19887 réponses à ce sujet

[PalAvian]

@Rannin: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Homeworlds

[Damate]

Actually, if we're going to compare Krogan society (in terms of what we've seen of male and female roles/segregation) to any kind of earth animal, I'm inclined to go with the societal structures of African elephants. All-female (except for the young/infant males) herds lead by a matriarch. Males of age leave the herd. Younger ones often form 'bachelor' herds, at least temporarily, Old(er) males usually stag it. Interaction occurs between groups: Groups of all females, small groups or single males approaching the herd (and woe be to them if the ladies don't want them there: que videos of angry elephants. not pretty.) etc etc.

Which isn't to say I'm saying Krogans are like earth animals >< (DON'T KILLZ ME WREX! I ♥ you!) Please don't mistake my intent. Just... and animal comparison was made so throwing in my two cents.

That said: I don't think Krogan females are mistreated at all, at least not under Wrex leadership. They maintain their own camp because it makes sense for terms of safety and control (and by this I mean the women controlling the men - who can come to visit, when, who might have a hand in raising a child, etc). And after playing the demo -- yeah, that doesn't strike me as a remotely 'submissive' woman.. she was awesome. In all honesty I think the type of clothes was probably largely influenced by finding the easiest way to differentiate female and male Krogans without having to intricately design a whole new model. And I'm fine with that: The look and the voice was enough for me.

Okay, sorry... back OT:
I don't think we're gonna see Turian females I'd love it (oh man, SO want to meet Garrus' sister. SO. BAD.) but I don't think it'll happen. If it was the case I kinda think there'd be a leak about it already. And BW tends to cut corners when they do need to reveal a female version of a race (i.e. the Krogan). Which I'm fine with all in all, but it leads me to believe female Turians are a no go.

If I'm wrong I shall happily eat my hat!

[SuiteAces]

@palAvian, thanks so much for the link. I can't wait for it!

[outmane]

PalAvian wrote...

outmane wrote...

@ Pal If Wrex dies on Virmire, you meant his cousin Wreav on Tuchanka (and he doesnt like you much ). If you keep him alive, you Wrex went back to his people on Tuchanka and is now their leader (its a superb character arc from his mercenary I-dont-give-a-damn state in ME1)

Aaahhh... now I get it. In the PS3 version Wrex is pretty much six feet under. Which makes me wonder how do they bring him back for ME3...

Youll get Wreav in that case. and Wreav is prett less open minded then Wrex, that might be why you get that patriarcal vibe from him. Wrex makes Krogans appear more like lions. The males are cool and all but the females are organized, they live together and they take care of themselves and the cubs.

Edit:  What Shygravel said pretty much sums it up. I didnt read before posting, sorry 

Modifié par outmane, 25 février 2012 - 02:53 .

[Damate]

@Outmane: No need for apologies! That kind of thing happens to me all the time. (I post and then see someone else posted pretty much the same thing a bit ahead of me) It just means 'great minds think alike' --- that and you're awesome. ^^ ♥

[PalAvian]

outmane wrote...

Youll get Wreav in that case. and Wreav is prett less open minded then Wrex, that might be why you get that patriarcal vibe from him. Wrex makes Krogans appear more like lions. The males are cool and all but the females are organized, they live together and they take care of themselves and the cubs.

Edit:  What Shygravel said pretty much sums it up. I didnt read before posting, sorry 

Yup, pretty much. Now you understand where I’m coming from. But independently of Wrex/Wreav styles in leadership, the females equality status shouldn’t depend on the level of open mindness of the male leader. Mind you I do think that the fact that they cover themselves and segregate themselves is mainly down to BW laziness in designing them and the other races females that are missing as well. Come to think of it I haven’t seen female Salarians either.

[outmane]

@Shy Youre so kind !

ME's alien social organization : I dont think female status *should* depend on the males being in a happy mood that day... That said, I enjoy that all theu ME species have very diffrent models of social organization that fits their species concept. It would be a bland story if everyone was perfect, you know what I mean ?

f you want to learn more about the salarian, theres an Alliance News article about it (the link should be in the General discussion forum. I think the last article they posted is about Quarians and the one before is Salarians)

I have to say, I always had the feeling Turians had the most equalitarian organization, based mostly on merit and that everyone had to do military service, no matter the gender. Can someone conform that ? (my mind can play tricks also)

[PalAvian]

Meh, I think since it’s a fantasy world might as well include some perfection. For true crap we have planet monkey world otherwise known as earth and a quick look at the news.

I believe you’re quite right about Turian society. And that’s why I like them or should I say; we like them

Modifié par PalAvian, 25 février 2012 - 03:35 .

[SuiteAces]

In response to PalAvian, THIS, a zillion times this! I think I need to start referring to earth as planet monkey world.

[Damate]

Yep, all turians begin military schooling/service (which encompasses a multitude of civil service functions in their society, so it's not just what we consider 'military') at age 15. It's how they gain full citizenship as well. And it's a meritocracy -- though I'm sure they have to deal with corruption like any other society. Females supposedly have the same training/requirements as men... though it's bound to look skewed since we never see females in game :/ Boo!

[Damate]

And I prefer my societies to be imperfect even in fantasy/sci-fi. Heck, I think the Asari are a good example there -- I'd probably like them more as a whole (don't get me wrong, I love certain Asari NPCs and Samara) if they didn't come off as the 'perfect mono*cough*bi*cough*sexual' race. Perfection, to me, is dull and too hard to relate to.

[jellobell]

I also thought that it would be interesting to have female Turians turn out to be larger than males.

I've been having a bit of trouble trying to classify Turians though. I'm pretty sure they're warm-blooded, but are they mammals? They don't seem to have bellybuttons so they can't be placentals. Maybe the females have some kind of pouch and reproduce like Marsupials (baby crawls from birth canal to pouch), however the pouch would need to be well protected from Palaven's radiation as the child would be especially vulnerable at that point, even moreso than a newborn.

Or (theory #2) maybe they're more like Monotremes, like Platypuses, mammals who lay eggs. The egg would perhaps have some kind of anti-radiation coating, and the mother would have the added freedom of being able to move around more freely than if they were actually pregnant, which could perhaps explain the gender equality present in a more militaristic society. Perhaps whole clutches of Turians are brought up together, which would help establish the values of loyalty to the group and social solidarity at a young age. Monotremes (being mammals) still have to suckle their young, so not only would you have egg-laying female Turians, you'd have egg-laying female Turians with breasts!

[Eradyn]

Pretty sure a dev said they give live birth (of course, everything is subject to change when it's just one dev's opinion). I kind of hope for something different. Not fond of the idea of female turians with breasts.

Edited for atrocious phone auto-corrects

Modifié par Eradyn, 25 février 2012 - 05:04 .

[PalAvian]

shygravel wrote...

And I prefer my societies to be imperfect even in fantasy/sci-fi. Heck, I think the Asari are a good example there -- I'd probably like them more as a whole (don't get me wrong, I love certain Asari NPCs and Samara) if they didn't come off as the 'perfect mono*cough*bi*cough*sexual' race. Perfection, to me, is dull and too hard to relate to.

Perfection, by its very definition can’t be dull. If it is dull, then it isn’t perfect at all

The asari aren’t perfect either, despite what *cough* impressionable *cough* males might think of them, Illium is run by them and is swimming in corruption.

And I love Samara too (I wanted her for my male Shep).

[PalAvian]

@jellobell: I would think that if they’re an avian (or avian-like) based species then they can’t be mammals. But we’re talking about fantasy aliens, so you never know...
Another thing to remember is that if we consider earth’s natural history, mammals are pretty much a minority. So it’d be reasonable to assume that there could be a correlation in the evolution of life in other planets as mostly non-mammalian.

I think eggs would be the way to go with turians, specially because of the high radiation thing. The eggs can be protected by an extra thick shell, for example.

[Damate]

According to the ME wiki, which sites a Twitter from Patrick Weekes as reference, turians are indeed viviparous. The broad definition being 'gives birth to live young'. But there are actually a few subcategories of vivipary and includes certain reptiles and amphibians.And not all mammary glands are created equal *chuckles* So, yeah... that doesn't mean turian females have to have breasts like human females.

@PalAvian: Ah-ha! But can we as human even truly agree upon a set definition and perception of perfection? It's a fairly subjective term really. One persons idea of 'perfection' may not jive with anothers.

And, sorry, I didn't mean to say that Asari are perfect (since, as I said above, I think it's hard to even quantify perfection in the first place) but they do give off that 'vibe' in the game. Not in terms of society but in how Asari in general are presented: Just 'alien' enough to be unique (blue skin, natural biotic powers) but very human seeming as well so its far easier to relate to them. A lot of people I know who don't "get" the whole Garrus LI thing claim he's far too alien to be attractive... but don't bat an eyelash at the idea Asari are sexually appealing. So, to me, the Asari were created with a mien that many see as 'perfection' but, to me, is bland outside of certain individuals who portray personality traits/interesting stories that I like.

[YvetteAngel]

Yanarada's concepts are very cool. (DevianArt)

Her female turians are beautiful.

Modifié par YvetteAngel, 25 février 2012 - 04:54 .

[jellobell]

shygravel wrote...

And, sorry, I didn't mean to say that Asari are perfect (since, as I said above, I think it's hard to even quantify perfection in the first place) but they do give off that 'vibe' in the game. Not in terms of society but in how Asari in general are presented: Just 'alien' enough to be unique (blue skin, natural biotic powers) but very human seeming as well so its far easier to relate to them. A lot of people I know who don't "get" the whole Garrus LI thing claim he's far too alien to be attractive... but don't bat an eyelash at the idea Asari are sexually appealing. So, to me, the Asari were created with a mien that many see as 'perfection' but, to me, is bland outside of certain individuals who portray personality traits/interesting stories that I like.

Yeah. The impression I get from the first Mass Effect artbook is that the Asari were created to be sexy bisexual space-elves. <_<

I would've vastly preferred it if they were actually androgynous, or shifted between genders like the Gethenians from Ursula K. Le Guin's "The Left Hand of Darkness". It would have made them a much more interesting species. They got better in ME2, but they're still mostly fanservice, which is unfortunate.

[outmane]

Im pretty much in the perfert-would-be-boring camp (even if PalAvian made a good case on the fact it shouldnt be)

If we wanna go crazy with out turian ideas... what about a ventral pocket to keep the youngs until they develop enough like possums and kangoroos ?

[PalAvian]

shygravel wrote...

@PalAvian: Ah-ha! But can we as human even truly agree upon a set definition and perception of perfection? It's a fairly subjective term really. One persons idea of 'perfection' may not jive with anothers.

And, sorry, I didn't mean to say that Asari are perfect (since, as I said above, I think it's hard to even quantify perfection in the first place) but they do give off that 'vibe' in the game. Not in terms of society but in how Asari in general are presented: Just 'alien' enough to be unique (blue skin, natural biotic powers) but very human seeming as well so its far easier to relate to them. A lot of people I know who don't "get" the whole Garrus LI thing claim he's far too alien to be attractive... but don't bat an eyelash at the idea Asari are sexually appealing. So, to me, the Asari were created with a mien that many see as 'perfection' but, to me, is bland outside of certain individuals who portray personality traits/interesting stories that I like.

I take your point. But I’m from the school of thought that Perfection, like Truth (with capital P and T that is), isn’t subjective, it’s absolutist. But a personal definition of perfect and its application thereof is of course permissible and subjective. For example I can say that to me, Garrus is perfect, but to many others he certainly isn’t.

[PalAvian]

@YvetteAngel: Drawings #2 & #3 are particularly HOT! <3

[SuiteAces]

@yvette i love those female turians. They are really pretty. I like what the artist did with them.

@outmane maybe their cowl thing serves as a pouch for their young. Or at least that could be a potetial use for that if they are marsupial like.

The only reason why I wouldn't like them to be totally avian like is that avians tend to feed their young by regurgitation and I just cannot imagine Garrus's mom feeding Garrus that way without cringing a little. I think a combination of sorts would be cool.

BTW thanks for joining my group guys. I really appreciate it. I hope this is an idea that everyone likes. I just thought it would be a cool way for us to keep track of our stuff with MP. It was fun to make the group so I hope you folks like it :-D

[YvetteAngel]

PalAvian wrote...

@YvetteAngel: Drawings #2 & #3 are particularly HOT! <3

I know! <3 So awesome.  

[Damate]

@Jellobell: I'm right with you: I'd have loved it if they were presented as androgynous or the like. Frankly it would have allowed me to take the idea behind the species far more seriously.

@PalAvian: And I, also, take your point. *grins* If taken from an absolutist standpoint then, yes, Perfection (capital P) would not be dull. I was very much viewing it from a subjective view. Isn't it nice to have civilized discussions of interesting ideas? Wait... someone make sure this is still the BSN... XD

@Outmane: I think someone else mentioned the idea a marsupial approach to turians. It'd be interesting, definitely. *laughs* Though now, yes, I'm imagining female turians hoping everywhere.

[CrazyIvan93]

[looks at steaming hot pictures of Turian females]...... ME3 YOU BETTER HAVE THEM IN THE GAME!!!!