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No Shepard Without Vakarian: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#2676
AdmiralCheez

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Quething wrote...

On the other hand, it would be a really nice bit of character growth if he got to finally reciprocate in ME3. Like if you're strongly paragon, and convinced Garrus to spare Saleon and Sidonis, and you're about to do something totally renegade, I would love to see Garrus get, basically, a "paragon interrupt" of his own, where he grabs Shep's gun and says "this isn't you, don't do this."

This.

I really think challenging Shepard is the one thing Garrus has to do to fully mature as a character.  He needs to stand on his own, and use those morals and values he's finally made sense of to make his own calls.

What I really, really want to see is a Wrexian confrontation between Shep and Garrus.  I think it should build up steadily throughout the game, depending on what path you've nudged Garrus down and what path you personally choose.  ReneGarrus might question why you're being so soft and not showing enough balls to stop the bad guys, while ParaGarrus might become concerned with how easily you're willing to sacrifice innocents or whatever.  The breaking point for this might be some Palaven-related thing, possibly involving Garrus doubling back to try to save the people that didn't evacuate in time despite the area being overrun with indoctrinated thralls (paragon) or advocating blowing an entire settlement before they all fall prey to some sort of indoctrination device or whatever, despite all the people still dug in and fighting (renegade).  Disagree with him, and it escalates into a huge fight between Shep and Garrus.

This has four outcomes:
-The fight becomes physical and Garrus gets himself shot (renegade).
-Garrus and Shepard accept that they're not going to agree, and he goes off on his own and gets himself killed (neutral).
-Shepard changes his/her position and agrees to do it how Garrus wants (paragon).
-Mad persuasion skillz, Garrus agrees to do it your way but makes it clear he doesn't like the idea.

So, you've chosen to go into the settlement and either set the bomb or rescue the "civilians" (in quotes because y'all know about turian culture).  Either way, it's on a timer: if you don't get the hell out after setting the bomb, you die.  If you don't get the "civilians" escorted out in time, everybody gets indoctrinated and hello critical mission failure.  Also, for both, you get the help of the turian military.

Outcomes of either mission path:
-Paragon: You saved the non-combatants) but the bulk of the indoctrinated thralls are still alive and too much for the local military to handle.  The stronghold has to be evacuated and Palaven loses more ground to the Reapers.
-Renegade: You blow the settlement and eliminate the indoctrinated threat, allowing the turians to maintain their defensive position.  However, you just murdered hundreds of innocents.

I have no idea how much of this made any sense, but whatever.

EDIT: Originally, I had the Vakarians among the people you'd be going back in to save, but that's way too much drama for Garrus.  Instead, let's say Solana is a member of the turian unit that will be helping you and she survives either way.  Yaaay.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 09 octobre 2011 - 01:20 .


#2677
Indigo the Cat

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Zakatak757 wrote...
All I am saying is that Garrus shouldn't have 2 personalities/preferences depending on which Shepard you pick. If he isn't romancable by male Shepard, why would he be later on? Garrus seems like a straight character to me and I think he should be. I believe Vega was brought in for the S/S issue.


This argument makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily fit the situation.  There's really no concrete reason why Garrus shouldn't be bisexual in nature, yet keep in mind that Shepard is the one who initiates the romances in Mass Effect 2, not your squadmates.  So really, the question is why should male Shepard be bisexual, if male Shepard was not bisexual before?

Sexual Oriention isn't always set in stone, and it can change, though most often the "change" is more of a personal realization.

Also, as someone posted before, Garrus is obviously smitten enough with female Shepard's advances that he commits xenophilia with her.  If he's willing to have "cross-species-intercourse," what's to say he's against same-sex intercourse?  Sometimes, the brightest light of truth is in the dimmest lit corner.  Garrus has never spoken about same-sex encounters or any apparent lack of interest in them.  He's also never been presented with the opportunity to explore it as far as the player/Shepard knows.

#2678
AdmiralCheez

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My two cents on Gayrus: I don't care. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to "swing that way," but who someone is and how they behave actually has very little bearing on their sexuality. If there's no bi-Garrus, fine since I only pursue him as FemShep, but the bromance better be damn good to make up for those of us that still really, really like the guy. If Garrus is indeed bi, that's also fine, but it had better be well done and the bromance STILL has to be excellent because not everyone wants to screw Garrus.

Well, they secretly do, but they are in denial and we don't want to cruelly force the truth on them.

#2679
Collider

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If he's willing to have "cross-species-intercourse," what's to say he's against same-sex intercourse?

That's not remotely comparable.
The romanceable alien species in the game so far has shown to adhere to the same sexual dimorphism as humans.

#2680
Tootles FTW

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Quething wrote...

On the other hand, it would be a really nice bit of character growth if he got to finally reciprocate in ME3. Like if you're strongly paragon, and convinced Garrus to spare Saleon and Sidonis, and you're about to do something totally renegade, I would love to see Garrus get, basically, a "paragon interrupt" of his own, where he grabs Shep's gun and says "this isn't you, don't do this."


Thissss!  This times a million-billion! 

I mostly play all paragon or all renegade, so I would love it if I decided to have a schizophrenic moment and Garrus tries to talk my Shepard down.  Actually, for my Kaidan-faithul playthrough I decided to roleplay a bit and had my ME1 paragon Shepard turn renegade in ME2 in response to dying and the entire resurrection trauma...it'd be awesome if Kaidan commented on this shift, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

#2681
GreatPhail

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Excuse me, Garrusmancers, but calibrations may have you beat.


B)

Modifié par GreatPhail, 09 octobre 2011 - 08:20 .


#2682
BubbleSauce

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Collider wrote...

If he's willing to have "cross-species-intercourse," what's to say he's against same-sex intercourse?

That's not remotely comparable.
The romanceable alien species in the game so far has shown to adhere to the same sexual dimorphism as humans.


That doesn't female turians are, they could be like brood mothers for all you know! :P

#2683
Chewin

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Quething wrote...
On the other hand, it would be a really nice bit of character growth if he got to finally reciprocate in ME3. Like if you're strongly paragon, and convinced Garrus to spare Saleon and Sidonis, and you're about to do something totally renegade, I would love to see Garrus get, basically, a "paragon interrupt" of his own, where he grabs Shep's gun and says "this isn't you, don't do this."


I approve of this. Garrus isn't any more the protégé and Shepard his mentor, Garrus is Shepard's equal now, and possibly even surpasses Shepard in a few areas of expertiece.

GreatPhail wrote...

Excuse me, Garrusmancers, but calibrations may have you beat.


[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]


Nah, this is what real calibrations means. *points at sig*

#2684
Collider

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It's alright if Garrus questions, but they would need to be careful not to subvert or trivialize player choices. It's Shepard's story, not Garrus', after all.

#2685
Nilfalasiel

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Collider wrote...

It's alright if Garrus questions, but they would need to be careful not to subvert or trivialize player choices. It's Shepard's story, not Garrus', after all.


There's also the fact that, in order to see that happen, Shepard would have to do something that's inconsistent with her/his previous behaviour. Unless they're actually scripting that rather than making it a player choice (which is a little tricky), Garrus wouldn't have a reason to challenge a Shepard who stays constant in his/her decisions.

#2686
BasementCat00

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 I wonder whether the characters will challenge Shepard, wasn't it mentioned that at ME3, your squadmates are already loyal to you? There's no such things as loyalty mission anymore is there? Not sure whether they will challenge Shepard besides giving their own two cents, although i would very much like to see it happen :P.

Then there's that thing about all squadmates getting their story and closure in ME3. and the possiblity about indoctrination affecting squadmates as well *shudders*. Indoctrination might play a role in this challenging Shepard business. Going nuts due to too much self speculation here @_@  

That aside, found this adorable comic by Calamari-San :D

Posted Image

#2687
outmane

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I like your idea Cheez but I also understand why some people would think something like

Collider wrote...

It's alright if Garrus questions, but they would need to be careful not to subvert or trivialize player choices. It's Shepard's story, not Garrus', after all.



Maybe the altercation with Garrus could happen with a diffrent issue, one that would be centered around the player. Like how much Shepard wishes to put the well being of humanity in front of any other species.

#2688
Obsydian

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JeffZero wrote...

It's an interesting ship. They have a lot to learn from one-another. Ash's xenophobia would gradually evaporate while Garrus would be with someone who was committed to sticking with what often feels like a dead-end career because she's fighting for what's right against unfair family-related odds.


firstly before I comment on anything relevant.... JEFF!!! I haven't seen you in here in a million billion years!  *pounce* 

ok. onto relevant issues.   Bubble and Olivia... Everything that you said about bi-Garrus is truth. I believe fully and completely in this. yes.    and thats all i'm gonna say on the subject passed what I've already said. 

I agree that I would LOVE to see Garrus challenge Shep. If anyone has the quads to do so, it would be him...  I think he's also the one who is best suited to do so....   

#2689
Lady Olivia

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Collider wrote...

If he's willing to have "cross-species-intercourse," what's to say he's against same-sex intercourse?

That's not remotely comparable.
The romanceable alien species in the game so far has shown to adhere to the same sexual dimorphism as humans.

All except asari, you mean?

And why do you think it's not comparable? He's ready to sleep with an alien he's not particularly attracted to because the said alien is his only friend and he respects them for their personality. The way I see it, gender doesn't even enter the equation.

Modifié par Lady Olivia, 09 octobre 2011 - 05:01 .


#2690
BubbleSauce

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Lady Olivia wrote...

Collider wrote...

If he's willing to have "cross-species-intercourse," what's to say he's against same-sex intercourse?

That's not remotely comparable.
The romanceable alien species in the game so far has shown to adhere to the same sexual dimorphism as humans.

All except asari, you mean?

And why do you think it's not comparable? He's ready to sleep with an alien he's not particularly attracted to because the said alien is his only friend and he respects them for their personality. The way I see it, gender doesn't even enter the equation.


That is entirely true, it's perfectly reasonable to say that garrus is pansexual, considering he did admit that he didn't find shepard all that attractive.

#2691
Obsydian

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Pansexual! thats the word i was trying to remember forever.... yes. yes i can see most turians being that way.

#2692
BubbleSauce

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Hey, sorry to break current conversation but I just thought I'd post this, a friend of mine offered to make me a skin in minecraft based on my avatar, and seeing as my avatar on both steam and deviant art is now a picture of lorik qui'in, he decied to give it a crack, he has limited knowledge of mass effect and I told him it'd be difficult, but he went ahead and tried to do it anyway. I think he made a really good effort, what do you guys think?

Posted Image


Posted Image

#2693
JeffZero

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Man, so I re-did Garrus' loyalty mission earlier and discovered something I wasn't aware of until now. Ancient news to the rest of you, I'm sure, but if you convince Garrus not to kill Sidonis and check out Citadel News Net a few times later there's a report on how Sidonis turned himself in on Omega, confessing to the crime of murdering ten people.

Geez.

#2694
AdmiralCheez

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@JeffZero: And that's why paragoning is worth it <3

#2695
JeffZero

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

@JeffZero: And that's why paragoning is worth it <3


Heh, hell yeah. :happy:

#2696
BubbleSauce

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JeffZero wrote...

Man, so I re-did Garrus' loyalty mission earlier and discovered something I wasn't aware of until now. Ancient news to the rest of you, I'm sure, but if you convince Garrus not to kill Sidonis and check out Citadel News Net a few times later there's a report on how Sidonis turned himself in on Omega, confessing to the crime of murdering ten people.

Geez.


No, he didn't turn himself in on omega (I don't even think there is a police service on omega, correct me if I'm wrong) I believe he turned himself into c-sec but it wasn't certain whether or not he would be convicted of anything because it occured outside the area of coucil jurisdiction.

#2697
JeffZero

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BubbleSauce wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Man, so I re-did Garrus' loyalty mission earlier and discovered something I wasn't aware of until now. Ancient news to the rest of you, I'm sure, but if you convince Garrus not to kill Sidonis and check out Citadel News Net a few times later there's a report on how Sidonis turned himself in on Omega, confessing to the crime of murdering ten people.

Geez.


No, he didn't turn himself in on omega (I don't even think there is a police service on omega, correct me if I'm wrong) I believe he turned himself into c-sec but it wasn't certain whether or not he would be convicted of anything because it occured outside the area of coucil jurisdiction.


You're quite right, there's no police station or anything. And he turned himself on the Citadel. Makes a lot more sense.That's why I was kinda brain-scratching while posting that, admittedly. It's been a busy month.

#2698
Lady Olivia

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@JeffZero
Spirits, I love your avatar. Makes me go hum that impossible title tune from Farscape every single time. Gotta watch again. Gah! So many cool things and so little time.

Sorry for off topic, had to get that out of my system. :)

#2699
UrsulaCousland

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

@JeffZero: And that's why paragoning is worth it <3


I'll admit it, on my first PT, I  didn't get in the way and let Garrus gun Sidonis down.

That felt very flat to me - just show up, gun the guy down, and go. So, I reloaded, and totally paragon'd the encounter.

Wow. So much more rewarding IMO. I may let Garrus take the shot in a future PT, but not on the canon one, (or likely most of the rest) for certain.

#2700
Demonique

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BubbleSauce wrote...

That is entirely true, it's perfectly reasonable to say that garrus is pansexual, considering he did admit that he didn't find shepard all that attractive.


Would being pansexual make him Captain Garrus Harkness?