19887 réponses à ce sujet

[Pyn]

my main team in ME2 usually consists of Garrus, then once get Legion thats my main duo these days...
my fShep:


I'll get my own Saren-husk images later...

[Donnstar]

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

I have Garrus in my squad a lot, no matter which Shepard I'm playing. They all like him, so that works out well for me. I still missed him a lot on my last playthrough of ME1 though, just because he wasn't there at all times. That MaleShep is going to romance Tali in ME2, so he's bringing her everywhere, and the others have to alternate. With the smaller number of main quests in ME1 though, it feels like he's not there for enough of the big things.

And wow, that picture of Saren... I never noticed before that the red glow from Sovereign is focused in his eyes and behind his ribs. I guess I try not to look to closely when I know I have to attack him. ):

Donnstar wrote...

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

If Garrus was left to decide on his own, he would choose the Renegade path. That's how I judge which one is "better suited" to his personality.

[AlphaDormante]

Donnstar wrote...

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

Garrus strikes me as a Renegade with Paragon tendencies. He always focuses on the bigger picture, but he's pragmatic about it - he does care about the innocent, and will protect them at any given opportunity. If possible, I imagine he'd reach out for diplomatic resolutions rather than go in with guns blazing (unless those involved are scumbags). And he'd only harm civilians if 1) There were absolutely no other ways to neutralize his target, and 2) Said target was a dangerous individual whose escape would simply lead to an even larger amount of civilian deaths.

But despite his pragmatism, Garrus is still bleeding heart. It's easy to see why a Paragon Shepard could throw a wrench into the system he'd worked out, because when it comes down to it, he doesn't like people to die undeservingly. Saleon was scum, but no genius mastermind; he was harmless once thrown to the justice system. Sidonis was a cowardly traitor, but in the end, he was just a good person who got broken down and realized his mistake. They may have both done terrible things, and Garrus thought they were deserving of death, but a Paragon Shep can show him that his system of justice isn't flawless. His idea of who's "deserving" isn't black and white.

That's why he struggles so hard with those gray areas; all his career, he's rationalized his hatred for needless death with the perception that the death of everyone he's killed was needed. When Paragon Shep - someone whom Garrus greatly respects and admires - rolls in telling him he's wrong, and when there's that part of him that can see that and understand it, well - how would you feel?

That's just my opinion, though, no need to go spreading it around

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 23 décembre 2011 - 09:54 .

[outmane]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

I'll definitely have my Shepards do both, let Garrus shoot him and headbutt him. Either way, it's awesome. The whole mission is. I really liked their dialogue in the car when there's an option to say Shepard would have done the same thing, and Garrus says he learned from the best. It was perfect for Shepards who encouraged Garrus when he wanted to kill Saleon in ME1 and then told him to "remember this feeling" after it was done.

outmane wrote...

I hate that there isnt a extra dialogue after the LM if you dont paragon Garrus.
It makes it feels like letting Sidonis die = not caring for Garrus

What do you guys think Shep and Garrus might have said to each other after Sidonis death?

Somehow I missed this when I made my catch-up post.

It would have been nice if there was extra dialogue after the mission for Shepards who chose the Renegade path too, but when I think about it, a lot of his dialogue after the Paragon path is about not knowing what to do in these "gray" moral situations. Shepards who let him kill Sidonis (and in ME1, Saleon) allowed him to do what he wanted and probably agreed with that decision themselves, so there's nothing for him to feel confused about if he's not questioning his choices/instincts.

Without a morality conversation, there isn't as much to say. Killing Sidonis probably won't give him the same good feeling that killing Saleon did because it's more personal - his teammates are dead, and he's still hurt by the betrayal. But at least it gives him some peace. In the end, either solution shows that Shepard cares enough to help him with his problems. I would have liked a few lines with Garrus afterwards, although it is kind of funny that my FemShep started her romance with him only minutes after Sidonis' death.

I imagine my Shepards would just let Garrus know that he can talk to them about these things if he ever needs to. Shepard, from any background, knows how it feels to lose members of their team in battle, especially a Sole Survivor.

The bolded part is exactly where I  was going. Garrus questions himself (and others and the whay the universe works) so much, I was surprised the first time I played and kill Sidonis that Garrus didnt say something afterward about the whole thing not bringing him the peace he thought it would but at least making him able to move forward. Or something along those lines


Also I discovered that as long as you dont start romancing an other character, the romance prompt (reach and flexibility convo) will stay open with Garrus on the bottom left of the dialogue wheel. So you can go kill a few mercs after the post Sidonis dialogue and comeback to hit on the Turian. Instead of that awkward all-in-one convo death+blowing off steam...

Modifié par outmane, 23 décembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[outmane]

Donnstar wrote...

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

I think thats a tricky question here.

Renegade is probably what matches the most garrus hotheaded personality. He's badass, impulsive and got hurt enough by the system to believe that an-eye-for-an-eye is the real deal

BUT

Paragon is what matched the most Garrus ideals, his long term goals. Contrary to some renegade characters who think they know best (... like renegade Shep when he pulls a douchy move...) Garrus takes renegade solutions because he doesnt see any other options (or isnt offred any, by oposition to paragon Shep who is the luckiest persone in the universe). 

If we can split hairs id say Garrus is a Renegon. Because he has to be to get what he wants. If the <luck> was nicer to him he could be a Paragade.

[k8ee]

Skipping the fact that debating what his character ought to be is completely at odds with the quasi choose your own adventure q and a of the game (that sounded ****ier than I meant it to be... sorry, lol). Challenging Garrus with paragon choices seems like better story telling because we get to see change and growth in his character. Going renegade seems like just more of the same for him. Where the ends justify the means is a little obtuse and it certainly would begin to jade a person. Lets face it, Saren was the ultimate renegade (errr before he became indoctrinated anyway)... goal oriented, success at any cost. Which makes me wonder - when you ask Garrus about his squad and you say "sounds like you were a bunch of thugs" (or whatever Shep says) and then I think Garrus says something about no civilian causalities, etc, etc. Does he say this if you played ME1 renegade? I'd assume it says the same, but I haven't actually checked and it would make sense that he wouldn't mention or care as much about that sort of collateral damage.

I was going to go somewhere else with this, but my man toy came in with the spoils of his masterbaking and disrupted my train of Garrus... err I mean thought.

[petergg22]

He's renegade but with good intentions, like killing someone who mugs an innocent person.

[fatalfeline]

Donnstar wrote...

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

Hmmm I don't think of it like that. The Shepard I usually do is pretty much Paragon and from that perspective there's a lot to teach Garrus in ME1. Garrus is tired of the regulations in C-Sec that keep him from fighting crime the way he wants to, but Shepard can show him that there's still a right way to do things. He becomes Space Batman and more independent no matter what, but ParaShep can still remind Garrus of the lessons s/he taught him before in the loyalty mission. To me, it doesn't really matter what suits Garrus's personality better. Shepard can influence him to develop as a person and be more open-minded (consider the gray areas) or encourage him to continue on the more ruthless path he naturally tends to follow.(black-and-white moraliy). 

Modifié par fatalfeline, 24 décembre 2011 - 02:17 .

[outmane]

fatalfeline wrote...

Donnstar wrote...

So. Discussion. When pushing Garrus to renegade or Paragon path. Which one more suits his personality?

I think it goes without saying; renegade. The whole renegade garrus (archangel) is what Garrus is about. The paragon route doesn't match his character.

Hmmm I don't think of it like that. The Shepard I usually do is pretty much Paragon and from that perspective there's a lot to teach Garrus in ME1. Garrus is tired of the regulations in C-Sec that keep him from fighting crime the way he wants to, but Shepard can show him that there's still a right way to do things. He becomes Space Batman and more independent no matter what, but ParaShep can still remind Garrus of the lessons s/he taught him before in the loyalty mission. To me, it doesn't really matter what suits Garrus's personality better. Shepard can influence him to develop as a person and be more open-minded (consider the gray areas) or encourage him to continue on the more ruthless path he naturally tends to follow.(black-and-white moraliy). 

I like what you wrote here but lets not forget renegade isnt meant to be a black-and-white view (you can roleplay as you wish obviously but what I mean is paragon/renegade isnt good/evil). Renegade is a grey outlook on the world - one could say even greyier then paragon can ever be.

[fatalfeline]

I mean to Garrus. You can't stop Garrus from being a good guy. He wants justice and a more "Renegade" Garrus is more ruthless. There are good guys and there are bad guys. The bad guys need to be taken down by any means necessary. That's a black-and-white view of the world. Renegade people tend to be gray with their actions, but Garrus is and probably always will be a good guy at heart who tries do things with the right intentions no matter how brutal his methods might become. (like Batman *cough*) 

Edit: I guess it's more of Garrus's mindset. If Garrus becomes more "Paragon" and merciful, then he has to see that things aren't always simple. Kind of what Samara says about a criminal who is also a loving father. No one (except the Reapers, probably) is truly "evil" and there are even some who might do good if given a second chance (like Sidonis turning himself in if spared).

Modifié par fatalfeline, 24 décembre 2011 - 02:48 .

[outmane]

I understand more what you meant now Fatal

Sometimes I wonder if Garrus could truly ever be a renegade... He can be ruthless alright but he's also so so idealistic.

From all the Sheps I have the real cold-hearthed renegade one is the only ones who dont like Garrus cause hes not <grey> enough and too hot-headed for backroom politics.
 

[Reptilian Rob]

petergg22 wrote...

like killing someone who mugs an innocent person.

That's a little, overboard don't you think?

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Garrus' writer did call him a "compassionate Renegade", which would probably make him a Renegon if we ever tried to play a Garrus Shepard through the games, making decisions as he would. He could never be a pure Renegade in-game because Renegade choices aren't always consistent (and neither are Paragon). If we go by the definitions of what Paragon and Renegade are supposed to be, with one being more lawful and the other "forget the rules and do what needs to be done", his instincts would lean towards Renegade in most cases.

outmane wrote...

Also I discovered that as long as you dont start romancing an other character, the romance prompt (reach and flexibility convo) will stay open with Garrus on the bottom left of the dialogue wheel. So you can go kill a few mercs after the post Sidonis dialogue and comeback to hit on the Turian. Instead of that awkward all-in-one convo death+blowing off steam...

I know that now, but on my first playthrough, I wanted to be completely sure that I had the Garrus romance locked-in. Whenever I get around to replaying that FemShep, I'll probably split them into two separate conversations. Garrus ran out of stuff to say too early if you talked to him after every mission anyway.

Oh, I just remembered something that was a bit awkward in the Renegade path. If you don't get Sidonis to talk at all and only wait to move until Garrus says he's ready, Shepard looks totally suspicious, like she's just stalling for time... and she even looked kind of excited. I was surprised Sidonis didn't try to leave sooner. xD

k8ee wrote...

 Which makes me wonder - when you ask Garrus about his squad and you say "sounds like you were a bunch of thugs" (or whatever Shep says) and then I think Garrus says something about no civilian causalities, etc, etc. Does he say this if you played ME1 renegade? I'd assume it says the same, but I haven't actually checked and it would make sense that he wouldn't mention or care as much about that sort of collateral damage.

Yes, he does. Although I don't think I chose the "sounds like you were a bunch of thugs" line, so he might say it no matter what Shep's comment is.

[Pyn]

got my part of Lordess Alicia's xmas gift exchange:


yep; that fanfic I'm working on that is a peek in a way... tip: listen to http://trifonic.band....com/track/lies

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Aww, Saren headbump! That's adorable. Amazing artwork too.

[Garnet]

http://tsukahime.deviantart.com/

http://ayshala.deviantart.com/

http://blacklion310.deviantart.com/

...my terrible amazing photo-editing skills..


Just wanted to spread some holiday cheer!

Also ^^^^ That saren headbump.. it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :3 So cute.

Modifié par xGarnetx, 24 décembre 2011 - 09:55 .

[Friera]

Just a question. Is there a big difference between a renegade romance and paragon? Like Friend and rivalry romance in DA? Different lines...scenes etc?

[txmn1016]

Friera wrote...

Just a question. Is there a big difference between a renegade romance and paragon? Like Friend and rivalry romance in DA? Different lines...scenes etc?

For some characters the renegade options have some amusing responses. 

[txmn1016]

xGarnetx wrote...



Just wanted to spread some holiday cheer!

Also ^^^^ That saren headbump.. it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :3 So cute.

Aw thanks!  And Mordin genuinely looks like an elf in that last one. 

[Shepard-Is-God]

Well as I play as male Shep' I would not want a romance nor would it be very appropriate to be able to romance every single crew member. I agree with fewer calibrations and having alot more actual convo's with him though, you don't get enough input from a character which you have such a past with, in my opinion.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

So much cute Christmas fanart! Now, what happened to that Santa Saren I found last year with the geth reindeer?
And Garnet, your photo-editing skills are awesome.

Friera wrote...

Just a question. Is there a big difference between a renegade romance and paragon? Like Friend and rivalry romance in DA? Different lines...scenes etc?

There isn't really a difference. Shepard can choose between a couple lines of dialogue every now and then, but I wouldn't call any of them Paragon/Renegade. Well, except that one Paragon interrupt. These things can lead to a few different lines from Garrus, but no big variations like in DA2.

[Kalyppso]

Merry Christmas everyone!

I don't know about you, but this is appropriate in my climate:


~jumpjumpman

Here's a video for reference, though I'm sure all in this thread are familiar with the line.

2012 and ME3 are right around the corner! Calibrate! Celebrate!


with ~Yunaito88

Modifié par Mademon, 25 décembre 2011 - 03:01 .

[Lady Olivia]

Hey guys and gals. Spirits, I miss communicating my love for turians with this thread! But I'm terribly afraid of spoilers. So I just came by to say, happy holidays!

[UrsulaCousland]

Happy Holidays, everyone!

ETA: crap...TotP and I'm phone posting. Can someone grab a pic please?
Thank you!

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 26 décembre 2011 - 05:23 .