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[ThatDancingTurian]

leonia42 wrote...

On the note of "being behind", this is like the sixth or seventh Garrus appreciation thread and the last one is still running in the non-spoilers section and about to hit the 1100 post mark. We're only deceptively behind

There's about an equal amount of discussion that goes on in both Calibration threads but I'd wager we have a high degree of intellectual conversation compared to other threads. Sure, we have our pages full of pictures and general "squeeing" but I like to think the Garrus fans are a diverse, mature bunch that can appreciate things on multiple levels (and we do talk about turians in general, not just Garrus).

I guess in Miranda's case her fanbase isn't enitrely sure of her role in the game yet so there is more speculation whereas those of us here know Garrus is more or less a permanent squaddie already and have less to worry about.

Anyway, loving all the insights everyone has on Garrus as a character, always interesting to compare notes.

@Aris: I agree, not a big fan of humanity taking over C-Sec but I get the feeling it's an allusion to humans getting more and more special in general. The trend will probably continue in ME3 with the game opening up on Earth, sadly.

About the only cool thing about Bailey is that he is voiced by Colonel Tigh. And yes, he was in a short comic: Inquisition Not sure how canon that little comic is but yeah, there it is.

Very true. I'm less concerned about page count now than I was last year, right after the game came out and there was all of that discussion and naysaying going around about how, "They can die! They won't be important!". Most of the major game decisions have been made by now, Garrus is confirmed, he got a lot of attention in the demos and early screencaps and the devs seem to acknowledge his popularity. I don't think we need to prove anything to anyone at this point.

As for Bailey, I'd heard he was voiced by a guy in BSG. I haven't seen that so it means nothing to me, but I guess that's why he's popular.

He may have been a bigot, but I can't blame Joram Talid for feeling like the humans are trying to take over. They ARE taking over. Especially if you end up with that nonsensical 'all-human' Council. And then you have people like Bailey, arrogantly thinking that after two years he knows everything there is to know about the Citadel and making big talk about how the system doesn't work as he takes kick-backs from human criminals. Pallin is probably rolling in his grave.

I can't stand the 'humans are special' thing. I can't stand that ME3 is about the destruction of all races and yet it still sounds like it's going to be all about the humans, from the single human planet we're so concerned with to the scores of Cerberus idiots we'll have to fight. And we finally get to go to other homeworlds, but to ask them in their hour of need to help us with ours. Because humanity is soooo important. I really shouldn't be surprised, I know, the other two games were human-centric too. I guess I just assumed it was a necessary evil in ME2 or it was to establish our hero in ME1, and in the finale it would be about everyone banding together . It was a bit naive of me, I guess.

EDIT: TotP is not really completely Garrus-related, but he's in there and it's hilarious. Source.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 23 juin 2011 - 11:02 .

[Sister Helen]

Love it. ^ ^ ^

Modifié par Sister Helen, 23 juin 2011 - 10:58 .

[CroGamer002]

LMAO!

[Leonia]

Still laughing. Poor Jacob.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Arcian wrote...

Also, the "This takes me back"-joke never gets old.

Agreed. Still trying to decide which I love more, Zaeed's comment or Grunt's.

[Lady Olivia]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I can't stand the 'humans are special' thing. I can't stand that ME3 is about the destruction of all races and yet it still sounds like it's going to be all about the humans, from the single human planet we're so concerned with to the scores of Cerberus idiots we'll have to fight. And we finally get to go to other homeworlds, but to ask them in their hour of need to help us with ours. Because humanity is soooo important. I really shouldn't be surprised, I know, the other two games were human-centric too. I guess I just assumed it was a necessary evil in ME2 or it was to establish our hero in ME1, and in the finale it would be about everyone banding together . It was a bit naive of me, I guess.

Human-centric plots in ME are an extension of the typical "hero's journey" quest narrative. Humanity as a whole is the flawed hero trying to find their place in the world - a young upstart that goes through temptations and saves the galaxy through courage and resourcefulness.

It's just an upscaled version of Shepard; like Shepard is the "chosen one," so is humanity. Or if you prefer, Shepard is the avatar of humanity (hurray for stating the obvious).

They're taking this to new levels with ME3. Paraphrasing Hudson, "In ME1 you can lose a team member, in ME 2 the whole team, and in ME3, entire civilisations."

I bet they'll make us choose between saving the homeworlds of different companions. A no-brainer for me, really. 

[Rheia]

*laugh* My favorite is Mordin's expression.

To echo Aris, though... ME3 Earthcentric theme that we've seen so far bothers me too. I try to remain optimistic that they'll play a lesser part of triology conclusion, but time will tell I suppose. It's just so strange for it all to be about humanity, especially after being exposed to so many alien cultures during 1 and 2.

Eh. I feel like I'm derailing the thread now... hm. Any of you guys remember Lotsb chat log dossier on Garrus? For some strange reason it makes me think that Garrus may be on the Salarian planet visiting his ill mother in their care prior to rejoining Shepard.

[elearon1]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Agreed. Still trying to decide which I love more, Zaeed's comment or Grunt's.  

Zaeed's for sure; that was just awesome!

[Obsydian]

oh wow. i missed so much in the past few hours! *deep breath* here we go.

In response to being behind? agreed with leonia. we're not even remotely behind. I mean, it does help that Garrus has been around for longer than Miri, but he's got so many threads dedciated to him. and lets not forget Clan Vakarian too.

Re: Bailey... I liked Bailey! Of course, BSG was one of my favorite shows forever, so it helps that his voice was Tigh from there... i really did like him though. he was not the sort of person i though would sympathize with Thane. and he did.... i thought that for an NPC.. specially a human NPC, he was pretty well done.

I know ME3 will be happening quite a bit on Earth, but aren't we also going to Tuchanka and Palaven and the Salarian planet too? i feel as though they've been showcasing Earth quite a bit cause it makes it feel a bit closer to home and it draws people in a lot more than showing off Palaven (much as us turian fans might like that) but the Reapers are attacking EVERYTHING, not just Earth... so the war is a galactic war.

that comic.... poor Jacob! .....lol.... its sad, i've grown a sad sort of appreciation for Jacob. I would NEVER romance him *shudder... humans....* but gah! he's adorable. kinda like a puppy.

and lastly. NIHLUS!!!!!!!! I love that Nihlus picture.

[LuskeRikke]

Same as Obsy, I should stop sleeping for 12 hours...

On the topic of why Garrus left C-Sec, I really don't think he was fired. I recently read a book about Dynamic Characters, and no doubt Garrus is one of them, but as I read that book, I was practically analyzing Garrus' character.
People do things out of fear and love, whether they know it or not. Garrus fears failure, a thing he constantly meets when he's working for C-Sec (think Dr. Saleon). No doubt he has a love for justice too, a thing that is hindered by red tape on the Citadel. And when both of them are opposing him, he reacts to it. It would be logical for me that he would leave C-Sec. Any other character in his situation might not have done the same.
But those are just my spectulations.

As for Baily. I think he was okay, at least he doesn't drive me crazy like Liara does, she's the only character in this universe I truly dislike.

I have no thoughts on what'll be happening with Earth or any other planet, I never gave it a thought. I'll just wait and see.

[BubbleSauce]

ArcanaLegacy wrote...

@BubbleSauce: Based on what you just said - I think ud find these 2 fanfics very pleasing. Theyre quite popular and I highly recommend them to whoever hasnt read them.

They actually are based on the game [including game events and such] and the progression of the relationship throughout. Sure theres some "steaminess", but only in a chapter or two. Its definitely not the center focus of the FF. It focuses more on the relationship as a whole.
- Made For You

- If You Need Me
and ive actually heard of spirit of redemption from a few people. Thats one of the FF's I plan on reading next

@ makalathbonagin: .......thats....disturbing.

I'll give them a read, thanks very much!

[-Skorpious-]

Phaedon wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

I was playing ME2 the other day and something struck me - does anyone else like to believe that Garrus was 'fired' from C-sec shortly after the events of ME? I always found it odd that a paragon Garrus, who swore that he will use his experience traveling with Shepard to go back to C-sec and "make a difference", decided to run to Omega and play space-batman.

The way I see it, Garrus rejoined C-sec immediately after the battle of the Citadel. Naturally Garrus shared his experiences on Ilos and Virmire with his superiors, both revealing the truth about Sovereign's origins and warning them of the coming invasion, but quickly grew frustrated when his accounts were casually dismissed as "rumors spread by Saren" and numerous rebuttals of "Saren's flagship was of Geth design". Unfettered, Garrus began a thorough investigation of the clean-up process on the Citadel. He soon found, however, that direct access to zones littered with debris from Sovereign were uncharacteristically restrictive for someone of his rank, as was any information gathered from said zones. Needless to say, Garrus became suspicious and began grilling C-sec higher-ups with blunt, to-the-point questions pertaining to said restrictions and lack of any substantial information, and generally stuck his (nose?) in places it didn't belong (this could also be a potential explanation of Garrus' knowledge of the Thanix Cannon).

To sum it up, C-sec (and possibly the Council) decided that the meddling of one of the Citadel's saviors was more trouble than he was worth, and fired Garrus, thus triggering his exodus to Omega (Shepard's death would eventually play a part in it as well).

This scenario can ring true for a renegade Garrus as well. Simply put, the council disliked the fact that a potential spectre candidate could be easily manipulated by half-truth theories and speculation, thus, Garrus had his name removed from consideration.

I personally like these explanations, as they not only stay true to Garrus' ME personality, but also provide background information on Garrus' failure to follow through the goals he laid for himself post-ME.

Anyways, I was curious as to what everyone else thought about this.

It is plausible, all right, but you are greatly underestimating how stubborn Garrus is and how difficult an 180 degree turn in morality (Garrus always had noble goals, but he never had noble means) can be with your 'mentor' dead.

I also left out the fact that I imagine that Garrus didn't simply drop his investigation because of his being firing by C-sec, but rather lost hope in convincing the Hierarchy/Council about the reapers existance upon hearing of Shepard's death (no matter how persistant Garrus may be, who would believe a lowly security officer if even a council spectre's testimony is dismissed?). 

With no one left (at least in Garrus' mind) actively pursuing the reaper threat, Garrus pulled a Thane - he wanted to make the galaxy a better place before the imminent invasion.

Also, if paragonized, the eventual return of his "cruel" streak can be attributed to the fact that he not only lost faith in the justice system, but also because he is essentially a man with "nothing left to lose" so to speak. 

[outmane]

 hey you guys make very good discussion during the night . Reading opinions of hte ppl here about CSec and Omega is quite interesting.

Did you guys knew you could choose dialogue in ME1 that did not paragon or renegade Garrus. With the middle answers then Garrus doesnt go back to CSec in ME2. I tend to see it as the grey answer ''well see what we do with Saren once we get there. Theres no point in making promises without seeing the big picture''. And since Garrus has problem with seeing situations in grey, it makes sense for his escapade to Omega after.

I really like Garrus brand of renegade. One fueled by wanting to do good. It makes it very believeble that he listens to and befriends either a paragon or a renegade Shep. Ive never seen him angry to any of my Shep's paragon choice because she gets the job done. And Garrus doenst really care about the means. Hes ok with 'an eye for an eye' but if you get it done with diplomacy hes seems just as impressed. Hes very open-minded when you think of it.

Also about changing his morals, what makes it hard is that hes very impulsive. He feels the injustice and reacts on that feeling which can be very lethal with his leadership/tactical skills. Like someone said be fore, there might be a piece of the puzzle missing as of why he reacts so much and has that much compassion for the victim and powerless (which drove him to Omega). I hope we find out in ME3!

[Phaedon]

Yeah, I pretty much agrees with the responses to my post.

It's a bit strange that this thread is not that active. Maybe assigning topics for discussion would help?

[Chewin]

For some strange reason I like hanging back in the old Garrus thread, not so much here. This home is...different, don't know why.

But ignore me, yeah discussion would help. Go go go!

[Phaedon]

Okay, then, ME3.

It'll definitely be a war story, focusing on big events, but there it'll most likely still have character development, like any other ME game.

Both ME1 and ME2 had some sort of Loyalty Mission for Garrus, would you want one for ME3 as well, or would you consider it anti-climatic?

[Liec]

I guess it's not as active because we are no longer in suspense about whether or not he's gonna return as a squaddie.

[BubbleSauce]

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 23 juin 2011 - 07:18 .

[Phaedon]

Liec wrote...

I guess it's not as active because we are no longer in suspense about whether or not he's gonna return as a squaddie.

Yeah, pretty much.

I can definitely see why the Miranda thread is more active.

[BubbleSauce]

[quote]BubbleSauce wrote...

[quote]Chewin3 wrote...

For some strange reason I like hanging back in the old Garrus thread, not so much here. This home is...different, don't know why.

But ignore me, yeah discussion would help. Go go go![/quote]

Ha! Irononic when you think about it, everyone who frequents the old garrus/turian thread, was afraid to come here because they thought people would lose interest and the old thread would die, now, it's the other way around.

It's not really that much of a great topic, but I was wondering what you guys expect to see from our visit to Palaven in Mass Effect 3. At first I was excited just at the fact that we would even be going there, (I was hoping for illium with more turians) but now it's been revealed that the turians have evacuated palaven, so it's clear that when we see it, the place will be in chaos, so much so, that the remaining turian population feels unsafe even being there. I don't want bioware to use this as an excuse to just make another beach level however, (like virmire) I want to see turian writings on signs and buildings, turian soldiers (always puzzeled me that we've never seen the turian military at work, we saw the STG's on virmire, and we've seen many asari commandos, come on, the turians make up the largest military body in the galaxy, where the hell are they hiding?!?) , some unique points on turian culture maybe, such as fictional landmarks. Frankly I'm a little worried, because of the footage of Sur'kesh from E3, it just looks like another level, nothing as far as I can see that outlines the fact that you are on a world governed by another race, if I wasn't told that it was Sur'kesh, I could easily take it as a futuristic earth...
I don't know, is that much to ask? I'm just a turian fanboy 

Edit: Sorry that double posted, I'll remove the text from the messed up one.

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 23 juin 2011 - 07:19 .

[Obsydian]

Chewin3 wrote...

For some strange reason I like hanging back in the old Garrus thread, not so much here. This home is...different, don't know why.

But ignore me, yeah discussion would help. Go go go!

i honestly quite agree with you. 

[Phaedon]

Palaven would be Illium but with Turians? I don't see it,sorry, I have created an image of Palaven that is the exact opposite of Illium, harsh, but not uncivilized, with architecture subtle, but beautiful in it's simplicity.

Modifié par Phaedon, 23 juin 2011 - 07:27 .

[Liec]

My guess is that the camp on the turian moon will be a "hub" like the Urdnot camp or the Citadel, with NPCs and shops. The devs have said that there will be lots of stuff to buy in ME3 so I suppose each major race will have a city to explore.

That's a good point about the turian military being unseen so far. So far turians have been either mercs or csec officers... then again there's never been a chance in the context of the games to see a turian soldier, but that's pretty much guaranteed to change in ME3 <.<

[Nashiktal]

Phaedon wrote...

Palaven would be Illium but with Turians? I don't see it,sorry, I have created an image of Palaven that is the exact opposite of Illium, harsh, but not uncivilized, with architecture subtle, but beautiful in it's simplicity.

I agree with you Phaedon. Turians don't put much emphasis on fancy aesthetics. They go for function over form, and the hard working craftsmen seem to be the "artists" of the Turian culture so to speak. I suspect that had Turians had a renaissance of their own, instead of art it would have been an industrial revolution.


On a separate but not unrelated note, my brother and I were hanging out with his girlfreind while she was playing ME2, and she was deciding who she would romance. Her choice was between Garrus and Thane. (Poor Jacob)

After a while she decided to choose Thane because Garrus would not stop with the calibrations.  Makes me really glad they are improving character interaction in ME3. The calibrations thing was really ridiculous.