19887 réponses à ce sujet

[PalAvian]

outmane wrote...
Thanks you guys now I understand more what you mean  by <Part B> and I agree. The build up of the relationship is one of the most interesting art. Its what makes it stand apart from other romances. If we lok at it on the long run, we could consider ME2 from the middle toward the end and the beginning of ME3  as a big part B. But it also has to be well layered during ME3 to make sense. But since its probably gonna be possible to bring Garrus everywhere, i dont think we wil lack interactions (compared to other romances).

Also PalAvian is nice to see someone who understands the Garrus/Sidonis the same way I do. I always find its such a great issue to discuss. Hopefully there will be something serving the same purpose in ME3. Maybe about helping or not a group of endangered turians ?

Good to know you feel the same way. I don’t know about you, but I read so many fanfics with this Sidonis deal... Granted it’s a great device to create animosity and ‘tension’ between the two, that typically later gets ‘released’ , but it seems a tad clichéd... you know how some people say that women like a semi-dysfunctional guy so they can come and save him from himself. A bit like; mother knows best which is an oedipean creep fest mixed with a dash of superiority complex. Not my cup of tea at all.

The way I see it he wants to go after Sidonis, not so much for himself (why would he be that petty?) but to honor the memory of the guys that died as the cause of his betrayal. The guy is scum, you don’t choose to kill 10 people off to save yourself. He needs to go. If the situation were reversed and that happened to sheparad you can put your money that s/he will seek retribution. Specially if we’re talking of a renegade one.
Besides, because of Garrus’ turian background, being raised in a meritocracy where superiors are responsible for their subordinates, that also means they’re custodians of their well being. He has a responsibility here, not only with the men he lost that are now gone, but their families.

[k-baggs]

Playing through ME1 again.



Garrus gets knocked out in such undignified positions.

[LaurenShepard-N7]

k-baggs wrote...

Garrus gets knocked out in such undignified positions.

[outmane]

PalAvian wrote...

Good to know you feel the same way. I don’t know about you, but I read so many fanfics with this Sidonis deal... Granted it’s a great device to create animosity and ‘tension’ between the two, that typically later gets ‘released’ , but it seems a tad clichéd... you know how some people say that women like a semi-dysfunctional guy so they can come and save him from himself. A bit like; mother knows best which is an oedipean creep fest mixed with a dash of superiority complex. Not my cup of tea at all.

I have to say that paragon femsheps can turn out very mother-like if youre not careful with your dialogue choices. To my tastes, the <saving him from himslelf> i prefer to roleplay with my Sheps who are best friends with Garrus instead of romanticaly involved so I get some great dialogue and tension without going into that mother territory.

Some people also found great way to roplay their paragon interrupt in the case of Sidonis (I think it was TNT if I recall good) by linking it to Thane's story of his wife standing in front of his scope. It was pretty sweet.

The whole Sidonis thing might be a bit cliche but its the way its handledthat I like. Having multiple chances to back out and the diffrent dialogues you get for it really lets you roleplay at your heart content.

[k-baggs]

just feel like posting this screenshot again

[PalAvian]

outmane wrote...

I have to say that paragon femsheps can turn out very mother-like if youre not careful with your dialogue choices. To my tastes, the <saving him from himslelf> i prefer to roleplay with my Sheps who are best friends with Garrus instead of romanticaly involved so I get some great dialogue and tension without going into that mother territory.

Some people also found great way to roplay their paragon interrupt in the case of Sidonis (I think it was TNT if I recall good) by linking it to Thane's story of his wife standing in front of his scope. It was pretty sweet.

The whole Sidonis thing might be a bit cliche but its the way its handledthat I like. Having multiple chances to back out and the diffrent dialogues you get for it really lets you roleplay at your heart content.

Thanks for the heads up about the paragon thing. I find myself choosing paragon often mainly because I don’t like the red demon-like glowing eyes... I have to watch what I do.
What I do with Sidonis is that I let him talk, mainly because I enjoy the extra Garrus interaction. At the last possible minute I let him ‘take the shot’. My first play through I just let Garrus take the shot, down side was I was missing all the extra interaction... which I find annoying. Why do I have to pretend to disagree with him just to get the extra lines? And I don’t mean in the assassination dialogue, I mean for example when you’re sitting in the cab. Why can’t I get extra lines even if I agree with him? Arggggg....

[Damate]

Wow, this thread moved fast over the last 24hrs or so!

The Sidonis/Garrus deal: First and foremost, I agree with Dirgegun, Blankeflos and Sarendoctrinator: It's all a matter of the perspective each player brings to the table and how they choose to RP their Shep in response. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' choice in this situation, just what works for your Shep and how you are playing them.

My mainShep is mostly Paragon with a touch of Renegade here and there. I didn't see her stopping Garrus here as patronizing or even stepping in to 'save Garrus from himself' --> For better or worse, Garrus wants Shepard there and my Shepard will act in accordance to her own conscious. As she sees it (and thus not even remotely invalidating how other Sheps/players perceive the situation): Killing Sidonis doesn't bring the dead squad back. It doesn't help the dead squads family. And at the end of the day, Sidonis is beating himself up more painfully than a bullet to the head will.
The only thing I might have changed in how the scene plays it, would be the option to move aside -after- Shepard says the final Paragon lines. After looking back at Garrus through the scope, etc. Because, yes, ultimately it should be Garrus' choice and my mainShep would respect that... but to be someones equal and friend doesn't equate always agreeing with them. At the end of the day she's the one who has to look at herself in the mirror and live with what she sees there. So, for me, the situation had a lot to do with Shep's own morality and convictions, not just her being along for the ride.

Like I said: The option to still move aside at the very end would have been nice, just so it didn't seem like Garrus was being steamrolled. (though it's been some time since I've played the LM -- I think Garrus can still take the shot, can't he?)

That all said, I had a more Paragade playthrough that chose to let Garrus kill him: Not to feed Garrus sense of revenge though. She also felt killing Sidonis did little to mitigate what he did, as mentioned above. But for her it came down to the simple idea of prevention: He shouldn't be allowed to make the same choice again. Thus the expedient solution of a bullet to the head. It was less a matter of revenge and more one of vigilante style justice.

Both mindsets are, to me, perfectly valid when taken from the perspective of each individual Shepard in question. What would my own choice be if I was in her shoes? Probably the second option, to be honest. But I like the idealism in my canon Shep even if it's not what I would ultimately go with.

Hopefully some of that makes sense.... ⌐.⌐ I maybe should have waited until after my second cup of coffee... ¬.¬

Modifié par shygravel, 22 février 2012 - 03:16 .

[Damate]

As a note, I do like how Sidonis turns himself in if you don't off the guy. Only because it blends in nicely with Turian psychology as Bioware set it up back in ME1. The idea that, while Turians certainly do commit murder and one who does will try to get away with it -- if faced directly with their actions, they'll own up to it. Because one of the worst things a Turian can do - in the psychology of their own society - is fail to take responsibility for ones own choices/actions. So I thought that fit in nicely. Again, it doesn't make any previous choices 'right' or 'wrong' -- I just think it's nicely tied into previously established lore.

[NekOoNinja]

You guys bring me to my limits. I am not a native speaker, so I will have to better myself to avoid misinterpretations.

For me, my first playthrough of a RPG is usually a reflection of what I would have done. This is almost to Bioware games - their stories tend to "draw me in" and I start acting as if it was me in the game. The subsequent playthroughs are similar:  "what if I was a total renegade, no-nonsense Shepard? How would she think, feel, act? and basically adapt to that role. Lines blur there. I "role-play" but it is almost acting, pretending to be someone else. I'm basically one of these players who visit the Darkstar or Eternity every now and then, buy a few drinks, stare out of windows on the citadel or illium, click on the hamster in the captain's quarters to "feed" it, and occssionally "uses" the bathrooms on the Normandy, and pities that there are no real cab rides ingame - apart from LotSb.

To the Garrus/Sidonis thing:
I was thinking that Turians are Lawful Neutral (disciplined, orderly, law-obeying) but Garrus got definitely a lot more chaotic than that, through life experience. I was considering that he may reflect on these changes, questioning himself if it was the right way to go.

Garrus said he is lining up the shot, but we know how good of a sharpshooter he is, and Sidonis was sitting still. Would he not recognize his face? Was he waiting for Sidonis to reveal himself, to be absolutely sure? Was he really that determined to kill Sidonis? Paragon dialogue implies so, while the others don't elaborate on it. He only says something like "I'm glad this is over." So was he desperate or determined to take action?

However, I think Paragon shep got away a bit too easy with this one. I was half-expecting Garrus to not talk to Shep for the remainder of the game, cancelling their friendship, or be a lot more annoyed with her - thinking of the classic clash vs lawful and chaotic. But then again, there are True Neutral Shepards, (call me old fashioned, I still prefer the old 9-alignment system:blush:) , and the dialogue options can't cater them all.

Thanks for reading. And thanks to alll the renegade players to help gain insight on their ways.

Garrus. <3

[Eradyn]

Re: Sidonis

In the end, doesn't paragon Shep stand aside, too? Garrus ultimately is the one who chooses not to take the shot, iirc.

Modifié par Eradyn, 22 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[NekOoNinja]

Eradyn wrote...

Re: Sidonis

In the end, doesn't paragon Shep stand aside, too? Garrus ultimately is the one who chooses not to take the shot, iirc.

A couple more weeks and we might have insight on this. Can't...wait...

[outmane]

Eradyn wrote...

Re: Sidonis

In the end, doesn't paragon Shep stand aside, too? Garrus ultimately is the one who chooses not to take the shot, iirc.

Yes it is him who says something like <well youre right Shepard and backs out. Shep doenst have to twist his arm.

Also I agree with Neko that its hard to explain the intricacy of our choices when english isnt the native language. But its so nice to read everyone and the way they roleplay !

[PalAvian]

shygravel wrote...
As a note, I do like how Sidonis turns himself in if you don't off the guy. Only because it blends in nicely with Turian psychology as Bioware set it up back in ME1. The idea that, while Turians certainly do commit murder and one who does will try to get away with it -- if faced directly with their actions, they'll own up to it. Because one of the worst things a Turian can do - in the psychology of their own society - is fail to take responsibility for ones own choices/actions. So I thought that fit in nicely. Again, it doesn't make any previous choices 'right' or 'wrong' -- I just think it's nicely tied into previously established lore.

Point taken. But the flip side of that coin would be [addresing both of your posts], after the deed is done: ‘there are no leads in the death of Sidonis - Garrus: What a shame!’ (Hence he’s not in danger of being persecuted by C-Sec, so that kind of argument is mute) But the thing is that if you’re playing the game for the first time you’re not aware that the different outcomes of this situation lead pretty much down the same path: doesn’t matter what you do, justice (or at least some form or other of it) is served. Again hence: there’s no right or wrong option here, you still get his loyalty. Unlike say... Tali I half-heartedly did her loyalty mission once and then when on trial for the sake of saving time but also because I didn’t care to tell you the truth,  I chose to show the evidence. She wasn’t loyal after that. (lol)
So... the moral of the story is; kill Sidonis, don’t kill him, makes no difference except how it affects (molds) Shepard [not Garrus] in the game narrative itself.

Modifié par PalAvian, 22 février 2012 - 04:08 .

[Damate]

@Eradyn: I can't remember if paragon Shep actually stands aside or not, though I do seem to recall that Garrus does have an opening at the end, irregardless, yeah. My mind.. it's muddled at the moment.

@NekOoNija: I actually wouldn't have thought you weren't a native speaker before. Don't even worry about it.

I don't think Shep got off too easy: Part of what makes Garrus awesome is that the Garrus/Shep relationship (romantic or otherwise) manages to portray that two people can have different views and still be incredibly close/loyal. From a storytelling mechanic, I also think it's further proof that the whole situation is less about what is 'best' for Garrus and more about exploring your own Shep's morality/choices. Garrus is set up to be quite fluid that way. I know some players think this means he lacks depth/backbone of his own... I personally believe it is simply a good way of allowing the player to build their own in-game reality. Garrus, for me, is a great 'sounding board' in the game. Whatever path you choose he'll usually have something to say about it and more often than not his little comments will give me something to mull over. Whatever route you go with, Garrus, as a character, can find a way to fit into it, which is probably why there's a lot of love for the Turian.

[Damate]

@PalAvian: Oddly enough, I think my response to NekO -- written before seeing your last post - kinda responds to your post as well. *chuckles* Mostly in agreement... it doesn't really make a difference outside of Shepard his/herself. Which, to me, is alright. A good story needs a supporting cast that interplays fluidly with the main character. Just like it needs supporting cast and adversaries who don't. Some people feel that characters who fall into the former category are one-dimensional. I personally feel they are more well rounded by the very nature of their fluidity in the game.
And the fact that there is no right or wrong answer in Garrus' LM further underscores his own statement regarding the crux of the matter: Shades of grey. It jives for me from the perspective of good writing from which most any player can come away feeling satisfied.

[jellobell]

Hey guys, I heard a rumour that the LIs would have "dates" in ME3. Could anyone confirm/deny if this is true?

[PalAvian]

shygravel wrote...

@PalAvian: Oddly enough, I think my response to NekO -- written before seeing your last post - kinda responds to your post as well. *chuckles* Mostly in agreement... it doesn't really make a difference outside of Shepard his/herself. Which, to me, is alright. A good story needs a supporting cast that interplays fluidly with the main character. Just like it needs supporting cast and adversaries who don't. Some people feel that characters who fall into the former category are one-dimensional. I personally feel they are more well rounded by the very nature of their fluidity in the game.
And the fact that there is no right or wrong answer in Garrus' LM further underscores his own statement regarding the crux of the matter: Shades of grey. It jives for me from the perspective of good writing from which most any player can come away feeling satisfied.

I was thinking precisely the same thing as I was reading your response to NekOoNija.

Some say great minds think alike, uh!
Well, except for the shades of grey part. I’m like Garrus; black or white, always been.

[Damate]

@PalAvian: *fistbump!*

@Jellobell: There's a dialogue between Shep/Garrus that definitely has a 'date' feel to it, yes. I don't know about 'dates' plural. And I've only skimmed the other LI convos. But I think ME3 does indeed deviate from the previous games where LI instances only happened aboard the Normandy.

[LadyVakarian]

shygravel wrote...

@PalAvian: *fistbump!*

@Jellobell: There's a dialogue between Shep/Garrus that definitely has a 'date' feel to it, yes. I don't know about 'dates' plural. And I've only skimmed the other LI convos. But I think ME3 does indeed deviate from the previous games where LI instances only happened aboard the Normandy.

 That is all... I am really looking forward to all the romance options, but also the bro relationship you can have with the other characters. I have always loved the playful banter between characters

EDIT: it's not showing the picture for me.. darn

Modifié par LadyVakarian, 22 février 2012 - 06:32 .

[Mims]

There is a 'date' for each [although I can only confirm the squadmate/shipmate ones] romance.

Although some are traditional dates, and others are just hanging out or doing things offship.

[jellobell]

Mims wrote...

There is a 'date' for each [although I can only confirm the squadmate/shipmate ones] romance.

Although some are traditional dates, and others are just hanging out or doing things offship.

Thanks for the confirmation. 

So is Garrus's a "traditional date", or is it just Shep and Garrus hanging out?

[Mims]

Edit: Now the posting system is just messing with me.

It's more of a non-traditional date, as it can also double for a non-romanced friendship scene. Which isn't to say it's not romantic [it is], but it's not say, "Shepard and Garrus go to movies and have dinner."

The location is pretty cool if they keep it. 

Modifié par Mims, 22 février 2012 - 07:44 .

[YvetteAngel]

jellobell wrote...

Oh God, the original topic got E.T. stuck in my head for days. The lyrics are strangely appropriate though ("fill me with your poison" anyone?).

Ha!  Hm, I wonder if Mordin developed an antidote by now? lol

[outmane]

Mims wrote...

Edit: Now the posting system is just messing with me.

It's more of a non-traditional date, as it can also double for a non-romanced friendship scene. Which isn't to say it's not romantic [it is], but it's not say, "Shepard and Garrus go to movies and have dinner."

The location is pretty cool if they keep it. 

Oh oh I know!

Sniper fight in a classy antique shop ? 



Edit: oh my, I got ToPed...

 by Adre-es

Modifié par outmane, 22 février 2012 - 08:11 .