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[Sand King]

I guess some people only be understood humor when accompanied by numerous inane things like emoticons or "[/sarcasm/troll/etc.]".

But in regards to the topic at hand neither are deserving of the title due to the obvious extenuating circumstances.

[jeweledleah]

Sand King wrote...

I guess some people only be understood humor when accompanied by numerous inane things like emoticons or "[/sarcasm/troll/etc.]".

But in regards to the topic at hand neither are deserving of the title due to the obvious extenuating circumstances.

some of the most hated characters in ME happen to be my favorites.  when you like Jacob AND kaidan AND Ashley best, there comes a point where all the hate gets to be too much and "humor" is not really funny.

and you know?  Shepard didn't "deserve" spectre status either.  he/she was a candidate but Nihlus died before being able to test Shepard properly.  Shepard was given a spectre status becasue they needed someone to chase a rogue spectre, to shut Udina the hell up, to placate the alliance that managed to become a pretty darn strong force in just a few decades.

people tend to see spectres as these super special folks.  but concidering that there are training programs for them (Garrus was a part of one, as he tells you in ME1), its not THAT special.  and Ash/Kaidan - they were there for distruction of sovereign and death of Saren. the quite litteraly got some on the job training. they already have a certain visibility.  even before working with Shepard in ME1- - they were decorated officers, Kaidan especialy was hand picked for the Normandy, just like Shepard was.  they work directly with the council.  perfect canditates for being the next human spectre.

if Jacob stayed with the alliance?  chances are he would have been one of the candidates as well.  after all - he was highly decorated to and ALSO had experience with doing spectrelike work.  he left alliance though.  so just like Garrus leaving his training?  he passed up on that opportunity.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 octobre 2011 - 10:05 .

[CC-Tron]

jeweledleah wrote...

Sand King wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

I like both VS characters but based on what we know, neither of them is as qualified as Jacob to be a Spectre. Too humans have saved the Council. Shepard and Jacob.

I agree Jacob is most qualified. I'm interested in finding out what earned the VS duo spectre status in ME3.

Massive amounts of annoying fans?

>_> what massive ammount woud THAT be?  there's more hate towards VS then there is towards Jacob, especialy post Horizon.

while I think that Jacob does in fact qualify for spectrehood in tersm of his skills, part of the reason why he isn't is about the same why he is no longer a corsair.  even spectres, the real kind, not the symbolic kind like Shepard in ME2 - have to deal with red tape. remember all that reporting to the council that shepard had to do?  all the jumping through hoops?

not to mention - where was Jacob in ME2?  working for Cerberus.  where was VS in ME2? working for alliance and the council.  Spectrehood is not 100% merit based position - its officer corps and its a position typical given to people loyal and working for the council. I adore Jacob, I think he's a great character, but lets be realistic here and lets not start sliding into character or generalized fanbase bashing, please? 

Shepard keeping the council informed on his first mission is not red tape. Red tape refers to things which greatly slow down or prevent one from doing their job. Shepard is a real spectre not just a symbolic one. Tela Vasir wasn't a symbolic spectre, so how was she hampered by red tape? Or Nihlus?

[PrinceLionheart]

CC-Tron wrote...

No. The council are held down by red tape, not the spectres. The council didn't stop Shepard from fighting the reapers in ME1. They just said they wouldn't support him. He always had the freedom as a spectre to pursue the reapers alone. No red tape. I don't see why Jacob would quit the spectres.

I'd call not allowing Shepard to pursue Saren on Ilos and putting his ship on lock down "stopping him."

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 08 octobre 2011 - 09:39 .

[CC-Tron]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

No. The council are held down by red tape, not the spectres. The council didn't stop Shepard from fighting the reapers in ME1. They just said they wouldn't support him. He always had the freedom as a spectre to pursue the reapers alone. No red tape. I don't see why Jacob would quit the spectres.

I'd call not allowing Shepard to pursue Saren on Ilos and putting his ship on lock down "stopping him."

Udina did that, not the Council. The Normandy lock down controls were on his personal computer in his office. The Council just refused to send a fleet to Ilos and Udina did the lockdown.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 08 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[jeweledleah]

CC-Tron wrote...

Shepard keeping the council informed on his first mission is not red tape. Red tape refers to things which greatly slow down or prevent one from doing their job. Shepard is a real spectre not just a symbolic one. Tela Vasir wasn't a symbolic spectre, so how was she hampered by red tape? Or Nihlus?

I would say not revealing enough information, restricting movements, etc could wualify as red tape.  Tela Vasir had to do odd jobs (including assasination) for freaking Shadow broker in order to be able to do her job as a spectre otherwise.  I'm dure if she didn't have to deal with red tape, she woudln't be as inclined to keep herself in shadow broker's pocket.

[CC-Tron]

jeweledleah wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Shepard keeping the council informed on his first mission is not red tape. Red tape refers to things which greatly slow down or prevent one from doing their job. Shepard is a real spectre not just a symbolic one. Tela Vasir wasn't a symbolic spectre, so how was she hampered by red tape? Or Nihlus?

I would say not revealing enough information, restricting movements, etc could wualify as red tape.  Tela Vasir had to do odd jobs (including assasination) for freaking Shadow broker in order to be able to do her job as a spectre otherwise.  I'm dure if she didn't have to deal with red tape, she woudln't be as inclined to keep herself in shadow broker's pocket.

Now you're stretching. Making deals with the Shadow Broker was a necessity. He had resources that she did not possess. Police detectives depend on tips from informers to do their jobs. They can't work all by themselves. They need to work with others to get the info they need. That's not red tape, that's how life works.

(Back to Jacob) Jacob can't make a move without TIM's approval. The Spectre's are allowed much more freedom from the Council. Cerberus agents deal with much more red tape than the Spectres. If Jacob can stand working for TIM than being made a Spectre would be an upgrade.

[jeweledleah]

TIM's approval seems to come swiftly though and there's a difference between having informants and WORKING for informants which is what Tela Vasir was going. she was working for the shadow broker in order to get information she needed, she wasn't getting funds from the council to just PAY for that information - which is what cops do with informants.

Jacob joined Cerberus because as questionable as they were - he got to act swiftly when working with them, he got to feel like he's actually there early enough fast enough to make an actual difference. he wouldn't have joined them otherwise, he has far too much integrity for that.

[CC-Tron]

jeweledleah wrote...

TIM's approval seems to come swiftly though and there's a difference between having informants and WORKING for informants which is what Tela Vasir was going. she was working for the shadow broker in order to get information she needed, she wasn't getting funds from the council to just PAY for that information - which is what cops do with informants.

What does Vasir working for the Shadow Broker have to do with all Spectres?

jeweledleah wrote...
Jacob joined Cerberus because as questionable as they were - he got to act swiftly when working with them, he got to feel like he's actually there early enough fast enough to make an actual difference. he wouldn't have joined them otherwise, he has far too much integrity for that.

I know why Jacob joined Cerberus. We were discussing how being a Cerberus agent is preferable due to less red tape than being a Spectre. You said that Jacob would quit the spectres due to the red tape. My point is if Jacob can work for the Illusive man as head of security on a space station for 2 years (now that's red tape); why would he quit the Spectres due to red tape?

Modifié par CC-Tron, 09 octobre 2011 - 12:04 .

[jeweledleah]

Vasir was stuck working for Shadow Broker because I'm assuming she wasn't getting enough help from the council.

whether Jacob would end up quitting spectrehood would depend on what sort of jobs they would sent him on. however, before he had any chance to join the spectre - he quit alliance and joined the organization that council considers an enemy. so his chances of becoming a spectre at that point diminished more rapidly then those of Garrus becoming a spectre after quitting training... twice. Not to mention, he didn't have the visibility of Shepard who gets some of the lenience from being a symbol.

[PrinceLionheart]

CC-Tron wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

No. The council are held down by red tape, not the spectres. The council didn't stop Shepard from fighting the reapers in ME1. They just said they wouldn't support him. He always had the freedom as a spectre to pursue the reapers alone. No red tape. I don't see why Jacob would quit the spectres.

I'd call not allowing Shepard to pursue Saren on Ilos and putting his ship on lock down "stopping him."

Udina did that, not the Council. The Normandy lock down controls were on his personal computer in his office. The Council just refused to send a fleet to Ilos and Udina did the lockdown.

And Udina did that at the Council's request.

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 09 octobre 2011 - 12:42 .

[CC-Tron]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

No. The council are held down by red tape, not the spectres. The council didn't stop Shepard from fighting the reapers in ME1. They just said they wouldn't support him. He always had the freedom as a spectre to pursue the reapers alone. No red tape. I don't see why Jacob would quit the spectres.

I'd call not allowing Shepard to pursue Saren on Ilos and putting his ship on lock down "stopping him."

Udina did that, not the Council. The Normandy lock down controls were on his personal computer in his office. The Council just refused to send a fleet to Ilos and Udina did the lockdown.

And Udina did that at the Council's request.

Based on what? No where in that scene does the Council request Udina to lockdown the Normandy. The Council doesn't command Udina. The Normandy is an Alliance ship so the council has no authority over it. The controls are in Udina's office and on his computer. It was Udina's idea for Anderson to step down and give Shepard the Normandy in the first place. Who else would have the authority to lockdown the ship?

Now he may have done it to gain favor with the council but that's beside the point because that's not what we're debating here.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 09 octobre 2011 - 01:17 .

[ADLegend21]

I can't see Jacob quitting Spectre work. I mean sure he quit the Alliance, but that was to Stop the Reapers by working with Shepard. He literally upgraded by resigning unlike say Garrus who quit C-Sec,not to help Shepard, but to do as he pleased. Jacob just wants to do what's right and Ic an't see that changing in him at all.

[HWM Sarge]

I'm going to throw my support for Jacob. He's the only squadmate who doesn't bring a bunch of baggage to the table and requires Shepard to work through them.

[PrinceLionheart]

CC-Tron wrote...

Based on what? No where in that scene does the Council request Udina to lockdown the Normandy. The Council doesn't command Udina. The Normandy is an Alliance ship so the council has no authority over it. The controls are in Udina's office and on his computer. It was Udina's idea for Anderson to step down and give Shepard the Normandy in the first place. Who else would have the authority to lockdown the ship?

Now he may have done it to gain favor with the council but that's beside the point because that's not what we're debating here.

A Council pretty cleary refused to allow Shepard to pursue Saren into the terminous system, when Shepard refused to step in they had Udina step him.

My original point is that it was political moves like this that proves that Spectres are still kept on a leash, which is why Jacob probably wouldn't even want to be one despite his skills.

[CC-Tron]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Based on what? No where in that scene does the Council request Udina to lockdown the Normandy. The Council doesn't command Udina. The Normandy is an Alliance ship so the council has no authority over it. The controls are in Udina's office and on his computer. It was Udina's idea for Anderson to step down and give Shepard the Normandy in the first place. Who else would have the authority to lockdown the ship?

Now he may have done it to gain favor with the council but that's beside the point because that's not what we're debating here.

A Council pretty cleary refused to allow Shepard to pursue Saren into the terminous system, when Shepard refused to step in they had Udina step him.

My original point is that it was political moves like this that proves that Spectres are still kept on a leash, which is why Jacob probably wouldn't even want to be one despite his skills.

No they didn't . I watched the scene again on YouTube and they did not stop Shepard from following Saren into terminus. Shepard didn't go to the citadel to ask permission to follow Saren. He went there for Council military backup which they refused to give him. When he persisted Udina lockdown the Normandy and Council had no say in it. It was all Udina.

As for Jacob he's still was on a leash for 2 years (nothing but guard duty) as head of security for Cerberus Lazarus Project. Spectre's have way more freedom than a Cerberus agent and have the Council authority backing for added weight .

[ADLegend21]

I'd love for JAcob to be the Third or fourth human Spectre (at least my Shepard's that leave Cerberus would recommend her for the Spectres) All the humans (witht he exception of Jack as of ME2) would make great Spectre candidates.I with hold on Jack because she's so young and very aggressive when not romanced so maybe after EM3 I'll think other wise. Jacob taylor the the Special Tactics and Reconnassance Branch of the Citadel sounds great.

[ADLegend21]

Also some Jacob pics, with Kallen Shepard.






Jacob: No dad, you go to YOUR room!

[Darc_Requiem]

Slightly off topic, but there is a "but the prize" line in Dragon Age: Mark of the Assassin. I'm not kidding.

Modifié par Darc_Requiem, 10 octobre 2011 - 06:47 .

[JRCHOharry]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Slightly off topic, but there is a "but the prize" line in Dragon Age: Mark of the Assassin. I'm not kidding.

Proof! We need proof!

[SilentK]

Thanks for showing support      swordmalice, Genshie and  H3WM Sarge. It's always appriciated!

@ ADLedgen21   Great pics of Kallen and Jacob! I just got the sketch of my commission of Robin and FemShep. As soon as I remember the password to my paypal-account it wil get going to that one. The Kallen & Jacob-vid was great! Would love to be able to do something like that.


OMG   =)    pretty please I need a video of that   =)    so much fun, lol. The power of Jacob, reaching all the way to DAII.

Modifié par SilentK, 10 octobre 2011 - 12:19 .

[JoshieoPandar]

This guy is a bro next to Garrus.

/signed.

[RPGmom28]

This weekend I remade my very first Shep as close as I could and ran her through her ME1. She has just met Jacob and gotten situated on the Normandy SR2. About a year ago I had a hard drive death that lost me about 5 core femShep completed saves of mine that I pretty much adored. Alissa, my first femShep, ended up with Thane. At that point I hadn't developed the hardcore crush on Jacob that I have now. How surprised she will be to find that her tastes have suddenly changes from one parallel universe to the next...
That black and white suit of Jacob's always makes his hips look weirdly pinched when it's dark. I think it's the white lines that give the illusion of narrowness. One more reason why I wish they would put him in real armor in ME3.

[CC-Tron]

RPGmom28 wrote...

This weekend I remade my very first Shep as close as I could and ran her through her ME1. She has just met Jacob and gotten situated on the Normandy SR2. About a year ago I had a hard drive death that lost me about 5 core femShep completed saves of mine that I pretty much adored. Alissa, my first femShep, ended up with Thane. At that point I hadn't developed the hardcore crush on Jacob that I have now. How surprised she will be to find that her tastes have suddenly changes from one parallel universe to the next...
That black and white suit of Jacob's always makes his hips look weirdly pinched when it's dark. I think it's the white lines that give the illusion of narrowness. One more reason why I wish they would put him in real armor in ME3.

It 's not an illusion. JT has an athletic build. The average man doesn't. Probably a 29 inch waist and broad shoulders. The type of V taper many men wish they had. Although it's a pain to buy a suit that fits right without 'Taylor-ing' (pun intended).

Modifié par CC-Tron, 10 octobre 2011 - 07:12 .

[Darc_Requiem]

JRCHOharry wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Slightly off topic, but there is a "but the prize" line in Dragon Age: Mark of the Assassin. I'm not kidding.

Proof! We need proof!

Modifié par Darc_Requiem, 11 octobre 2011 - 01:59 .