2249 réponses à ce sujet

[RPGmom28]

I find it very surprising. I liked him instinctively, so much that when he asked my Shepard the very first time, "Do you trust me?" she replied, "You're a good man, Jacob. But you might be working for the wrong people."

[flemm]

There isn't a facepalm bigger enough to express how I feel about the audiences reaction to Jacob.

It's interesting how these things work. I admit, on my first playthroughs of ME2, I stopped using Jacob on missions pretty early on. I kept talking to him, but I talk to everybody.
 
I retain some affection for him (and hope he has his moment to shine in ME3), but I wasn't especially surprised to learn that he isn't considered a popular or successful character. I'm not sure what it is exactly.

He's basically a good guy, but his manner is off-putting. Perhaps not the best combination for a character who is supposed to be the relatable every-man. He also doesn't have a very strong agenda or point of view.

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[ADLegend21]

I like how he has so much venom in his voice when he talks about joining Cerberus:

"When Colony's go missing, we don't requisition a team to write a report about what we should do, we just go and find out"

It shows me he's not blind and can make decisions for himself. I love that in video game characters!

[KingNothing125]

If your FemShep isn't keen on getting down with Jacob, her consistently flirty attitude towards him is kind of odd.

But on the other hand, if your FemShep does have the hots for him (like my first FemShep did), then the dialogue seems quite natural and pretty endearing, in fact. I specifically remember when Shep and Jacob were talking about what happened after Shep died, and the Alliance used her for recruiting...

"You were the human ideal for like 6 months, before they replaced you with a composite... guess you didn't focus test right."

And Shep can respond something like "So you think I'm perfect?"

And Jacob gets all flustered. It's nice.

I think Jacob's romance builds more naturally than Garrus's... where you basically just act professional towards each other until Shep gets the option to blurt out "hey cool story about gettin' bizzay that one time, we could do that too!" Awkward.

[zukuto]

I always liked having Jacob around in the game. Him and Shepard know how to focus on the bigger picture. I just wish that femshep didn't constantly sound like she was flirting with him...

[Sepewrath]

flemm wrote...

There isn't a facepalm bigger enough to express how I feel about the audiences reaction to Jacob.

It's interesting how these things work. I admit, on my first playthroughs of ME2, I stopped using Jacob on missions pretty early on. I kept talking to him, but I talk to everybody.
 
I retain some affection for him (and hope he has his moment to shine in ME3), but I wasn't especially surprised to learn that he isn't considered a popular or successful character. I'm not sure what it is exactly.

He's basically a good guy, but his manner is off-putting. Perhaps not the best combination for a character who is supposed to be the relatable every-man. He also doesn't have a very strong agenda or point of view.

What I find interesting about Jacob, is how he seems to have been designed as the anti Kaidan. The two biggest things I see about Kaidan is of course whining and the fact, that he is not really buddy buddy with Shepard. Which is strange, given he tells you his whole life story, I wouldn't do that with someone who was my bff lol. Then here's Jacob, giving out bro hugs and talking about spilling drinks, is more animated than Kaidan, but doesn't jump out there, like say Ashley.

Kaidan like I says, tell you his whole downer life story, talking about the girl he liked and all that stuff. Jacob, glosses over these things, people don't want to hear it right? That's what they said about Kaidan. You bring up Miranda, he brushes it off, his father, brushes it off, has good lines, like wetting yourself in dark pants; people should like him right? No they hate him lol, its hilarious. I want to say people are racist, at least then, it would make sense

[flemm]

I want to say people are racist, at least then, it would make sense

Well, it's always a possibility, I guess. Or we could put it down to cultural norms and expectations, which is a related but perhaps not identical issue. People want to spend time with other people they are comfortable with. There's a reason why the default protagonist is a white guy, etc. I certainly wouldn't rule out something like that as a factor, without necessarily implicating racism in the strong sense.

I do think, though, that Jacob would have worked better if he had been more friendly from the start. Not necessarily spilling his guts about his problems, but just ready to talk to Shepard, make him feel at home, hang out, tell war stories, etc.

It feels like that's the role he was designed to play, especially considering his scepticism towards Cerberus. But he tends to rebuff you early on when you just want to talk. That was a mistake, I think.

I also think that his insecurities about command could have been addressed early on, which would have set the stage for his loyalty mission. It would be natural for this to come up in conversation with Shepard, given that Shepard is supposed to be such a renowned leader. Then, in the SM, the writers could have emphasized his desire to lead the fire teams. So there would be a stronger payoff there. I feel like there's a strong character arc built around Jacob's loyalty mission that never really materializes. 

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 05:15 .

[KingNothing125]

I dunno what people's problem with Jacob is. I think he's a cool guy, and it's definitely nice to have someone on the ship who's mentally well-adjusted and doesn't really have a sob story to tell.

But I think he was pretty up front and friendly right from the moment you meet him. You don't go 2 minutes past coming back to life before he's offering to fill you in on stuff and asking you to trust him. Then once on board the Normandy, he does hang out and tell you war stories in the first or second conversation you have with him.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Jacobs cool with me. Plus he's black! All the more reason to like 'em.

[jeweledleah]

you know, some of us like both Kaidan and Jacob and its kinda sad to see disparaging comments about either one of them.. you know how Jacob ended up so closed in right? because a human male cannot say a pip about his personal life, even if he's over the whole thing and he's telling you because you asked and because it illustrates a larger point he's trying to make - without being labeled a whiner. you asked!

Jacob does open up a tiny bit, if you push him just right, further into a romance, but he keeps turning things around on Shepard. which would be great in real life, since people looove talking about themselves, but when it comes to playing a game, - they want the characters to entertain them. they want to feel powerful for helping the characters out, figuring out their lives for them... alien characters that is, cause who cares about silly humans, right? Jacob doesn't need Shepard to fix him, he doesn't need Shepard to make him better, he doesn't need Shepard to help him decide what to do with his father. he's perfectly fine on his own (as is Kaidan incidentally, but I guess telling about anything personal even when asked = whining >_> unless you are an alien that is - as an alien you can complain about anything you want, I swear its like that thing they say about pushy men = assertive, but pushy women = antagonistic b*****s even if they are doing exactly the same thing)

Jacob has 3 strikes going against him. He's human male. He's independent and doesn't need player to fix him. He dares to question player's actions. remove/change any 2 out of these 3 and he might have had a chance. /shrug.

[Sepewrath]

See flemm what you just described there is someone who can compete with Shepard for screen time, that would be legit main character stuff right there. They seem to avoid that in these games, people look at Ashley as too big of personality in ME1. I think what they were going for was putting him in between Kaidan and Ashley, more lively than Kaidan, but less than Ashley.

Like KingNothing said, he talked about Galaxy and being a Corsair, he showed Shepard respect from the moment he meets them and tries to gain trust. I don't think they handled badly at all, its just a mystery as to why he didn't take, as I would hope its not some kind of racism, because then I refer back to my original post about there not being a big enough facepalm. I can only hope that is what people, only being interested in the aliens, unless the human had a pair of boobs.

[ubermensch007]

flemm wrote... Some of those motivational posters are pretty hilarious. I like Jacob,
but would have preferred a stronger story arc for him in ME2.

I like having him lead the fire team in the SM, though, so he has his moment to shine. In a sense, that ties into his loyalty mission, where he discovers that his father wasn't fit for command, whereas Jake proves his command readiness, as Miranda suggests if you choose him.

That said, I think this could have been more strongly emphasized.

ubermensch007 wrote...

I just had to stop by to support J.T.

@flemm, I next to always send Jacob back with the surviving crew; b/c I trust that he will look out for them.
Unlike his father did...

RPGmom28 wrote... Yeah, I wonder how what decision Shepard makes regarding Ronald Taylor will
change or shape Jacob in ME3, if at all. Knowing my dad shot himself in the head would mess me up pretty badly. But Jacob is a strong guy. Will be interesting to see what happens. I hope they stay true to his character

.

@flemm and RPGmom28: I actually feel that Jacob has one of the best story arcs in Mass Effect 2.His is a story about "Trust"

At least two or three times Jacob ask Commander Shepard will he or she trust him.

On the Lazarus Station and after you speak to the Illusive Man for the first time.This was something that I did not forget when it came time to do the Suicide mission.To elaborate on what I said in my last post here.It is said that "Actions speak louder than words." By letting Jacob look after the weak and vulnerable crew members of the Normandy SR-2.That was my way of showing him - How much i care about him.How much confidence I have in his professionalism.And how faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar I know his apple fell from his fathers tree...

Jacob is known to keep his emotions in check.But I have no doubt that in a private moment.Seeing how much Commander Shepard came to trust him.Must have caused him to get choked up. I believe that if you sent Jacob back with the abducted crew members - it should be acknowledged... :innocent:

Modifié par ubermensch007, 22 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Youknow]

Sepewrath wrote...

See flemm what you just described there is someone who can compete with Shepard for screen time, that would be legit main character stuff right there. They seem to avoid that in these games, people look at Ashley as too big of personality in ME1. I think what they were going for was putting him in between Kaidan and Ashley, more lively than Kaidan, but less than Ashley.

Like KingNothing said, he talked about Galaxy and being a Corsair, he showed Shepard respect from the moment he meets them and tries to gain trust. I don't think they handled badly at all, its just a mystery as to why he didn't take, as I would hope its not some kind of racism, because then I refer back to my original post about there not being a big enough facepalm. I can only hope that is what people, only being interested in the aliens, unless the human had a pair of boobs.

Which is silly, a character's behavior shouldn't be stifled so they don't "outshine" the main character. So long as the character isn't shown favoritism, I don't see anything wrong with the character being in the spotlight for awhile. 

As for why Jacob isn't liked? I'm starting to think that the Bioware fan bases will find ANY stupid reasons that they can to hate the first male party member to join the party. I mean you go around, and people find the most nonsensical reasons too. And then turn around and praise characters like Garrus and call them a bro when Garrus literally wants nothing to do with you in ME2, and he literally has the same lines as Jacob (yes, I know all squadmates have filler lines at moments, but Garrus and Jacob literally have like the same ones all over the place yet Jacob is hated and Garrus is loved). I bet if Jacob joined as the second guy and someone like say Thane was first, people would just hate Thane like crazy and Jacob would just be "the cool guy." 

This is just my own little thought here, but another reason could be that people don't read enough books, and think that a character has to be dynamic to have any form of noteworthy development. I've noticed this a lot with video gamers actually. They claim that any character that is static is "bad." Less interesting I could see, but not every character needs to face a moral dillema, or needs to have something that changes their life and flips their beliefs around. Stable characters allow for more reliable sources for the audience, and also make the cast come across as far less weakminded overall. What bothers me too is that people like Jacob should be more reletable, because most of us are more down to earth. There's a reason I preferred Ashley and Kaidan over the other the aliens in ME1. Because they had conversations with you. They didn't say things like "Help me find this" or launch an "exposition expedition" at me. 

But really? I don't hate any of the characters really (and it takes a lot for me to hate a character or person for that matter), so it really bothers me to see anyone get hatred at all. 

[KingNothing125]

I've noticed the hate for static characters among video gamers as well. There's nothing wrong with static characters; some of my favorite characters are static.

Hermione Granger; Samwise Gamgee; Bender; Indiana Jones... just to name a few.

[GameBoyish]

NEED ideas for Jacob Fan Club names on DeviantArt...

And also, people to help admin the group with me

Some ideas (as promised no PRIIIZE)
-SneakingUpToTheCaptain'sQuarters
-TheGoodStuff

And I am planning to NOT have any folders as based on my findings, there aren't many fanworks with Jacob That's the main reason I want to start up the club, to have a place where all Jacob fans can gather on deviantArt...

[GameBoyish]

Oh and I found this

http://ornia.deviant...aylor-200313574

[RPGmom28]

Love that one, Trivia. His lips look delicious in it.

I'm not an artist, but I would be willing to put up the Jacob banners for a deviant art site and perhaps make more if needed.

[SandyWB]

I was so sad that Bioware didn't make Jacob a more interesting character. I hate the term, but in many ways, he did feel like the 'token black-guy'. Something about his manner-ism, apperance and overall feel just rubbed me the wrong way. Not to mention that his loyalty mission is probably THE most boring mission in ME2, despite a rather interesting concept. Not really wanting him back for ME3. Theye are so many more interesting characters that I want in the game instead. Hell, I'd even take Vega over Jacob.
Sorry, Jacob-fans. 

Modifié par SandyWB, 22 août 2011 - 02:12 .

[GameBoyish]

@Sandy What is "more interesting" to you? A tragic past? Just curious. And I disagree about his loyalty mission being boring. When I first got there on my first run, it intrigued me and I liked the outcome. Heck, I don't even understand when you say "I'd even take Vega over Jacob" when Vega is a brand new character that is neither bad nor good because we have no info on him yet! It would be better if you elaborated what those "somethings" about his mannerisms, appearance and overall feel that rubbed you the wrong way. Personally, overall I enjoy the fact that he lets Shepard whine for a change (if you romance him), which is awesome, and an option unavailable to other characters!

[Radahldo]

I think if femshep talked to garrus in the same tone she addresses Jacob there would be far less outcry, if any. People would even enjoy it.
You are forced to react poatively to Garrus and others; you can't exactly be affirming of Grunt. The game decides a lot of the tone of shepards interactions. No one holds it against the voice direction, for some reason its Jacobs fault and it's this insurmountable thing.

[lazuli]

Radahldo wrote...

I think if femshep talked to garrus in the same tone she addresses Jacob there would be far less outcry, if any. People would even enjoy it.
You are forced to react poatively to Garrus and others; you can't exactly be affirming of Grunt. The game decides a lot of the tone of shepards interactions. No one holds it against the voice direction, for some reason its Jacobs fault and it's this insurmountable thing.

It has to do with masculine identity and competition, at least that's my theory.  When male players create a female projection of themself to fulfill fetishist fantasies, suddenly having that female projection flirt shamelessly with an idealized male causes all sorts of complications.  I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I've dabbled in enough gender studies to see the tip of the iceberg here.

It's not a big deal with Garrus because it's hard to perceive him as a threat in terms of sexual competition.  I mean, I love Garrus, but he has mandibles and a chitinous exoskeleton.

Modifié par lazuli, 22 août 2011 - 03:31 .

[flemm]

It has to do with masculine identity and competition, at least that's my theory.  When male players create a female projection of themself to fulfill fetishist fantasies, suddenly having that female projection flirt shamelessly with an idealized male causes all sorts of complications.  I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I've dabbled in enough gender studies to see the tip of the iceberg here.

I think that's probably quite a perceptive comment. Jacob may feel essentially like a rival to many male femshep players. Thane less so, and Garrus least of all. I imagine that f/f romances are popular choices for male players, partly for the reason you are suggesting.

[Collider]

For me, it's not a matter of being threatened, but more that I don't like female Shepard having to sound so lecherous in Jacob and Garrus' romances. But I don't "blame" Jacob & Garrus for it. I blame the voice direction and writing.

[Radahldo]

I've personally never been bothered by the tone. (not to seem like i'im raging om garrus) another thing is the complaints of Garrus romamce seeming like a fling.
People who romanced him banded together,looked at dialog and shared impressions, collectively determining its not

But Jacob and the 'needs a better man than I' line is met with surface level rejection from everyone

Its really strange to me since specially on BSN can we come up with endless justifications and interpretations. I mean just look at the size of all these character threads.. How much of this seriously is anything other than fleshing out the universe for fanfic and headcannon? But with Jacob the complaints have been these same five or so complaints for months. It reminds a lot of how players reacted to Wynne. All the disdain was just so unbudging amd repetitious.

[DirtyVagrant]

Has there been anymore info yet as to Jacob and ME3?