2249 réponses à ce sujet

[CC-Tron]

Collider wrote...

The game pretty much tells you that Thane's a "bad boy." Talk to Kelly. Although, the game isn't very consistent in character concepts, at times.

Personality wise, I thought he was a nice guy who has a bad-ass occupation. Sort of like Jacob.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 02 octobre 2011 - 04:30 .

[Collider]

CC-Tron wrote...

Collider wrote...

The game pretty much tells you that Thane's a "bad boy." Talk to Kelly. Although, the game isn't very consistent in character concepts, at times.

Personality wise, I thought he was a nice guy who has a bad-ass occupation. Sort of like Jacob.

Agreed.
It would seem that they had certain concepts for some characters (like Thane) that didn't quite follow through to the end.

[SilentK]

Hmmm  yes    =)    haven't thought about it before but Thane as a nice guy with a bad-ass job fits him rather nicely.

And since we have a new page we need some Jacob on it


Jacob Taylor by weemiji   <-------------------   linky for DA-page

[CoffeeHolic93]

CC-Tron wrote...


Mordin is a bad example. Mordin wasn't hired for his tech battle expertise. He was hired for his knowledge of biology (swarm counter-measure). Tali would be a better example of a top tech. Jack and Samara weren't needed for the suicide mission. Any good biotic could get the team to the doors successfully. The only reason a squaddie gets taken by the swarms is because they advance on the collectors instead of falling back behind the doors like Shepard orders.

Basically what I'm saying is the mission could be completed arguably easier with a band of rough n' ready top rate tech/biotic mercs who are trained in warfare procedures already. Instead TIM recommends a band of unstable (Jack), potentially difficult because of ideals (Samara), or unsuited experience for the mission (Thane, Kasumi).

It certainly would spare Shepard the head case loyalty missions BS. Pay the mercs, they do the job and their dismissed. Of course TIM's band was chosen for spectacle not simplicity.

You have a point, but it would make for a boring game. I'd rather have a psychotic like Jack who snarks at your commands "Whatever you say Boss man" rather than an elite merc who'd respond with "Yes sir" and nothing else. Also, the loyalty missions was a means to an end to show us the different cultures of the races and the conflicts they have. To make us care for the world before they blow it to bits in ME3.  I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly willing to cut Bioware some slack in this department.

[CC-Tron]

Mi-Chan wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...


Mordin is a bad example. Mordin wasn't hired for his tech battle expertise. He was hired for his knowledge of biology (swarm counter-measure). Tali would be a better example of a top tech. Jack and Samara weren't needed for the suicide mission. Any good biotic could get the team to the doors successfully. The only reason a squaddie gets taken by the swarms is because they advance on the collectors instead of falling back behind the doors like Shepard orders.

Basically what I'm saying is the mission could be completed arguably easier with a band of rough n' ready top rate tech/biotic mercs who are trained in warfare procedures already. Instead TIM recommends a band of unstable (Jack), potentially difficult because of ideals (Samara), or unsuited experience for the mission (Thane, Kasumi).

It certainly would spare Shepard the head case loyalty missions BS. Pay the mercs, they do the job and their dismissed. Of course TIM's band was chosen for spectacle not simplicity.

You have a point, but it would make for a boring game. I'd rather have a psychotic like Jack who snarks at your commands "Whatever you say Boss man" rather than an elite merc who'd respond with "Yes sir" and nothing else. Also, the loyalty missions was a means to an end to show us the different cultures of the races and the conflicts they have. To make us care for the world before they blow it to bits in ME3.  I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly willing to cut Bioware some slack in this department.

I don't think it has to be boring to use all mercs. It all depends on what backgrounds, personalities and situations you give those mercs. I just thought ME2 went over the top in the name of spectacle with it's squad.

[Sepewrath]

As Shepard said to Zaeed, most mercs wouldn't do a suicide mission. Its not just about skill, you would have to find the right people who would be willing to do this. Not a lot of people are going to sign up for a guaranteed death, because no matter how much they pay you, your never going to get to spend it.

The only reason Zaeed took the mission is because as you see with his stories, he simply will not die. I doubt too many people could make that claim, also based on the SB data, he might have been suicidal. So that elite mercs group, wouldn't happen. Take Samara, probably more powerful than any merc you would find, you don't have to pay her and she has the mindset to go on such a a mission. Definitely seems like the better option to me.

[RPGmom28]

I assumed Zaeed took the job because he wanted Vido Santiago dead so badly that he didn't care if he died killing him. Since Shepard had to take on the mission, he assumed that Vido would die if he signed up. I agree about Samara types being a better fit. I love the conversation in this thread.

[ADLegend21]

SilentK wrote...


Hmmm  yes    =)    haven't thought about it before but Thane as a nice guy with a bad-ass job fits him rather nicely.

And since we have a new page we need some Jacob on it


Jacob Taylor by weemiji   <-------------------   linky for DA-page

This is an outstanding piece of art.

[CC-Tron]

Sepewrath wrote...

As Shepard said to Zaeed, most mercs wouldn't do a suicide mission. Its not just about skill, you would have to find the right people who would be willing to do this. Not a lot of people are going to sign up for a guaranteed death, because no matter how much they pay you, your never going to get to spend it.

The only reason Zaeed took the mission is because as you see with his stories, he simply will not die. I doubt too many people could make that claim, also based on the SB data, he might have been suicidal. So that elite mercs group, wouldn't happen. Take Samara, probably more powerful than any merc you would find, you don't have to pay her and she has the mindset to go on such a a mission. Definitely seems like the better option to me.

Shepard's first mistake was telling them it is a suicide mission to begin with. You don't do that when recruiting people. It's foolish.  It wasn't a suicide mission; just a very risky mission. If the price is right, TIM wouldn't have any problem hiring top rate mercs. 

As for whether the mercs would accept or not; that's purely up to the writer. There are plenty of reason's why a merc would go on a mission with bad odds. In fact the reason Thane joined could be applied to a merc as well. Or even Jack with a rewrite here or there.

[Stardusk78]

Does Jacob always say I love you in the Romance?

[ADLegend21]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Does Jacob always say I love you in the Romance?

Only if you take the bottom option after he says "the priiiize" he says it after that.

[Ravensword]

You have to use a Renegade dialogue option for Jacob to tell FemShep that otherwise the top one he'll just say, "I want you."

[GameBoyish]

omearaee wrote...
I think he would have a lot more fans if he had a better romance.  Most players I have talked to about ME2 were shocked by his romance (there are some bad lines) and femShep's behaviour.  I know I was at first.  But in the end the romance was worth it.  Aside from Tali (my single maleShep), I thought he was the only LI in ME2 who seemed to really care about Shepard.  

I don't think he needed a "better romance" (whatever that means). The voiceover directors had better stop Jen Hale from using her predtorial voice. And where most romances had the LI venting their issues and dramaz, Jacob was the only one who gave Shepard a chance to vent instead!

He would have more fans if he had dramaz like everyone else though Most players want to feel like they are needed to take care of their LI some way or another.

But I enjoy his current fanbase over here, all pretty much level-headed people too

Oh anyway, regarding the dialogue options in the love scene,

Paragon = Alrighty then, let's have fun sexytiemz!
Renegade = Seriously, you here for the "prize"? Gtfo.<_<

Thus the latter option gets Jacob to be serious about the matter and his feelings.

Not that I want Jacob to have as much dramaz as everyone else by the time he's in ME3, but he should really open up more, I REALLY want to know more about the corsairs and such.

Modifié par TriviaAeducan, 03 octobre 2011 - 09:15 .

[Annarl]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

omearaee wrote...
I think he would have a lot more fans if he had a better romance.  Most players I have talked to about ME2 were shocked by his romance (there are some bad lines) and femShep's behaviour.  I know I was at first.  But in the end the romance was worth it.  Aside from Tali (my single maleShep), I thought he was the only LI in ME2 who seemed to really care about Shepard.  

I don't think he needed a "better romance" (whatever that means). The voiceover directors had better stop Jen Hale from using her predtorial voice. And where most romances had the LI venting their issues and dramaz, Jacob was the only one who gave Shepard a chance to vent instead!

He would have more fans if he had dramaz like everyone else though Most players want to feel like they are needed to take care of their LI some way or another.

But I enjoy his current fanbase over here, all pretty much level-headed people too

Oh anyway, regarding the dialogue options in the love scene,

Paragon = Alrighty then, let's have fun sexytiemz!
Renegade = Seriously, you here for the "prize"? Gtfo.<_<

Thus the latter option gets Jacob to be serious about the matter and his feelings.

Not that I want Jacob to have as much dramaz as everyone else by the time he's in ME3, but he should really open up more, I REALLY want to know more about the corsairs and such.

Better romance is poor word choice on my part.  I meant how Shepard herself came across at times.  There was one line that felt sort of like harassment. Jacob seemed uncomfortable.  I can't remember it, it's being so long since I played LOL.  And the line about Miranda needing a better man, I know what he meant, but it just isn't something you would say to someone you want to be with.  And I repeat none of this is his fault, it's the way it could come across to a player.

 As I said, he was one of the only LI (Tali being the other IMHO) that I felt cared about Shepard.  He inquires about her feelings and letting her vent.   I thought that was well done.  
I like that he is a good man with a good heart and he just happens to have his sh** together too.

[PrinceLionheart]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

omearaee wrote...
I think he would have a lot more fans if he had a better romance.  Most players I have talked to about ME2 were shocked by his romance (there are some bad lines) and femShep's behaviour.  I know I was at first.  But in the end the romance was worth it.  Aside from Tali (my single maleShep), I thought he was the only LI in ME2 who seemed to really care about Shepard.  

I don't think he needed a "better romance" (whatever that means). The voiceover directors had better stop Jen Hale from using her predtorial voice. And where most romances had the LI venting their issues and dramaz, Jacob was the only one who gave Shepard a chance to vent instead!

He would have more fans if he had dramaz like everyone else though Most players want to feel like they are needed to take care of their LI some way or another.

But I enjoy his current fanbase over here, all pretty much level-headed people too

Oh anyway, regarding the dialogue options in the love scene,

Paragon = Alrighty then, let's have fun sexytiemz!
Renegade = Seriously, you here for the "prize"? Gtfo.<_<

Thus the latter option gets Jacob to be serious about the matter and his feelings.

Not that I want Jacob to have as much dramaz as everyone else by the time he's in ME3, but he should really open up more, I REALLY want to know more about the corsairs and such.

HE ALSO TOTALLLY BULLIED TALI....by telling her there was an A.I. on the ship.

For the life of me, I'll never understand why people feel the need to "defend Tali's honor" to such a degree.

[ADLegend21]

If anything I wish I could hve renegade interruted Tali and told her to get her act together. SR-1 tenure or not she had no business being snippy with Jacob. I seriously wanted to shake her from how crappy she treated Jake.

[Xilizhra]

ADLegend21 wrote...

If anything I wish I could hve renegade interruted Tali and told her to get her act together. SR-1 tenure or not she had no business being snippy with Jacob. I seriously wanted to shake her from how crappy she treated Jake.

Too far. He's a Cerberus soldier and I can't blame anyone for distrusting them. I trusted him when it became apparent that he wasn't anything close to in on the organization's evil core, but Tali couldn't be expected to know that (and deserves kudos for not leaping to believe that Shepard was a Cerberus agent either).

I propose to this thread that the biggest hole in Jacob's story was his never talking about biotics, which seems rather unrealistic. Kaidan's personal history was dominated in large part by that, Miranda frequently brought them up as part of her enhancement package, and Jack's background was her biotics. Jacob never mentioning it past one line seems... odd.

[Sepewrath]

CC-Tron wrote...
Shepard's first mistake was telling them it is a suicide mission to begin with. You don't do that when recruiting people. It's foolish.  It wasn't a suicide mission; just a very risky mission. If the price is right, TIM wouldn't have any problem hiring top rate mercs. 

As for whether the mercs would accept or not; that's purely up to the writer. There are plenty of reason's why a merc would go on a mission with bad odds. In fact the reason Thane joined could be applied to a merc as well. Or even Jack with a rewrite here or there.

Unless Shepard lied and someone was able to cover up that you were fighting the Collectors and going through the Omega relay, the place where not a single ship has ever come back. Everyone is going to know the score.

And with a rewrite you could turn this game into Hello Kitty, so that really doesn't matter. Thane is a merc, like Jacob said, an assassin is just a precise merc. So applying that to a different merc for some reason, you still have to do the loyalty mission. So what have you gained? The kinds of mercs that would sign up for such a mission, would have something they need from Shepard or Cerberus and that's not money, because you can get money anywhere.

[Sepewrath]

ADLegend21 wrote...

If anything I wish I could hve renegade interruted Tali and told her to get her act together. SR-1 tenure or not she had no business being snippy with Jacob. I seriously wanted to shake her from how crappy she treated Jake.

I have to disagree, that was my one disappointment with Jacob, how childishly he behaved that spot. I expected better from him. That same mistrust that he had for Thane, that Shepard could of had for him at the beginning of game, obviously Tali has for anyone wearing Cerberus colors. Thane showed how you react to that, he reacts well to Shepard's mistrust; he knows what Cerberus did, so he should have reacted better.

[Ravensword]

Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

If anything I wish I could hve renegade interruted Tali and told her to get her act together. SR-1 tenure or not she had no business being snippy with Jacob. I seriously wanted to shake her from how crappy she treated Jake.

Too far. He's a Cerberus soldier and I can't blame anyone for distrusting them. I trusted him when it became apparent that he wasn't anything close to in on the organization's evil core, but Tali couldn't be expected to know that (and deserves kudos for not leaping to believe that Shepard was a Cerberus agent either).

I propose to this thread that the biggest hole in Jacob's story was his never talking about biotics, which seems rather unrealistic. Kaidan's personal history was dominated in large part by that, Miranda frequently brought them up as part of her enhancement package, and Jack's background was her biotics. Jacob never mentioning it past one line seems... odd.

That is true. There is no mention about how his biotics came to play as an Alliance soldier. When he talked about his past w/ the Alliance he makes it seem like he was just another soldier and no mentioning how his biotics affected him as a child, like was he sent off to some biotic program like Kaidan.

[flemm]

I like Jacob, as I've mentioned a few times already in this thread. But, if the question is why he didn't really "take" as a character, I think he just needed a stronger point of view. Not necessarily some kind of big emotional issue or massive character flaw. But something that defined his perspective.

What is his perspective in the actual game? He's working for Cerberus because he doesn't like Alliance red tape, but doesn't really trust them. It's not a strong perspective. Miranda has the Loyalist covered. Distrust/hatred of Cerberus is covered by lots of other characters. So, therein lies the issue, really, imo.

As the male lead he would still be threatening and thus not achieve bromance levels of affection, but the character would have been more successful overall with some type of adjustment in this area, I think.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:03 .

[Sepewrath]

There was nothing defining about Garrus or Tali in ME1 and they came out as the most popular characters. Jacob made the mistake of being a human male and that's about it. Any standout personality would have been twisted into a flaw i.e Kaidan.

[flemm]

Sepewrath wrote...

There was nothing defining about Garrus or Tali in ME1 and they came out as the most popular characters. Jacob made the mistake of being a human male and that's about it. Any standout personality would have been twisted into a flaw i.e Kaidan.

Well, you might be right. Not sure I agree, but it's possible.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:00 .

[ADLegend21]

Sepewrath wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

If anything I wish I could hve renegade interruted Tali and told her to get her act together. SR-1 tenure or not she had no business being snippy with Jacob. I seriously wanted to shake her from how crappy she treated Jake.

I have to disagree, that was my one disappointment with Jacob, how childishly he behaved that spot. I expected better from him. That same mistrust that he had for Thane, that Shepard could of had for him at the beginning of game, obviously Tali has for anyone wearing Cerberus colors. Thane showed how you react to that, he reacts well to Shepard's mistrust; he knows what Cerberus did, so he should have reacted better.

You can tell Jacob you don't trust him. you know what he says?

"I can't expect you to trust me becasue I ask. I'll just have to earn that trust."

Tali's expereince with Jacob is this. He's on command shepard's ship. he helped find Veetor and killed a heavy mech that decimated her quarian squad and possibly helped her out of certain death on haestrom. how the hell can you be rude to someone who saved your life twice, Cerberus or not? she's out of line.

Modifié par ADLegend21, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:19 .

[SilentK]

Hmmm.... this is the problem with only getting a quick snapshot of how the crew acts with each other at one point. I can see Tali being distrusting when she comes on board, a being very open about it. ME2 Tali is a little more, hmmm, I don't know if I should call it feisty but she's pretty outspoken and she's my Shepard's friend. For the FemShep that romanced Jacob and recruited very late in the game that scene was pretty difficult. She just tried to keep everything calm and sort it out later. I just imagine that my FemShep has a heart-to-heart with Tali later on in her room and let's her know about the whole thing. I wish we could have gotten just one scene with 2 crewmates bantering later on in the game so that you could get a feeling for how they have progressed. Does Samara and Jacob discuss biotics? Would Tali be a little more trusting of Jacob even if he's Cerberus if FemShep or BroShep trusts him? I could see Tali becoming more trusting of Jacob as a person if a FemShep who romances Jacob tells her old friend that he's ok. Hmmm.... here's hoping for more crew interaction in ME3.