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[CrutchCricket]

ToaOrka wrote...

My god I love Kasumi, although she always seemed more like a quirky best friend than love interest, besides, she wants Jacob...

No. Jacob is a mere crush. The thought of it is infuriating. Especially given how things play out with him in ME3.

But anyway I am not personally inclined to romance her. I see her as a best friend/ right hand as well. But I support the option and believe that if done right, it could be one of the best romances in the entire series.

[ToaOrka]

CrutchCricket wrote...

ToaOrka wrote...

My god I love Kasumi, although she always seemed more like a quirky best friend than love interest, besides, she wants Jacob...

No. Jacob is a mere crush. The thought of it is infuriating. Especially given how things play out with him in ME3.

But anyway I am not personally inclined to romance her. I see her as a best friend/ right hand as well. But I support the option and believe that if done right, it could be one of the best romances in the entire series.

No question about it, helping her recover after Keiji, seeing her gradually open herself up to you (Kelly mentions she never reveals anything meaningful about herself), it'd be quite spectacular, on par with Tali, Jack, Thane, and Garrus even.

[Master Shiori]

CrutchCricket wrote...


No. Jacob is a mere crush. The thought of it is infuriating.

I'm not sure if he's even a crush. To me, it seems more like a joke.

I mean, Kasumi isn't exactly shy, so if she was really inerested in Jacob she'd probably find a way to let him know that, instead of constantly remarking about it to Shep.

[LanceSolous13]

It seems like she never did based off her comment that Jacob could get her back to the Normandy.

I think its slightly a bit of her getting over Keiji. She's trying to move on by latching herself onto (potentially) the oposite of Keiji but never does anything with it because she isn't over him yet.

[Master Shiori]

LanceSolous13 wrote...


I don't see what she likes in Jacob, though, the way she talks about it, It might be a matter of lust, to put it bluntly.

Kasumi liking Jacob is more of a joke on Bioware's part, since Jacob was the east popular male LI in ME2. Guess they wanted to add someone who actually liked the poor guy.

[Mechler]

east popular? Well, eastern ladies do like him

[Terrorize69]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

ToaOrka wrote...

My god I love Kasumi, although she always seemed more like a quirky best friend than love interest, besides, she wants Jacob...

Oh. Ditto. Though, Tali and Garrus are looked to like that and they're two of the most popular romances.

This, both Tali and Garrus are like.. Shep's BFFs, been with him/her from the start, and both make great LIs. Also, if not romanced, they get together themselves. Could have the same for Kasumi, if she doesn't get romanced she continues having her lil "joker crush" on Jacob.. If Shepard romances her then she's like "Whos Jacob?"

[CrutchCricket]

Master Shiori wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...


I don't see what she likes in Jacob, though, the way she talks about it, It might be a matter of lust, to put it bluntly.

Kasumi liking Jacob is more of a joke on Bioware's part, since Jacob was the east popular male LI in ME2. Guess they wanted to add someone who actually liked the poor guy.

lol. I don't know if I fully believe this but I like the thought of it enough to try.

Othewise the alternative.... well implications unpleasant.

For ME3 it seems like they didn't know what to do with her. There is nothing new to her character (except for the resentment) and everything about her appearance seems to be a throw back. Hah, she cloaks and follows you around, remember that? Oh look she really likes to steal stuff. She's a thief you know. Oh look it's the greybox and her dead boyfriend that was her motivation doncha know? Remember that joke about her having crush on Jacob? Referenced!

Then again all ME2 characters with the exception of Mordin and Jack (and Jacob, amusingly) got the same treatment so I don't know what I was expecting. I'd be fine with a neutral appearance if she didn't sound like she hated me for ME2.

[Mechler]

Pff. Not knowing what to do with her? A short scroll of these pages and Bioware could get enough content for another Mass Effect trilogy

[CrutchCricket]

Yes, well... disinterest is the other half of that equation. Can't let these uppity ME2 character take screentime away from our ME1 celebrities can we?

[Master Shiori]

CrutchCricket wrote...

 I'd be fine with a neutral appearance if she didn't sound like she hated me for ME2.

I don't think she hates Shep in ME3. After all, you helped her avenge her dead boyfriend and get his greybox back.

The problem is that, unlike most other squadmates, Kasumi lacks military training and experience. She prefers to use her skills and cloaking abilities to avoid confrontation whenever neccesary. But in ME2, you dragged her into a situation where even hardened veterans have a good chance of dying, let alone someone like Kasumi. 

So, knowing what kind of a mess Sheps gets into on regular basis, it's understandable that she wouldn't come aboard the Normandy, especially since her skills aren't going to be of much use against something like Reapers.

"I can't break into a Reaper base and steal a big "I WIN" bomb for you, Shep!!"


Now if you needed to, say, infiltrate a Cerberus base and steal something from there (like that server; how the hell did she drag that out without anyone noticing?!), Kasumi would be the right person for the job. But fighting abominations in the ruins of Tuchanka or Thessia? Not really her speciality.

[Mechler]

Master Shiori wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

 I'd be fine with a neutral appearance if she didn't sound like she hated me for ME2.

I don't think she hates Shep in ME3. After all, you helped her avenge her dead boyfriend and get his greybox back.

The problem is that, unlike most other squadmates, Kasumi lacks military training and experience. She prefers to use her skills and cloaking abilities to avoid confrontation whenever neccesary. But in ME2, you dragged her into a situation where even hardened veterans have a good chance of dying, let alone someone like Kasumi. 

So, knowing what kind of a mess Sheps gets into on regular basis, it's understandable that she wouldn't come aboard the Normandy, especially since her skills aren't going to be of much use against something like Reapers.

"I can't break into a Reaper base and steal a big "I WIN" bomb for you, Shep!!"


Now if you needed to, say, infiltrate a Cerberus base and steal something from there (like that server; how the hell did she drag that out without anyone noticing?!), Kasumi would be the right person for the job. But fighting abominations in the ruins of Tuchanka or Thessia? Not really her speciality.

Well Liara was a pacifist scientist when she was recruited. EDI also had absolutel yno experience with ground battles untill her new body. Thane was also an assasin not one to battle an army of collectors(Deadliest warriors Season 1 Spartan vs NInja). Face it! ALL argument sagainst KAsumi being a full squadmate anbd LI are invalid

[Mechler]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Yes, well... disinterest is the other half of that equation. Can't let these uppity ME2 character take screentime away from our ME1 celebrities can we?

Quite right. After all Garrus, Tali and Liara had their fanbases before Legion Thane and Kasumi were even thought of.. Clearly theyí re supperior. If I could choose who to keep from ME3 squad it would be Javik and Vega. Liara only for the Shepard who romanced her 

[Master Shiori]

Mechler wrote...


Well Liara was a pacifist scientist when she was recruited. EDI also had absolutel yno experience with ground battles untill her new body. Thane was also an assasin not one to battle an army of collectors(Deadliest warriors Season 1 Spartan vs NInja). Face it! ALL argument sagainst KAsumi being a full squadmate anbd LI are invalid

Liara changed quite a bit from ME1 to ME3. 

EDI's problem was a lack of a body.

Thane is used to fighting people. The difference is, he prefers to get a jump on them. Doesn't mean he cannot do a straight up fight as well.


And I'm not against Kasumi being a squadmate. Quite the opposite. I'm simply explaining why, from the story pov, she'd be against returning to the Normandy. 
The only real reason why she didn't rejoin Shepard in ME3 is because the tech expert spots were already taken (EDI and Tali).

[CrutchCricket]

Master Shiori wrote...
I don't think she hates Shep in ME3. After all, you helped her avenge her dead boyfriend and get his greybox back.

The problem is that, unlike most other squadmates, Kasumi lacks military training and experience. She prefers to use her skills and cloaking abilities to avoid confrontation whenever neccesary. But in ME2, you dragged her into a situation where even hardened veterans have a good chance of dying, let alone someone like Kasumi. 

So, knowing what kind of a mess Sheps gets into on regular basis, it's understandable that she wouldn't come aboard the Normandy, especially since her skills aren't going to be of much use against something like Reapers.

"I can't break into a Reaper base and steal a big "I WIN" bomb for you, Shep!!"


Now if you needed to, say, infiltrate a Cerberus base and steal something from there (like that server; how the hell did she drag that out without anyone noticing?!), Kasumi would be the right person for the job. But fighting abominations in the ruins of Tuchanka or Thessia? Not really her speciality.

Well no, perhaps not "hates". But there is resentment. And it's not about refusing to join in ME3. I can accept the reason she gives. But it also makes a difference how you say it. Things like tone of voice. She sounds almost angry.

I will admit I'm more affected by it than some people because I headcanoned a pretty deep (but not romantic) bond between Shepard and Kasumi. And the ME3 dialogue is completely incompatible with that. I have yet to find a way to reconcile the two and it's not like I'm not trying. But even without them being BFF it still doesn't look good.

First line (in response to Shepard saying he can clear her name): "What, if I join up? Last time I did that you dragged me into a suicide mission." The was she said this came off as far too resentful. I could see her saying it in jest but she didn't sound like she was joking.

Second line: "It all comes down to this war and you trying to bring everyone into it."  Really, Kasumi? This galaxy-wide fight for the survival of all sentient life, this is what I'm trying to drag you and others into? We get a bit of a break when Shepard himself calls her out on it. Her response for a kept greybox is atrocious, I won't even think about it. If the greybox is destroyed she gives the "can't steal an I win bomb" speech, which admittedly is the best part of that exchange. But everything else in that 2nd conversation is not only a emotional gut-punch to the Kasumi fan but also a tarnish on her character. Notice too that she comes back to it, not Shepard. For all we know he could've been willing to let it go.

Third line: "There's no way you're recruiting me to fight in a galactic war." Again the tone of voice is the most damning.  If the delivery had been more light-hearted it might've made a huge difference.

Playing through the first time I remember thinking Kasumi's reasoning was one of the best justifications a character gave for not joining up. But all the stuff around it is unbearable. If she could've just taken things more in stride, adoped a more joking or just a softer tone, that combined with a few line tweaks could've worked wonders.

You can keep the first line but change to tone to half-joking.
Remove the second line completely. After they finish hacking the terminal Kasumi can go right into her speech: "I appreciate you helping me with the greybox but..."
Change the third line to "I'm not a soldier Shep. I can't fight the things you fight. I can only get out of your way." or something along those lines. With Shepard immediately suggesting work on the Crucible it shows he's understanding of the situation as well.

[Mechler]

Master Shiori wrote...

Mechler wrote...


Well Liara was a pacifist scientist when she was recruited. EDI also had absolutel yno experience with ground battles untill her new body. Thane was also an assasin not one to battle an army of collectors(Deadliest warriors Season 1 Spartan vs NInja). Face it! ALL argument sagainst KAsumi being a full squadmate anbd LI are invalid

Liara changed quite a bit from ME1 to ME3. 

EDI's problem was a lack of a body.

Thane is used to fighting people. The difference is, he prefers to get a jump on them. Doesn't mean he cannot do a straight up fight as well.


And I'm not against Kasumi being a squadmate. Quite the opposite. I'm simply explaining why, from the story pov, she'd be against returning to the Normandy. 
The only real reason why she didn't rejoin Shepard in ME3 is because the tech expert spots were already taken (EDI and Tali).

Exactly. They have changed to fit better into the story. Same could be done to her. Was it Karpyhsyn who designed Kasumi back in 2? That would explain why she acts like ME2 Virmire Survivor.

[Master Shiori]

CrutchCricket wrote...


Well no, perhaps not "hates". But there is resentment. And it's not about refusing to join in ME3. I can accept the reason she gives. But it also makes a difference how you say it. Things like tone of voice. She sounds almost angry.

I will admit I'm more affected by it than some people because I headcanoned a pretty deep (but not romantic) bond between Shepard and Kasumi. And the ME3 dialogue is completely incompatible with that. I have yet to find a way to reconcile the two and it's not like I'm not trying. But even without them being BFF it still doesn't look good.

First line (in response to Shepard saying he can clear her name): "What, if I join up? Last time I did that you dragged me into a suicide mission." The was she said this came off as far too resentful. I could see her saying it in jest but she didn't sound like she was joking.

Second line: "It all comes down to this war and you trying to bring everyone into it."  Really, Kasumi? This galaxy-wide fight for the survival of all sentient life, this is what I'm trying to drag you and others into? We get a bit of a break when Shepard himself calls her out on it. Her response for a kept greybox is atrocious, I won't even think about it. If the greybox is destroyed she gives the "can't steal an I win bomb" speech, which admittedly is the best part of that exchange. But everything else in that 2nd conversation is not only a emotional gut-punch to the Kasumi fan but also a tarnish on her character. Notice too that she comes back to it, not Shepard. For all we know he could've been willing to let it go.

Third line: "There's no way you're recruiting me to fight in a galactic war." Again the tone of voice is the most damning.  If the delivery had been more light-hearted it might've made a huge difference.

Playing through the first time I remember thinking Kasumi's reasoning was one of the best justifications a character gave for not joining up. But all the stuff around it is unbearable. If she could've just taken things more in stride, adoped a more joking or just a softer tone, that combined with a few line tweaks could've worked wonders.

You can keep the first line but change to tone to half-joking.
Remove the second line completely. After they finish hacking the terminal Kasumi can go right into her speech: "I appreciate you helping me with the greybox but..."
Change the third line to "I'm not a soldier Shep. I can't fight the things you fight. I can only get out of your way." or something along those lines. With Shepard immediately suggesting work on the Crucible it shows he's understanding of the situation as well.

I get your point.


Now, personally I didn't interpret her tone as being angry. At least, not truly angry like she was when talking to Donovan Hock. 

But that's just me.

[CrutchCricket]

Master Shiori wrote...
Now, personally I didn't interpret her tone as being angry. At least, not truly angry like she was when talking to Donovan Hock. 

Well, no certainly not the same. I think she does hate Hock for what he's done. Emotions are running unchecked there.

But with ME3 its more of a passive... resentment. That's really the only word I can think of that describes it. And ultimately I could even be fine with that if it was done right. I think what really bothers me when you get to the core of it is the blocking of headcanons like mine where you imagine the two of them getting close, even if just as friends.

There can be resentment between friends, something like "I trusted you but you lead us into trouble so now I'm on my guard when you suggest crazy schemes". But  the vibe in ME3 is "I worked for you and hated it, there's no way I'm coming back". It just completely kills it.

It really is the opposite of Liara. With Liara you have no choice but to be friends. With Kasumi it seems you can't.

I'd give a lot to have the lines tweaked, even if just enough to allow an interpretation that you're friends.

[Ghost]

Mechler wrote...

Pff. Not knowing what to do with her? A short scroll of these pages and Bioware could get enough content for another Mass Effect trilogy

lol

[giftfish]

Attention Kasumi fans!

As a result of the popularity of the Romance DLC thread and polls on BSN and HTL, folks over at HTL have combined all the suggestions and made a new, more in depth survey. 

It will only take 5 minutes of your time, unless you like to make comments, and we hope to get even more responses than on the BSN polls.

Results will be analyzed, summarized into a report, and sent to Bioware.

If you want to be heard on this issue, this is the best way to do it!

Please take the survey and spread the word!!

[CrutchCricket]

Thanks, survey completed!

And would you believe I totally forgot to add comments about Kasumi's lines? If anyone else feels the same as I do about them, please mention it!

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 05 juillet 2012 - 01:41 .

[CrutchCricket]

Me too. She's had account problems though. I tried to talk her through some tech support but I haven't heard back in a while. If you want to try she left an email on page 99.

[LanceSolous13]

I would say its posisble that the Suicide Mission might have shocked her mentally a bit. Pragia (Jack's Loyalty Mission) and the troture of the children there SENDS HER TO TEARS. And then the Collector Base. Seeing someone MELT and get pumped into a Reaper Fetus. She may be just like Dr. Chakwas, fine at the moment but a bit scarred later.

Kasumi is a theif. The Galexy's greatest. She's also, what, 20? Her line of work doesn't involve seeing digusting things like the Collector's Base. Everyone else is very much used to killing and seeing the disturbing things like this in person. Maybe she stole some information about this kind of thing, but never witnessed it.

Later when you call her at the London Outpost, She and Shepard are definatly friends, promising to buy drinks if he's still alive. Might be a bit of fan ******/headcanon but maybe She was just looking for any excuse to not see more of what she saw during the suicide mission.

I'd definatly love to see more of her later. Would be interesting if doing that side mission would later unlock a Mission Arc or something.