I can only assume, probably incorrectly, that this may be one of the reasons Chris left. No choice in the outcome of his writing.

#12195
mnomaha

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Sorry guys. I tried, I really did. But apparently not even the big DG knows how to actively listen anymore.

I'm going back to the old games. You know, the ones where bioware actually gave a **** about the characters and fanbase.

#12196
The Sarendoctrinator

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tehprincessJ wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Here you go:

https://twitter.com/...094526330478592


Thank you.

And huh. He sounds Xenophobic. That's... disappointing to me, considering how much I like his writing.

An extra thanks from me for posting this link. :)

I'm not totally surprised by this. There's a running joke in the DA forums about Gaider not wanting to write a dwarf romance. xD In my opinion, it matters most if they like the character or not - even if they only like them as a friend. It's like when people only think of Garrus as their Shepard's bro, and would never consider romancing him. Doesn't bother me because hey, we're both fans of the same character.

It still sounds like a positive comment to me. The only part I found curious was his response to "shouldn't the dialogues be different for friendship/romance?" I've always thought there should be a good amount of overlap (lovers can be friends too, and certain dialogues - the prayer, for example - work perfectly for both), but definitely there should be things exclusive to the romance. And there are, of course. Not denying that. Just a little confused by the suggestion that it's related to his squadmate status.

#12197
JECW

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mnomaha wrote...

Sorry guys. I tried, I really did. But apparently not even the big DG knows how to actively listen anymore.

I'm going back to the old games. You know, the ones where bioware actually gave a **** about the characters and fanbase.


He's just like every other writer in they company. They don't care anymore. He didn't even work on ME3 and I doubt he has any real clue who Thane is. It seem like all the people that actually cared are gone and we are left with pretty much nothing. Writers who will write any kind of garbage and call it a moving scene when it's clear they have no idea what a real moving scene is. Maybe they should watch a Hollywood move sometime. A soap opera could have done a better job with Thane.I just don't know what to say about it anymore.

Modifié par JECW, 14 juin 2012 - 08:00 .


#12198
The Sarendoctrinator

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Well, people have different opinions about what a moving scene is. For me, that would accurately describe the prayer scene with Thane (I tend to use the words "powerful" and "emotional" more often, but "moving" works just as well), especially the one part that I didn't know about ahead of time - that the prayer was for Shepard.

#12199
JECW

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The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

Well, people have different opinions about what a moving scene is. For me, that would accurately describe the prayer scene with Thane (I tend to use the words "powerful" and "emotional" more often, but "moving" works just as well), especially the one part that I didn't know about ahead of time - that the prayer was for Shepard.


The prayer was nice but the fact that Shepard stands there so emotionless when the man she loves is dying really ruins it for me. She is practically having a break down when Kaidan gets hurt, but nothing for Thane. No one mentioning him after doesn't help. Everyone mentions Mordin, but nothing for Thane. They admitted they forgot about him and it feels like they did. I think thats why I just felt so numb when I first watched that scene. I find myself skipping over it because I just don't want to watch it. It's just frustrating that no one at Bioware seems to have a problem with any of these things.

Modifié par JECW, 14 juin 2012 - 08:46 .


#12200
The Sarendoctrinator

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JECW wrote...

The prayer was nice but the fact that Shepard stands there so emotionless when the man she loves is dying really ruins it for me. She is practically having a break down when Kaidan gets hurt, but nothing for Thane. No one mentioning him after doesn't help. Everyone mentions Mordin, but nothing for Thane. They admitted they forgot about him and it feels like they did. I think thats why I just felt so numb when I first watched that scene. I find myself skipping over it because I just don't want to watch it. It's just frustrating that no one at Bioware seems to have a problem with any of these things.

So it was more a problem with Shepard for you in that scene, rather than Thane's part?

More options for Shepard is always good. Her response seemed fine to me, but it would have been nice to include a stronger reaction for those who wanted it. I didn't think she sounded emotionless, just like she was keeping her emotions in control. Then again, I didn't consider her reaction to Kaidan's injuries anything close to a break down either.

They've got to be careful with how much emotion they make Shepard show. Sometimes they seem to not show as much so they won't risk anyone thinking their Shepards are overreacting, but then it can be wrong for others who want to see that kind of response. On the other hand, it can be just as frustrating if they show too much. There were definitely times when I thought it was off. And I agree that other characters should have mentioned Thane afterwards.