Rifneno wrote...
RangerSG wrote...
How to side with the Templars:
1) Stop inserting modern morality into the discussion, because your character probably doesn't share any of it anyway.
2) You've seen your mother killed by vilest necromancy and blood magic--with the CLEAR support of the Circle, and you can make a fair guess Orsino by the signature.
3) You see blood mages escaping the Circle 'everywhere.'
4) It's a fair assumption that Orsino is not doing his duty as First Enchanter, and has aided and abetted murder previously. Given that, it's fairly logical to arrive at a conclusion the Circle is corrupt, whether or not they're guilty for *this* particular crime.
1) Should we also pretend we think menstruating women are being possessed by the devil? Yes, they really thought that at one point. There's a reason why people use modern mentalities. Because ancient ones were retarded.
2) LOL, no. There's no "CLEAR" indication he was supported by the Circle. There's evidence he was supported by ONE MAN, Orsino.
3a) You see only criminals, because law-abiding mages aren't escaping. Judging mages by a bunch of apostates is like... well, judging any population only by its criminals. Ridiculous.
3b) Hawke is on a predetermined course designed for a combat-based video game. Of course s/he'll run across a lot of blood mages. Hawke also runs across hordes of dragons and they're so rare people thought they were frickin' extinct.
4a) By that logic, if the president/king/otherwise ruler of a country is corrupt (which is to say, every country ever), you should bombard its major cities with nuclear weapons.
4b) First you want to go all RP and think like a troglodyte, now you must want to metagame. Unless you think Orsino is the only person in the Free Marches' largest city whose name begins with the letter "O" and can obtain some books. That's like finding a man with a gunshot wound in Las Vegas, and upon hearing his last words "The killer was T--*gasp*" you immediately think "Oh my GOD! Donald Trump killed this man!"TJPags wrote...
Wanna make a comparison between populations of a city like, say, New York here in 2011, and a village in Thedas in whatever damn year that was?
Ever hear about relative terms?
A single mage killing 70 people in relatively poorly populated areas of a relatively poorly populated world is, to me, pretty equivelant to killing 1/4 of the people in WW2 HIroshima.
Bull. If they were "equivalent to nuclear weapons" then they'd have to be able to demolish major cities. A single mage would have to be able to do as much damage as we see to Denerim at the end of DAO, and even that would be a very iffy comparison. Trying to get off the stupid analogy by saying "well it only means tiny nukes, used in very sparsely populated areas, in relative to my guess of population size, and only counting causalities not structural damage." The last is an important note of course. Demons don't really destroy buildings, whereas in Nagasaki multi-story brick buildings a mile from ground zero were, and I quote, "completely demolished." Naturally the damage is worse the closer to the explosion, the core of which "instantaneously reached several million degrees centigrade." Oh yeah, we've totally seen mages do something like that.But hey, keep up the rhtoric to prove your position that mages must be allowed unrestricted freedoms to do whatever they wish - such as, blowing up Chantries full of people.
And you keep up your campaign of lies like "people who disagree with my absurd analogies think mages should be able to blow up buildings." No really. It helps a lot when you blatantly lie and discredit yourself like that.
1) Your CHARACTER does not have access to them, given the setting, however. Which was my point. And of course, I could cherry pick from modern sensibility as well. The idea that "tolerance" is to be elevated above objective truth, for instance. And if one asserts there is no objective truth, they've made a truth statement, and thus negated their own argument. We don't have a monopoly on sound thinking, and it's hubris to assume we do.
2) Orsino is the First Enchanter, responsible for discipline and leadership of Tower Mages, a task he utterly fails in. He is the face of the Kirkwell Circle, and that cannot be denied. So if he is guilty, the Circle is guilty with him. And given your consistent encounters with corrupt Circle Mages, there's no reason to believe the Circle under Orsino is capable of functioning as it ought to. And as for your attempt to say in point 4 the "O" could be anyone, No, the letter clearly states Quintan's research is getting Circle resources and books only someone *important* in the Circle could provide. How many others have names beginning with "O"? His guilt is a logical inference even before he confirms it.
3) The criminals are being harbored and abetted by the leaders of the Circle. Ignoring that is like saying a criminal regime that sponsers terrorist cells is not to be held responsible for the actions of their surrogates. That's nonsense. And the mages of the circle are not innocent civilians. They're weapons in the war, all of them. And the fact that there may be honest soldiers in an enemy army does not obviate a soldier's duty. Not to mention even as Cullen states, Annulment can always be mitigated in the event if circumstances provide proof of innocence in a particular mage or group of mages.
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