23 réponses à ce sujet

[brenan728]

The ME3 demos from E3 left me awe inspired,

but also alittle confused in regards to the plot.

The conclusion-

1. The events of ME3 are based upon the player's choices from the previous two games- which would make any plot speculation based on the demos pointless- because the choices of the demo shep were never specified- the missions we saw could be completely different in another context.

2. On the other hand, some gaming magazines, i.e. the latest UK edition of PS3 magazine- are claiming that the events in the E3 demo are canon- they occur without any influence from the player's decisions

and that wouldn't be a problem except the canon (and or) choice influenced plot event from the demo makes no sense. 
_______________

The demo where shepard tries to destroy a grounded reaper is confirmed to take place on Rannoch (quarian home world) and with the Migrant Fleet in orbit preparing an invasion.

Other media depicting the same location shows that shepard is fighting the geth on the planet

In game dialogue mentions that the reaper is protected by a Geth Blast Shield.


These facts all seem to suggest that the Geth on Rannoch are allied with and sheltering reapers-
which is very unusual considering that the heretic geth are located OUTSIDE the perseus veil,
and that Rannoch is well within the territory of the True Geth- who according to legion, are hostile to the reapers.

Such a situation is concievable if the player made certain choices in ME2

But the June Issue of the UK Edition of PS3 magazine that the events depicted in the demo are canon- therefore not a part of the choices-

if this is true- then it contradicts much of what ME2 suggested about the geth. 


Does anyone have information that may clarify this plot event? confirm it as cannon, or otherwise?

Any speculations as to how this could be explained?

[Rake21]

Well, the Heritic choice came down to *spoiler* reprograming or exploding

Reprograming: Legion tells Shepard (if he goes with the blowing up choice) that there is no way to be certain that the Heritics won't come to the same conclusion about the Reapers being gods, and the true source of the Geth future. After being brought back into the fold, the Heritic Geth fall back into the Reaper's sway and take over a large chunk of the Quarian Homeworld. With the Help of the Reapers, they begin to reprogram more Geth and their numbers grow.

This would be a great way for a Paragon choice to back fire

Exploding: The tattered remnants of the Heritic forces join the Reapers. They, along with an army of Husks and Cerberus operatives manage to gain a foothold on the Quarian homeworld, and are firmly entrenched.

In both cases, Shepard has to deal with a formitable force, though different in makeup. In one, it's a primarily Geth army, while in the other its a stew of different people that want to kill Shepard. In either case, itexplains why the commander needs to be there.

[Spectre_907]

In this demo, they confirm that the geth are working with the Reapers. It seems largely irrespective of your choice of rewrite or destroy.

[Rake21]

Arcian wrote...

@Rake21: "Exploding: The tattered remnants of the Heritic forces join the Reapers."

There are no Heretics left if you choose to destroy them. The virus wrecks every single heretic geth unit and completely and permanently disables them.

Also, the Heretics left by choice, not by being programmed. The only way the Reapers could sway them would be through the use of the Heretic-created virus that Legion and Shepard used against the Heretics, and I believe they destroyed that virus after reprogramming/destroying them.

Like I said, Legion mentions that there's no garuntee that the Heretics won't come to the same conclusion about the Reapers being right if you choose the renegade option.

Also, if you talk to him after the mission, he'll say that there might be a small number of Heritics left/

[FluffyScarf]

'Gaming' magazines are notorious for poor reporting. Not the best source.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 14 juin 2011 - 01:04 .

[Rake21]

Rake21 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

@Rake21: "Exploding: The tattered remnants of the Heritic forces join the Reapers."

There are no Heretics left if you choose to destroy them. The virus wrecks every single heretic geth unit and completely and permanently disables them.

Also, the Heretics left by choice, not by being programmed. The only way the Reapers could sway them would be through the use of the Heretic-created virus that Legion and Shepard used against the Heretics, and I believe they destroyed that virus after reprogramming/destroying them.

Like I said, Legion mentions that there's no garuntee that the Heretics won't come to the same conclusion about the Reapers being right if you choose the renegade option.

Also, if you talk to him after the mission, he'll say that there might be a small number of Heritics left/

Case and point:



Jump to about 7 min 35 sec

[TheCrakFox]

I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare is being intentionally misleading with plot details at this point.

[Medhia Nox]

Ooohh... I can get my Warhammer 40K on...

KILL THE HERETIC!

Ahem... sorry.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Spectre_907 wrote...

In this demo, they confirm that the geth are working with the Reapers. It seems largely irrespective of your choice of rewrite or destroy.

Yes the geth are working with the Reapers that is why Legion is there helping you? I like this human he doesn't understand

I think it is too early to judge a decision based on a tiny demo, seeing as that scene might play out different depending on choices made (one obvious one being Legion)

[brenan728]

Spectre_907 wrote...

In this demo, they confirm that the geth are working with the Reapers. It seems largely irrespective of your choice of rewrite or destroy.

My point exactly Spectre!

what is said to be canon and what is logical contradict-

However, its occured to me there is an explantion

- it would be a plot spoiler to those who have not played me2 to mention that there are 2 factions of geth.
as far as anyone whose only played ME1 knows- all geth are reaper supporters

so in all fairness to those players, I think bioware said "the geth are working for the reapers"  as a generaliation, and simply hide the plot twist of ME 2

[Medhia Nox]

There are still Heretic geth... evidently really big ones.

It would make sense that they would draw the remaining Heretic Geth to the Qunari homeworld.

So - "The Heretic Geth are still working with the Reapers" wouldn't have anything to do with your decisions because the numbers of Geth you fight will never be "too many to make sense". ((You'll kill probably a hundred or two throughout the missions. That's hardly game breaking inconsistency.))

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 14 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Medhia Nox wrote...

There are still Heretic geth... evidently really big ones.

It would make sense that they would draw the remaining Heretic Geth to the Qunari homeworld.

So - "The Heretic Geth are still working with the Reapers" wouldn't have anything to do with your decisions because the numbers of Geth you fight will never be "too many to make sense". ((You'll kill probably a hundred or two throughout the missions. That's hardly game breaking inconsistency.))

Er... evidently really big ones? You are aware that thing that comes out of the Geth base in that demo is a Reaper right?

[Medhia Nox]

Where does it say it's a Reaper? I'll have to go watch it again. The guy says: "The Geth are working with the Reapers... and this is a Geth base."

The Geth have been working with the Reapers for two games now - they don't have Reapers with them though.

=====

In fact - if that's not a Geth, there are no Geth at all in that Geth base. Since those soldiers aren't Geth.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 14 juin 2011 - 01:27 .

[brenan728]

 Indeed,

it could be too early to try and deduce the plot, even for gaming magazines,
doesn't help that the context of the demos was kept vague

alas, my explanation?

Facts:

1. Re-writting Heretics = Almost complete elimination of them.
    Blowing up the Station = There will definitely still be Heretics

the virus used to re-write the heretics was of reaper design- therefore it would defintiely be extremely potent and most likely be irreversible (like indoctrination). Broadcasting that to all the heretic stations would simply devastate them

blowing up a single station however would only eliminate a relatively small number

2. According to Legion during his loyalty mission, the heretics have placed spies and infiltrators within the true geth

3. the true geth do not maintain any major forces on the former quarian worlds. all of their armies and fleets are in space stations


Given these facts- it seems very plausible that the heretic geth (if not re-written) could join the reaper fleet;  Use their infiltrators within the true geth to sneak the reapers into geth space undetected; and then easily overpower the true geth that are planetside.

to what end? Since the reaper in the demo was hiding- my guess is that the heretics, reapers, and cerberus were planing to ambush the migrant fleet, true geth, and or shepard from the planet.

even without heretic support, it would still be a very plausible conclusion
 

[Medhia Nox]

Reapers can talk... not make big honking sounds. Plus - unless the race it took over had only one eye (not impossible) - it has the Geth flashlight eye. I still think it's a Geth.

It's a dormant uber-Geth you were trying to destroy... only the orbital strike just wakes it up.

((Unless it is stating in some other article or video that it's a Reaper - it does not state such a thing in the demo video. It's just speculation because it's a big robot - and Reapers are big robots.))

[brenan728]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Reapers can talk... not make big honking sounds. Plus - unless the race it took over had only one eye (not impossible) - it has the Geth flashlight eye. I still think it's a Geth.

It's a dormant uber-Geth you were trying to destroy... only the orbital strike just wakes it up.

((Unless it is stating in some other article or video that it's a Reaper - it does not state such a thing in the demo video. It's just speculation because it's a big robot - and Reapers are big robots.))

I thought that too- but I don't think so-

constructing a reaper is a massive effort- it took several colony-fulls of humans to make just a small part of a reaper.
as EDI stated, it would take much more than even that number of humans to complete the reaper-

I don't think there are enough heretic geth in exsistence to both maintain forces and build a reaper.

Also, only the cream of the crop (so to speak) races are turned into reapers- and in dialogue from harbinger itself, as well as disscussions of sovereign's feeling on geth- its very clear that the reapers are unintrested in the geth- even disdainful of them. Therefore they wouldn't even bother making one.

Finally, reapers do talk- but they also can make noises similiar to geth- note the reaper noises from the ME3 trailers as well as sovereign in the Me1 battle of the citadel cutscenes 

[Medhia Nox]

@brenan728 - you misunderstand me. It's not a Reaper at all... just a really big, new version of Geth.

The Geth have been working for the Reapers since ME 1 - that's nothing new.

It would make sense that an uber-Geth is dormant on the Quarian homeworld for when the Quarians try to retake their planet.

So - unless specifically stated by a developer - I'm standing by my opinion that it's just a gigantic Geth.

[Rake21]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@brenan728 - you misunderstand me. It's not a Reaper at all... just a really big, new version of Geth.

The Geth have been working for the Reapers since ME 1 - that's nothing new.

It would make sense that an uber-Geth is dormant on the Quarian homeworld for when the Quarians try to retake their planet.

So - unless specifically stated by a developer - I'm standing by my opinion that it's just a gigantic Geth.

Shepard yells "It's not a Reaper Base!  It's A Reaper!"

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Rake21 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@brenan728 - you misunderstand me. It's not a Reaper at all... just a really big, new version of Geth.

The Geth have been working for the Reapers since ME 1 - that's nothing new.

It would make sense that an uber-Geth is dormant on the Quarian homeworld for when the Quarians try to retake their planet.

So - unless specifically stated by a developer - I'm standing by my opinion that it's just a gigantic Geth.

Shepard yells "It's not a Reaper Base!  It's A Reaper!"

Annd...

as you asked for a dev to state so... here is Casey hudson to say it..



Case closed, it IS a Reaper and it IS a reaper base.

Further evidence to prove this... they used the Sovereign music during the scene in the demo. I really don't know how much clearer it can be made to you Medhia

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 14 juin 2011 - 02:16 .

[Medhia Nox]

I stand corrected - though in the link provided by Specter_907 the quote: "It's not a Reaper base, it's a live Reaper." is missing (which is why I missed it) and - the host calls it a Geth base not a Reaper base. The one you provide Sir Ulrich - obviously contains a more reputable source.

As a note though - you must clearly like Renegade responses. The character who's name you're borrow is far less snide than you are. Clearly - while you only enjoy the character's name.

To answer your question - I need it made no more clearer.

[Thompson family]

I don't doubt much of what you said, brenan728, but at least one of your statements is very important and I'd like to see a source cited for it:

brenan728 wrote...

The demo where shepard tries to destroy a grounded reaper is confirmed to take place on Rannoch ...

Source? Link?

On the speculative side, it is perfectly possible that the Geth did not "reach consensus" when the Reapers arrived and the full force of the invasion became clear. Some went the "Vichy" route for collaboration and others went "Free French," resisting the invaders. Shep could tilt the balance -- particularly if he/she can show the Reapers can be fought.