15439 réponses à ce sujet

[mnomaha]

@Dine...maybe because there are only white people working at bioware? They thought it was funny cuz all those white people are Canadian rednecks? They though they could get away with stereotyping a character because of "artistic integrity"? Although I have yet been unable to really find a way to tie those two words together...but that's just my opinion.

[wildannie]

@DineBoo wrong = straight male choice... so wrong = female gamer (we all know who the SS choices for femshep were really for) If garrus wasn't the ultimate 'bro' he'd have been shafted too. I'm pretty sure I read that there will be a 'romance' with aria in the much hinted at omega dlc... if so its another slap in the face.

[firel]

^if there's an Aria romance Bioware is going to get some poop dropped off at their front door by yours truly. Now I'm all for more LI's in general, but this would only make the difference in straight choices between MShep and FShep even more clear. But knowing them they're going to pull the "Asari are not female!" card. Even if they look like women and refer to themselves as such..
If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, walks like a duck, refers to itself as a duck... then it's a duck, Bioware.

Modifié par firel, 14 septembre 2012 - 07:15 .

[Emeraldfern]

Also add that a Vega romance (idk wether it was Fem-Shep exclusive or not)  was cut according to the game files.

Datamining over at HTL confirms it, it's the same type of datamining (iirc looking through the game's .tlk files) that found the cut Aria dialogue (which may or may not be restored in the Omega DLC) that also found the reference to a Vega romance.

Here's the datamined script for the Vega romance:

http://www.holdtheli...e-16#post-90872

Basically, it's actually a cut dialogue between Shep and Kelly that reveals the cut Vega romance; at some point Kelly (who you could meet up irregardless wether you invited her to your cabin or not in ME2), would reference your LI.
In that dialogue there is a line for Vega.
 
And worse, there was supposed to ba a pre-coup mission for Thane:

http://www.holdtheli...e-11#post-89979

and:

http://www.holdtheli...e-11#post-89987

and:

http://www.holdtheli...e-12#post-90134

It centered around rescuing Kolyat from a human weapons developer named Francis Dwait (who apparantely dabbled with indoctrination devices).

Shep learns from Thane that Kolyat has gone missing, and Thane asks that Shep find/rescue him.
Through a flashback, Thane remembers that Kolyat was investigating Mr Dwait (in order to impress Bailey and prove he was C-Sec material).

Kolyat's investigation caught the attention of Cerberus (who were working with Dwait) and yep, you guessed it, Kolyat got caught by Cerberus. The Dwait mansion is then infiltrated by Shep & Co. Shep rescues Kolyat , and subsequently kills Mr Dwait (It is also revealed that Shep is immune to indoctrination).
 
Since my words fail me at describing my feels about cutting that mission and Vega's romance:

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

*Double table-flip*

Still, I'd vastly prefer a "Find Kepral Syndrome Cure/Treatment on Kahje" mission over a "Rescue Kolyat ver 2.0" mission, but...Gah! Why? Why was it cut? *Fumes*

[firel]

Ugh, no words. It's obvious they just don't give two sh*ts about their female players.
I'mma post that on the Tumblr, hope you don't mind.

[Emeraldfern]

Just keep the links otherwise it may get dismissed as "made-up".

The variable ids are kept in the datamining posts (the ones I linked) in order to verfy their authencity.

Note, what I posted aren't the only things that were cut naturally, (heck there was content relating to Kal'Reegar and Emily Wong too) and it's nigh impossible to tell when this content was cut.

So maybe add the above tidbits too in order to avoid confusion.

[firel]

Yep, it's all there. Thanks for the info!

[Twilight_Princess]

Emeraldfern wrote...

Also add that a Vega romance (idk wether it was Fem-Shep exclusive or not)  was cut according to the game files.

Datamining over at HTL confirms it, it's the same type of datamining (iirc looking through the game's .tlk files) that found the cut Aria dialogue (which may or may not be restored in the Omega DLC) that also found the reference to a Vega romance.

Here's the datamined script for the Vega romance:

http://www.holdtheli...e-16#post-90872

Basically, it's actually a cut dialogue between Shep and Kelly that reveals the cut Vega romance; at some point Kelly (who you could meet up irregardless wether you invited her to your cabin or not in ME2), would reference your LI.
In that dialogue there is a line for Vega.
 
And worse, there was supposed to ba a pre-coup mission for Thane:

http://www.holdtheli...e-11#post-89979

and:

http://www.holdtheli...e-11#post-89987

and:

http://www.holdtheli...e-12#post-90134

It centered around rescuing Kolyat from a human weapons developer named Francis Dwait (who apparantely dabbled with indoctrination devices).

Shep learns from Thane that Kolyat has gone missing, and Thane asks that Shep find/rescue him.
Through a flashback, Thane remembers that Kolyat was investigating Mr Dwait (in order to impress Bailey and prove he was C-Sec material).

Kolyat's investigation caught the attention of Cerberus (who were working with Dwait) and yep, you guessed it, Kolyat got caught by Cerberus. The Dwait mansion is then infiltrated by Shep & Co. Shep rescues Kolyat , and subsequently kills Mr Dwait (It is also revealed that Shep is immune to indoctrination).
 
Since my words fail me at describing my feels about cutting that mission and Vega's romance:

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

*Double table-flip*

Still, I'd vastly prefer a "Find Kepral Syndrome Cure/Treatment on Kahje" mission over a "Rescue Kolyat ver 2.0" mission, but...Gah! Why? Why was it cut? *Fumes*

Hey guys how are things-

*reads post*

0_0 wait.....there actually WAS a vega romance AND  a thane mission??????? And they were CUT?????



God dammit! I'm trying to LIKE this game but I keep finding new reasons to hate it!!! So instead of an actual romance like they planned, bioware decided it would be better to force all paragon femsheps to be flirty with vega with no result what so ever?  Fan-f***ing-tastic. Heres a novel idea how about instead of axing two male options maybe they should have just ADDED one! That would have gone down a LOT better with the ladies don't you think?

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 14 septembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[Emeraldfern]

IKR?

There's a crapola of content that was cut. And many times it's WTF why was X cut?

(I mean sure, ME1 & ME2 had content cut too, but it made sense most of the time unlike ME3)

It's just...I have no idea why tbh. Sure, a lot of the script is rough but still, not all of the concepts were necessarily bad at all.

(The "Kolyat Rescue Mission Ver. 2.0 is "ok" but it's not near what I was expecting tbh)

*Still Fuming*

[Vlk3]

The dialog in that cut content sounds...poor. And I'd prefer something about hanar&drell instead of Cerberus all the time. And of course some treatments, not "I need to see Kolyat before I die". They really didn't even try...

And as for James Vega romance- I'd never romance him with any of my Shepards, so not satisfying.

[Emeraldfern]

Vlk3 wrote...

The dialog in that cut content sounds...poor. And I'd prefer something about hanar&drell instead of Cerberus all the time. And of course some treatments, not "I need to see Kolyat before I die". They really didn't even try...

And as for James Vega romance- I'd never romance him with any of my Shepards, so not satisfying.

I agree with what you're saying. Hanar/Drell plot > Kolyat rescue plot. And the dialgoue *sigh* yep, not good imo either.

As for Vega, I'd personally be cool if Vega was an LI (though I'd rather have Javik tbh), but not if he replaced another LI.
Additional choice? Yep. Replacement? No.

[DineBoo]

Regarding James as an LI, I didn't want him to replace Thane or Jacob, but it would have at least soothed some of my rage if they took Thane/Jacob away. Same with having Garrus available for non import Shepards. It wouldn't make up for taking away choice but at least femShep would have some straight options and it didn't look like BW was pushing her to be canonicly lesbian.

And I would have taken Javik over James too though. For the empire!

@HyruleGal: Yeah, I wanted to love this game, and I almost did by romancing Garrus. But too much ugly stuff has come out. For instance, now I'm doing runs for science. Taking out Thane and Jacob don't impact the story at all, and I've found I'd rather have them dead than subject them to the treatment ME3 gave them.

Doing a broShep for science (it's hard...Meer is so boring to me, no offense to his fans) and I'm already seeing differences. Kaidan doesn't look as clingy as he does with femShep. And Cortez romance, while it seems weird he got over his husband so fast, is tons better than Sam's simply for the fact they don't start shagging in the shuttle bay at the first opportunity.

And I've even messed around with Liara for science. I got so ticked off I couldn't finish Mars. People talk about how her romance isn't really different from unromanced, and it's probably true, but she gets tons of fluff that I never saw with a Garrus/Kaidan playthrough. The romance Liara scene at Mars seemed so awkward with the third party member standing there, yet it contains more that what romanced Garrus did on Manae.

And if Aria's getting a romance with the Omega DLC I'll flip tables for you guys. I like Aria, but it sucks that she gets added making her another lesbian choice for femShep. It just looks like what romance options that get added now will have to go for both bro and femShep and that sort of sucks.

Modifié par DineBoo, 14 septembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[giftfish]

I wonder something.

I wonder how much content was cut so that it can be reworked into future DLC for the sole purpose of being able to make more money.

I mean, ME3 is easily the shortest of all the games; there was really no reason to cut so much content.

The way I see it, they cut content for 3 reasons:

1. Deadlines -- which we know BW wasn't given *nearly* enough Dev Time for ME3. This might have something to do with EA's financial situation right now and being up for sale -- they wanted ME3 released ASAP.

2. Quality Control -- Drew Karpyshyn was moved to TOR, they lost Chris L'Etoile, and I forget who else. Maybe the staff just wasn't doing as good of a job getting their "heads" in the material.

3. Profits -- If they give us less in the vanilla game, and just move more of that content to DLCs, and yet charge the same amount for the vanilla game, then they make way more money. Again, likely having to do with EA's greed, in my book.  Hello, multiplayer?

Unfortunately, until if and when BW is owned by a different company, we'll never know. BW won't bite the hand that feeds them, and EA will never provide an honest answer.

Modifié par giftfish, 14 septembre 2012 - 03:17 .

[DineBoo]

@mnomaha: Forgot to reply to this, but you would think they would have one person of color on the BW staff somewhere that could have said "Hey, this could be offensive to POC in the US."

Of course, they could have been told and BW did the Jacob plot anyway.

And I really feel they should have made everyone Shepard sexual. I know people will cry it doesn't happen this way in RL, but so what. Space magic doesn't happen either. This way femShep wouldn't have gotten so shafted in her choices.

[giftfish]

DineBoo wrote...

@mnomaha: Forgot to reply to this, but you would think they would have one person of color on the BW staff somewhere that could have said "Hey, this could be offensive to POC in the US.".

They are extremely short on women last time I checked, as well, and it shows in their product.  There only seem to be a couple on the entire ME team, and only 1 of the writers if I remember correctly.

It's pretty much a big boys club, and it very much comes across in their games.  Often FemShep's lines are not what a woman would say in the situation -- but they do feel appropriate for a man.

Apparently, Kaidan is written by a women, which I certainly could have guessed -- he's the strong-sensitive type.  They need much more female input over there on plot, romance, and everything.  It will only serve to strengthen the realism in their games.  It's not a man's world.  Anymore.

Not to mention, If they had a 50/50 ratio, there is no way the endings would have been released as they were -- most women would have been like.....wtf is THAT?  There is also no way that FemShep would have ended up without any new heterosexual romance options for ME3 (assuming Kaidan is dead).

I find their lack of females...disturbing.

Modifié par giftfish, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[wildannie]

The lack of women is disturbing, it is not like they can argue that they have the best team for the job because the results strongly suggest otherwise, it is painfully unbalanced.

[Emeraldfern]

There are more women writers on the team than one, the correct number escapes me atm, but I do know that it's not just one.

What I definitely don't know is when the content was cut (i.e how early on in development) it's practically impossible to tell.

The only clue is that certain content that was cut has more text than others, that might be an indication that some of what was cut had gone further in development than other plans. As far as I know, there are for instance, no other assets (besides text) present in the gamefiles.

[JECW]

If this omega dlc happens and they make a romance for Aria I will be more than a little pissed. They need to fix the mess they made with the ME2 LI's. Especially Thane and Jacob. Instead of doing that they want make another LI. What are they thinking at that company?

[giftfish]

Emeraldfern wrote...

There are more women writers on the team than one, the correct number escapes me atm, but I do know that it's not just one.

What I definitely don't know is when the content was cut (i.e how early on in development) it's practically impossible to tell.

The only clue is that certain content that was cut has more text than others, that might be an indication that some of what was cut had gone further in development than other plans. As far as I know, there are for instance, no other assets (besides text) present in the gamefiles.

Yeah, I  was trying to verify that, but basically you need to watch the credits to see the names of all the writers.  Wikipedia only lists Casey and Mac as Lead Writers, for example.

My point, however, that the Mass Effect team and BioWare as a business, though, has predominantly male employees -- depsite there being more and more females out there that are trying to get into the gaming industry.

[Emeraldfern]

Yeah that's true. T'is a shame :/

They're not the only ones in that regard though.
The videogame industry as a whole has this problem, naturally that doesn't mean that things can't get better in that regard, because they can. The question is how it can be remedied.

The obvious answer (and probably the root of the problem) is to change the attitude towards female gamers, i.e not dismissing them as less important, or that they are not as "good" as male gamers, thatt they can't enjoy certain types of content, etc.

By that extent, women who work in this industry aren't numerous yet.
(I hope I'm going to count as at least one number more of a woman working in that industry someday)

Of course, the attitude towards female gamers/developers is an iceberg tip of a greater problem, namely the view of women as a whole in our society, but that doesn't mean things can't get better.
It can. And changing the attitude/policies are the first steps.

Oh boy...I went OT there...my bad!

[Roxy]

Vlk3 wrote...

The dialog in that cut content sounds...poor. And I'd prefer something about hanar&drell instead of Cerberus all the time. And of course some treatments, not "I need to see Kolyat before I die". They really didn't even try...

And as for James Vega romance- I'd never romance him with any of my Shepards, so not satisfying.

Yes,yes I agree!

I don't want a misssion to save Kolyat (no offense) I want a mission to where I can get a cure for the Drell,for Thane ....they didn't try,it seems they don't even give a damn about the female players at all!


And don't get me wrong I like James but to have him as a LI....not interested...and if they did have him as one that's not gonna settle with me especially after taking Thane and Jacob away from us without our authority...Oh and one hetero LI is not gonna cut it at all!


I was hoping for some good if not mediocre news today.......nah not happening today!




EDIT: And if they do add Aria as LI,no worries girls,I'll be flipping tables with you all too!

Modifié par Roxy, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:51 .

[Roxy]

Sorry double post

Modifié par Roxy, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:50 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

mnomaha wrote...
@Dine...maybe because there are only white people working at bioware? They thought it was funny cuz all those white people are Canadian rednecks? They though they could get away with stereotyping a character because of "artistic integrity"? Although I have yet been unable to really find a way to tie those two words together...but that's just my opinion.

I know no one's happy with the current state of the ME2 LIs, but I highly doubt the intent with Jacob was anything quite so malicious.  I think it's far more likely that he was overlooked and therefore shoehorned into a sub-par plot arc.  We don't know the thought process behind ME3 for the writers or developers, and assuming they were being intentionally racist is a bit of a stretch, no? 

Roxy wrote...
I don't want a misssion to save Kolyat (no offense) I want a mission to where I can get a cure for the Drell,for Thane ....they didn't try,it seems they don't even give a damn about the female players at all!

 

The idea of a mission to save Kolyat reminds of Miranda's ME3 mission--a lazy copy-paste redo of their ME2 loyalty missions.  Characters grew and changed over the course of ME2 and ME3; we shouldn't have to rehash stuff we already dealt with in ME2.  Give Miri a Cerberus infiltration mission.  Let us try and cure Thane.

As for the whole schtick with female players, again, I'd say it's a stretch to assume anything deliberate on the part of the devs.  I doubt BioWare are cackling up in Edmonton trying to figure out how to best screw over demographics of their customers.  It's more likely that it's just a popularity contest.  You can pretty much draw a direct correlation between the popularity of a character/vocal-ness of their fans, and the amount of screen time the character got in ME3.

And to be fair to BioWare, there are a lot more women on the Dragon Age team, and it shows.  So it's a step in the right direction.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 14 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[Roxy]

@Sable Rhapsody I get what your saying but...

It doesn't matter if it's a populaity contest you don't screw over the fans....they just all of a sudden thought it's okay to take away 2 of femsheps LI's just because Jacob was least liked?...and what Thane had an illness? That is just so wrong....especially when they hinted about a lung transplant in ME 2 and why the hell strereotype Jacob as a cheater,he doesn't seem that way in ME2!

Modifié par Roxy, 14 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[DineBoo]

I know no one's happy with the current state of the ME2 LIs, but I highly doubt the intent with Jacob was anything quite so malicious. I think it's far more likely that he was overlooked and therefore shoehorned into a sub-par plot arc. We don't know the thought process behind ME3 for the writers or developers, and assuming they were being intentionally racist is a bit of a stretch, no?

I'm not so sure.

It's bad enough that Jacob cheated. If they left it there it might have passed the stink test because anyone could cheat. But getting Brynn pregnant too? And Brynn knowing that Jacob was with femShep and went after him anyway? That's just playing to stereotypes.

If Jacob had been any other race they might have gotten away with it. But him being the only other black guy character other than Anderson? Extreme side eye.

I'm sure BW is familiar with race stereotypes. And being Canadien based is no excuse. The baby mama drama stereotype is still very prevalent. It's not like it's died off recently. I'm surprised and saddened that no one thought "Hey, this might be bad to our identifiable black character."

And again why take the only straight up guy in the series and turn him into a cheating douche? If Jack ran off with a hot shot biotic I could by it since she has that type of history. But Jacob? Nope. And anyone saying that Jacob was a cheat in ME2 clearly didn't play the game.

::sigh:: Sorry for the OT rant, Thane folks.

ETA: Oh and popularity shouldn't determine which characters get cut. Especially LIs. And if Jacob being a cheating douche was that foreseeable, players needed clues in ME2 so they can make an informed choice. Concrete, lights flashing type clues. Not some poorly worded comment about Mirinda.

Modifié par DineBoo, 14 septembre 2012 - 08:14 .