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No Shepard Without Vakarian: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#326
Surmansuuhun

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Lady Olivia wrote...

Gotta admit, of all things in ME scientific lore, the levo-dextro issues are among the most annoying (for me). Sure, a levo-based organism couldn't get nutrition from dextro-food, but the allergies, especially in terms of, um, cross-species intercourse, are just ridiculous. If there are any biologists here, I'd like to hear from someone qualified if there's really a basis for the "possible anaphylactic shock so don't ingest" thing.

I especially hate what this notion has done in the realm of fanfiction.


The way I took Mordin's advice was that he was telling Shepard not to swallow which would just rule out some sexual activities, not all of them. Ingest to me means taking in food. But, in cases of food allergies, is it possible to be just allergic to eating the food and not touching it? I'm not sure about that since I don't actually have any food allergies. But yeah, in my mind, Mordin was just telling her not to go down on a Turian. I could be wrong.

Edit: TOTP, sorry, most of my Garrus screenshots have my Shepard in them.
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Modifié par Surmansuuhun, 19 juin 2011 - 03:31 .


#327
Phaedon

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Dark Horse is getting better and better. I didn't really have any problems with the final Evolution issues, other than perhaps how they presented Eva Core.

But hey, this is a comic we are talking about.

--
After all, the only problem with making Garrus act like Max Payne is that Max has a lot more to do to be as badass as Garrus.

#328
GarrusV4karian

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WOHO, Garrus thread. Don't mind if I'm gonna feel myself at home

Modifié par GarrusV4karian, 19 juin 2011 - 04:33 .


#329
outmane

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Were a very homey tread youll see. Specially since we had our Garrus in the E3 presentation and we know hes a perma sqaddie... you wont see to much worries on this tread. Lots of cool discussion about Garrus family, his romance arc and every possible speculations. If you want a no spoiler version tho theres one in the ME2 section.

#330
Lady Catastrophe

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makalathbonagin wrote...
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Human-ised Garrus?

...I'll be in my bunk. :wub:

#331
Lady Olivia

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Surmansuuhun wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

Gotta admit, of all things in ME scientific lore, the levo-dextro issues are among the most annoying (for me). Sure, a levo-based organism couldn't get nutrition from dextro-food, but the allergies, especially in terms of, um, cross-species intercourse, are just ridiculous. If there are any biologists here, I'd like to hear from someone qualified if there's really a basis for the "possible anaphylactic shock so don't ingest" thing.

I especially hate what this notion has done in the realm of fanfiction.


The way I took Mordin's advice was that he was telling Shepard not to swallow which would just rule out some sexual activities, not all of them. Ingest to me means taking in food. But, in cases of food allergies, is it possible to be just allergic to eating the food and not touching it? I'm not sure about that since I don't actually have any food allergies. But yeah, in my mind, Mordin was just telling her not to go down on a Turian. I could be wrong.


I know, I read it the same way, and that's why I'm complaining. Dextro "tissue" shouldn't cause allergies in levo people, and neither should dextro food - it just couldn't be utilized like levo food. At least that's what I think (if I was sure, I wouldn't be asking for a professional opinion, heh). I'm a bit angry at that bit of Mordin's dialog because it's... teenagerish, and it introduced a trend in fanfiction that I find distasteful.

In fact, I'm inclined to believe he was joking.

Modifié par Lady Olivia, 19 juin 2011 - 07:30 .


#332
Srast

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Lady Olivia wrote...

Surmansuuhun wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

Gotta admit, of all things in ME scientific lore, the levo-dextro issues are among the most annoying (for me). Sure, a levo-based organism couldn't get nutrition from dextro-food, but the allergies, especially in terms of, um, cross-species intercourse, are just ridiculous. If there are any biologists here, I'd like to hear from someone qualified if there's really a basis for the "possible anaphylactic shock so don't ingest" thing.

I especially hate what this notion has done in the realm of fanfiction.


The way I took Mordin's advice was that he was telling Shepard not to swallow which would just rule out some sexual activities, not all of them. Ingest to me means taking in food. But, in cases of food allergies, is it possible to be just allergic to eating the food and not touching it? I'm not sure about that since I don't actually have any food allergies. But yeah, in my mind, Mordin was just telling her not to go down on a Turian. I could be wrong.


I know, I read it the same way, and that's why I'm complaining. Dextro "tissue" shouldn't cause allergies in levo people, and neither should dextro food - it just couldn't be utilized like levo food. At least that's what I think (if I was sure, I wouldn't be asking for a professional opinion, heh). I'm a bit angry at that bit of Mordin's dialog because it's... teenagerish, and it introduced a trend in fanfiction that I find distasteful.

In fact, I'm inclined to believe he was joking.


Penuts don't cause allergic reactions in most people, but to others such an allergy can be so bad as to be deadly. I don't think all levo species are allergic to dextro, but some have allergic reactions that can be deadly and you don't want to go testing to see if you're allergic by jumping right in.

#333
Lady Olivia

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Srast wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

Surmansuuhun wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

Gotta admit, of all things in ME scientific lore, the levo-dextro issues are among the most annoying (for me). Sure, a levo-based organism couldn't get nutrition from dextro-food, but the allergies, especially in terms of, um, cross-species intercourse, are just ridiculous. If there are any biologists here, I'd like to hear from someone qualified if there's really a basis for the "possible anaphylactic shock so don't ingest" thing.

I especially hate what this notion has done in the realm of fanfiction.


The way I took Mordin's advice was that he was telling Shepard not to swallow which would just rule out some sexual activities, not all of them. Ingest to me means taking in food. But, in cases of food allergies, is it possible to be just allergic to eating the food and not touching it? I'm not sure about that since I don't actually have any food allergies. But yeah, in my mind, Mordin was just telling her not to go down on a Turian. I could be wrong.


I know, I read it the same way, and that's why I'm complaining. Dextro "tissue" shouldn't cause allergies in levo people, and neither should dextro food - it just couldn't be utilized like levo food. At least that's what I think (if I was sure, I wouldn't be asking for a professional opinion, heh). I'm a bit angry at that bit of Mordin's dialog because it's... teenagerish, and it introduced a trend in fanfiction that I find distasteful.

In fact, I'm inclined to believe he was joking.


Penuts don't cause allergic reactions in most people, but to others such an allergy can be so bad as to be deadly. I don't think all levo species are allergic to dextro, but some have allergic reactions that can be deadly and you don't want to go testing to see if you're allergic by jumping right in.

That's how allergies work, yes. But if you read the wiki article about chirality, you'll see there's no mention of people here on Earth, who are levo-based, being allergic to dextro-stuff. It can taste weird, but that's about all there's to it.

EDIT: Here's another article about this. Note the last paragraph: "This allergic reaction info is slightly overboard in the Mass Effect universe. Unless the pH balance is hazardous, there shouldn't be any serious problems."

It's more or less the way I thought. Still would like to talk to a biologist about it.

Modifié par Lady Olivia, 19 juin 2011 - 07:52 .


#334
Leonia

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Y'know.. I'm inclined to think Mordin was joking, he does that from time to time. As for how it affects fanfiction.. come on, I'm sure the people who really care about that sort of stuff in their fanfics would have invented the concept on their own. It is teenager-ish. Mordin was simply giving Shepard a hard time, as he is known to do. There could be all sorts of other problems/issues with, uh, engaging in such relations with a turian. Maybe they just don't like it, seeing as female turians wouldn't be able to..do that, given the teeth and.. yeah. But that's not really a topic I want to go too far into here..

Anyway, we see a few other comments here or there on the levo-dextro thing but I think in general it's not as big of an issue as some people would like it to be. For example, I'm sure that relationships between asari and turians have been common long before humanity showed up on the citadel and they would have established some sort of "guidelines" on what is safe and what isn't long ago. I think it's only an issue when it comes to food and even then, it's mostly a non-issue unless there are all sorts of weird additives involved.

I doubt it's the chirality issue alone that makes things poisonous, there could be all sorts of other compounds that just aren't explained in the lore because that would be super in-depth information. When we don't even know everything there is to know about alien anatomy (well, at least for the turians), how can we expect the writers/designers to develop their entire genome and map out every protein and how it must react with everything else in the ME 'verse?

The biologist in me (and yes I am one) reckons that the chirality issue is just about incompatibility (especially with digestion) more than it is about "this will kill you!". We eat things all the time that our bodies aren't designed to digest properly (as I am sure some of the aliens in ME 'verse do as well, given that turians must be carnivores do you think they can avoid the mostly omnivore diets that everyone else eats? And that's not even taking into account levo-dextro differences).

It might just be a case of fans over-thinking the established lore.

Modifié par leonia42, 19 juin 2011 - 09:53 .


#335
Jackalope

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Lady Olivia wrote...
It's more or less the way I thought. Still would like to talk to a biologist about it.


Having only taken one Biochemistry class (way before Mass Effect came out) and having NOT gone to medical school...

http://en.wikipedia....nantiopure_drug

This wiki on chiral drugs talks about different interactions.

I tend to chill out and suspend disbelief on science in movies (unless it's DNA-related, because that's my job we're talking about).  Take the lysine thing in Jurassic Park.  The book proposes that the dinosaurs were modified so that they cannot make lysine on their own.  They must get lysine from the scientists or die (Samual L. Jackson explained this in the movie).  The twist is...no animals produce lysine.  We ALL need to get it from our diet.

(My professor ****ed about Micheal Criton constantly over this little thing.  Frankly, Criton had best-seller after best-seller while Dr. Alison was stuck teaching pre-med students.)

For Mass Effect, I see it like this: I'm sure turians can eat 98% of our food.  BUT maybe a small precentage kills you.  And the only way to find out is to sample the food.  Furthermore, there's a good chance that since your receptors are different, it wouldn't even taste the same.  Or you're stuck in the bathroom with the runs.  Would you eat the alien food?  Or stick to your mama's home cooking?

#336
Good Chaos7

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Jackalope wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...
It's more or less the way I thought. Still would like to talk to a biologist about it.


Having only taken one Biochemistry class (way before Mass Effect came out) and having NOT gone to medical school...

http://en.wikipedia....nantiopure_drug

This wiki on chiral drugs talks about different interactions.

I tend to chill out and suspend disbelief on science in movies (unless it's DNA-related, because that's my job we're talking about).  Take the lysine thing in Jurassic Park.  The book proposes that the dinosaurs were modified so that they cannot make lysine on their own.  They must get lysine from the scientists or die (Samual L. Jackson explained this in the movie).  The twist is...no animals produce lysine.  We ALL need to get it from our diet.

(My professor ****ed about Micheal Criton constantly over this little thing.  Frankly, Criton had best-seller after best-seller while Dr. Alison was stuck teaching pre-med students.)

For Mass Effect, I see it like this: I'm sure turians can eat 98% of our food.  BUT maybe a small precentage kills you.  And the only way to find out is to sample the food.  Furthermore, there's a good chance that since your receptors are different, it wouldn't even taste the same.  Or you're stuck in the bathroom with the runs.  Would you eat the alien food?  Or stick to your mama's home cooking?

Awesome explanation!  & it's kinda what I though.. I mean there was that one Turian on Noveria who could really go for a Donut! :P      :pinched:Great!  Now I really want a donut!

#337
Eradyn

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BW did a great disservice to their fans and the Mass Effect universe with their emphasis on the manufactured dextro-levo incompatibility issue. I see this misunderstanding all over fanfiction (to often irritating and story-ruining results) and on various forums and boards. And it keeps getting recirculated. It's really difficult to stem the tide of misinformation when BW itself is eager to spread it. =/ I really hope this is rectified in ME3.

#338
Alanosborn1991

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Make it happen Bioware!
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#339
Exolyps

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Eradyn wrote...

BW did a great disservice to their fans and the Mass Effect universe with their emphasis on the manufactured dextro-levo incompatibility issue. I see this misunderstanding all over fanfiction (to often irritating and story-ruining results) and on various forums and boards. And it keeps getting recirculated. It's really difficult to stem the tide of misinformation when BW itself is eager to spread it. =/ I really hope this is rectified in ME3.


Could you go go into a bit more details? As by reading your post I get the impression that you mean I could have missundertsood the dextro-levo issue. (Which I hope I have). But if I have, what is the correct information regarding it?

I'd love to hear.

#340
luciusleathordt

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Hullo, thread!

What do you guys think about the proximity mine skill Garrus apparently has in ME3?

I'm not too fond of using traps in RPGs, myself, even though I favor rogue/thief type characters. I think Baldur's Gate 2 and it's expansion were about the only games I needed to find & consult my inner trapmaster, and that's because some of the boss fights were so damn hard without 5+ strategically placed traps. Felt like cheating afterwards. Yeah, I know, it's ridiculous. The traps/mines are in the game to be taken advantage of, just like any other skill.

So when I learned that Garrus now has proximity mines my first reaction was "Nooo! Whyyy? Of all the cool skills they could've given him, they went and picked TRAPS?!" Then I mentally slapped myself and started thinking. Proximity mines, when placed right (bottleneck + ambush anyone?) add a whole new level of tactical play. Being the tactical genius he is, it makes perfect sense for Garrus to use such skill. Gameplay wise, it often requires a second playthrough (knowing enemy numbers, the paths they use and the map layout helps immensely when deciding where to plant those mines) before you can achieve the maximum havoc using traps, but still.

I'm guessing that in ME3 you can only have one mine active at any time, because otherwise the skill would be quite overpowered. (Imagine entire minefields, which would take out hordes of enemies in a spectacular series of explosions. Come to think of it... DO WANT! :o ).

TL;DR : Not a fan of mines, but they probably prove out to be very useful.

#341
Platform_Error

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My only concern with the mines is Garrus' tendency to disregard my Shepard's 'take cover' orders. I can just picture him running into his own traps and getting knocked out :lol:

#342
LuskeRikke

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Platform_Error wrote...

My only concern with the mines is Garrus' tendency to disregard my Shepard's 'take cover' orders. I can just picture him running into his own traps and getting knocked out :lol:



You just gave me a wicked idea B)
I'll return in a few hours! (No promises though)

#343
Lady Olivia

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Jackalope wrote...

I tend to chill out and suspend disbelief on science in movies (unless it's DNA-related, because that's my job we're talking about)...

For Mass Effect, I see it like this: I'm sure turians can eat 98% of our food.  BUT maybe a small precentage kills you.  And the only way to find out is to sample the food.  Furthermore, there's a good chance that since your receptors are different, it wouldn't even taste the same.  Or you're stuck in the bathroom with the runs.  Would you eat the alien food?  Or stick to your mama's home cooking?

Hehe, I so know what you mean by "chill out and suspend disbelief." I'm an astronomer. I really have to work at it with most sci-fi. :)

On topic of chirality and allergies, I'm still not quite satisfied. I'll try to make a clear case:

What you said is pretty much common sense. You don't go into the woods, pick strange mushrooms and eat them. A poisonous mushroom, like a drug with the wrong chirality, will affect everybody the same way.

That's not what allergy is, right? When tasting a strange mushroom, or alien food, or, um, alien bodily fluids, you shouldn't be concerned if you'll be allergic - you should be concerned if you'll be poisoned. There's a difference between an allergic reaction and a toxic reaction.

I find if very unlikely that some aliens could have excretions that are toxic to humans, and that this wouldn't be widely known. Think of Thane. Drell are not at all as common in Citadel space as are turians, and still the effects of their... excretions... are very well known. Garrus and Shepard can't be the first mixed couple ever; if there were issues of toxicity, it would be public knowledge.

How likely is it that some alien excretion could cause an allergic reaction, especially as severe as anaphylactic shock (!) and that it's not a widely known danger? Well, we can only guess. My guess is, it's so unlikely that Mordin must have been joking about it.

Eradyn wrote...

BW did a great disservice to their fans and the Mass Effect universe with their emphasis on the manufactured dextro-levo incompatibility issue. I see this misunderstanding all over fanfiction (to often irritating and story-ruining results) and on various forums and boards. And it keeps getting recirculated. It's really difficult to stem the tide of misinformation when BW itself is eager to spread it. =/ I really hope this is rectified in ME3.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it.


Exolyps wrote...

Could you go go into a bit more details? As by reading your post I get the impression that you mean I could have missundertsood the dextro-levo issue. (Which I hope I have). But if I have, what is the correct information regarding it?

I'd love to hear.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but there are links in Jackalope's post and in mine a bit back, explaining "real world" chirality issues, if you can call them that. I think we're in general agreement here that these issues are depicted as overly dramatic and unrealistic, in ME universe. And then fanfiction took them to a whole new level of disturbing.

What is your understanding of the issue?

#344
luciusleathordt

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Platform_Error wrote...

My only concern with the mines is Garrus' tendency to disregard my Shepard's 'take cover' orders. I can just picture him running into his own traps and getting knocked out :lol:



Damn you, artificial idiocy! Yeah, that could be a real problem, unless only enemies will trigger mines. I would prefer that.

#345
Sister Helen

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1) Don't eat the nuts in the red bowls in that bar in Ilium. They're for the quarians and Turkana and will give you cramps.
2) A krogan drank a liquified turian once. No one came out of that looking good.

Mordinn advised sedatives and restraints with respect to seducing Jack. If you think he was joking about that scenario, then it follows he was joking about the others.

(I personally thought he was joking about Thane - sort of a take on that old chestnut about licking a certain species of frog to get high that was going around the popular meme in the 1970s.)

#346
Alanosborn1991

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www.youtube.com/watch

Guys I just found one of the best Garrus Vakarian cosplays EVER!

#347
GarrusV4karian

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^*insert 'shut up and take my money' pic here*

#348
outmane

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Lady Olivia wrote...

Exolyps wrote...

Could you go go into a bit more details? As by reading your post I get the impression that you mean I could have missundertsood the dextro-levo issue. (Which I hope I have). But if I have, what is the correct information regarding it?

I'd love to hear.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but there are links in Jackalope's post and in mine a bit back, explaining "real world" chirality issues, if you can call them that. I think we're in general agreement here that these issues are depicted as overly dramatic and unrealistic, in ME universe. And then fanfiction took them to a whole new level of disturbing.

What is your understanding of the issue?


I can really understand how annoying those differences can be between a MEverse and real life to a scientist. Its like when a game treats history baddly for me (im a history/litterature teacher). All the nonsense about ****s and russians kinda pileup <_<

But i do appreciate the memes. What i mean is i dont believe they are made to disrespect. Those who go with 'instadeath' for Shepard might be over the top but the one that was posted is just funny. Might be worth reading the autor's intention. But yeah, funny memes are funny when they dont claim to be canon.

On the subject of Mordins advices, he does comment that not being interested in romances is simpler 'because it takes less alchool and mood music'. You guys think he has something to do with the way Garrus acts in the romance cutscene? Since you learn that Garrus didnt watch vids if you dont take the Paragon interrupt in that scene, maybe he prefered asking Mordin. With how over the top his advices can be, i can see why Garrus is nervous ^_^.

#349
Lady Olivia

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D'awwww.

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#350
LisuPL

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Lady Olivia wrote...

D'awwww.

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Don't worry Garrus - best berries grow in the shadow : P - be patient: )