19887 réponses à ce sujet

[outmane]

humm i dont see how killing Sidonis = being Saren

I guess it depends on the overview you have. If you feel like Garrus is on a downward spiral then yes, he needs someone to stop him. If you dont feel like Garrus 'lost' then he needs a friend who trusts him.

I guess it also depends if you feel its Shepard's role to mold Garrus. To me he's always been a renegade (and a much better one the you can achieve with most renegade Sheps). My Shep tried to show him her way, the paragon way in ME1. He ended up in Omega. In ME2 she decided to trust him, trust that he knows what is best for him. So he can be his own man, by her side.

IMO, lhe logic is the same for both options if youre a paragon : beeing a good friend desnt mean you have to agreee all the time. So either you use that logic to justify that you stop Garrus cause thats what a good friend would do if he sees his friend doing something wrong or you dont stop him cause you trust Garrus, you accept the fact that youre not always right and that ppl can do things a diffrent way then you (Shepard is really bad at that usually <_<) and thats also being a good friend.

Anyway its my favorite LM. Theres so many diffrent ways to roleplay it.

Modifié par outmane, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:27 .

[Lady Olivia]

outmane wrote...

 @LadyOlivia

Before we start feeling guilty, i say were allowed to ask who wrote that. Like whats his point of view.

Is it the SB himself or did the information come from some other organisation (C-Sec,military, Citadel politic, etc.) It probably doesnt come from someone who has Garrus personal best interest at heart, but simply sees him from a 'utility' point of view. Of course, without Shepard Garrus could have became a great C-Sec agent or a Spectre even. And that would have paid off a lot for one of those organisations.

But if the question was asked to Garrus i dont think he would feel that way. That being in Shepard's shadow keeps him from 'realizing his full potential'. Yes, hes less useful from an outsider eye seeking a good agent. Cause hes already taken. Of course he could do awsome if he ran solo. But instead hes got a friend/lover at his side. Someone who cares about him and he can trust. Thats something the SB didnt bother to put in his dossier, but to me it counts for alot.

Maybe he cant realize his full potential without leaving everything behind and living only for his job. And maybe that kind of 'full potential' is mostly bullsh*t. Just ask Shepard. She died and they revived her so she could save everyone again. She has no life of her own anymore but she certainly achieved full potential.

That's an attractive perspective. I'd like to think so, but I can't. Shadow Broker's summaries may be biased towards his own needs, but I thought most of them were pretty level-headed: a good trait and a bad trait for each character. Certainly these evaluations are more objective than our own (or Sheprad's). So yeah, I guess I believe they're true.

What's kind of strange is that none of the other characters has a "bad" trait that's related in such a personal manner to Shepard. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's a message from the devs: Shepard mentored Garrus, then saved his ass from the mess he made by failing as a team leader; Shepard also [ab]used every opportunity to shape him after her own moral. This has consequences: too much dependence, can't develop to his full potential - until he becomes a commander himself.

If there's a chance to let him go and be independent in ME3, what will you do?

I have no idea what I'd do, but I have the idea that letting him go would be the right thing to do.

[Turian-Garrus92]

outmane wrote...

humm i dont see how killing Sidonis = being Saren

I guess it depends on the overview you have. If you feel like Garrus is on a downward spiral then yes, he needs someone to stop him. If you dont feel like Garrus 'lost' then he needs a friend who trusts him.

I guess it also depends if you feel its Shepard's role to mold Garrus. To me he's always been a renegade (and a much better one the you can achieve with most renegade Sheps). My Shep tried to show him her way, the paragon way in ME1. He ended up in Omega. In ME2 she decided to trust him, trust that he knows what is best for him. So he can be his own man, by her side.

IMO, lhe logic is the same for both options if youre a paragon : beeing a good friend desnt mean you have to agreee all the time. So either you use that logic to justify that you stop Garrus cause thats what a good friend would do if he sees his friend doing something wrong or you dont stop him cause you trust Garrus, you accept the fact that youre not always right and that ppl can do things a diffrent way then you (Shepard is really bad at that usually <_<) and thats also being a good friend.

Anyway its my favorite LM. Theres so many diffrent ways to roleplay it.

You definately have made a fair point...

I think with mass effect it is really about each independant person making up there own side story's in there head about how they get to that postion in the game, whch does make it individual for everyone...

Am not saying that he would be exactly like Garrus would become Saren (but boy that would be a plot twister lol) but likeyou said lke i thought he might lose himself and i had to help but with oyurs you felt like he was fine and knew how to make his own mind up....

So yeah it definately on what the mind set is for different people...

[Turian-Garrus92]

And some of my spelling and grammer was terrible in that message...
LOL

[k8ee]

My two cents... I actually really liked the notes about "Garrus keeping Shepard comfortable." and Garrus "not reaching his full potential under Shepard's command." There is something kind of romantic and tragic about it all. I think getting his team killed and having Shepard coax him out of his desire for vengeance has him questioning his own decisions. Lets face it justice and vengeance are different things, but when we run into Garrus he's started to blur the lines.

It's kind of a moral dilemma... because it would be better if he was leading on his own, but we all want Garrus watching our backs.

[outmane]

Lady Olivia wrote...
That's an attractive perspective. I'd like to think so, but I can't. Shadow Broker's summaries may be biased towards his own needs, but I thought most of them were pretty level-headed: a good trait and a bad trait for each character. Certainly these evaluations are more objective than our own (or Sheprad's). So yeah, I guess I believe they're true.

I believe what is written there is true but it feel its more about Garrus 'professional potential' then 'personal potential'.

What's kind of strange is that none of the other characters has a "bad" trait that's related in such a personal manner to Shepard. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's a message from the devs: Shepard mentored Garrus, then saved his ass from the mess he made by failing as a team leader; Shepard also [ab]used every opportunity to shape him after her own moral. This has consequences: too much dependence, can't develop to his full potential - until he becomes a commander himself.

Im pretty much with you on the fact that Shep has many  of opportunities to shape Garrus (In his LM, I personaly do not force him into the paragon way because it feels like molding him ) What im questionning is if the 'lost of potential' is a bad thing when i see what Shepard did go through to achieve her potential (being resurrected and sent to fight again). A real life example would be someone passing on a promotion to keep time for his/her family. It is a waste of potential. But not necessarily all bad (one could say its well wasted potential).

If there's a chance to let him go and be independent in ME3, what will you do?
I have no idea what I'd do, but I have the idea that letting him go would be the right thing to do.

The last thing i would do is choose for him. Making him leave to realize his potential would be playing 'GodShepard' again. He feels like his potential is wasted and he needs to go his own way? Then yes. I guess my Shep would cry but she would understand. If he doesnt want to become the 'ultimate Garrus' at the cost of his happiness then she would understand also. Staying with Shep doesn't need to be the 'good answer'. There needs to be a drawback. Maybe he would never become as self-confidant and accomplished as if he had left. I just think deciding for him would always be the wrong thing to do . We want him to become more independant after all...

Modifié par outmane, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:38 .

[Lady Olivia]

k8ee wrote...

My two cents... I actually really liked the notes about "Garrus keeping Shepard comfortable." and Garrus "not reaching his full potential under Shepard's command." There is something kind of romantic and tragic about it all. I think getting his team killed and having Shepard coax him out of his desire for vengeance has him questioning his own decisions. Lets face it justice and vengeance are different things, but when we run into Garrus he's started to blur the lines.

It's kind of a moral dilemma... because it would be better if he was leading on his own, but we all want Garrus watching our backs.

Yes. That's exactly what I wanted to say, only more word-efficient. 

[Lady Olivia]

outmane wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...
That's an attractive perspective. I'd like to think so, but I can't. Shadow Broker's summaries may be biased towards his own needs, but I thought most of them were pretty level-headed: a good trait and a bad trait for each character. Certainly these evaluations are more objective than our own (or Sheprad's). So yeah, I guess I believe they're true.

I believe what is written there is true but it feel its more about Garrus 'professional potential' then 'personal potential'.

Right. When you put it like that, I agree.

The last thing i would do is choose for him.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean, I debated with myself whether to speak about that in the previous post, but decided not to because it's a whole new dilemma. My fear is, the game might very well put us in that position. Garrus may put us into that position. I can't exactly doubt your judgment after getting my whole team killed. - remember that? (heartbreak) What if he wants us to decide for him. As in, I trust you more than I trust myself. Spirits, that would be awful on so many levels.

[k8ee]

It would be even worse if the results of that decision got him killed.

[outmane]

Lady Olivia wrote...
Yes, I know exactly what you mean, I debated with myself whether to speak about that in the previous post, but decided not to because it's a whole new dilemma. My fear is, the game might very well put us in that position. Garrus may put us into that position. I can't exactly doubt your judgment after getting my whole team killed. - remember that? (heartbreak) What if he wants us to decide for him. As in, I trust you more than I trust myself. Spirits, that would be awful on so many levels.

I've got similar fears.

The way Garrus puts himself in Shep's hands always frightened me a little (like the event you quoted). He's fine with my Sheps (one romance and one best friend) but thinking that he could be fallowing with the same admiration a Shepard who doesnt care for him or who would want to use him ( its clear that Garrus would accept a suicide mission if Shep told him it was the best way)...

ME3 might be the perfect place for the writers to show how they really want Garrus to be. What i mean is that since ME2 was the middle game and they needed Garrus to stick with any type of Shepard (even one who didnt care for him in ME1) they had to make all characters fit the cironstances. (Like Jack risking her life for a Shepard who treats her like dirt... it doesnt all make sense). I really really hope he wont just ask Shepard to choose for him but instead will react to what their relation is after those 3 games.

Toward the end of ME3 there wont be any squaddy status to preserve (no more game mechanics in the way). That would be a good time to have Garrus stand against Shepard if hes doing something he believes to be wrong or treating him unfairly. At the end, If theres no friendship to be protected or if the morals clash too much then i really hope Garrus will say hes thankful for the chances he had but hes going his own way (and becomes totally awsome on his own ).

It would be stronger character development then  'I told you twice to be a paragon/renegade now act like it'

[darthnick427]

Garrus for Spectre in ME3 just sayin

[k8ee]

^ second.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

outmane wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...
Yes, I know exactly what you mean, I debated with myself whether to speak about that in the previous post, but decided not to because it's a whole new dilemma. My fear is, the game might very well put us in that position. Garrus may put us into that position. I can't exactly doubt your judgment after getting my whole team killed. - remember that? (heartbreak) What if he wants us to decide for him. As in, I trust you more than I trust myself. Spirits, that would be awful on so many levels.

I've got similar fears.

The way Garrus puts himself in Shep's hands always frightened me a little (like the event you quoted). He's fine with my Sheps (one romance and one best friend) but thinking that he could be fallowing with the same admiration a Shepard who doesnt care for him or who would want to use him ( its clear that Garrus would accept a suicide mission if Shep told him it was the best way)...

ME3 might be the perfect place for the writers to show how they really want Garrus to be. What i mean is that since ME2 was the middle game and they needed Garrus to stick with any type of Shepard (even one who didnt care for him in ME1) they had to make all characters fit the cironstances. (Like Jack risking her life for a Shepard who treats her like dirt... it doesnt all make sense). I really really hope he wont just ask Shepard to choose for him but instead will react to what their relation is after those 3 games.

Toward the end of ME3 there wont be any squaddy status to preserve (no more game mechanics in the way). That would be a good time to have Garrus stand against Shepard if hes doing something he believes to be wrong or treating him unfairly. At the end, If theres no friendship to be protected or if the morals clash too much then i really hope Garrus will say hes thankful for the chances he had but hes going his own way (and becomes totally awsome on his own ).

It would be stronger character development then  'I told you twice to be a paragon/renegade now act like it'

This may sound bad, and in a way it kind of is, but I always thought of Garrus as Anomen 2.0.  After two games telling Garrus what to do in difficult ethical situations, I fully expect Garrus to experience a crisis of faith and question where he's allowed Shepard to lead him.

[outmane]

Spectre Garrus in ME3 of course. Did we forget to mention it the last few pages?

Oh and were lacking pictures!



By Madspike

Modifié par outmane, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:55 .

[Takotna]

For Garrus. Like some others have mentioned, I would LOVE it if in ME3 Garrus' joining the team was him rescuing you. Save me, my beloved Turian rebel!

On a side-note I hape they have a lil more conversations avaliable for all your team members, some in ME2 just seemed a bit too sparce for my tastes =P

[k8ee]

Looking at that picture reminds me that someone mentioned Garrus's overhaul had him shaped a little more like a human... like losing those crazy hips. Thoughts?

[Good Chaos7]

k8ee wrote...

Looking at that picture reminds me that someone mentioned Garrus's overhaul had him shaped a little more like a human... like losing those crazy hips. Thoughts?

Well they didn't count on Garrus having so many requests to be a LI option & Maybe since there's some requests for a better Romance Scene. (myself included, :kissing:"shirtless Garrus Wanted" I miss the ME 1 look) Maybe they're working on it!

[k8ee]

Yeah, that's what I was wondering... I mean, I'm all for naked turian hotness, I'm just wondering how people felt about him being humanized a little more.

[Obsydian]

i really don't want him to be humanized.... i love the hips....

[Leonia]

Obsydian wrote...

i really don't want him to be humanized.... i love the hips....

This.

Awhile ago (maybe in this thread, can't remember) someone posted a fanart of a "human" Garrus and it just creeps me out. I don't want him to be human or to change his personality or morality system to suit Shepard better. He's a renegade turian for life.

[Obsydian]

leonia42 wrote...

Obsydian wrote...

i really don't want him to be humanized.... i love the hips....

This.

Awhile ago (maybe in this thread, can't remember) someone posted a fanart of a "human" Garrus and it just creeps me out. I don't want him to be human or to change his personality or morality system to suit Shepard better. He's a renegade turian for life.

did you mean the one at the bottom here?    see, now i do like that picture. i think that it could be what a human Garrus would look like. 
That said... i agree. i don't want Garrus to be human. At all. He's amazing how he is...  turians are a fantastic race and there's no reason to ever change them.  
Even as alien as they are... thats half of why i love them. if i wanted a human, i'd find a human.  i want a turian dammit.  

[k8ee]

makalathbonagin wrote...

have you seen new garrus fanarts ... intense stuff o0
check out dart, not gonna post it here obviously

what new fanart? a point in the right direction?

Edit:

Oh and the picture of Garrus as a human... not bothered by that. But the half and half ones... errr...

Modifié par k8ee, 07 juillet 2011 - 04:33 .

[CroGamer002]

Obsydian wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Obsydian wrote...

i really don't want him to be humanized.... i love the hips....

This.

Awhile ago (maybe in this thread, can't remember) someone posted a fanart of a "human" Garrus and it just creeps me out. I don't want him to be human or to change his personality or morality system to suit Shepard better. He's a renegade turian for life.

did you mean the one at the bottom here?    see, now i do like that picture. i think that it could be what a human Garrus would look like. 
That said... i agree. i don't want Garrus to be human. At all. He's amazing how he is...  turians are a fantastic race and there's no reason to ever change them.  
Even as alien as they are... thats half of why i love them. if i wanted a human, i'd find a human.  i want a turian dammit.  

THAT'S HUMANOID GARRUS?!

I though that was Shepard or some other human that looks like Garrus.

[Nyreen]

k8ee wrote...

Looking at that picture reminds me that someone mentioned Garrus's overhaul had him shaped a little more like a human... like losing those crazy hips. Thoughts?

I prefer it. Turian waists are a little too feminine for my tastes. I approve and prefer the new look.

Modifié par Celestina, 07 juillet 2011 - 05:14 .