15439 réponses à ce sujet

[utaker1988]

Renmiri1 wrote...

mnomaha wrote...
[ snip ]

 how the hell do I get this???  

Is one single pcc file. And the PCCTOCbin file as well. I'll work a bit more on it to make it look like Thane is in Shep's bed which was my original intent  and then see if I can put a "mod" out there. 

Oh gods, you would be my hero.  If a mod isn't possible, would it be possible for us to just replace our files with your files?  I hope that made sense.  I know what I'm trying to say.  Too bad no one else probably does.

[Renmiri1]

Ya is possible but you need the me3explorer tool. I will make a tutorial for it then.

[firel]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I am just going to leave this here, since I think most of you will receive my message by doing this.

For anyone who donated to get a #SaveThane pin from me, my shipment has arrived. It came in kinda late but over this weekend I will work on getting it all prepped and sent out on Monday. Thanks so much guys!

yay! now i just gotta decide where to stick mine.


ANOTHER POLL.

Modifié par firel, 29 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[Moira-chan]

http://social.biowar...dex/12793076/15 <- please help me, i'm gonna freak out, really

[RShara]

Okay I have some time today so I can type up that long new thread I was talking about. Everyone ok with me posting here first for proofing?

I also stole quotes from various people but I can't remember who said what.........

[RShara]

If both Thane and Kirrhe are missing, does the salarian councilor die or is there a third replacement? I can't remember

[utaker1988]

The councilor dies if neither Thane or Kirrahe are around.

[Moira-chan]

no, as i renembered right, there is still jondom beau left, that replace kirrahe, even if you don't meet him with kasumi, than the council dies

[RShara]

Can anyone find out for sure? I want to get this thread up today

[utaker1988]

Alternatively, if Captain Kirrahe survived Virmire and Shepard did not talk to Thane before the attack, Captain Kirrahe will be the one to save the salarian councilor and die in the process. However, even if Thane was not talked to before the attack, his name will still appear on the Normandy's memorial wall. If both Captain Kirrahe and Thane died in past games, Leng will be successful in the assassination.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Thane_Krios

Otherwise, if Kirrahe and Thane are both alive and if Shepard spoke to Thane before the attack, Thane will save the salarian councilor's life and be wounded in the process, and Shepard will retain "Major Kirrahe" as a War Asset. If neither he nor Thane is alive (or hasn't been spoken to), Kai Leng will succeed in assassinating the councilor.

http://masseffect.wi...Captain_Kirrahe

Leng, along with a sizable contingent of Cerberus forces, were deployed during Councilor Udina's attempted coup against the Citadel Council. He was close to assassinating the salarian councilor when Shepard and either Major Kirrahe or Thane Krios interfered. After a brief skirmish, Leng managed to escape after stabbing Krios/Kirrahe. If both Thane and the major had previously died, Leng will successfully assassinate the councilor.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Kai_Leng

[Moira-chan]

yepp sorry for that no jondom, i just heard it from gamergal over at da, sorry for that

[RShara]

How's this?

How's this?

Thane's Story Arc: PLEASE READ FIRST POST

I'd first like to mention that I'm not expecting a Thane-only DLC, but that a general DLC dealing with ALL the neglected squadmembers would be my great expectation.

So Thane fans have been getting a lot of drive-by posters who don't bother to read our reasons before posting that they thought his death was "fine" or "bad-ass", or "you knew he was ill, deal with it". I'd like to clarify, as briefly as I can, why it was fine in one way, and a travesty in another. Bullet pointed first, then more detail later.

What we're asking for is, at the very least, more interaction with him before he dies. Interaction that is in character for him, please, and not just a couple of thrown in lines that continue in the same thread that he's already in. A lot of us are to the point, however, where we want a full-on life extension or cure, just because we are so very disappointed in how he was handled, and the lack of respect that was given to his character and story.

We are NOT asking that the entire story is changed.  We are asking for an OPTIONAL addition where it's possible to save him if we take the right steps.  WE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR THIS OPTION AS WELL!  
You can see a flowchart of our propsal here: Thane Story Flowchart

We ARE asking that the romance be fixed to put in what Bioware has admitted they forgot about!


Yeah, I wasn't in charge of Thane, but I see Thane's death situation as one of those things that's the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn't click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

- Patrick Weekes.


Please, constructive replies are welcome, but please no flaming or drive-by posting. Informed responses!

Yes we understand that he said he was dying in the very first conversation, and romanced him anyway. These are the reasons why we expected to have more time with him and why we're unhappy with how he was handled.

Bullet point list:

1. There was no cure, despite CDN mention of Medigel for the lungs, the hanar cure, and Thane's transplant candidacy, mentioned in ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker.
2. Thane was not at peace with his death. He was not prepared to die. He was never destined to die.
3. He did not go out with "a bang," the heroic death that he wanted (if not romanced). A cure would not trivialize his death.
4. There's barely any difference between a friendShep's dialogue and a romanceShep's.
5. There's no shared mission with Thane. The side mission that really should have been his went to... Kasumi??
6. The death scene was impersonal, the same for both friendShep and a romanceShep's.
7. After he died, no one save Kai-Leng mentioned Thane's name again. No chance for Shepard to mourn or talk about him with others, romanced or not.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Each bullet point is explained in detail:

1. There was no cure, despite CDN mention of Medigel for the lungs, the hanar cure, and Thane's transplant candidacy, mentioned in ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker:
Yes, he was ill. We know this. Yes, it was possible he would die. We know this too. HOWEVER, Bioware hinted at several different things that could have extended Thane's life. CDN mentioned medigel for the lungs. The hanar are working on a cure. Thane is eligible for a transplant that would extend his life.
The initial Thane that you meet has turned down a transplant. However, a romanced Thane no longer wants to die. It is NOT implausible that a romanced Thane could be talked into a transplant that would extend his life long enough for a cure to be available.
Thane was never "destined" to die. The writers in ME2 said they weren't sure where they were going to take the character. He could have been cured or not at that point.
Bioware featured several "Cure Thane" movements and used his image as the poster boy for some of the ME3 promotionals.
In the leaked script, there were several options where Thane takes a bullet during the Coup, to stop Udina. In one of the options, he pulls off "A slick move" and stops Udina, and just looks "out of breath."

2. Thane was not at peace with his death. He was not prepared to die. He was not destined to die:
The Thane you first meet is resigned and even eager for his death. He wanted to die doing something worthwhile. However, if your Shepard romanced Thane, you see him opening up. Just before the suicide mission, he comes to Shepard's cabin and confesses how he no longer wants to die. He is afraid of dying, and wants to live. Yet in ME3 when you meet him at the hospital, he is suddenly okay with dying, again, as if all of the development done in ME2 never happened. Romanced Thane's character completely reverses his stance from ME2. Character reversal for no reason is not good writing.


3. He did not go out with "a bang," the heroic death that he wanted (if not romanced). A cure would not trivialize his death:
He's replaced by Kirrhe if you didn't talk to him in the hospital. That's hardly unique. Only if Kirrhe is dead will the salarian councilor die. Way to unique, heroic, memorable death when he can be replaced someone else? The fact that he can be replaced really leaves a bad taste in my mouth for his "heroism".
LT summarized a lot of our feelings quite nicely

Lucky Thirteen wrote...
I feel like the death trivialized Thane. Made him pointless, his only purpose was to die and provide another shock value scene to make people cry. Even then, if you don't have him, another NPC can replace him. That NPC actually gives Shepard War Assets and has a higher level of importance over Thane. Thane's importance is a death scene. He's not even listed as a character in the game's guide. He isn't vital at all and I don't understand why they bothered to bring him back. They might as well have saved themselves the trouble of figuring out how to get his body into a bed, wearing the same cloths from ME2, and had a random NPC try to help Shepard.

Even before the game came out, I said that if he had to die, I'd want him to go out with a bang, but I didn't mean for that to be all. I expected it to be much later in the game, after he had a well laid out story in the game. They wanted a tragic death, fine, but it's not great story telling if you made a character only to die in a cool way. Tragic stories are tragic because people were living before, not sitting and waiting to die with a smile on their face. It's almost demented really.

Yes, the fight scene is very flashy and very much eye-candy. That being said.....
]Why does Shepard+Co just stand there and stare during the entire fight? If you look here: Thane Vs KL, you can see there are multiple points where Shepard and company could have interfered and helped and stopped the freaking fight, but didn't.
To have truly made a difference, his death should have involved him doing something only he can do, and if you didn't hit the right triggers, then whatever it is that he was supposed to do DOESN'T GET DONE.

4. There's barely any difference between a friendShep's dialogue and a romanceShep's:
A romanced Thane has the exact same conversations as a friended Thane, with the exception of a questionable make-out scene. Even when Thane asks romanceShep why she's at the hospital, she says it's to see the VS. There is no option to say that she's there to see the drell she loves. There is no option talk to him about their relationship, about Kolyat, about transplants or life extensions, or about what he's been doing while Shepard was under house arrest. All a romanceShep can ask is about Thane's illness, and the VS.
If you romanced Kaidan in 1, and Thane in 2, Kaidan accuses Shepard of cheating on him, and Shepard gets NO CHANCE to tell him what she thinks of that little statement. Shepard just stands there looking guilty.


5. There's no shared mission with Thane. The side mission that really should have been his went to... Kasumi??:
Thane is the only ME2 squadmember that doesn't get his own side mission. Even Kasumi and Zaeed got specific side missions, even if they didn't join the squad. You'd think that the mission involving the hanar would be a great side mission for Thane since the drell live with the hanar. But nope. You just get cutscenes with Thane that have no interactions to them. You don't even get the sad excuse for a side mission that every other ME2 LI gets.

6. The death scene was impersonal, the same for both friendShep and a romanceShep's:
The phrasing is nearly identical. Shepard gets maybe a couple words, and a siha or two difference. His speech is very touching for a friendShep, but for a romance, Shepard doesn't get an, "I love you" or any tears or even an expression of grief, like Miranda does. Shepard just stares stonily off into the distance.
Also, Thane's lying on the hospital bed....still in his leather outfit...lol? Really they would leave that on? How did they even try to treat him then? Or did they just look at the wound and say, "Nope, he's dead, don't bother"?

7. After he died, no one except Kai-Leng mentions Thane's name again. No chance for Shepard to mourn or talk about him with others, romanced or not:
Absolutely no one ever mentions Thane again until Shepard kills KL. That is the ONLY MENTION of him ever again. Garrus is standing in front of the memorial right afterward, staring at the wall...and all he talks about is the VS andhow it's good to see him/her again. No mention of Thane.
If you semi-flirted with Traynor, the shower-scene is almost right after.
If you go see Kaidan, and fell into the romance triggers, he hits on you right after.
Stay classy, Bioware!

In summary, it's not JUST the fact that he dies. It's the reaction to that death that is pissing us off.
Nearly identical dialogue, and no reaction from crewmates.

Do we want an option for him to live? Many of us do. We know that probably won't happen. But is it really so unreasonable to ask for equal treatment?

Modifié par RShara, 29 juin 2012 - 07:02 .

[giftfish]

@ RShara: Try using some additional text formatting. Bold, underlines, bullets, etc. You've tried to break it up some, but, I think many people are still going to see "wall of text" and skip over your post, which is exactly what you don't want them to do.

You might also preface the post by saying that in contrast to the post title, we aren't asking fo ran exclusive Thane DLC, but for Thane's character treatment to be improved as a larger part of a Romance DLC pack.

[coldwetn0se]

@RShara - very well done, Lady! I might also add the fact that they seemed to have retconned his illness in me3 (wanna make DAMN sure dat boy dies....oh Howdy! *sneer* using a link to Beaniebats post would be great), the fact that they retconned his actual expected length of life. In ME2 he states; "I should be fine for the next 8-12 months..." FINE! (and Dr. Chakwas medical report in LotSB suggests that considering his condition, he is still managing quite well...) Not the "I had 3 months to live, 9 months ago" bs... Fine for 8-12 months doesn't mean that the minute he hits the 12 month marker he falls down dead......and since we meet him in Huerta BEFORE the 12 months are up, he should have had just as much chance of being in good enough condition to have an actual storyline applied to his character. Lastly, themes. Saving/helping Thane with Kepral's is as much of a ME theme as curing the Genophage, and having the Geth help adapt the Quarians. Thane isn't dying of some rare "Sickle Cell Thane" disease....it is the number one health issue amonst his already waning race. So helping him would help the Drell.....Shep and Co. have been doing this sort of thing since the first game. Help large groups of people for all kinds of reasons, and with a variety of problems. Shepard's squaddies have always been what enlightened us to the plights of other races; Tali with losing their homeworld, Wrex (and later Mordin and Grunt) being at the forefront of the Genophage issue........

Anyway, just throwing this stuff out to you. No need to use it if you don't want, and yes, Coldi is harping on the same stuff I've been repeating for the last couple days........wanna share a donut??

[RShara]

Actually, LT had a spreadsheet around here somewhere explaining the length of his life and all that. There wasn't as much retcon as we all thought.

I'll add some underlining and stuff!

[RShara]

Okay I edited my post above. How does it look now?

[coldwetn0se]

RShara wrote...

Actually, LT had a spreadsheet around here somewhere explaining the length of his life and all that. There wasn't as much retcon as we all thought.

I'll add some underlining and stuff!

I too did a timeline breakdown (I do remember LT's post, and I think we may have disagreed on a few things....but some aspects are left up for interpretation....).  And I still see it as a retcon simply because he uses the line about '3months, 9 months ago', which still would have had him under the care of Dr. Chakwas.  Again, if we use the in-game calculator for these games, given by Tali in me3 on the Citadel with Shepard.  Anyway......it all looks good.  Good job!

[utaker1988]

Snicker...donut. Yes please!

Anyway...

Yes he said he should be fine for another 8-12 months which does logically conclude that he won't automatically drop dead on the 8 month or 12 month mark. "Oh look it's exactly 12 months since I made that statement to Shep. Wait! My health is suddenly nosediving at epic proportions! I can't breathe!!!! I am fading!!!" :::falls over dead:::

Or

"Oh look I have less than 24 hours left before that 12 month mark hits. Look! A ninja sword in a sci fi universe! Let me just time my jump perfectly and land on it! Nobody is helping so apparently they aren't going to stop my suicide!!! Bonzaiiiii!!! Yes!! By the time I reach the hospital, have surgery, wait for Shep to show up it will be 12 months exactly"

Shep: Thane...
Thane: Time is short. I have but minutes.
Shep: I didn't give you permission to die.
Thane: You know it's been 12 months since I first told you how much time I had left.
Shep: I recall and yet you are still alive.
Thane: Siha....
(prayer time)
Shep: Thane, I love you.
Kolyat: I don't think he heard that, he passed away while we were speaking.
Shep: Hmmmm....so, what are you going to do now Kolyat?
Kolyat: Where did you go?
Shep: Kolyat! I got thrown out of the room before having time to grieve! Let me in!!!!
Kolyat: Are you hungry Commander?
Shep: Yeah, now that I think of it....
Kolyat: Very well...donut?

They might as well done that, very little thought was given to that whole romanced Thane scene.

[RShara]

Thane's Story Arc

Help monitoring it please, I won't necessarily be able to regularly

Modifié par RShara, 29 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[mythlover20]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I am just going to leave this here, since I think most of you will receive my message by doing this.

For anyone who donated to get a #SaveThane pin from me, my shipment has arrived. It came in kinda late but over this weekend I will work on getting it all prepped and sent out on Monday. Thanks so much guys!

There was a pin campaign??? Dammit. I knew I missed something.

[RShara]

What're the links to the petition site and stuff again? I can add that to the post

[Moira-chan]

mythlover20 wrote...

Squeegee83 wrote...

I am just going to leave this here, since I think most of you will receive my message by doing this.

For anyone who donated to get a #SaveThane pin from me, my shipment has arrived. It came in kinda late but over this weekend I will work on getting it all prepped and sent out on Monday. Thanks so much guys!

There was a pin campaign??? Dammit. I knew I missed something.

go in the group sharli and look in squees donation thread, it's not too late

[mythlover20]

RShara wrote...

Thane's Story Arc

Help monitoring it please, I won't necessarily be able to regularly

Posted there. I think I finally was able to get my point across. It's also something that I'm putting in the essay under the "Player Reactions to Thane's Disease-centric Role in ME3" section. What do you think? Should it go in the essay?

I find it sad that this thread has only been up for half an hour and we already have a troll.

Modifié par mythlover20, 29 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[utaker1988]

Ok, that one has a troll in it. I'm sorry ladies but that thread is going to get buried or locked if that troll keeps getting fed. I am not going to respond or even acknowledge that person. I can't do it, for the sake of keeping some of my sanity and maturity (yeah, I have a little) and for the sake of being taken seriously in regards to Thane and other ME2 LI's, I will not feed that troll.