19887 réponses à ce sujet

[BubbleSauce]

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

This has been covered b4 but who the new ppl that werent around b4 -
Would you shoot down an indoctrinated Garrus trying to kill you?
 I sure as hell wouldnt. Or least not want too. Id capture him and confine him somewhere safe til i figured out how to save his mind or at least til i defeated the reapers. But look what happened with Benezia. Anyone indoctrinated would never be the same. My only theory to break the "spell" is to destroy the root of the control. Hence again - til i defeated the reapers.

Even if you did do that, as the wiki states: The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders.

And yes, I'd kill him, I'd be sad about it, I feel slightly detatched from the situation now because we're only discussing it, but if it did come to that then of course I'd kill him. He's lost by that point, it'd be more painful for me to see someone I was close to have to continue to exist in that state, than have to see them killed. There are fates worse than death, why do you think Saren put a bullet in his head?

Plus, he's dangerous in that condition, what other choice is there? And do really think shepard will be able to contain and capture garrus if he went feral? Turians are tall and bulky and strong, and the reapers are in control of him by that stage...

[outmane]

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

Arcane you got me thinking there...


How will ME3 affect the support Garrus gets as LI ?


Ill start by keeping in mind that the leaks seem to show that hes gonna be unavailible if you hadnt romanced him in ME2 so that means hell only be availible to Femshep (of course that could still change).

Im not sure there will be much going back to Kaidan for those who chose Garrus as LI. Thats mainly because many Kaidanites made their canon Shep stay faithful (I know I did a faithful run with one of my Sheps to see how it goes). On the other hand theres Mr. Vega who is new to the picture. So far he seems like a man with some attitude and who isnt afraid to flirt (I havent read the leacks so thats jsut from reading his support thread). Since Garrus romance looks like its going to end up in some 'serious' territory (more then just blowing off steam) maybe some Shep who just want to have a good times will choose to have a taste of Vega. Iguess also if Vega gets to be s/s then some Sheploo will choose him to try and forget Garrus.

So those are my predictions so far... what you guys think? 

[ArcanaLegacy]

BubbleSauce wrote...

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

This has been covered b4 but who the new ppl that werent around b4 -
Would you shoot down an indoctrinated Garrus trying to kill you?
 I sure as hell wouldnt. Or least not want too. Id capture him and confine him somewhere safe til i figured out how to save his mind or at least til i defeated the reapers. But look what happened with Benezia. Anyone indoctrinated would never be the same. My only theory to break the "spell" is to destroy the root of the control. Hence again - til i defeated the reapers.

Even if you did do that, as the wiki states: The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders.

And yes, I'd kill him, I'd be sad about it, I feel slightly detatched from the situation now because we're only discussing it, but if it did come to that then of course I'd kill him. He's lost by that point, it'd be more painful for me to see someone I was close to have to continue to exist in that state, than have to see them killed. There are fates worse than death, why do you think Saren put a bullet in his head?

Plus, he's dangerous in that condition, what other choice is there? And do really think shepard will be able to contain and capture garrus if he went feral? Turians are tall and bulky and strong, and the reapers are in control of him by that stage...

If it reaches that point of him having no hope than yes, id shoot too. Going to what i underlined- Thats my ONLY reasoning if i were to shoot. Garrus has suffered enough in life. Why have him suffer more? [IF there was no hope left]. Id prefer kinda a similar situation to Benezia's state where she came back to her regular self back in me1. Id prefer for Garrus to have a moment where he comes back, even if its just for a moment. 
Going back to that fanfiction of Shep indoctrinated and Garrus having to shoot her. But switch the roles. Something like that.

And theres no way it can be PERMANENT. Severe yes. But no one knows for sure. Reapers have always existed. Whos to say that the indoctrination cant be broken/severed once theyre gone? Its an interesting theory that I hope gets answered in ME3. Does indoctrination continue to influence those affected even when the reapers are gone? Thats one mystery I want answers for.

The whole "unavoidable character deaths" that BW hinted at is crazy.
Thought of something the other day - MIGHT be a spoiler The other day i thought of quite the revelation. It was said that at the end Garrus and Shep are on the citadel apparently, confessing love and such. So......that means there IS a way to keep Garrus alive throughout ME3! Now.....at what price is the question?? Or was he never up for a "climatic death" in the first place. Probably gonna be like ME2 SM, pick the wrong person for a role or something and that person is doomed. Unless we see another Virmire incident and Garrus was an a receiving end - whereas Shep saved him instead of the other. Oh well, point is - that just confirmed Garrus can survive it all. So consider me one EXTREMELY happy fangirl.
end.

[ArcanaLegacy]

blah
sry for 2x post: just saw outmane post and well - i commenting on it

outmane wrote...
How will ME3 affect the support Garrus gets as LI ?


Ill start by keeping in mind that the leaks seem to show that hes gonna be unavailible if you hadnt romanced him in ME2 so that means hell only be availible to Femshep (of course that could still change).

Im not sure there will be much going back to Kaidan for those who chose Garrus as LI. Thats mainly because many Kaidanites made their canon Shep stay faithful (I know I did a faithful run with one of my Sheps to see how it goes). On the other hand theres Mr. Vega who is new to the picture. So far he seems like a man with some attitude and who isnt afraid to flirt (I havent read the leacks so thats jsut from reading his support thread). Since Garrus romance looks like its going to end up in some 'serious' territory (more then just blowing off steam) maybe some Shep who just want to have a good times will choose to have a taste of Vega. Iguess also if Vega gets to be s/s then some Sheploo will choose him to try and forget Garrus.

So those are my predictions so far... what you guys think? 

I get the high feeling he IS romancable. Heck, i bet all of them are to an extent. But hey, dont forget that BW is doing some other interactive comic for those who are completely new to the series. They mentioned they were doing something quite similar to what they did for ME2. I bet its possible to choose Garrus as an option in the comic so in ME3, theyre considered together already. Lame excuse to see the relationships thru a comic, but if that the only way to get them for some ppl - i guess its better than nothing.
As for leaving Garrus for Vega? Can you imagine being in a love triangle with Garrus and Kaiden.....then try to move onto James?.......wow. That shepard must be horny as heck.

Honestly though - i am curious to see how far the Garrus romance gets. Remember BW never intended on making him romancable in the first place. Its just because of our constant demanding as fans that they decide to do it. They were beyond surprised by far popular he was [via game informer interview, heh.] The whole "blowing off steam" aspect seemed like a joke and fanservice, but at the same time - kinda played right into the whole "friends to lovers" transition. Something that SEEMED like playful banter and trust turning into something more. Seeing as it is going into "serious territory" as you said, id glad that BW is further supporting that romance into something actually meaningful. Something we garrus fans have been wanting since that teasing headbump.

Modifié par ArcanaLegacy, 23 novembre 2011 - 10:11 .

[BubbleSauce]

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

This has been covered b4 but who the new ppl that werent around b4 -
Would you shoot down an indoctrinated Garrus trying to kill you?
 I sure as hell wouldnt. Or least not want too. Id capture him and confine him somewhere safe til i figured out how to save his mind or at least til i defeated the reapers. But look what happened with Benezia. Anyone indoctrinated would never be the same. My only theory to break the "spell" is to destroy the root of the control. Hence again - til i defeated the reapers.

Even if you did do that, as the wiki states: The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders.

And yes, I'd kill him, I'd be sad about it, I feel slightly detatched from the situation now because we're only discussing it, but if it did come to that then of course I'd kill him. He's lost by that point, it'd be more painful for me to see someone I was close to have to continue to exist in that state, than have to see them killed. There are fates worse than death, why do you think Saren put a bullet in his head?

Plus, he's dangerous in that condition, what other choice is there? And do really think shepard will be able to contain and capture garrus if he went feral? Turians are tall and bulky and strong, and the reapers are in control of him by that stage...

And theres no way it can be PERMANENT. Severe yes. But no one knows for sure. Reapers have always existed. Whos to say that the indoctrination cant be broken/severed once theyre gone? Its an interesting theory that I hope gets answered in ME3. Does indoctrination continue to influence those affected even when the reapers are gone? Thats one mystery I want answers for.

Sorry, if that last bit was intergral to your arguement, but I can't read it, spoilers and all...

Why exactly is there no way it can be permanent? Indoctrination is a technology, it isn't magic, (well I don't exactly know that, but I think we can all agree that it'd be pretty f*cking stupid if it did turn out to be magic) it's much more likely that it actually changes the way the brain functions rather than simply taking control for a little while, and even if it wasn't, like I said, the effects are severe, you saw what happened to the salarians on virmire. It doesn't matter if it still works after the reapers are gone if it causes permanent brain damage, and turns them feral...

Maybe in the early stages it can reversed, as it's stated in the lore, indoctrination is a gradual thing, it doesn't happen immediately, and it is stated in the wiki that the more control over a person a reaper has the less fuctional they become, so I suppose maybe if garrus was indoctrinated it'll lead to the same thing as Saren's indoctrination in which saren made him self so valuable to the reapers that he knew they would never let him get that far. (Hence why he was able to be convinced otherwise at the end of ME1)

Even at that it depends on several differant variables, as in how far into the indoctrination he is, whether or not it can be reversed etc. It's impossible to say whether or not I'd shoot him because I don't know the circumstances. In your post you said that he'd be trying to kill you. I interpretted that as him being pretty far into the ordeal, shepard means a lot to Garrus, and I should think it'd take a lot of work for the reapers to convince garrus to kill her. Maybe I interpreted in wrongly, whatever. It's impossible to say if you don't specify, but I'll put it plainly.

If he could be reverted back to old garrus then of course I wouldn't, why would I, it makes no sense and I should scarcely think any right minded person would indeed kill him if they knew the situation could be rectified.

If it was irreversable or if he was left in a state afterwards in which he simply wasn't himself, then yes, I'd kill him, because I don't want to see garrus in a cell, jumping around like a confused ape, knowing that there's nothing that can be done about it, especially if he becomes a danger to others... 

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 23 novembre 2011 - 10:44 .

[ArcanaLegacy]

It is actually hard to put into words. I dont want to say "magic",.....just some kind of mind controlling influence. Gah i hope its not magic. And didnt those salarians go thru experiments also? Thats what the other still sane salarian said in the cell next to them. So indoctrination under severe conditions would DEFINITELY brake just about anyone.

Early stages, yes. Ive read it could be reversable. Any any "disease", it can be stopped or cured once its caught early on. But only then. If Garrus did go too far where its no longer reversable, then sadly - yea - set him "free" the only way possible.

BubbleSauce wrote...
Even at that it depends on several differant variables, as in how far into the indoctrination he is, whether or not it can be reversed etc. It's impossible to say whether or not I'd shoot him because I don't know the circumstances. In your post you said that he'd be trying to kill you. I interpretted that as him being pretty far into the ordeal, shepard means a lot to Garrus, and I should think it'd take a lot of work for the reapers to convince garrus to kill her. Maybe I interpreted in wrongly, whatever. It's impossible to say if you don't specify, but I'll put it plainly.

True i didnt specify. Maybe it was a rhetorical question. Too many different answers, too many variables needed. Kinda left that time we discussed whether or not we'd save Garrus over a planet/group of people back in the classic thread.
Anyone indoctrinated is going to want to stop Shepard. In my opinion, Garrus is too strong willed for it to take such an extent as Saren, but its possible. Reapers feed on desires, in a sense, and twist them for their own bidding. Well, with those strong-willed individuals. Saren, Dr.Kenson, TIM? [if cerberus is indoctrinated or not]. Regular soldiers seem like childs play to the reapers, others may prove to be quite the challenge. Reapers want Shepard dead, or at least in their control- Garrus deeply cares for her. Itd be one hell of a fight in his mind to convert him to hurt her otherwise.

BubbleSauce wrote...
If he could be reverted back to old garrus then of course I wouldn't, why would I, it makes no sense and I should scarcely think any right minded person would indeed kill him if they knew the situation could be rectified.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it was irreversable or if he was left in a state afterwards in which he simply wasn't himself, then yes, I'd kill him, because I don't want to see garrus in a cell, jumping around like a confused ape, knowing that there's nothing that can be done about it, especially if he becomes a danger to others... 

The 1st part - thats quite the interpretation im going for. IF there was a chance, of course i'd take it. Indoctrination is a complex thing. No one truly understands it. Thats what leaves it such a complex situation. Hmmmm i feel like tweeting a simple question to BW about this.....
Anyways, as for the second part: Agreed. The whole thing. Garrus would turn into something he himself hates. Someone causing harm to others. "The strong still exploiting the weak.". Its not Garrus, and I'd hate to see him live a life as something he [and shepard] is against. Similar with Legions LM decision - You ask everyone about the whole dilemma, and they'll all say they rather die still being them, then walk around and live a life being something theyre not. And if garrus did somehow hurt shepard while indoctrinated, and he somehow snapped at out of it for a moment, I think he'll possibly commit suicide or something....
He tries so hard to get some kind of happiness in his life, and when he does, he's the one to put the one person in danger - im afarid he'd just.....give up. In a clear state where he's still himself for a few seconds - to end it HIS way than be a pawn to Reapers and be used to commit more injustice in the most horrid ways possible - destroying all known life in the galaxy. 

Garrus Vakarian wrote: "I've always hated injustice."

[outmane]

 @ Arcane

Im pretty confident we will have a decent continuation of the Garrus romance. I havent read the leaks but from what I heard Bioware isnt backtracking on making Garrus a LI.  Plus since Garrus will be a sqaddy we will get all the adorable 'at work' dialogue too. Those quips are part of why so many people fell for Garrus in the first place.
About the love triangles, im not sure how it would work in a decent storyline but so many players just want to try out the dialogues... I can see some of them going from Garrus to Vega cause hes the new badass guy. Not that Id do that. I already have an other Shep for that (hopefully Vega will be availible for s/s or that Shep will be pretty lonely in the end)

@ Bubble / Arcane

Did i miss something specific to indoctrination regarding Garrus (in the leaks maybe)? Is he more susceptible to indoctrination or is it something to do wih being Shep's LI? 

If not then im not too worried about him getting indoctrinated. If its a Virmire type event ill just bring someone else or choose garrus over the other squaddy (might be a bit of metagaming but since its my story to write I dont feel so bad)

Modifié par outmane, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:28 .

[Pyn]

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

Xannerz wrote...
I read a fic somewhere involving Garrus having to kill an indoctrinated Shepard. Very sad, very sad.

I know which one youre referring too. It was short, but .....*sniff*
 Someone hug me!

I think I'd like a link?

ArcanaLegacy wrote...
Indoctrination topic:
Interesting theory that shep COULD be rebuilt using reaper tech but highly unlikely. Plus if harbinger wanted to indoctrinate shep, he probably would have done it by now.
Though the whole thing with Arrival has me concerned. Shep was out for 2 days in the hands of indoctrinated scientists. Who knows what they did to her.
Also, hate to break it to you guys - but i read AGES ago on Casey's twitter that indoctrination plays a HUGE part in me3. It wont just effect enemies but........squadmates too.....*gulp*

This has been covered b4 but who the new ppl that werent around b4 -
Would you shoot down an indoctrinated Garrus trying to kill you?
 I sure as hell wouldnt. Or least not want too. Id capture him and confine him somewhere safe til i figured out how to save his mind or at least til i defeated the reapers. But look what happened with Benezia. Anyone indoctrinated would never be the same. My only theory to break the "spell" is to destroy the root of the control. Hence again - til i defeated the reapers.

Hmm... I find it a bit creepy at how correct Saren was in ME1...
Saren was "Rogue" working with Geth... Shep has Legion, a Geth, and considering his loyalty mission...
Vasir was working for The Shadow Broker. New broker...
Nevermind Shep 'working' with Cerberus...

...Can't really blame the Council for not being happy to see Shep...
Saren was first to have things go wrong, hmm... Seems Shep may be the second...

---------

made a 3rd "cover-page" for section 3 of my fanfic

[PauseforEffect]

Rannin wrote...

Visor Spec's
[i]-Monitors biofeedback on target within 10 meters to detect
heart-rate fluctuations or changes to breath pattern (standard council
races only)




I hope this helps

http://masseffect.wi...Garrus_Vakarian[b]  Here's my source

Thank you Rannin! Thank you Ariadnee!
I know, it's not hilarious, but it made sense to me. Garrus needed all the help he could find so......ok, now I'm too embarrassed to go further with the innuendo...

[SuiteAces]

outmane wrote...

If not then im not too worried about him getting indoctrinated. If its a Virmire type event ill just bring someone else or choose garrus over the other squaddy (might be a bit of metagaming but since its my story to write I dont feel so bad)

Lol, I think we all feel the same way.  I'll take Garrus over any squadmate at this point.


On a side note, I would have a hard time finishing the game if there was no way for Garrus and I to have a happy ending.  I think it would be a very hard thing for me.  I don't know if I could do it.

[Twilight_Princess]

PrimalEden wrote...

Rannin wrote...

Visor Spec's
[i]-Monitors biofeedback on target within 10 meters to detect
heart-rate fluctuations or changes to breath pattern (standard council
races only)




I hope this helps

http://masseffect.wi...Garrus_Vakarian[b]  Here's my source

Thank you Rannin! Thank you Ariadnee!
I know, it's not hilarious, but it made sense to me. Garrus needed all the help he could find so......ok, now I'm too embarrassed to go further with the innuendo...

 Do you think he also used his visor to google search tips on how to hit on human women during that scene? LOL.


Makes me think Garrus chose the flux music because he mistakenly thought shep liked it, I know for sure he didn’t like it based on his comment in ME1. Hopefully we get to hear some of these tracks on his visor, it would be so cool if they could drop them in the game as club music or music videos.

[Twilight_Princess]

Rannin wrote...

outmane wrote...

If not then im not too worried about him getting indoctrinated. If its a Virmire type event ill just bring someone else or choose garrus over the other squaddy (might be a bit of metagaming but since its my story to write I dont feel so bad)

Lol, I think we all feel the same way.  I'll take Garrus over any squadmate at this point.


On a side note, I would have a hard time finishing the game if there was no way for Garrus and I to have a happy ending.  I think it would be a very hard thing for me.  I don't know if I could do it.

Bioware already broke my heart with the whole Alistair thing. And by that I mean giving female wardens fewer choices on how to resolve THAT problem *eye twitch* which made the all endings with a romanced alistair bittersweet no matter what you did. I'm hopping Garrus will have that good final happy ending.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:16 .

[SuiteAces]

PrimalEden wrote...

Thank you Rannin! Thank you Ariadnee!
I know, it's not hilarious, but it made sense to me. Garrus needed all the help he could find so......ok, now I'm too embarrassed to go further with the innuendo...

No problemo.  I'll be here if you need me.    I can't get enough of how awesome of a char he is, and I really can't help but love this universe that Bioware has created for us.

[PauseforEffect]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

 Do you think he also used his visor to google search tips on how to hit on human women during that scene? LOL.


Makes me think Garrus chose the flux music because he mistakenly thought shep liked it, I know for sure he didn’t like it based on his comment in ME1. Hopefully we get to hear some of these tracks on his visor, it would be so cool if they could drop them in the game as club music or music videos.

ha! That would have made my day! Only thing funnier than catching him doing that would be the possible advice he'd get from asking others...
Grunt: With a big stick
Tali: You're kidding...
 That would be so awesome to hear his music preference! wait...come to think of it....so that's why I'd catch him doing nothing in the middle of combat at odd times! Garrus! Shame on you! Stop listening to bang, bang, boom and make those scions go bang, bang, boom!

[SuiteAces]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Bioware already broke my heart with the whole Alistair thing. And by that I mean giving female wardens fewer choices on how to resolve THAT problem *eye twitch* which made the all endings with a romanced alistair bittersweet no matter what you did. I'm hopping Garrus will have that good final happy ending.

Hyrule, you really hit it right on the nail with that one.  I was soo miffed at what they did with Alistair, I loved my innocent white knight.  I mean Morrigan was cool and I had a good sis'mance with her, but hell if I am sharing my man with her UGH!!! Hell, we could have just used a turkey baster to get the job done, am I right?  They didn't actually HAVE to do it?

[PauseforEffect]

Rannin wrote...

No problemo.  I'll be here if you need me.    I can't get enough of how awesome of a char he is, and I really can't help but love this universe that Bioware has created for us.

Indeed!

[Twilight_Princess]

Rannin wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Bioware already broke my heart with the whole Alistair thing. And by that I mean giving female wardens fewer choices on how to resolve THAT problem *eye twitch* which made the all endings with a romanced alistair bittersweet no matter what you did. I'm hopping Garrus will have that good final happy ending.

Hyrule, you really hit it right on the nail with that one.  I was soo miffed at what they did with Alistair, I loved my innocent white knight.  I mean Morrigan was cool and I had a good sis'mance with her, but hell if I am sharing my man with her UGH!!! Hell, we could have just used a turkey baster to get the job done, am I right?  They didn't actually HAVE to do it?

I sported a disgruntled fangirl pout when I realized it was the ONLY way to keep you and him alive...god and then they had the nerve to SHOW you them getting it on? Like it wasn't painful enough? At least he looked frightened  I guess...like he was about to mate with a spider. So no pulling that crap again Bioware , you can't build up an amazing romance like that only to give the player a choice of endings that are ALL horrid.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 24 novembre 2011 - 04:01 .

[Homebound]

Alistair was a bro, just like Garrus. Cant understand why everyone seems to hate him so much. I remember when I first met Alistair in the game, he made a joke about how the Blight brought people closer together after trolling some mage. I instantly new I would like the guy. but i digress.

didnt anyone see the pic I posted? Its Garrus-cat doing callibrashuns.

[outmane]

I guess we dont have the same Bioware romance background. I romanced Zev and was pretty pleased how it goes from casual to somewhat serious beteween him and the warden. By opposite to going from serious to dead with Alistair.

You guys keep making me worried like that about Garrus and ill have to go read the leaks!

[UrsulaCousland]

outmane wrote...

I guess we dont have the same Bioware romance background. I romanced Zev and was pretty pleased how it goes from casual to somewhat serious beteween him and the warden. By opposite to going from serious to dead with Alistair.

You guys keep making me worried like that about Garrus and ill have to go read the leaks!

My only hope there is I don't think the Grand Poobah (David Gaider) wrote Garrus or had much to do with the romances in general in the Mass Effect galaxy. He's the guy that lives by "Bittersweet is best" - or at least seems to make the most noise out of it. That Alistair romance was heartbreaking. Of course, I fangirl over Fenris (another of his romances) and that one's not quite so bitter - you just have to be patient while Fenris gets his head on straight.

*sigh* One thing I love about the Garrus romance is it's remarkably less angsty than any of the DA romances I've done. I'd love to see this one be able to turn out well, and I think I'll be badly disappointed if that doesn't happen. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 24 novembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[AlphaDormante]

I actually liked the Alistair romance quite a bit. Most of the endings were pretty bittersweet, yeah, but not all relationships work out just the way we want them to in real life. I think it's realistic, and that the many obstacles in his romance fit the dark, bleak world of DA fairly well.

...I do hope they don't pull anything like that with Garrus, though. I CANNOT GIVE UP TWO AWKWARD ADORKABLES, BW. YOU ASK TOO MUCH OF ME.

@Hellbound I saw! Laughed my ass off, too

[UrsulaCousland]

AlphaDormante wrote...

I actually liked the Alistair romance quite a bit. Most of the endings were pretty bittersweet, yeah, but not all relationships work out just the way we want them to in real life. I think it's realistic, and that the many obstacles in his romance fit the dark, bleak world of DA fairly well.

...I do hope they don't pull anything like that with Garrus, though. I CANNOT GIVE UP TWO AWKWARD ADORKABLES, BW. YOU ASK TOO MUCH OF ME.

@Hellbound I saw! Laughed my ass off, too

Just to be clear, I was a HUGE Alistair fan. I was just   at the twist. I'd really rather not see GarrusxFem!Shep walk a similar route. Not everything has to be dark and gritty (the real world is plenty of that, and I know the vast majority of relationships aren't happy endings either).  I guess I am enough of an escapist that I like to see a happy ending once in a while.

[SuiteAces]

You are so very right Arcian about Varric.  Though, tbh I really wanted to romance Varric

I don't know if Bianca would let me, though