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[flemm]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Has there been anymore info yet as to Jacob and ME3?

He's in it. Nothing else as far as I know.

[Collider]

Radahldo wrote...

I've personally never been bothered by the tone. (not to seem like i'im raging om garrus) another thing is the complaints of Garrus romamce seeming like a fling.
People who romanced him banded together,looked at dialog and shared impressions, collectively determining its not

But Jacob and the 'needs a better man than I' line is met with surface level rejection from everyone

Its really strange to me since specially on BSN can we come up with endless justifications and interpretations. I mean just look at the size of all these character threads.. How much of this seriously is anything other than fleshing out the universe for fanfic and headcannon? But with Jacob the complaints have been these same five or so complaints for months. It reminds a lot of how players reacted to Wynne. All the disdain was just so unbudging amd repetitious.

It's pretty safe to criticize Jacob on BSN.

Many other characters? If you criticize them (or praise them, in some cases), you get attacked.
And I'm not referring to any one character here. Just the unwritten rule that Jacob is a bad character or pin cushion.

[Darc_Requiem]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Has there been anymore info yet as to Jacob and ME3?

No there hasn't outside of the fact that he'll make some sort of appearance. Despite Cerberus seemingly being a huge part of the ME3 plot, I doubt we'll see much of Jacob. His popularity and the human heavy nature of the announced squad are two strikes against him.

[SilentK]

I was really hoping to get something on Jacob during Gamescom... Oh well. Maybe they are keeping both him and Miranda secret for the moment. I'll keep on twittering questions every now and then....

I really like the DeviantArt-idea. If I had any artistic abilities I would contribute but I will gladly hang out and chat at bit over there   =)

Both Kaidan and Jacob are fav-LI:s of mine. Guess I have a thing for good guys that don't need fixing, they are there as support for my FemSheps. Or rather, they are a team together. Still I remember being a little unsure about Jacob in the beginning, it wasn't until my 3:rd FemShep romanced him that I got a feeling for his character and since then he is pretty much part of the standard team. Came by the thread to ask how I should interpret "Miranda needs a better man than me" or something to that effect when I started the romance-PT. It might just be me having English as a second language, or that I'm not as good at it as I think but I got it all wrong. Thought that he carried a torch for Miranda and ended it. Went back to a earlier save after some reading here and continued the romance. If you don't think about him, how he's always trying to be polite, do the right thing. Doesn't push, and doesn't require you to do that either it's quite possible just to miss him. He's not in your face. Still, no one has to love all companions. You just have to let people have their own opinions. Granted, it would be fun to see a few more here  =)   but I seldom see the reason for just appearing in a thread to rain on someone parade.

Started a new FemShep and was struck by how Jacob often just say the things that I feel at the moment. First time in Omega walking around there is some banter between him and Miranda. There are sick batarians or vorchas sitting around, clearly not having a better place to go to.

Jacob: This place - - how can these people be left to rot like this?
Miranda: You don't understand, or you don't want to?
Jacob: Does it really matter?
Miranda: No. Omega has worked this way for a very long time. No one's changing it now.


Like how he says people, not aliens or batarians. He refers to them as people. Little things like that makes me happy. We need a little more Jacob on this page so here we go   =)

Modifié par SilentK, 22 août 2011 - 04:46 .

[Sialater]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Has there been anymore info yet as to Jacob and ME3?

No there hasn't outside of the fact that he'll make some sort of appearance. Despite Cerberus seemingly being a huge part of the ME3 plot, I doubt we'll see much of Jacob. His popularity and the human heavy nature of the announced squad are two strikes against him.

Well, damn, that does not bode well for the romance save I have for him.

[RPGmom28]

SilentK, I like Kaidan too. I hate the dialogue he got on Horizon, though. Seemed really out of character.

[flemm]

I'm confident there will be some resolution to the romance, but perhaps over the course of a single set of missions or section of the plot.

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 04:58 .

[SilentK]

@ RPGmom28  Let's just hope that Kaidan and Ashley will be less Kashely Willenko, and more Ashley or Kaidan. Horizon wasn't really a high point for me either.

Well, have twittered to a few BioWare-people asking for info on Jacob at PAX. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't they mentioned everyone but Jacob at least once now?

Liara, Tali, Garrus, Kaidan and Ash are covered. Miranda-fans doesn't know much but she has been mentioned. Thane got a mention. I think Jacob is starting to feel a little left out.

Go ahead and twitter you too, perhaps he will remembered. If I'm wrong, please I would love to know something. Have been out of the loop for a few days so perhaps I missed something. But I have looked around a bit, and nothing so far.

Modifié par SilentK, 22 août 2011 - 05:16 .

[CC-Tron]

SilentK wrote...

@ RPGmom28

Well, have twittered to a few BioWare-people asking for info on Jacob at PAX. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't they mentioned everyone but Jacob at least once now?

No. They haven't mentioned Grunt, Samara, or Thane yet.

[flemm]

It must be said that, generally speaking, there has been a lot more info on ME1 characters, as opposed to ME2. Mordin is a bit of an exception, I guess, since apparently he was in a demo of some sort. But otherwise, no specifics. So, marketing strategy perhaps, to parcel information, or ME2 characters appear at important plot points.

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[jeweledleah]

about that "she needs a better man then me" line. I forgot who said this, but its basically a polite way of saying - "she's too high maintenance"

I think I also remember a twit fro ma while ago, saying something about Jacob having a role in ME3... but that could still just mean a short cameo. I hope I'm wrong about that.

[flemm]

There's something about a "promise" that Miranda made to Jake that she apparently fulfills, in her mind at least, when she gives him the lead to his father's crash site. But then even Jake is not sure what she means.

I believe it's right after Miranda's revelation of her involvement with launching the loyalty mission that Jake gives the line about Miranda needing a better man. It's an odd little character moment that is never really resolved in the game.

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 06:09 .

[SilentK]

CC-Tron wrote...

SilentK wrote...

@ RPGmom28

Well, have twittered to a few BioWare-people asking for info on Jacob at PAX. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't they mentioned everyone but Jacob at least once now?

No. They haven't mentioned Grunt, Samara, or Thane yet.

They have said that Thane will be alive for ME3 which is great for those that romanced him   =)    so no, there hasn't really been a tidal wave of info. But a mention is always nice, lol

Keeping my fingers crossed for PAX  

jeweledleah wrote...

about that "she needs a better man then me" line. I forgot who said this, but its basically a polite way of saying - "she's too high maintenance"

I think I also remember a twit fro ma while ago, saying something about Jacob having a role in ME3... but that could still just mean a short cameo. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I would be really really sad for a short cameo       got used to being able to bring him on missions and having him around. FemShep needs her rock. Ok, still don't like it when he goes mute in Overlord-dlc but at least he was there. Hmmm... still, I like to stay on the positive side so hoping for a really good romance-arc for Jacob and my FemShep's who romanced him. And a good friendship-arc as well. Guess we will see in march.

Modifié par SilentK, 22 août 2011 - 08:45 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Has there been anymore info yet as to Jacob and ME3?

No there hasn't outside of the fact that he'll make some sort of appearance. Despite Cerberus seemingly being a huge part of the ME3 plot, I doubt we'll see much of Jacob. His popularity and the human heavy nature of the announced squad are two strikes against him.

It may be the optimist in me saying this, but I think a reason info has been scarce on Jacob and Miranda is because their roles will probably be a major spoiler to the Cerberus Storyline. I don't think he'll be a Playable Squadmate (in fact, from the looks of it no one will be from ME2 outside of Tali and Garrus) but I am thinking he'll have a good role none the less. Probably something like Liara in Lair of the Shadow Broker.

[KingNothing125]

I think the "Miranda requires a better man than I" is an indication that the two of them were together in the past and that it didn't work out, probably because of something he did.

I don't think I agree that it's because she's too high maintenance or something like that... I think he screwed up somehow.

[jeweledleah]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I think the "Miranda requires a better man than I" is an indication that the two of them were together in the past and that it didn't work out, probably because of something he did.

I don't think I agree that it's because she's too high maintenance or something like that... I think he screwed up somehow.

I don't know... Miranda felt she owed him one... so on her side at least, i don't think she blames him for whatever made them grow apart.  I think they just weren't compatible.  but the split was an amicable becasue they don't just work well together, they make good foils for each other.

[SandyWB]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@Sandy What is "more interesting" to you? A tragic past? Just curious. And I disagree about his loyalty mission being boring. When I first got there on my first run, it intrigued me and I liked the outcome. Heck, I don't even understand when you say "I'd even take Vega over Jacob" when Vega is a brand new character that is neither bad nor good because we have no info on him yet! It would be better if you elaborated what those "somethings" about his mannerisms, appearance and overall feel that rubbed you the wrong way. Personally, overall I enjoy the fact that he lets Shepard whine for a change (if you romance him), which is awesome, and an option unavailable to other characters!

First of all, I should have put a smiley or something at the Vega line, as that was meant as a joke. Being the internet and all, it's impossible to convey sarcasm in plain written text. But yeah, what I was trying to say is that even though some people already hate Vega soley based on his looks, I'd STILL prefer him to Jacob, since to me, Jacob had about as much personality as a rock.

I never did romance him, so I can't really comment on that part of his personality. Overall though, right from the first time I met Jacob in-game, I had zero interest in him as a character, and that didn't change during the course of the game when I talked to him and did his mission. I could say that it was because of his by-the-books mannerism, his stereotypical 'black'(for a lack of better term) speech and lines at certain moments,  his fairly (in my mind) ugly apperance when it comes both to clothing and facial features, or boring (again, in my opinion) execution of his loyalty mission, but I think it comes down to a mix of all things in the end.

If I was to break it down, I'd say some of the negative things about Jacob in my mind were:

Background and Loyalty mission: I do in no way feel that a tragic past is a must for an interesting story, but Jacob to me felt as if either Bioware ran out of ideas or played it way to safe. Ok, so he's a soldier who got tired of red tape and is now with Cerberus? Fine. That would have made a better loyalty mission to explore than the rather random lost father who played Harem. Don't get me wrong, the idea was fine and the mission could have been good, if they had given it more of a horror/survival vibe. The mission now was basically just going from point A to point B on a sunny beach-planet and killing mechs. We didn't get to know anything interesting about Jacob, and he had the same attitude to everything before and after the mission. 

Looks: I'm sorry, but a soldier just shouldn't wear spandex. Give him a armor similar to what Shepard wears, then maybe I would have had some respect for the guy. Also, and this might just be me, but squinty eyes and pouty lips didn't really look good to me. It's subjective, I know, but I just didn't like hos he looked or what he wore.

Personality: Besides that fact that I didn't feel that he had much, I just thought Jacob felt like the awkward guy who wanted to be the teacher's (Shepard's) pet all the time. Even if he objected to something once or twice, he just rolled over the next second. Making the salute/standing at attention all the time wasn't a bad idea per se by Bioware, but the execution left alot to be desired. Again, I'm sure others will disagree, but Jacob was a big stick in the mudd for me, with the occational awkward attempts to make him seem cool... "we get loud, and spill some drinks at the Citadel" *high-five*... that was the definition of forced black-ism if I had ever heard it.

In conclusion, I'm not trying to step on any toes, and those who like Jacob are entitled to do so. However, I'll be happy if Jacob stays out of ME3, or at the least only gets a small cameo. Judging by how many people seemed to agree with me that he wasn't that interesting when ME2 came out, I think he won't get a large part in ME3. If he does become a squadmate however, no big deal for me, I'll just leave him on the ship as I did in ME2. I just think that that space could be used by something more interesting, like a water-cooler.

[CC-Tron]

SandyWB wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@Sandy What is "more interesting" to you? A tragic past? Just curious. And I disagree about his loyalty mission being boring. When I first got there on my first run, it intrigued me and I liked the outcome. Heck, I don't even understand when you say "I'd even take Vega over Jacob" when Vega is a brand new character that is neither bad nor good because we have no info on him yet! It would be better if you elaborated what those "somethings" about his mannerisms, appearance and overall feel that rubbed you the wrong way. Personally, overall I enjoy the fact that he lets Shepard whine for a change (if you romance him), which is awesome, and an option unavailable to other characters!

First of all, I should have put a smiley or something at the Vega line, as that was meant as a joke. Being the internet and all, it's impossible to convey sarcasm in plain written text. But yeah, what I was trying to say is that even though some people already hate Vega soley based on his looks, I'd STILL prefer him to Jacob, since to me, Jacob had about as much personality as a rock.

I never did romance him, so I can't really comment on that part of his personality. Overall though, right from the first time I met Jacob in-game, I had zero interest in him as a character, and that didn't change during the course of the game when I talked to him and did his mission. I could say that it was because of his by-the-books mannerism, his stereotypical 'black'(for a lack of better term) speech and lines at certain moments,  his fairly (in my mind) ugly apperance when it comes both to clothing and facial features, or boring (again, in my opinion) execution of his loyalty mission, but I think it comes down to a mix of all things in the end.

If I was to break it down, I'd say some of the negative things about Jacob in my mind were:

Background and Loyalty mission: I do in no way feel that a tragic past is a must for an interesting story, but Jacob to me felt as if either Bioware ran out of ideas or played it way to safe. Ok, so he's a soldier who got tired of red tape and is now with Cerberus? Fine. That would have made a better loyalty mission to explore than the rather random lost father who played Harem. Don't get me wrong, the idea was fine and the mission could have been good, if they had given it more of a horror/survival vibe. The mission now was basically just going from point A to point B on a sunny beach-planet and killing mechs. We didn't get to know anything interesting about Jacob, and he had the same attitude to everything before and after the mission. 

Looks: I'm sorry, but a soldier just shouldn't wear spandex. Give him a armor similar to what Shepard wears, then maybe I would have had some respect for the guy. Also, and this might just be me, but squinty eyes and pouty lips didn't really look good to me. It's subjective, I know, but I just didn't like hos he looked or what he wore.

Personality: Besides that fact that I didn't feel that he had much, I just thought Jacob felt like the awkward guy who wanted to be the teacher's (Shepard's) pet all the time. Even if he objected to something once or twice, he just rolled over the next second. Making the salute/standing at attention all the time wasn't a bad idea per se by Bioware, but the execution left alot to be desired. Again, I'm sure others will disagree, but Jacob was a big stick in the mudd for me, with the occational awkward attempts to make him seem cool... "we get loud, and spill some drinks at the Citadel" *high-five*... that was the definition of forced black-ism if I had ever heard it.

In conclusion, I'm not trying to step on any toes, and those who like Jacob are entitled to do so. However, I'll be happy if Jacob stays out of ME3, or at the least only gets a small cameo. Judging by how many people seemed to agree with me that he wasn't that interesting when ME2 came out, I think he won't get a large part in ME3. If he does become a squadmate however, no big deal for me, I'll just leave him on the ship as I did in ME2. I just think that that space could be used by something more interesting, like a water-cooler.

Haters gonna hate.

[Krunjar]

Jacob was a carbon copy "token black guy" He was written ok He was a nice guy I guess and likeable. At the very least he didn't annoy be. But he didn't really interest me either.

[CC-Tron]

Krunjar wrote...

Jacob was a carbon copy "token black guy" He was written ok He was a nice guy I guess and likeable. At the very least he didn't annoy be. But he didn't really interest me either.

What's a token black guy?

[KingNothing125]

Everyone claiming Jacob was the token black guy... did they think Captain Anderson was the token black guy in ME1?

[Sepewrath]

Yeah token black guy is ridiculous, he wasn't presented as a sterotypical black guy, to fit that role, so no he definitely was the token black guy.

lazuli wrote...
It has to do with masculine identity and competition, at least that's my theory.  When male players create a female projection of themself to fulfill fetishist fantasies, suddenly having that female projection flirt shamelessly with an idealized male causes all sorts of complications.  I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I've dabbled in enough gender studies to see the tip of the iceberg here.

This is what I was talking about, I think BW made Jacob and then pulled back on him a bit, because given he doesn't have any problems, that only Shepard can solve. He's been there, done that with Miranda, you got Kasumi interested in him, He had his own game, as a whole package, the guy is teetering on Shepard status. If they had gone any further, we wouldn't have needed Shepard, could have played as Jacob. I think BW wants to avoid anyone encroaching on Shepard, since people live through their characters.

That's why its funny that BW made the VS a Spectre,  I'm assuming to make them more popular, because anyone who is a Spectre is instantly a better character. And to satiate people wanting a Spectre squad member. But I think that is a recipe for disaster, especially if they choose to invoke their status in the face of Shepard.

[SandyWB]

CC-Tron wrote...

Haters gonna hate. 

Never said I hated him or anyone who likes him.Just said that I didn't like him because he was uninteresting
compared to all the other great characters in ME2. But yeah, if you think that makes me ahater, then that's your problem, not mine.

CC-Tron wrote...

What's a token black guy?

Tokenism

I just want to point out ahead of time, that I dislike the term, and that I in no way want to make this a thread about race, ethnicity or anything remotely close to that. I'm just explaining what the term means.

Token black guy. It's a term that has different meanings depending on how you use it in a situation.

It can be a term for a character who displays the mannerism, characteristics and appearance of a 'generic', stereotypical black man. The mannerism and characteristics are sometimes based on common misconceptions and general prejudice, but sometimes it is also based on half-truths and hyperbole.

The other meaning is that in the last few decades black characters have sometimes been 'crammed' into films, tv-series and the likes for no other apparent reasons than to have a black character in the demographic. The reason for the usage of a token black guy vary, ranging from attempts at appearing anti-racist, to comedy because of the previously noted attempts at seeming anti-racist. A few good examples of the latter would be the character Token Black from South-Park, or the character Malik Token from Not Another Teen Movie.

I do believe Jacob does fall dangerously close to being a token black guy in some regards, and that might be why I have some issues with the character.

Modifié par SandyWB, 23 août 2011 - 02:15 .

[RPGmom28]

I think this "token" business is silly, too- I wouldn't want to live in a world where everybody looked the same, and I wouldn't want a story where every character looked the same. And let's be realistic. You are not going to have a crew in Earth's future without one dark-skinned person! It's just like people asking to see female turians walking around or children on the citadel. People of all different appearances, genders, and ethnicities would be encountered in daily life. There's no reason why a black man wouldn't have Jacob's service record. If I were Shepard I don't see as it would make a whit of a difference.

Modifié par RPGmom28, 23 août 2011 - 01:51 .

[CC-Tron]

SandyWB wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Haters gonna hate. 

Never said I hated him or anyone who likes him.Just said that I didn't like him because he was uninteresting
compared to all the other great characters in ME2. But yeah, if you think that makes me ahater, then that's your problem, not mine.

CC-Tron wrote...

What's a token black guy?

Tokenism

I just want to point out ahead of time, that I dislike the term, and that I in no way want to make this a thread about race, ethnicity or anything remotely close to that. I'm just explaining what the term means.

Token black guy. It's a term that has different meanings depending on how you use it in a situation.

It can be a term for a character who displays the mannerism, characteristics and appearance of a 'generic', stereotypical black man. The mannerism and characteristics are sometimes based on common misconceptions and general prejudice, but sometimes it is also based on half-truths and hyperbole.

The other meaning is that in the last few decades black characters have sometimes been 'crammed' into films, tv-series and the likes for no other apparent reasons than to have a black character in the demographic. The reason for the usage of a token black guy vary, ranging from attempts at appearing anti-racist, to comedy because of the previously noted attempts at seeming anti-racist. A few good examples of the latter would be the character Token Black from South-Park, or the character Malik Token from Not Another Teen Movie.

I do believe Jacob does fall dangerously close to being a token black guy in some regards, and that might be why I have some issues with the character.

Why are you posting that you don't like Jacob in a Jacob 'fan' thread? That's what haters do. Why else would one come in here just to tell fans that?

I know what tokenism is. I wanted the one who I responded to, to explain it.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 23 août 2011 - 02:28 .