Those people who can't see past his illness will never know what a wonderful character Thane really is. It's their lose I guess.
Thane Thread 'It's difficult. All things worth keeping are.' Spoilers will be neck-snapped.
Débuté par
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
, juin 13 2011 07:47
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#2252
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 12:17
Guest_Mei Mei_*
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Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
The difference between developing characters in a novel, and developing them in a computer games is massive, you don't nearly have the amount of words you can use in a book to describe someone in a computer game. So how they have managed to make Thane such a fascinating character is incredible.
Show not tell. The great thing about videogames is we can see the behavior not just synthesize it through our own perceptions. Thane walks and talks. Literally. Yet its the delivery that is what is so fasinating. Sanderson and George R.R. Martin are two authors I know that have word counts above 200,000 for their books. Which, in of itself, is staggering. Yet, when you read them, you fly through the descriptions simply because of how they write them. There are others, Jim Butcher, David Weber who do not go into that detail and yet can still convey the world of their characters.
Different formats all doing the same thing. Creating and emotional investment in a character and attributing not only our own chracteristics but lifes realities on to them. Feeling as if we know these characters, as if we can sit down with them and have a discussion. That is the goal. To feel connected and wonder what will happen to this being. I think the writers at Bioware achieved this with Thane with his few lines but its his presence that says so much more.
JECWSU wrote...
Those people who can't see past his illness will never know what a wonderful character Thane really is. It's their lose I guess.
Indeed. He is written off as death defining his character. Knowing what I know, death scares people. People don't know how to react to an individual who is grieving either from their own death or any loss. Its personal and tragic. It brings out our most basic instinct and that is to avoid. To see others in pain is painful to watch. Yet, Thane isn't in pain, he isn't wallowing or being "emo" as so many identify him as. Rather he is facing his death. He is alive until the moment he dies. He is going through the grief cycle and it makes sense.
In fact, his suicide related behaviors are all connected to his facing his mortality. Its not uncommon for hospice patients to say they wish they would die or they want the process to "just get it over with." Many express that desire to die. Its a part of the grief process. As is in seeking reconnection with loved ones and leaving behind a legacy in others. Thane did each of these as part of his dying process. Yet, he is a being who looks at his own demise, unflinchingly and opening with Shepard. Accepting a last moments respite in his relationship with Shepard.
Its a tragic love story but no more tragic than Romeo and Juliette or Othello. In fact, it is very similiar in a few respects. Beautifil but sad.
Modifié par Mei Mei, 17 octobre 2011 - 12:25 .
#2253
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 01:02
Fiery Phoenix
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One thing I would really like to know is whether Thane represents the norm for hospice patients. Do terminally ill people generally share the same beliefs and wishes? Do these beliefs and wishes grow more and more on them as they approach the inevitable?
It makes the curious in me wonder. Thane opened my eyes to something I was never really aware of, and I can't help but feel very thankful.
It makes the curious in me wonder. Thane opened my eyes to something I was never really aware of, and I can't help but feel very thankful.
#2254
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 02:49
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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In my experience, terminally ill individuals all have a common wish to not 'expire slowly, beeping away in a hospital bed.' So Thane is not unique in that view.
As for his religious beliefs, I would say that those on their death bed will often turn to religion, but Thane is unique in that he has already had those same religious beliefs.
And yes Mei Mei, with video games there is the visual connection as well. What particularly springs to mind is the conversation with Mouse about chocolate. (And I have found how to bring up the option JECSWU, you ignore the renegade interrupts to punch Mouse, but you take the left renegade option at one point, I have a screenie which I will find now for you.)
Mouse recognises the look of loss in Thane's eyes, and he mentions how he notices that Thane's eyes always have the same look when he talks about his son. Then he says how Kolyat's eyes looked exactly the same when he talked about his father.
That conversation was so powerful, it is a shame it is a relatively 'hidden path.' I will look through my many many screenies now to find it xD
As for his religious beliefs, I would say that those on their death bed will often turn to religion, but Thane is unique in that he has already had those same religious beliefs.
And yes Mei Mei, with video games there is the visual connection as well. What particularly springs to mind is the conversation with Mouse about chocolate. (And I have found how to bring up the option JECSWU, you ignore the renegade interrupts to punch Mouse, but you take the left renegade option at one point, I have a screenie which I will find now for you.)
Mouse recognises the look of loss in Thane's eyes, and he mentions how he notices that Thane's eyes always have the same look when he talks about his son. Then he says how Kolyat's eyes looked exactly the same when he talked about his father.
That conversation was so powerful, it is a shame it is a relatively 'hidden path.' I will look through my many many screenies now to find it xD
#2255
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 02:55
Fiery Phoenix
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I absolutely adore the conversation with Mouse. There's so much to it and there are multiple ways it can go, all of which are remarkably different from one another. If you pick the Paragon (i.e. upper-right) option, Thane says the beautiful line about Earth:
"Earth. The lights of a home you've never seen. Half-remembered fairy tales from your mother..."
<3
"Earth. The lights of a home you've never seen. Half-remembered fairy tales from your mother..."
<3
#2256
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:03
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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Which is why we will have to take him to the deserts of Earth in ME3!
#2257
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:05
JECWSU
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Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
And yes Mei Mei, with video games there is the visual connection as well. What particularly springs to mind is the conversation with Mouse about chocolate. (And I have found how to bring up the option JECSWU, you ignore the renegade interrupts to punch Mouse, but you take the left renegade option at one point, I have a screenie which I will find now for you.)
Mouse recognises the look of loss in Thane's eyes, and he mentions how he notices that Thane's eyes always have the same look when he talks about his son. Then he says how Kolyat's eyes looked exactly the same when he talked about his father.
That conversation was so powerful, it is a shame it is a relatively 'hidden path.' I will look through my many many screenies now to find it xD
Thanks Tasha. I still can't seem to get that chocolate conversation. I guess I keep missing it.
I also have never gotten the conversation with mouse about the look in Thane's eyes. When does that happen?
#2258
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:23
Lucky Thirteen
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The Chocolate conversation is part of one of the renegade options.
Makes me sad I've got to miss out on these little things about Thane and Kolyat's and Mouse's relationship just because I prefer paragon.
Makes me sad I've got to miss out on these little things about Thane and Kolyat's and Mouse's relationship just because I prefer paragon.
#2259
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:36
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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Ok then JECSWU, I am afraid that these are the only screenies I took of the conversation, but most of it is there. The part about Thane's eyes follow on from the 'chocolate conversation.' If you have a save for before Thane's LM then maybe you can play it through now?
Anyway, the screenies you have waited so long for!
Anyway, the screenies you have waited so long for!
#2260
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:41
Fiery Phoenix
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This one was taken by me, during the chocolate convo:
#2261
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:47
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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Go for it!Fiery Phoenix wrote...
I'm so tempted to make this my signature...Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
You discover his philosophies, his family values, his religious beliefs, his interpretation of life and, as Mei Mei said, his personal journey and the conflict he is faced with. All in such a small amount of dialogue.
And yet, there are still many who cannot see past his Keprel's Syndrome...
#2262
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:50
Fiery Phoenix
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I might do, at some point. It's too bad this forum allows so little signature space. Other forums I've been to had much more signature space liberty.
#2263
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 03:55
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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Exactly, other forums there is about 5 times as much space as there is here!
Also, while sifting through my hundreds of screenies, I found the one that is the namesake of our thread. Think I will put it in the OP now.
Also, while sifting through my hundreds of screenies, I found the one that is the namesake of our thread. Think I will put it in the OP now.
#2264
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 04:02
JECWSU
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Lucky Thirteen wrote...
Makes me sad I've got to miss out on these little things about Thane and Kolyat's and Mouse's relationship just because I prefer paragon.
Very true.
I had no idea about the chocolate conversation, or that mouse talks about how sad Thane looks when he talked about his son. Makes me wonder if I'm missing out on any other conversations.
#2265
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 04:09
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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I think by now, we would have discovered them if there were anymore. And this was my renegon playthrough, so I took a lot of renegade options here. Not when talking to Thane or other squadmates though. Some of the things Shepard can say to the crew are really cruel.
#2266
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 04:18
JECWSU
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That's why I have a hard time doing a renegade playthrough. Shepard can be worse than cruel. She just comes across as a nasty human being sometimes. If you fail Thanes loyalty mission some of the things she says are just awful. It's sad enough without her heartless comments.
Pushing that guy out the window, or punching that reporter can be fun though. Shepards actions can be fun, but some of her words are cruel. Although I think pushing mouse and stepping on his throat was pretty bad.
Pushing that guy out the window, or punching that reporter can be fun though. Shepards actions can be fun, but some of her words are cruel. Although I think pushing mouse and stepping on his throat was pretty bad.
#2267
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 09:35
PauseforEffect
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It's amazing how disciplined Thane is. Most people I know would have backhanded Shepard for some of the renegade comments. Especially when they're confiding something personal like when Thane admitted he had a family and was requesting help finding his son.
#2268
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 10:03
Cosmochyck
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I'm trying to do a full Renegade PT right now, and it is SO hard! I have Paragon points as well - just can't be miserable too much - we'll see how it turns out. It's not my "official" PT so I'm not too worried.
#2269
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 10:07
Guest_Mei Mei_*
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PrimalEden wrote...
It's amazing how disciplined Thane is. Most people I know would have backhanded Shepard for some of the renegade comments. Especially when they're confiding something personal like when Thane admitted he had a family and was requesting help finding his son.
Shepard as a renegade is painful. She has some really good lines though. Full of snark and witt. She can flay you alive and leave you quaking in fear.
I like her.
#2270
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 10:11
Verly
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I've decided to play a renegade that is not racist. She is good to her crew and team, but random people can watch out. I don't see a reason to put down the people on her ship. I wouldn't be able to play a full on renegade. It's hard enough with my full on paragon not to hit that red button at all. lol. I wanted to blow up that Krogan so bad. lol, it did net me a few points not to though.
#2271
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 10:57
Tasha vas Nar Rayya
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Pretty much what I did with my Shepard. She is good to her crew, but to anyone else she will gun them down without mercy. But the renegade lines to Thane are nasty. So are some of the ones to Jack actually. But the worst ones are towards Tali in ME1, pick the renegade lines with her in ME1, and you treat her like s***. Seriously... It is awful.
#2272
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 03:05
PauseforEffect
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Mei Mei wrote...
Shepard as a renegade is painful. She has some really good lines though. Full of snark and witt. She can flay you alive and leave you quaking in fear.
I like her.
It does work very well in small doses.
Thane's always been a great balance between paragon and renegade. Speaks softly like a paragon, shoots like a renegade.
#2273
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 03:33
Fiery Phoenix
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My first FemShep is a Renegade. It's hilarious playing Renegade in ME2. This video says it all. ![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
I definitely agree Thane is neither Paragon nor Renegade. He's always struck me as the exact middle, and that's a big plus in my books.
I definitely agree Thane is neither Paragon nor Renegade. He's always struck me as the exact middle, and that's a big plus in my books.
Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:38 .
#2274
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 03:43
JECWSU
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I always have a hard time with renegade. I can do some renegade actions, but some of the things Shepard says if you pick renegade are awful. I myself always saw Thane as a bit more paragon then complete renegade, but I do think he fits well with both.
#2275
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 04:01
disconnect7
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I played as a full renegade on my ME1 and ME2 Insanity PT's, I wasn't playing for story and just for the combat so I figured why the hell not. Those are definitely 2 PT's that are not going to be loaded into ME2 or 3! Renegade Shep can be awful to the squad and crew; I feel she should be an exemplary commanding officer, but also a fierce fighter on the battlefield.
I love that video of all the different renegade lines-"I'll haul Joker's crippled ass out of here" OH Shepard!
I have to say, Jennifer Hale delivers the renegade lines perfectly-"What sound will you make when you hit the ground? Think you'll hear it before you die?"
I love that video of all the different renegade lines-"I'll haul Joker's crippled ass out of here" OH Shepard!
I have to say, Jennifer Hale delivers the renegade lines perfectly-"What sound will you make when you hit the ground? Think you'll hear it before you die?"
