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Thane Thread 'It's difficult. All things worth keeping are.' Spoilers will be neck-snapped.


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#12701
coldwetn0se

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@Roarkshop13

While I am glad that you found something worthwhile in Thane's content and death, I still believe that the way they handled his character and his subsequent death, was trivial. *WARNING* - about to start repeating myself....again.

He is our only true representive for the Drell race, and has much more to offer in regards to their host race, the Hanar. That right there is enough to bring much to the table, character and storywise.....but alas, that is not what we got. Moving on, his involvement with the Coup screams of setup; a lack of knowing (or bothering) to do with him in regards to "action". His reason for being on the Citadel is for Kolyat (though he fails to talk about that IF you romanced him...go figure. Time constraints I'm guessing?!?), yet he high tails it to the aid of a Salarian Councilor. (looking to protect his son seems more in keeping with his character.....and yes, we could speculate that he did that first, but still....was there enough time for that? Where would he have put his son, or found his son to begin with, to make sure he was safe?) We are led to believe from earlier conversations that he is so sick (and yes, they actually changed his illness in me3....look for the Medical Discussion on the SaveThane Group by BeanieBat and moira-chan), that having him take on KL seems....well, heroic or suicidal? The fight it self, looks rather ridiculous (check out RShara's slide presentation of the KL/Thane fight for further analysis). Between the sneaking up/headshot in sight, the biotic beeotch slap when he tosses KL down to the ground, and the fact that when Shep and Co. show up, they just stand there doing nothing, yes; this just appears shoddy. It puts me in mind of most action sequences that appear in movies.....flashy, but lacking any sense of realism that even suspending disbelief becomes difficult. The fact that if you don't talk to Thane before the Citadel Coup (and yes, some people did do that after the game was first released), the scenario of Kirahee coming in to stop KL, if he is alive in your play through, or the Councilor dying happens, just screams of shoehorning an intricate character into a role merely because he is already on the Citadel and also an assassin. Then Thane just dies off screen with no mention at all.....well, except that the new EC will show his picture in the Flashback. I do realize that I view this more critical than those that either didn't romance Thane, or really did care to begin with, but I saw most of these things right away on March 7th; the last day I played this game.

Finally we get to Kepral's it self, and I will just requote what I said when reviewing Myth's essay:

Quick question; have you stressed the connection to a cure or life extending treatment for Thane, would mean a cure or life extention for the Drell race, in other parts of your essay(s)? This connection has always bugged me, that the BW team dropped so easily. Since he IS our representative in the game for the Drell race, and he has Kepral's, the leading cause of death for Drell's (an already languishing race due to apocolyptic circumstances on their homeworld), having helped Thane with Kepral's would have meant just as much to his entire race, as curing the genophage or adapting the Quarians did, IMO. Anyway, just curious.......


Thematically, us helping him with his Keprals would have in turn, helped the entire Drell race. Aiding galactic races has been a central theme in all the ME games. Doing this would have kept that theme in line with the rest of the storylines. This wasn't some rare disease that only he and a few others had, this is a major affliction for his entire race. I would say that that qualifies as important under the established themes in this series.

Lastly, the romance. This was tacked on. Most have agreed this to be true, regardless of their opinions of Thane's death. You are definately right that ALL the non squaddie ME2 LI's got short changed, and Jacob's situation is a complete mess (and completely unfair!). Hell, I'm bent that Samara's potential romance was disregarded as well (poor Abel Shepard....). However, it is a bit easier to use ones imagination (headcannon, if you will), when the character in question doesn't have a forced death. More to the point though is.....this is the Thane thread, so we are meant to talk about Thane and our feelings on his character and portrayal in the ME universe. We do touch on the others of course, and many of us have lent our voices to the other poorly handled characters as well, in other threads and petitions. Needless to say, knowing that you know Myth, I am sure you have heard all we have to say on what went wrong with the romance arc (or lack there of) in me3. To sum up: Character arc from romanced Thane in ME2 is altered (without explanation or questioning) in me3, no quality time with Thane, no chance to reconfirm the romance, no Paramour Achievement, no "I love you's" in the death scene ( in fact the Shepard in the death scene acts the same whether romanced or not...very "cold" feeling), no codex entry, no mention of him by other squadmates, ect..........(and yes, the make-out scene in front of the giant window is cringeworthy....yeesh! Could they not have spared a private room at the very least??)

I do appreciate your thoughts, and as strange as it may sound after that long rant, I really do wish for people to be happy with the game they have spent time and money on. So this is a good thing. I, however, am not. So, I will be happy in the fact that I haven't finished me3 and I can just make up my own story on how things turned out after ME2. I will continue to play ME and ME2 because I thoroughly enjnoy those two games. Happy Gaming! :)


*EDIT*
Bah!  Edit for TOP

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Modifié par coldwetn0se, 28 juin 2012 - 07:33 .


#12702
RShara

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firel wrote...

i made this gif, feel free to use it against fanboys who are too lazy to go on youtube. :)

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:wub::o
I LIKE

Modifié par RShara, 28 juin 2012 - 07:33 .


#12703
Lucky Thirteen

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Roarkshop13 wrote...
As for Thane dying I don't feel like that was trivialized at all. I feel Thane had a GOOD death and a GREAT death scene. I mean curing Kepral's would have seemed.. I don't know.... to underhanded and cheap to me. And I certainly didn't want him to die a boring stupid death slowly withering away in a hospital. He died defending us, doing what was right and he was a fricking bad ass right up until the end. I feel like Thane dying is something that really drives home what is at stake for Thane-mancers and makes you determined to finish the task at hand. At least that's how it was for me.


I feel like the death trivialized Thane. Made him pointless, his only purpose was to die and provide another shock value scene to make people cry. Even then, if you don't have him, another NPC can replace him. That NPC actually gives Shepard War Assets and has a higher level of importance over Thane. Thane's importance is a death scene. He's not even listed as a character in the game's guide. He isn't vital at all and I don't understand why they bothered to bring him back. They might as well have saved themselves the trouble of figuring out how to get his body into a bed, wearing the same cloths from ME2, and had a random NPC try to help Shepard.

Even before the game came out, I said that if he had to die, I'd want him to go out with a bang, but I didn't mean for that to be all. I expected it to be much later in the game, after he had a well laid out story in the game. They wanted a tragic death, fine, but it's not great story telling if you made a character only to die in a cool way. Tragic stories are tragic because people were living before, not sitting and waiting to die with a smile on their face. It's almost demented really.

#12704
Moira-chan

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me too coldi :) that was an awesome post :)

#12705
coldwetn0se

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@moira - Thank you. And thank you for writing that medical report along with Beanibat

@RShara - Thanks for posting @firel's gif......it's awesome!

@LT - True words....very well said! And since I am on a roll...Thanks! :)

#12706
Renmiri1

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Lucky Thirteen wrote...



I feel like the death trivialized Thane. Made him pointless, his only purpose was to die and provide another shock value scene to make people cry. Even then, if you don't have him, another NPC can replace him. That NPC actually gives Shepard War Assets and has a higher level of importance over Thane. Thane's importance is a death scene. He's not even listed as a character in the game's guide. He isn't vital at all and I don't understand why they bothered to bring him back. They might as well have saved themselves the trouble of figuring out how to get his body into a bed, wearing the same cloths from ME2, and had a random NPC try to help Shepard.


This, 1,000 times this. Thane is there just to give cheap thrills to people who feel they need a death so kill the stiffterminally ill guy and you get your dose of drama.

#12707
coldwetn0se

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Here.....have a POLL.

#12708
Renmiri1

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Thane in the mind of ME3 writers

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#12709
utaker1988

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Voted for Liara.

Nah, Thane of course.

Bik file in Arrival.... Arv_Climax_Failure

I had quite the laugh out of the name of that one. Yes, I have Arrived! Shep's panties! Close to Climax! ::Harbinger voice::: You have Failed. rawrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

#12710
Renmiri1

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lol, that must be Kaidan, Thane never fails! ;)

#12711
coldwetn0se

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**Posted this over in the Protest thread as well, but added a few things. Thought it would be a good reference for some. Maybe.**

Okay, timeline stuff! People have a tendency to bring up the time-line that Thane mentions in the Hospital; "my favorite doctor gave me three months to live....nine months ago." (not an exact quote, but pretty close. But this is a mess up of previous established time-lines that BW themselves originally created. So, I am going to set up the time line based on the conversation Shepard has with Tali on the Citadel (if any of you know the exact quote I would forever give you chocolate covered ridges...um cookies. yeah, that's it...) where she states that it has been exactly three years since Shepard met her in the back alley of the wards on the Citadel. So working with that in-game timeline, here is a "reasonable" scenario to consider:
1) We have 3years from getting Tali in ME1 to the conversation with Tali on the Citadel in me3

2) We can immediately subtract from that timeline the following:
a) 2 years for dead/rebuilding Shepard
B) 6 months house arrest between ME2 and me3
c) 1 month (roughly; my general assumption) from the time you start ME2 to getting Thane (assuming your not using a game editor to "get Thane early"....and for this exercise we will stick with base game setup).

3) When we first recruit Thane he says he will be fine for the next 8 -12 months (fine means active in my opinion, and after that he is too weak to fight. NOT that he will be DEAD in 8-12 months....the fact that he says "fine" and not "dead" is key.)

4) So far we have the following: 3 (years)
- 2 (years)
- 6 months
- 1 month
---------------
5 months

5) I have seen others post this before, that it is believed that ME1 took place over only a couple of months, while ME2 was longer. I admit I am not working on anything official, so if anyone has any in-game hints referring to length of time for ME1, please let me know. For now, I will use previous posters comments on this, till I can get a better verification. Based on everything we know in the two games, I would follow this is probably correct; roughly 2 months for ME1 (at least AFTER Eden Prime), and the 4 months for ME2. (don't forget, that even though the current total is at 5 months, I had already subtracted one month for time BEFORE getting Thane, in ME2).

6) So, the general timeline would appear as such:
a) First visit to the Citadel in ME1 to the time of Shepards death, roughly 2 months.
B) 2 Years pass till Shepard is resurrected
c) 1 month pass until we get Thane
d) Thane says he will be fine for the next 8-12 months (we are currently at 2year and 3 months out of 3 years)
e) 3 months till the end of the SM
f) 6 months house arrest
g) 1 month till we finally get to speak to Thane at Huerta (this is again, my guess at how much time has passed since Shepard left Earth, went to Mars, Citadel, Palaven and back to the Citadel.

7) So, total number of months from the original "I should be fine for the next 8 -12 months" is: 10 Months

Yes, I do realize I am taking some liberty here, but working on the in-game info that Tali gives us in me3, and using other "known" timelines in game, this seems like a fair breakdown.

This clearly puts Thane still in the window of being "fine"....and anyone who has had sick family/friends or themselves knows that those terminal estimations are generally the average. Lasting a few months longer is not out of the realm of possibility (both Renmiri and myself have mentioned two such real life examples from our own personal experiences.) Because this is the timeline I would have expected them to follow (instead of making up the babble that comes out of Thane's mouth about "3 months to live, 6 months ago"), I would argue, that even without a cure/life extention, he shouldn't have been considered "waiting to die" to begin with. Further evidence that they gave him the heave-ho for character development.

This doesn't mean that I think that they will retcon (or even that they should....what a mess that could be.). The importance of this is to illustrate that beyond abandoning specific character arcs, and missing great opportunities for further story development with the Drell race (and Hanar by extention), they really cut him off period. If they had just stuck with some of the established plot and character points with Thane, we could have left a lot up to speculation, and they could have yet another brilliant character that they could use for further DLC. Building on existing relationships has always been a popular objective in DLC's (hello LotSB, DA DLC often used many of the existing characters to add more story, background and flavor to the DLC's), and they could have left his role open enough to add that. They still could, but they would have to be willing to give us an option to extend his life.

#12712
gearseffect

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Hello Thane fans I come to you all once again, apparently digging out the cut Thane content from my FF, and then trying to rewrite that dialogue more Thane like isn't coming to me as easily as it had when I first wrote it.

Granted I wrote that stuff back in like Feb-March, so it's been sitting around for while, but I really would like some help fine tuning it and all.

I've done some tweaking but it's not much better, If anyone would be willing to read it and maybe suggest alterations in wording, grammar, punctuations , and stuff to make it feel and seem more Thane, I'd be happy as can be, if someone here would be willing to do that let me know, I could either PM you it or just post the new reworked content here again?

Thanks greatly appreciated

#12713
mythlover20

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Well, this is annoying. I downloaded the Clean Movies Mod for ME2 and I can't figure out how to get flycam to work. Especially annoying cause I wanted it to get those screenies for BeanieBat's project.

Does anyone know how I'd be able to... well.. use it. Sorry I'm drugged up at the moment and my brain's not working at it's usual capacity.

@gears.... I'd love to, but I'm afraid I don't have time at the moment. Maybe utaker, if she's not to busy. I'm sorry, I just have to finish the essay, get my thane writing project off the ground, and I've agreed to do more writing for another dA group. And I have cosmo's and moira's stuff to beta and edit as well. I'm sorry. I'd love to help. :(

#12714
coldwetn0se

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For anyone who also hangs out on HTL, there is a new group starting up to "encourage" BW to put together LI DLC or include LI content in future DLC. So, if anyone wants to lend their voice and chicken scratch to their poll, here ya go:

http://www.holdtheli...ance-pack.2520/

#12715
utaker1988

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Ok, voted on that one too. I really can't start commenting and visiting another forum. Maybe I'll just keep quiet over there.

#12716
RShara

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Don't try to argue with Optimistyx. I have no idea why, but she's totally against any changes whatsoever.

#12717
Renmiri1

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tehehe.. more texture modding, this time on Sheppard's cabin

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#12718
mnomaha

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*sigh* yeah, I know, she just f*cks me off today for some reason.

#12719
RShara

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She once said to me that bringing back the rachni queen was more realistic than curing Thane

#12720
utaker1988

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I noticed that RShara. I just don't get why anyone would care if something was added but did NOT change their game whatsoever. WTF is wrong with people that think their game should be everyone's game?

Maybe because I'm not some uptight ****** who thinks my way is the only way. I also think that everyone has one life and everyone should have some level of happiness in it. The only people I've met who don't want others to be happy are so darn miserable that they want everyone at that level. I have a hard time with people like that. I avoid them.

#12721
utaker1988

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Renmiri1 wrote...

tehehe.. more texture modding, this time on Sheppard's cabin

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That is some awesome stuff!  If I could do it, I would.  I suck at text modding, so I use other's stuff.  For awhile I had someone's text mod for Star Wars sheets in Shep's Cabin for ME2.  Removed it before Thane came up, didn't want him snickering at her.

#12722
mnomaha

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RShara wrote...

She once said to me that bringing back the rachni queen was more realistic than curing Thane


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Didn't bioware just do that?

#12723
mnomaha

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Renmiri1 wrote...

tehehe.. more texture modding, this time on Sheppard's cabin

Posted Image


Posted Image how the hell do I get this???   Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#12724
RShara

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mnomaha wrote...

RShara wrote...

She once said to me that bringing back the rachni queen was more realistic than curing Thane


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Didn't bioware just do that?


Yep.  And it was an example of space magic that I was using to say how if they can do one, they can do the other.

#12725
Renmiri1

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mnomaha wrote...
[ snip ]

Posted Image how the hell do I get this???   Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


Is one single pcc file. And the PCCTOCbin file as well. I'll work a bit more on it to make it look like Thane is in Shep's bed which was my original intent :devil: and then see if I can put a "mod" out there. :D