had to up the Gamma more though, but texture-details was already on Ultra-High
No Shepard Without Vakarian: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion
Débuté par
Chimervera
, juin 14 2011 12:55
#6101
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 03:26
Pyn
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finally it took most of the screenshots I wanted in ME1; here's some Nihlus:
had to up the Gamma more though, but texture-details was already on Ultra-High
had to up the Gamma more though, but texture-details was already on Ultra-High
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#6102
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 03:53
The Sarendoctrinator
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Obsy's going to love all these Nihlus pictures. 
I hope he eventually gets Spectre status too. It seems like the perfect job for him.
Yeah, we didn't get to find out much about Nihlus' time as a Spectre, but I think his Renegade level would be somewhere between Garrus and Saren. He must have been a good one if they wanted him to teach the very first human Spectre. Now, that's an interesting thought. Saren taught Nihlus, Nihlus would have taught Shepard, and Shepard taught Garrus.outmane wrote...
@Sarendoc
Youre right its hard to compare Garrus and Nihlus becasue they really are at diffrent place in their lives. I always had the feeling that Garrus could become a lot like Nihlus . Maybe thats why im still hoping he gets Spectre status in ME3. He'd do just fine (so much as you consider Nihlus being a good Spectre even if hes most likely of a renagade morals)
I hope he eventually gets Spectre status too. It seems like the perfect job for him.
#6103
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 04:30
outmane
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Many people beleive that he souldnt be given that status because he' either too much of a renegade (sacrificing a few to save many) or not enough of a renegade (quitting Spectre training to becomr a vigilante and then handeling badly the death of his squad on Omega) to their own tastes.
To me he's just the right amount of renegade. I dont hold against him his reaction to the death of his team. Like Garrus asked himself, what would have Shep done if that happened to her/him?
Garrus has be knocked down many times and always found a way to come back and persue his ideal of justice. He quit C-Sec when he felt it wasnt for him, opened himself to learning from a humanv and quit Spectre training when he saw it was just slowing him (I can see how he didnt get along with Turian trainers after learning from Shep. He said it himself, hes a bad Turian. They probably never seen him as a brilliant example of his species. Too human to their standards).
Considering Shepard went to work with Cerberus when the Citadel refused to help him, Garrus vigilante stunt looks pale. In the end all hes missing is the Spectre title to make his status official. Hes pretty much behaving like one already.
Hopefully ME3 will put him in the Turians good graces (one can always hope).
To me he's just the right amount of renegade. I dont hold against him his reaction to the death of his team. Like Garrus asked himself, what would have Shep done if that happened to her/him?
Garrus has be knocked down many times and always found a way to come back and persue his ideal of justice. He quit C-Sec when he felt it wasnt for him, opened himself to learning from a humanv and quit Spectre training when he saw it was just slowing him (I can see how he didnt get along with Turian trainers after learning from Shep. He said it himself, hes a bad Turian. They probably never seen him as a brilliant example of his species. Too human to their standards).
Considering Shepard went to work with Cerberus when the Citadel refused to help him, Garrus vigilante stunt looks pale. In the end all hes missing is the Spectre title to make his status official. Hes pretty much behaving like one already.
Hopefully ME3 will put him in the Turians good graces (one can always hope).
#6104
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 05:06
The Sarendoctrinator
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I agree. Garrus really is acting like a Spectre, just more like the unique type of Spectre that Shepard is. I don't know how many Spectres have teammates besides Shepard, but Saren and Nihlus both worked alone, and I got the idea that was normal. Garrus built a team though. He's a good leader, one that people wanted to join up with. It's the best of both worlds.
#6106
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 05:48
SgtPepper667
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I would love to see Garrus as a Spectre. I think he would make an excellent one...especially learning from Shepard.
#6107
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 06:17
Pyn
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best Nihlus recolor I could do thus far:
3ds max
it'll do for now for me, now for next up...
3ds max
it'll do for now for me, now for next up...
Modifié par Pyn, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:18 .
#6108
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 11:22
Lady Olivia
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About the parallels between Nihlus and Garrus.
I've given this some thought in the past and, well, I don't think they have much in common. See, Saren and Nihlus are pretty much the prototype of Renegade and Paragon. And only a very, very renegade Shepard can make Garrus look like a paragon. Mostly I was under the impression that, if he had the chance, Garrus would be much more like Saren than he would be like Nihlus.
Thing is, we don't know that much about Nihlus. We know that, even as a young soldier, he was ready to forgo direct orders and do what he thought was best - which implies a certain amount of spite, but also a great sense of responsibility. We know that "Saren was impressed with the young soldier" and to me that says that Nihlus had to be very special indeed - which turned out to be true during his service as a Spectre.
On the other hand, at the time when Shepard meets Garrus he's - let's face it - just a random cop in a semi-civilian, volunteer police force. He shows some initiative, yes, but I don't think there's anything there that could impress an experienced spec-ops soldier like Shepard. I can imagine a zillion reasons why Garrus would want to join Shepard, but frankly, I have no idea why Shepard would want Garrus on her team.
In the course of their conversations, we discover that Garrus is the kind of man who thinks that sacrificing civilians in order to get to the bad guy is a perfectly fine strategy. And in Anderson's words, "Saren would sacrifice a thousand to save a million." Not to mention the whole eye for an eye philosophy; in that respect, I think Garrus went over the lines that not even Saren would cross. (Though that's conjecture; make of it what you will.)
And on Omega, left without guidance, Garrus fails terribly as a leader. "I let my feelings get in the way of better judgment," were those the words? We can only guess what he meant, but what I read there was, "I should have known I had a weak link in my team, but I was blinded by care and pride and now they're all dead." Perhaps the Garrus we know from the end of ME1 or the end of ME2 was Spectre material, but Archangel most certainly was not.
In summary, Garrus as a Spectre would be more similar to Saren than to Nihlus. But also, Garrus as a Spectre might be a pretty bad idea in general.
I've given this some thought in the past and, well, I don't think they have much in common. See, Saren and Nihlus are pretty much the prototype of Renegade and Paragon. And only a very, very renegade Shepard can make Garrus look like a paragon. Mostly I was under the impression that, if he had the chance, Garrus would be much more like Saren than he would be like Nihlus.
Thing is, we don't know that much about Nihlus. We know that, even as a young soldier, he was ready to forgo direct orders and do what he thought was best - which implies a certain amount of spite, but also a great sense of responsibility. We know that "Saren was impressed with the young soldier" and to me that says that Nihlus had to be very special indeed - which turned out to be true during his service as a Spectre.
On the other hand, at the time when Shepard meets Garrus he's - let's face it - just a random cop in a semi-civilian, volunteer police force. He shows some initiative, yes, but I don't think there's anything there that could impress an experienced spec-ops soldier like Shepard. I can imagine a zillion reasons why Garrus would want to join Shepard, but frankly, I have no idea why Shepard would want Garrus on her team.
In the course of their conversations, we discover that Garrus is the kind of man who thinks that sacrificing civilians in order to get to the bad guy is a perfectly fine strategy. And in Anderson's words, "Saren would sacrifice a thousand to save a million." Not to mention the whole eye for an eye philosophy; in that respect, I think Garrus went over the lines that not even Saren would cross. (Though that's conjecture; make of it what you will.)
And on Omega, left without guidance, Garrus fails terribly as a leader. "I let my feelings get in the way of better judgment," were those the words? We can only guess what he meant, but what I read there was, "I should have known I had a weak link in my team, but I was blinded by care and pride and now they're all dead." Perhaps the Garrus we know from the end of ME1 or the end of ME2 was Spectre material, but Archangel most certainly was not.
In summary, Garrus as a Spectre would be more similar to Saren than to Nihlus. But also, Garrus as a Spectre might be a pretty bad idea in general.
#6109
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 11:25
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"Scoped an' dropped, mate."xGarnetx wrote...
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#6110
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 11:55
The Sarendoctrinator
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@ Lady Olivia:
I just can't see Nihlus as a Paragon... Have you seen Shepard's conversation with Samara about her battle with Nihlus? She says that the way he escaped was by putting a civilian in danger and, knowing her code, Samara would have to save/not attack through that civilian. (I don't remember their exact words, but that's the basic overview.) It was a smart move, but sounds pretty Renegade to me. He also disobeyed orders in the military - to good results, but that's another Renegade trait, and one of the reasons why he fit the Spectre role so well. (His brief military history is on the wiki, which I believe took its info from his official bio.)
Shepard also has the option to come right out and say that he/she was impressed by Garrus after the battle at the clinic, complimenting his skills to shoot that target without harming the hostage. Why would Shepard want Garrus on the team, besides that? Well, he was investigating Saren, which means that he and Tali were the only squadmates at the time who were so closely involved with your mission. It's always good to have an extra person who believes Shepard around too.
Also, if we're going to choose someone in the Mass Effect series who can have the most in common with Saren and potentially become just like him, it's Shepard. Definitely Shepard. Garrus' morality is, in certain ways, just too different from Saren's.
About Garrus' ability as a leader: The game has proved that he's considered one of the best leaders on Shepard's team, as only Garrus and two others (Miranda/Jacob) can be successful team leaders in the suicide mission. His comment about failure is likely in regards to Sidonis' betrayal, and Garrus would have had no way of knowing what would happen there. Even if Sidonis had proven himself to be a strong, courageous fighter on the battlefield, everything can change during an investigation, especially when they threatened his family. His tactical skills on Omega were also impressive, so much that three large gangs of mercs needed to team up in order to defeat Garrus and his band of twelve.
I just can't see Nihlus as a Paragon... Have you seen Shepard's conversation with Samara about her battle with Nihlus? She says that the way he escaped was by putting a civilian in danger and, knowing her code, Samara would have to save/not attack through that civilian. (I don't remember their exact words, but that's the basic overview.) It was a smart move, but sounds pretty Renegade to me. He also disobeyed orders in the military - to good results, but that's another Renegade trait, and one of the reasons why he fit the Spectre role so well. (His brief military history is on the wiki, which I believe took its info from his official bio.)
Shepard also has the option to come right out and say that he/she was impressed by Garrus after the battle at the clinic, complimenting his skills to shoot that target without harming the hostage. Why would Shepard want Garrus on the team, besides that? Well, he was investigating Saren, which means that he and Tali were the only squadmates at the time who were so closely involved with your mission. It's always good to have an extra person who believes Shepard around too.
Also, if we're going to choose someone in the Mass Effect series who can have the most in common with Saren and potentially become just like him, it's Shepard.
Definitely Shepard. Garrus' morality is, in certain ways, just too different from Saren's.About Garrus' ability as a leader: The game has proved that he's considered one of the best leaders on Shepard's team, as only Garrus and two others (Miranda/Jacob) can be successful team leaders in the suicide mission. His comment about failure is likely in regards to Sidonis' betrayal, and Garrus would have had no way of knowing what would happen there. Even if Sidonis had proven himself to be a strong, courageous fighter on the battlefield, everything can change during an investigation, especially when they threatened his family. His tactical skills on Omega were also impressive, so much that three large gangs of mercs needed to team up in order to defeat Garrus and his band of twelve.
#6111
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 01:55
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The Nihlus/Samara scenario is paragon because Nihlus manipulated the loopholes in code to ensure he could escape and continue to serve the galaxy. If there was any real risk of the civilian being hurt, he would never have considered it. It's called heroic pragmatism, not unlike the actions of classic heroes like Indiana Jones. Renegades THINK they are this, but they're just psychopaths trying to mask their lust for cruelty and suffering behind a moral system.
Paragon Shepard also did a similiar thing with Vasir's hostage in LotSB.
Paragon Shepard also did a similiar thing with Vasir's hostage in LotSB.
#6113
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 02:21
Mims
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/covers mouth from spoiler info ala Garrus.
But I'd say Nihlus was more paragon oriented too, for the simple fact that Saren knew he had to die rather than try and recruit him.
The thing is Nihlus was probably paragon for a turian. Turians have a somewhat destructive nature, at least in terms of combat. Remember, the ultimately good hierarchy kills 'civilians' if they do not surrender, simply because they do not see them as civilians. Which is not to say turians have a particular nature, but more that their idea of what is 'right' may not match up with traditional paragon logic.
[Although maybe the better term would be paragade.]
But I'd say Nihlus was more paragon oriented too, for the simple fact that Saren knew he had to die rather than try and recruit him.
The thing is Nihlus was probably paragon for a turian. Turians have a somewhat destructive nature, at least in terms of combat. Remember, the ultimately good hierarchy kills 'civilians' if they do not surrender, simply because they do not see them as civilians. Which is not to say turians have a particular nature, but more that their idea of what is 'right' may not match up with traditional paragon logic.
[Although maybe the better term would be paragade.]
Modifié par Mims, 18 janvier 2012 - 02:23 .
#6114
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 03:08
outmane
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A few things
About Nihlus morals, I see him most likely somewhere around paragade/renegon. Its pretty up to interpretation since it hasnt been stated anywhere and we see him for so little time its hard to tell. We did not see Nihlus put civilians in danger but then again, a renegade does not have to do so everyday after breakfast to be a renegade. I prefer to look at it from the perspective that as a Spectre he has to embody what is best in Turians and placing the good of the group before the good of the individual is part of their culture. Of course he's nothing like Saren but then Saren was more then a simple renegade. He and Benezia went crazy trying to outsmart a Reaper while sitting in it. Even renegade Shep thinks Saren needs to be stopped for the good of the galaxy. So its not a paragon thing for Nihlus to say no to Saren. He's just not indoctrinated.
As for Garrus and the elusive spectre status, I agree that in the beginning Garrus was just a random C-Sec officer to Shepard. There was no particular reason to have him tag alone (i would say the same with all the other alien you recruit in ME1 without the slightest background check). But the thing is that Garrus wants to do more then be a C-sec officer and work with a human Spectre to have a chance to learn. Thats a lot of determination and commitment to his ideals to leave all behind and choose the hard way to learn (working with an other species).
I personally dont see much ressemblance between Garrus and Saren other then being both renegades. Garrus is preoccupied with justice and righting the wrongs for the little people who get no attention from the autorities. Saren was into big schemes, politics and trying to protect the universe. To me Saren is much more like renegade Shep and Garrus is more like Samara.
Also, I really dont think Garrus fails as a leader. I think Garrus believes he fails as a leader. All we learn about his time on Omega is from garrus himself. I think its not that wrong that he blames himself. Had my Shepard lost some squad members she got attached to died on the line of duty, she might have felt the same way. Garrus is very hard on himself. But at least he sees where he went wrong and he seems to learn from it. The SM shows that he is a competent leader after all, which is a long way from the little C-Sec guy with a big dream he used to be.
About Nihlus morals, I see him most likely somewhere around paragade/renegon. Its pretty up to interpretation since it hasnt been stated anywhere and we see him for so little time its hard to tell. We did not see Nihlus put civilians in danger but then again, a renegade does not have to do so everyday after breakfast to be a renegade. I prefer to look at it from the perspective that as a Spectre he has to embody what is best in Turians and placing the good of the group before the good of the individual is part of their culture. Of course he's nothing like Saren but then Saren was more then a simple renegade. He and Benezia went crazy trying to outsmart a Reaper while sitting in it. Even renegade Shep thinks Saren needs to be stopped for the good of the galaxy. So its not a paragon thing for Nihlus to say no to Saren. He's just not indoctrinated.
As for Garrus and the elusive spectre status, I agree that in the beginning Garrus was just a random C-Sec officer to Shepard. There was no particular reason to have him tag alone (i would say the same with all the other alien you recruit in ME1 without the slightest background check). But the thing is that Garrus wants to do more then be a C-sec officer and work with a human Spectre to have a chance to learn. Thats a lot of determination and commitment to his ideals to leave all behind and choose the hard way to learn (working with an other species).
I personally dont see much ressemblance between Garrus and Saren other then being both renegades. Garrus is preoccupied with justice and righting the wrongs for the little people who get no attention from the autorities. Saren was into big schemes, politics and trying to protect the universe. To me Saren is much more like renegade Shep and Garrus is more like Samara.
Also, I really dont think Garrus fails as a leader. I think Garrus believes he fails as a leader. All we learn about his time on Omega is from garrus himself. I think its not that wrong that he blames himself. Had my Shepard lost some squad members she got attached to died on the line of duty, she might have felt the same way. Garrus is very hard on himself. But at least he sees where he went wrong and he seems to learn from it. The SM shows that he is a competent leader after all, which is a long way from the little C-Sec guy with a big dream he used to be.
#6115
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 03:29
BasementCat00
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Arcian wrote...
The Nihlus/Samara scenario is paragon because Nihlus manipulated the loopholes in code to ensure he could escape and continue to serve the galaxy. If there was any real risk of the civilian being hurt, he would never have considered it. It's called heroic pragmatism, not unlike the actions of classic heroes like Indiana Jones. Renegades THINK they are this, but they're just psychopaths trying to mask their lust for cruelty and suffering behind a moral system.
Paragon Shepard also did a similiar thing with Vasir's hostage in LotSB.
Is it not possible that he used her code against her just so he could make his escape? There might still be a chance that the civilian would get hurt should Samara chose to go after him instead. I do not really see Nihlus as a Paragon, similar to Garrus in ME1 in my opinion.
It is hard to pinpoint where he lies due to the lack of information, i will agree with that. But according to Samara though, did he not killed an unarmed civilian? Since we do not know the reason behind that, i can't really say that he's a renegade. I suppose he is somewhat similar to Garrus in this aspect.outmane wrote...
A few things
About Nihlus morals, I see him most likely somewhere around paragade/renegon. Its pretty up to interpretation since it hasnt been stated anywhere and we see him for so little time its hard to tell. We did not see Nihlus put civilians in danger but then again, a renegade does not have to do so everyday after breakfast to be a renegade. I prefer to look at it from the perspective that as a Spectre he has to embody what is best in Turians and placing the good of the group before the good of the individual is part of their culture. Of course he's nothing like Saren but then Saren was more then a simple renegade. He and Benezia went crazy trying to outsmart a Reaper while sitting in it. Even renegade Shep thinks Saren needs to be stopped for the good of the galaxy. So its not a paragon thing for Nihlus to say no to Saren. He's just not indoctrinated.
I second this, while he may have had an idea of how to form a team based on his time with Shepard, he does not have any experience when it comes to coping with the responsibility of his team loss. That does not mean that he is a bad leader though, he is too hard on himself. Thankfully Shepard was there to pull him out.outmane wrote...
Also, I really dont think Garrus fails as a leader. I think Garrus believes he fails as a leader. All we learn about his time on Omega is from garrus himself. I think its not that wrong that he blames himself. Had my Shepard lost some squad members she got attached to died on the line of duty, she might have felt the same way. Garrus is very hard on himself. But at least he sees where he went wrong and he seems to learn from it. The SM shows that he is a competent leader after all, which is a long way from the little C-Sec guy with a big dream he used to be.
Modifié par BasementCat00, 18 janvier 2012 - 03:44 .
#6116
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 06:16
Liec
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Arcian wrote...
The Nihlus/Samara scenario is paragon because Nihlus manipulated the loopholes in code to ensure he could escape and continue to serve the galaxy. If there was any real risk of the civilian being hurt, he would never have considered it. It's called heroic pragmatism, not unlike the actions of classic heroes like Indiana Jones. Renegades THINK they are this, but they're just psychopaths trying to mask their lust for cruelty and suffering behind a moral system.
Paragon Shepard also did a similiar thing with Vasir's hostage in LotSB.
Don't forget that Samara was chasing him because he killed an unarmed civilian. That sounds pretty Renegade to me
#6117
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 06:19
CovertMcAnonymous
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Pyn wrote...
But he lasts longer with a woman.
#6118
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 08:11
Lady Olivia
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Arcian covered that part expertly.The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
I just can't see Nihlus as a Paragon...
Is it? I think that depends entirely on the situation. In that one explicit example given in his bio, disobeying meant risking his reputation and perhaps his entire career - in order to save his men. I see that as being profoundly Paragon.He also disobeyed orders in the military - to good results, but that's another Renegade trait
That Shepard resembles Saren more than Garrus does (which I too believe), doesn't invalidate my claim that Garrus resembles Saren more than he does Nihlus.Also, if we're going to choose someone in the Mass Effect series who can have the most in common with Saren and potentially become just like him, it's Shepard.
Also, that last part is rather vague. Care to elaborate?Exactly. Thank you. Couldn't have said it better in a million years.Arcian wrote...
The Nihlus/Samara scenario is paragon because Nihlus manipulated the loopholes in code to ensure he could escape and continue to serve the galaxy. If there was any real risk of the civilian being hurt, he would never have considered it. It's called heroic pragmatism, not unlike the actions of classic heroes like Indiana Jones. Renegades THINK they are this, but they're just psychopaths trying to mask their lust for cruelty and suffering behind a moral system.
Paragon Shepard also did a similiar thing with Vasir's hostage in LotSB.
BasementCat00 wrote...
But according to Samara though, did he not killed an unarmed civilian? Since we do not know the reason behind that, i can't really say that he's a renegade.
Well, like you said, who knows what she saw? Perhaps the 'unarmed civilian' was a disarmed criminal.
Since we're at it: how exactly do we know for sure that she was talking about Nihlus? Did she mention his name? I can't remember.
Good point.Mims wrote...
But I'd say Nihlus was more paragon oriented too, for the simple fact that Saren knew he had to die rather than try and recruit him.
As for Garrus' [in]ability to lead... I had no doubts that the idea would be met with resistance.
Look, I'm not saying that he doesn't have the potential, or the charisma, or the tactical expertise. What I'm saying is that, at the time we got to see him in action - on Omega - he wasn't emotionally ripe to run that kind of an operation, and it turned into a catastrophic disaster. A good leader knows the strengths and weaknesses of his men, and the feasibility of his goals. Garrus didn't see, or didn't want to see that he had a weak link in his team. You could also look at it as biting off far more than he could chew. For me, either constitutes 'failure as a leader.'
Modifié par Lady Olivia, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:23 .
#6119
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 08:53
outmane
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@ LadyOlivia
I do agree with you on how Garrus bit more then he could chew on Omega. He's definitly an idealist. I find it harder to think that he's a bad leader because he failed once, I see it more as learning the hard way. Of course it's hard to compare with someone like Shepard who can do no wrong and will most likely succeed what ever route he/she takes.
I do agree with you on how Garrus bit more then he could chew on Omega. He's definitly an idealist. I find it harder to think that he's a bad leader because he failed once, I see it more as learning the hard way. Of course it's hard to compare with someone like Shepard who can do no wrong and will most likely succeed what ever route he/she takes.
#6120
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 10:51
kingjamesjr1
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Bah of all the characters to bring back Garrus what!!!! dunno how to feel about garrus who is a filler to me shouldnt be allow to be in full sqaud now if any character that should have been dlc should be him he sucks to me and thats my opinion what a worthless character and he was at the beginning also but never like him wanna be shepard fail version. To dev just kill him already sheesh!!!
#6121
Posté 18 janvier 2012 - 11:47
The Sarendoctrinator
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That's the same idea I got after reading some of those CDN news articles. For a turian, "Paragon" might emphasize the obeying the law and superior's orders aspect more than an in-game Paragon's morality, which includes decisions like setting the rachni queen free.Mims wrote...
Turians have a somewhat destructive nature, at least in terms of combat. Remember, the ultimately good hierarchy kills 'civilians' if they do not surrender, simply because they do not see them as civilians. Which is not to say turians have a particular nature, but more that their idea of what is 'right' may not match up with traditional paragon logic.
Renegade is also defined as breaking the rules, even if it was for good reason. This is the kind of "compassionate Renegade" path that Garrus follows - breaking the rules because there's no other way to help people. So yes, it's still a Renegade act.Lady Olivia wrote...
Is it? I think that depends entirely on the situation. In that one explicit example given in his bio, disobeying meant risking his reputation and perhaps his entire career - in order to save his men. I see that as being profoundly Paragon.
Others have already mentioned a few differences, but just to give an example - Garrus would go out of his way to save people, and that seems to be the most important part of his mission in life. He went to Omega for no other reason than to try to make life better for those people. Saren wouldn't concern himself with things like that. Of course he tried to save organic life in general, but as far as normal missions go, completing the mission is the most important thing to him, no matter how many innocents are killed in the process. He'll even be the one who shoots first.That Shepard resembles Saren more than Garrus does (which I too believe), doesn't invalidate my claim that Garrus resembles Saren more than he does Nihlus.
(Hopefully, this doesn't sound like I think Saren is cruel. He's my favorite; I agreed with most of the things he did, and understood the rest. But it's just not a path Garrus would go down. Garrus even shows his dislike for Saren and his methods in-game.)
This is the conversation where Samara mentions Nihlus by name.Since we're at it: how exactly do we know for sure that she was talking about Nihlus? Did she mention his name? I can't remember.
As I've said before, there was no possible way that Garrus could have predicted how one of his men would act when dealing with torture and threats against his family. It would take an incredibly strong person not to break under that kind of pressure.A good leader knows the strengths and weaknesses of his men, and the feasibility of his goals. Garrus didn't see, or didn't want to see that he had a weak link in his team. You could also look at it as biting off far more than he could chew. For me, either constitutes 'failure as a leader.'
Garrus trying to change Omega completely was probably more than he, or anyone, could have managed to accomplish, but he did change it a little. People started to have hope, and a few of them even decided to join Archangel and fight for a better life. It was enough for all three major merc groups to consider these otherwise ordinary people (under the command of a strong leader) a threat to their existence. That's how all the real revolutions begin, anyway. I wish we could have told him that.
#6122
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 12:28
ArcanaLegacy
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Nice I need to read like 5 pgs of posts! WOO!
But Im loving what I saw - so many lovely pics. And I second on what Kim said in the post above me. I would add to it - but I dont have much time right now to make my usual mountain of text XP
I came by to post a pic of something I found rather incredibly AWESOME.
Even in an alternate universe - Im STILL married to Garrus! Amalur demo has a tattoo that reminds me of Garrus' clan markings!
REPRESENT! *5 highs everyone in the thread*
*is a dork*
But Im loving what I saw - so many lovely pics. And I second on what Kim said in the post above me. I would add to it - but I dont have much time right now to make my usual mountain of text XP
I came by to post a pic of something I found rather incredibly AWESOME.
Even in an alternate universe - Im STILL married to Garrus! Amalur demo has a tattoo that reminds me of Garrus' clan markings!
REPRESENT! *5 highs everyone in the thread*
*is a dork*
#6123
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 12:33
Pyn
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yes Samara mentions Nihlus; here's some screenshot quotes I got:
#6124
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 12:36
The Sarendoctrinator
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Arcana, I plan to buy Alamur too (can't play the demo because of no online connection to my Xbox), and I was going to play a character with red hair and blue eyes too! xD I just might give him those markings so they can be from the same clan - Clan Vakarian.
@Pyn: Thanks for the screenshots!
@Pyn: Thanks for the screenshots!
Modifié par The Sarendoctrinator, 19 janvier 2012 - 12:36 .
#6125
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 12:51
ArcanaLegacy
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I actually LOVED the fact that Nihlus was mentioned in the game. Also, there's an image of him in the codex in the "Spectres" section 
@Kim: AW! you must get a chance to play it!
I just downloaded in yesterday - I kept messing with the CC. Barely played actual gameplay Im so happy we can play as a female! WOO! And there's some interesting classes[4 in total]. Hard to choose! I might spam this demo XP
Im still fiddling with the hairstyles, but theres ALOT of them. I found myself trying to decide b/w like 5! From bald - to short, REALLY short, and one is quite long that drapes on the shoulders. And for once - im playing as a red head that actually looks good! XD In me3 - i tried as a red head, but I wasnt fond of the shades they had. More variety in amalur. You shouldve seen my face in the tattoo section when I saw the one in the image i posted. Im like "
.....wait, that looks similar to- hmmm *puts tattoo in blue* OMG! VAKARIAN CLAN MARK - AMALUR STYLE!!!! 
"
i think im too obsessed with turians. Is that possible? Oh well - i dont care! I LOVE ME SOME TURIANS!
If someone in amalur flirts with me - this is my character: "Oh sorry. Note the clan marking on my face? Yea - Im taken."
edit: sdjkvnhfkjsnhbkgjfs TOTPG brb.
^^click for source.
This IS a true fact XP I know LOADS of ppl of romanced kaiden because Garrus wasnt an option....
And shepard - what u mean you cant choose!? We'll help you! Pick the one that didnt practically call you a "traitor". Hint: He's not the human.
Garrus and Kai are too mature for fist fights IMO. I see them throwing fists at each other as an unlikely scenario.
@Kim: AW! you must get a chance to play it!
I just downloaded in yesterday - I kept messing with the CC. Barely played actual gameplay
Im so happy we can play as a female! WOO! And there's some interesting classes[4 in total]. Hard to choose! I might spam this demo XPIm still fiddling with the hairstyles, but theres ALOT of them. I found myself trying to decide b/w like 5! From bald - to short, REALLY short, and one is quite long that drapes on the shoulders. And for once - im playing as a red head that actually looks good! XD In me3 - i tried as a red head, but I wasnt fond of the shades they had. More variety in amalur. You shouldve seen my face in the tattoo section when I saw the one in the image i posted. Im like "
.....wait, that looks similar to- hmmm *puts tattoo in blue* OMG! VAKARIAN CLAN MARK - AMALUR STYLE!!!! "i think im too obsessed with turians. Is that possible? Oh well - i dont care! I LOVE ME SOME TURIANS!
If someone in amalur flirts with me - this is my character: "Oh sorry. Note the clan marking on my face? Yea - Im taken."
edit: sdjkvnhfkjsnhbkgjfs TOTPG brb.
^^click for source.
This IS a true fact XP I know LOADS of ppl of romanced kaiden because Garrus wasnt an option....
And shepard - what u mean you cant choose!? We'll help you! Pick the one that didnt practically call you a "traitor". Hint: He's not the human.
Garrus and Kai are too mature for fist fights IMO. I see them throwing fists at each other as an unlikely scenario.
Modifié par ArcanaLegacy, 19 janvier 2012 - 12:58 .
