2249 réponses à ce sujet

[Asenza]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

I mean, did they write this because we don't squee and gush often enough? What were they thinking???

They were lazy, or again, couldn't spare the time to work on him, so they ran with the first thing that came up.  They also had fun watching the majority of the fanbase ridicule Jacob for many things that were not his fault, after after a year or so of it, decided they wanted in on it, too.

[jeweledleah]

Asenza wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

I mean, did they write this because we don't squee and gush often enough? What were they thinking???

They were lazy, or again, couldn't spare the time to work on him, so they ran with the first thing that came up.  They also had fun watching the majority of the fanbase ridicule Jacob for many things that were not his fault, after after a year or so of it, decided they wanted in on it, too.

concidering the Mark of the Assasin reference... this rings true :/  sad, but true

[Ryzaki]

The thing though is the priize jokes were harmless and just poking a little fun.

....this though. I don't know what this is. =/

[Mims]

I'm surprised they may go with this. I've known Jacob be quite popular with 'casual' fans of ME. [At least, all my female friends that I got into ME romanced Jacob.] Largely because they started in ME2, and had no connection to Kaidan or Garrus.

I think there's something to be said for a LI breaking it off with a character. But it should be foreshadowed, and it doesn't seem right without a female counterpart. I hope things turn out better.

[JeffZero]

Yeah, I've decided.

Jacob's dying a hero's death on the as-yet-unplayed first file I'll import into ME3. (I want the first to directly precede to capture a strong sense of continuity.)

I'll leave it to BSN to confirm whether or not this was fixed come March and that will determine Jacob's situation in all subsequent files for me. Bleh, metagamin'.

[jeweledleah]

JeffZero wrote...

Yeah, I've decided.

Jacob's dying a hero's death on the as-yet-unplayed first file I'll import into ME3. (I want the first to directly precede to capture a strong sense of continuity.)

I'll leave it to BSN to confirm whether or not this was fixed come March and that will determine Jacob's situation in all subsequent files for me. Bleh, metagamin'.

I'm starting to lean towards this as well.  if this is unavoidable, I'm headcanoning it for Jade that Jacob got crushed by a fallen beam in SM and editing her save.  I do NOT want to edit her save   please don't make me, bioware?

[ADLegend21]

I think I'll do that. I'll start having casualties again.....

[Asenza]

jeweledleah wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Yeah, I've decided.

Jacob's dying a hero's death on the as-yet-unplayed first file I'll import into ME3. (I want the first to directly precede to capture a strong sense of continuity.)

I'll leave it to BSN to confirm whether or not this was fixed come March and that will determine Jacob's situation in all subsequent files for me. Bleh, metagamin'.

I'm starting to lean towards this as well.  if this is unavoidable, I'm headcanoning it for Jade that Jacob got crushed by a fallen beam in SM and editing her save.  I do NOT want to edit her save   please don't make me, bioware?

What the Mark of the Assassin reference?

@Ryzaki,

Yeah, but the rest... his combat skills, his "standoffishness" his looks, what he's wearing, Jennifer Hale's voice acting in those romance scenes....his lack of need for a therapist... his insult to Tali after she bloody started it, his strange aversion to Thane with Zaeed right down the hall...

Modifié par Asenza, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[Ryzaki]

Asenza wrote...@Ryzaki,

Yeah, but the rest... his combat skills, his "standoffishness" his looks, what he's wearing, Jennifer Hale's voice acting in those romance scenes....his lack of need for a therapist... his insult to Tali after she bloody started it, his strange aversion to Thane with Zaeed right down the hall...

Uh what about it? HIs clothes are about as ridculous as Miranda's though true. 

[ADLegend21]

yeah the priize was one thing, but this just a sniper bullet at point blank range. =/

[Asenza]

Ryzaki wrote...

Asenza wrote...@Ryzaki,

Yeah, but the rest... his combat skills, his "standoffishness" his looks, what he's wearing, Jennifer Hale's voice acting in those romance scenes....his lack of need for a therapist... his insult to Tali after she bloody started it, his strange aversion to Thane with Zaeed right down the hall...

Uh what about it? HIs clothes are about as ridculous as Miranda's though true. 

What I meant was that the above was what the fanbase has spent all the time since ME2 going on about. Criticising him for things that for the most part are not parts of his character.

Instead of building more on his character in ME3 the writers did this... thing. For teh lulz. They ignored his fans to cater to those who said he was boring or useless.

Modifié par Asenza, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:34 .

[GameBoyish]

90% of the people who say he's boring or useless either never completed the romance properly or learn to strategize Jacob (he's my fave 2nd tank).

[Xilizhra]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

90% of the people who say he's boring or useless either never completed the romance properly or learn to strategize Jacob (he's my fave 2nd tank).

I just don't see him as being all that useful to a Vanguard, i.e. my only Shepard. His skills are rather redundant.

[thatguy212]

Do the writers hate jacob or something? I mean Morinth only got one real mention in the entire script and it was more flattering then this

[GodWood]

I must confess, if I was a Jacobmancer I probably would get a kick out of this (I usually like my love stories ending with the protaganist being sad and alone for whatever reason)
But doing this to Jacob just seems so ...... odd?

I'd have done it to a more popular character like Liara, Miranda or hell, even Garrus. Far more delicious fan tears.


Oh and Jacob's probably one of my most used squadmates in gameplay.

Modifié par GodWood, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:48 .

[ADLegend21]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

90% of the people who say he's boring or useless either never completed the romance properly or learn to strategize Jacob (he's my fave 2nd tank).

He was money for my vanguards. then again the love charging pulled enemies so they go flying off the maps. he uses pull, they provide the boom.

[jeweledleah]

Asenza wrote...

What the Mark of the Assassin reference?

www.youtube.com/watch

[HK-90210]

THIS BECAME MUCH LONGER THAN I ANTICIPATED. TL;DR FANS MAY WANT TO SKIP TO THE SHORT VERSION.

It is a fact is that the general public was never meant to see these spoilers, which are rough, unfinished and disorganized. So commenting on them is a bit of a disservice to Bioware's writers. As a writer, I know I would never want my rough drafts to see the light of day, much less be put forth for the entire world to see, and be torn apart like the unrefined works that they are. This is done enough with the final product, and I wouldn't want my work being compared to an earlier, incomplete version of itself.

In no way do I think that the spoilers are the final version of ME3. But based on what I've seen in these spoilers in relation to the character of Jacob Taylor, I feel the slight need to vent. So apologies to any Bioware staff reading this if any assumptions that I, or any of my fellow forumites make based on these spoilers are incorrect, mistaken or in any way false. Now, onto the venting.
 
I trust Bioware to do the right thing with their characters. I always have. This is because time and again they have created vivid, memorable characters, who act in ways befitting their general concept in order to advance a wonderful story.

Given that, what I just don't understand is this:

If, and I stress IF, these spoilers are what they appear to be, then I just don't see what the point was in a Jacob romance in the first place. Bioware stories, their romances especially, are about emotional payoff. They are intended to make us experience these things called 'Feelings'. Thane's romance, if Thane does end up dying of his disease, would at least have that. Tear-jerking death scenes are great moments of storytelling. It wouldn't make us feel all happy and tingly(unless, of course, you're a bit of an emotional masochist), but it would be a great story, and we would have gotten something out of experiencing it.

But if Jacob's romance progresses as these spoilers indicate, there appears to be nothing to feel but...being pissed off. And if BW wanted to make us gamers feel that, there are better ways. Ones that do not tarnish a character that some people(though not as many as other characters) actually liked. Not to mention that there are other ways of progressing the romance than what we've seen.

This is a trashy way to treat a character, and from what Jacob's dialogue indicates, he has lost a very key aspect to his character: that of being a consistent, grounded person. If he truly 'Loves' Shepard, as he says he does in the ME2 romance scene(AND HE IS THE ONLY ME2 ROMANCE TO ACTUALLY SAY THAT), then a few months apart would not change that. Not if he is the good, stable person that he appeared to be, or that Bioware wanted us to believe he was.

Nothing else in the spoilers indicates to me that Bioware has lost their touch with their storytelling, so I can only come up with a few select reasons as to why Jacob's romance progression seems to be poor in these spoilers(which I realize are not final or complete).

#1. Bioware, reacting to Jacob's relative unpopularity(even Jacob's greatest fans will admit to him not being as well-liked as most ME characters), felt that this was the best way to get rid of an extraneous character that hardly anyone really liked.
 
#2. Bioware truly believes that this is the right direction to take the character, and it is the way his romance was meant to be. We've been told that these characters are being written and designed by the same team that came up with them in the first place. So if Jacob's story really does happen this way, it is because that was the way it was always going to be.
 
#3. These early, rough and incomplete spoilers aren't telling the whole story, and I as a fan am taking what they out of context. And the final version of ME3 does not contain the Jacob Taylor romance as the spoilers seem to indicate, either due to Bioware having changed how the romance plays out since these spoilers were written, or my own inability to discern what the spoilers are telling me.
 
Of these options, I consider #1 the least likely. I don't believe writers as great as the ones at Bioware would simply rid themselves of a character like Jacob just to save themselves the hassle. If anything, it would be a challenge. One that I'm sure they could have overcome. I do not think Bioware would do this to any of their characters, unpopular or no, unless they truly felt it was the best way to go with the character.
 
Which brings us to #2. If Bioware was always going to go this direction with Jacob's romance, and it was always going to be a relationship that just 'didn't work out', well then I guess I am going to have to stand back, voice my displeasure, and move on. This would not be the first time that Bioware disappointed me as far as their writing went, but it would certainly be a deep wound. I as a player became emotionally invested in a character they created. I liked Jacob Taylor, and felt that there was room for him to grow, and Bioware could have done something truly special with him in ME3, and I would be disappointed that they squandered an opportunity to improve their story. And regardless of their reasons behind it, I would feel that their treatment of Jacob Talyor's character in ME3 would border on the petty and vindictive towards those of us that romanced him in ME2. If he was never meant to be romanced, then his arc wouldn't be that bad. But what I saw in the spoilers left me sickened by the blatant disregard for any way to resolve Jacob's romance positively.
 
This is why I'm hoping that reason #3 is the 'true' scenario. I hope that my interpretations, for whatever reasons, happen to be wrong.  Whether it's because the story in the spoilers has changed, is missing key details, or I am simply reading it wrong, I don't care, as long as it doesn't turn out to be true. I'm hoping that ME3 proves to me that I have simply wasted my time typing this post, and that the impending <4 months of fretting and worry over the fate of a character that I enjoy is going to be something I will look back on and say "Damn, I overreacted. It wasn't as bad as I thought. Man am I stupid."
 
Please Bioware, show me how stupid I really am. I never thought I'd actually ask that of anyone, but there you go.
 
Short Version: It's stupid to comment on these early, incomplete, never-meant-to-be-seen spoilers, but I need to vent. I don't think Bioware would do this to Jacob. I hope they turn out to be wrong. End vent. Hope they don't kill the Priiiize.

Edit: Damn Spelling.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 12 novembre 2011 - 05:50 .

[GameBoyish]

Let's all just hope then. :'(

But to think that they had the nerve to put that as an idea is just disturbing.

[ADLegend21]

^pretty much that.

it's like lining up the shot for the assasination just because you can. Where's Irikah Krios to tell the writers "how dare you!"

[Ieldra]

Hi everyone.

I was going to post that I don't believe what's in the spoilers is the whole story and why, but CastonFolarus already said most of it. So I'll just add a few things.

Sure, if we romance a Bioware character, we aren't guaranteed a happy ending. But so far, we've always had a good ending - good in the sense that it left us with something and felt meaningful. When Morrigan went off in DAO, she gave the Warden a ring. It was never clear if what you felt through that ring was real, but the love between Morrigan and the Warden continued to exist and you could imagine that you'd meet again somewhen in the future after whatever was more important to her was resolved - or you could choose to remember the good times since you parted with your love intact. In BG2, Viconia was assassinated in the end but she and the protagonist had a reasonably long happy time together before it happened. Thane's is a tragic romance but those who romanced him always knew what to expect. All these ends are not exactly happy ends, but they are good ends. They leave you with hope, with a remembrance of happy times tinged with grief or something similar, but however sad the ending might be, they all feel meaningful.

But so far, Bioware has never given anyone a downer ending, something that make you feel like you're the butt of a bad joke or some petty or vindictive streak on the part of the writer. What's in the spoiler files feels like that, and I will not believe it's final until I see it in the game.

I've also thought about, if it's true, who to blame for this mess. I've never been a hardcore fan of Jacob and I'm still not, but I have one femShep who romanced him and because of that, I know that if you disregard the "prize" line, his romance is the best femShep romance in ME2. But I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't tried the romance against everyone's recommendation (the reason was that I dislike the idea of interspecies romance). His romance is so tainted by the "prize" line that the good parts are never mentioned by anyone who's not already a fan. So, whoever came up with the "prize" line, if you're reading this: you've ruined a good character and managed to hide his good qualities behind a mask of cheap sexism. Better think a little more about what you write the next time.

Anyway, I don't know what exactly to expect. I don't think there must be a happy ending, but at least one that leaves some hope for the future of Shepard and Jacob, or at the very, very, least an emotionally clean cut instead of a ragged one, something that doesn't leave you with hate - of the character or the writer - the feeling of being cheated by the writers or pissed off every time you think of what happened. To my knowledge, that would be the first time Bioware did that.

So let's hope they won't start.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 novembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[Xilizhra]

So, whoever came up with the "prize" line, if you're reading this: you've ruined a good character and managed to hide his good qualities behind a mask of cheap sexism. Better think a little more about what you write the next time.

Wait, what? Wherein lies the sexism?

[Asenza]

@CastonFolarus,

First off, nice post.

***Some spoilers might follow.***

You are right to say that we're taking this out of context, but how would the information we see here make sense in any context? Would it ever be alright if Tali or Garrus came up to Shepard in ME3 and was like, "You see, what had happened was... ?"

If you start out with, "Jacob does something deliberately that will break the relationship" how is it going to get better with more details, when we know that no other LI does something like that? It doesn't help that the bits and pieces of conversation included in the leak further damage his character as we knew him in ME2, not rationalize and explain his actions.

The other part about this information is that we, the players, would find all this out the same time Shepard does- when she finally meets Jacob again. There's no other way to put it. Shepard might not be completely railroaded out of the relationship, but we'll have to make our Shepard fight their way back into a relationship that was stable the last they saw of it, and that's assuming that anyone would want Jacob back, still.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...
They will not just kick Jacobmancers to the curb. That or they will, and we'll have to hit'em with the good stuff.

That made me smile

Oh and somebody wanted to see Jacob dump a pushy FemShep?
Summary (slight exagerration)
"You okay Jacob?"
"Yeah. I don't hold on to the past."
"NOOO JACOB YOU MUST HAVE FEELINGS TOO I WANNA HELP"
"<_<"

He says he wants to be with Shepard BECAUSE SHE'S A SOLDIER TOO. That's another reason the *ME3 spoiler* is serious derailment!!!

PS: Jacobmancers, please thumbs up all available pro-Jacob comments at the video. Thumbs down the racist stuff. And the anti-Jacob stuff too. Add more positive comments if you wish.

PPS: Oh and are you sending tweets to Casey? Don't forget to mention #JacobIsTheGoodStuff

I've never really liked Jacob, apart from that one time he saved my life by lifting a Krogan. Although that was gameplay and out of character I tried to roleplay being grateful and he was just too... Jacob. and seemed a bit disrespectful compared to the rest of the lot. But he is extremely admirable in the video, if only that was actually reflected elsewhere (ie. you don'need his LM for him to get plot armour or something). I'm starting to appreciate how Jacob alleviates the "I'm Commander Shepard and I'm the centre of the universe" syndrome and might have to stop stonewalling him. Still dunno about a romance though, but that's femshep's fault more than anything...

Cool DevianTart Trivia.

I like how thread is spread liberally with spoilers in contrast to the other fanthreads. That bad huh?

[Asenza]

@fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb,

Even in the outdated information, no one else was abused as Jacob was.