19887 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Bluumberry wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

--Kaidan even outranks Shep. 

Erm I don't know much about military ranks but I don't think major is higher than commander? He still defers to her as well.

According to the codex entry in ME1 on Alliance military ranks, Major/Captain outranks Commander.  He still does defer to Shep, though.  But then again, turian generals were saluting Garrus.  Rank means less than badassery by ME3.

[Bluumberry]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

--Kaidan even outranks Shep. 

Erm I don't know much about military ranks but I don't think major is higher than commander? He still defers to her as well.

According to the codex entry in ME1 on Alliance military ranks, Major/Captain outranks Commander.  He still does defer to Shep, though.  But then again, turian generals were saluting Garrus.  Rank means less than badassery by ME3.

And here I thought Ashley got the higher rank out of the two.

I was already feeling iffy about everyone else getting promotions during the course of the game while Shepard gets squat, and now her underlings are not only given Spectre status to throw humanity a bone, but Kaidan freaking outranks her?

Not cool.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Bluumberry wrote...
I was already feeling iffy about everyone else getting promotions during the course of the game while Shepard gets squat, and now her underlings are not only given Spectre status to throw humanity a bone, but Kaidan freaking outranks her?

Not cool.

Meh.  He could be an Admiral and Commander Freaking Shepard, hero of the Citadel, savior of the galaxy, scourge of the Reapers, horrible dancer, romancer of sexy turians, and Crystal Dragon Space Jesus Badass Extraordinaire would still make him cower with a glance.

[OurFaz]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

outmane wrote...
We know he's suspicious and has all right to be, but to me it goes to the point that its hard for Shep to trust him back. He really doesnt get the chance to have is presence felt on the Normandy like Garrus does. Up until the end, he's the little boy Shep has to hold by the end and bring around with her. But Im certain thats not what he was intended to be (well I definitly hope it wasnt).

I think the VS in general suffers from this.  It's a combination of being the "normal person" and of IMO overemphasis on reenacting Horizon for the first half of ME3. 

I know Ash and Kaidan got promoted between games--Kaidan even outranks Shep.  But Shep will always be better: the better Spectre, soldier, and commanding officer. 
Having the VS be so petulant about Cerberus just highlights that inadequacy. 

See, I kind of felt like Kaidan being made a Spectre came as a bit of a shock to me. I guess I'd had pretty much little to no involvement with him up to that point: no romance (and to be fair, barely any conversations at all, all of which I shut down), told him to bog off on Horizon, then all of a sudden there he is making puppy dog eyes at me and suddenly being given Spectre status. I just didn't get it. Liara comments that he's become very capable but I guess that was just totally off my radar. I feel like he's just been following me around this whole time!

I really ought to do a playthrough with Ashley surviving, I don't know how she comes across and I'd like too. Or I might just hit up Youtube.

[outmane]

Bluumberry wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

--Kaidan even outranks Shep. 

Erm I don't know much about military ranks but I don't think major is higher than commander? He still defers to her as well.

According to the codex entry in ME1 on Alliance military ranks, Major/Captain outranks Commander.  He still does defer to Shep, though.  But then again, turian generals were saluting Garrus.  Rank means less than badassery by ME3.

And here I thought Ashley got the higher rank out of the two.

I was already feeling iffy about everyone else getting promotions during the course of the game while Shepard gets squat, and now her underlings are not only given Spectre status to throw humanity a bone, but Kaidan freaking outranks her?

Not cool.

I personaly like it very much the way it is. Because ME has always take the route of 'badass matters more then titles'. Shep clearly doesnt need a title to get things done her way by the time ME3 arrives. Those titles are for people who couldnt get things done otherwise... like the VS it seems. 

[Deviant Ingredient]

Mm, well to respond to the question about how you chose Garrus as the LI, he was my first choice. I loved him in the part of ME I got to play and oddly always found Turians attractive. I thought about Thane for a moment but the whole dying thing sorta turned my Shep off (terrible I know) but she needs more stability. Also he has a son that is grown... I ignored Jacob all together the moment I tried to have a normal conversation and my Shep threw herself at him like a drunk hooker.

Actually I think she behaved like a drunk hooker when opening up the option to Garrus. God I had to look away from the screen a bit mortified, I had always pictured her with a bit more tact than that.

For the other post that asked for favorite line, I have many but the one I really like is more a situation. In the Adart-Yahshi quest when it's dark and you hear a bottle move and Shep jumps a little saying she heard something and Garrus sorta coughing and admitting that was him. Makes me giggle every time. xD

[Karrie788]

Ha, Shep doesn't need a promotion. It'd be weird not to refer to her as "Commander Shepard".
That's her thing.

[Bluumberry]

outmane wrote...

I personaly like it very much the way it is. Because ME has always take the route of 'badass matters more then titles'. Shep clearly doesnt need a title to get things done her way by the time ME3 arrives. Those titles are for people who couldnt get things done otherwise... like the VS it seems. 

I half agree, and I see the reasoning. It doesn't stop me from feeling iffy about it though!

[Bad Cupcake]

Deviant Ingredient wrote...

Mm, well to respond to the question about how you chose Garrus as the LI, he was my first choice. I loved him in the part of ME I got to play and oddly always found Turians attractive. I thought about Thane for a moment but the whole dying thing sorta turned my Shep off (terrible I know) but she needs more stability. Also he has a son that is grown... I ignored Jacob all together the moment I tried to have a normal conversation and my Shep threw herself at him like a drunk hooker.

Actually I think she behaved like a drunk hooker when opening up the option to Garrus. God I had to look away from the screen a bit mortified, I had always pictured her with a bit more tact than that.

For the other post that asked for favorite line, I have many but the one I really like is more a situation. In the Adart-Yahshi quest when it's dark and you hear a bottle move and Shep jumps a little saying she heard something and Garrus sorta coughing and admitting that was him. Makes me giggle every time. xD

I think it's an age thing, too... I'm turning 40 at the end of next week, so a guy having a grown kid is no big deal for me. 

But I agree with you on the complete and total awkwardness of their initial flirting. Sometimes Shep acts a little like a screwball when trying to get some action. 

[Karrie788]

Deviant Ingredient wrote...

Mm, well to respond to the question about how you chose Garrus as the LI, he was my first choice. I loved him in the part of ME I got to play and oddly always found Turians attractive. I thought about Thane for a moment but the whole dying thing sorta turned my Shep off (terrible I know) but she needs more stability. Also he has a son that is grown... I ignored Jacob all together the moment I tried to have a normal conversation and my Shep threw herself at him like a drunk hooker.

Actually I think she behaved like a drunk hooker when opening up the option to Garrus. God I had to look away from the screen a bit mortified, I had always pictured her with a bit more tact than that.

For the other post that asked for favorite line, I have many but the one I really like is more a situation. In the Adart-Yahshi quest when it's dark and you hear a bottle move and Shep jumps a little saying she heard something and Garrus sorta coughing and admitting that was him. Makes me giggle every time. xD

In my playthrough she was drunk. :3

[Bad Cupcake]

Karrie788 wrote...

In my playthrough she was drunk. :3

Karrie!! She was drunk in my playthrough, too!! Thank the spirits for Kasumi and the open bar!!

[outmane]

Bad Cupcake wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

In my playthrough she was drunk. :3

Karrie!! She was drunk in my playthrough, too!! Thank the spirits for Kasumi and the open bar!!

You can also get the drunkness from sharing drinks with Chakwas. And you even get to funny walk back to the main battery !

[Bad Cupcake]

Yeah, but I cracked the bottle with Chakwas WAY early in the game, haha!

[Karrie788]

Bad Cupcake wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

In my playthrough she was drunk. :3

Karrie!! She was drunk in my playthrough, too!! Thank the spirits for Kasumi and the open bar!!

YES!!  I thought "There's no way in hell my Shepard would just go to Garrus and propose sex just like that. She needs alcohol."
What's even more hilarious is picturing her reaction the next morning "What the hell just happened? Did I just ask Garrus to...? wait... and he said yes??"

Modifié par Karrie788, 25 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Bad Cupcake]

Karrie788 wrote...

Bad Cupcake wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

In my playthrough she was drunk. :3

Karrie!! She was drunk in my playthrough, too!! Thank the spirits for Kasumi and the open bar!!

YES!!  I thought "There's no way in hell my Shepard would just go to Garrus and propose sex just like that. She needs alcohol."
What's even more hilarious is picturing her reaction the next morning "What the hell just happened? Did I just ask Garrus to...? wait... and he said yes??"

Holy crap... I seriously thought my Shep was becoming an alcoholic in ME2... anytime things went awry, she was at that bar.

[RilantheFirebug]

outmane wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

RilantheFirebug wrote...
Kaiden is Carth 2.0

Carth: I love you but I don't trust you!
Kaidan: I love you but I don't trust you!

I'd actually disagree.  Carth is suspicious by nature, Kaidan suspicious by a combination of legitimate concerns over Cerberus and BioWare's attempt to add TEH DRAMAZ to an otherwise reasonable and level-headed character <_<  It made Kaidan far more sympathetic to me, at least.

Age was also a factor.  I was 16 when I played KOTOR.  Romancing a guy in his late thirties?  EWWWWW.  

I have to agree with you there. Kaidan could have been suspicious AND awsome. Its nice to play with a character who puts that much importance to integrity. But why they made him reenact Horizin during the first half of ME3 is beyond me. We know he's suspicious and has all right to be, but to me it goes to the point that its hard for Shep to trust him back. He really doesnt get the chance to have is presence felt on the Normandy like Garrus does. Up until the end, he's the little boy Shep has to hold by the end and bring around with her. But Im certain thats not what he was intended to be (well I definitly hope it wasnt).

Its like there isnt anything to Shep and Kaidan but their love story. I dont know if that makes sense to nayone else. They jsut feel forever pidgeonholed in this stage of 'I just realized I loved you' .

I kinda think that story deserved better.

I thought Kaidan (gah, now I need to go back and correct my other post ) in ME1 was great. I had no problem romancing him in ME1, I went for it gladly. He was nice, down to earth, had values, etc etc.  To me, he always seemed a bit.... hesitant which I think was partly regulations but also partly that she was an awe inspiring character even then. I don't want to call it hero worshipping because I don't think it was that extreme and when put next to Liara it seems nonexistant. However, the biggest thing about Horizon that stuck out to me was that the VS didn't really know Shepard at all.

To continue using Kaidan as an example, Shepard knows a lot about him. They talk about brain camp, the girl he loved, being a biotic, that he is from Vancouver, etc. But he knows next to nothing about her. Yes, that can be filled with head canon, yes I assume they spent time talking "off camera" about her life, but still I always got the impression that he doesn't or at least didn't know much about her in ME1. So when Horizon came about and Kaidan says something to the effect of "you betrayed everything we stood for" and "you've changed". First, Shepard was dead for two years--that doesn't exactly leave much time to mentally/emotionally change as a person. As we can clearly see thru ME2 it isn't Shepard who changed, its everything else and everyone else. Secondly, even as a paragon or renegade, Shepard always stood for the same thing; to protect people and stop the Repears.

To me, it is completely unreasonable to not let someone you claim to love explain themselves. Yeah, you might pissed as hell but I think the feeling of seeing them alive would override that, at least for the time being. She could answer questions later, he could yell and scream and do a quick version of the 5 stages of giref later. Yes, you got to respond and yes, it was limited in the game, but really Kaidan didn't want to listen. Everything Shepard said seemed to go in one ear and right out the other with him giving no merit to anything she was saying. I totally understand the suspicion about Cerberus, it makes 100% complete sense and he isn't the only former squad member to have beef about Cerberus. He is, however, the only one not willing to listen and he's supposed to be the levelheaded one, he is supposed to be the one who trusts the Shepard the most. Afterall, he says he's in love with her.

I think the problem is that he is so wrapped up in her image, of what everyone else sees her as that he can't/won't imagine Shepard working with Cerberus. Whether because he thinks she's better than that or she wouldn't compromise her morals, or whatever -- he can't reconcile his image/idea of Shepard and the actual Shepard working with (not for) Cerberus. If he doesn't think she would ever do that, did he ever really know her?

Also, in regards to Carth. (spoilers ahoy for anyone who hasn't played KOTOR) As whiny as he was, he also had reason to be suspicious about Revan and Bastilla. Carth is a Republic war hero, a solider through and through, and his commanding officer betrayed the Republic by joining Darth Revan and Darth Malak and then razing Telos. At the time, he doesn't know his son is alive, and so he has nothing and hunts his commanding officer and hates Revan and Malak and becomes suspicious and (rightfully) somewhat fearful of the thin line Force sensitives walk. He doesn't have anything left besides a vendetta.... he has every reason to be distrustful and whiny of Revan, especially a female Revan that he falls in love with as he always assumed it Revan, not Malak that bombarded Telos and killed his family. But once he comes back to the party, its over. Yeah, he watches Revan but he never complains about it again. I wish the same could be said for Kaidan.

Soooo yeah. My horridly long 2 cents. Have a photo for the wall o'text.


via http://fridasuarez.deviantart.com/

Modifié par RilantheFirebug, 25 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[Karrie788]

Holy smokes that picture is hot.

About Kaidan: I hated the fact that, after Virmire, he and Ashley basically become the same person. In favour of Ashley's character, actually. I love Ashley, so no problem, but when I heard Kaidan yell "You bastards! You're selling us out!" to the Council in ME1, something felt wrong. Kaidan wouldn't react like that.
And while the scene on Horizon was completely ok with Ash in ME2, I had the same "something is wrong" feeling when it was Kaidan. I wish they had different reactions. Not saying that Kaidan would downright trust Shep about Cerberus, but his reaction felt SO OOC.
Can't say about ME3, I haven't played a game in which he was alive.

Modifié par Karrie788, 25 mars 2012 - 09:27 .

[RilantheFirebug]

Karrie788 wrote...

Holy smokes that picture is hot.

About Kaidan: I hated the fact that, after Virmire, he and Ashley basically become the same person. In favour of Ashley's character, actually. I love Ashley, so no problem, but when I heard Kaidan yell "You bastards! You're selling us out!" to the Council in ME1, something felt wrong. Kaidan wouldn't react like that.
And while the scene on Horizon was completely ok with Ash in ME2, I had the same "something is wrong" feeling when it was Kaidan. I wish they had different reactions. Not saying that Kaidan would downright trust Shep about Cerberus, but his reaction felt SO OOC.
Can't say about ME3, I haven't played a game in which he was alive.

I'm finding I like playing with Ashley as the VS instead of Kaidan in ME3. She seems to be more mature about it.

[outmane]

RilantheFirebug wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Holy smokes that picture is hot.

About Kaidan: I hated the fact that, after Virmire, he and Ashley basically become the same person. In favour of Ashley's character, actually. I love Ashley, so no problem, but when I heard Kaidan yell "You bastards! You're selling us out!" to the Council in ME1, something felt wrong. Kaidan wouldn't react like that.
And while the scene on Horizon was completely ok with Ash in ME2, I had the same "something is wrong" feeling when it was Kaidan. I wish they had different reactions. Not saying that Kaidan would downright trust Shep about Cerberus, but his reaction felt SO OOC.
Can't say about ME3, I haven't played a game in which he was alive.

I'm finding I like playing with Ashley as the VS instead of Kaidan in ME3. She seems to be more mature about it.

for Ashley, the whole problem really is about Cerberus. On the other hand, for Kaidan, the problem lays in Shepard. So he can get heavily bipolar with saying he loves her then questionning her all around. Ashley takes hertime to trust again  but she isnt playing yoyo with Shep as much.

[Lethania]

outmane wrote...

RilantheFirebug wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Holy smokes that picture is hot.

About Kaidan: I hated the fact that, after Virmire, he and Ashley basically become the same person. In favour of Ashley's character, actually. I love Ashley, so no problem, but when I heard Kaidan yell "You bastards! You're selling us out!" to the Council in ME1, something felt wrong. Kaidan wouldn't react like that.
And while the scene on Horizon was completely ok with Ash in ME2, I had the same "something is wrong" feeling when it was Kaidan. I wish they had different reactions. Not saying that Kaidan would downright trust Shep about Cerberus, but his reaction felt SO OOC.
Can't say about ME3, I haven't played a game in which he was alive.

I'm finding I like playing with Ashley as the VS instead of Kaidan in ME3. She seems to be more mature about it.

for Ashley, the whole problem really is about Cerberus. On the other hand, for Kaidan, the problem lays in Shepard. So he can get heavily bipolar with saying he loves her then questionning her all around. Ashley takes hertime to trust again  but she isnt playing yoyo with Shep as much.

Haha but Ashley is also a super **** in ME3, specially if you romanced someone else in ME2. I've seen her reaction with Miranda, and Tali (That was hilarious! Go Tali!!) While Kaidan doesn't get ****y at all about that, just about Cerberus.

And yeh, now that I romanced Garrus (I was lucky I ran my Shenko first, can never not romance Garrus again), there just isn't a comparison to anyone else. He was there always. Trusting and he always had your back. Kaidan just got.. Wierd. I loved him in ME1. ME2 not so much. ME3 is better but still.. Dunno. And I LOVE Sbarge, he makes an awesome Kaidan, but his writing isn't the best. The whole "I can't hide what I feel any longer" Quote from the shenko date made me cringe. And him saying "I understand why you cheated" WTF!? That made my Shepard wanna slap his face. 

[outmane]

Lethania wrote...

outmane wrote...

RilantheFirebug wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Holy smokes that picture is hot.

About Kaidan: I hated the fact that, after Virmire, he and Ashley basically become the same person. In favour of Ashley's character, actually. I love Ashley, so no problem, but when I heard Kaidan yell "You bastards! You're selling us out!" to the Council in ME1, something felt wrong. Kaidan wouldn't react like that.
And while the scene on Horizon was completely ok with Ash in ME2, I had the same "something is wrong" feeling when it was Kaidan. I wish they had different reactions. Not saying that Kaidan would downright trust Shep about Cerberus, but his reaction felt SO OOC.
Can't say about ME3, I haven't played a game in which he was alive.

I'm finding I like playing with Ashley as the VS instead of Kaidan in ME3. She seems to be more mature about it.

for Ashley, the whole problem really is about Cerberus. On the other hand, for Kaidan, the problem lays in Shepard. So he can get heavily bipolar with saying he loves her then questionning her all around. Ashley takes hertime to trust again  but she isnt playing yoyo with Shep as much.

Haha but Ashley is also a super **** in ME3, specially if you romanced someone else in ME2. I've seen her reaction with Miranda, and Tali (That was hilarious! Go Tali!!) While Kaidan doesn't get ****y at all about that, just about Cerberus.

And yeh, now that I romanced Garrus (I was lucky I ran my Shenko first, can never not romance Garrus again), there just isn't a comparison to anyone else. He was there always. Trusting and he always had your back. Kaidan just got.. Wierd. I loved him in ME1. ME2 not so much. ME3 is better but still.. Dunno. And I LOVE Sbarge, he makes an awesome Kaidan, but his writing isn't the best. The whole "I can't hide what I feel any longer" Quote from the shenko date made me cringe. And him saying "I understand why you cheated" WTF!? That made my Shepard wanna slap his face. 

Ash cant wrap her head around the fact Shep chose an other LI but she questions Cerberus integrity more then Shep's. On the other hand, Kaidan can understand beeing cheated on but will question Shep's integrity right until the moment he asks to set foot on the Normandy again (or question himself if you let him shoot Udina. Which is way better in my book cause I couldnt take more of his suspisions).

[Bad Cupcake]

 I'm watching my husband romance Kaidan for his non-import playthrough with his Sheploo  (BAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA) and it's... just... man.

[Karrie788]

"I can understand why you cheated" makes me cringe.

First off, it wasn't cheating. He dumped her on Horizon, she moved on, end of story.
Second, it sounds so condescending. It's basically like "I forgive you, I'm a better person than you are."

[outmane]

Bad Cupcake wrote...

 I'm watching my husband romance Kaidan for his non-import playthrough with his Sheploo  (BAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA) and it's... just... man.

Actually a new romance with him might be the high road. It makes way more sense that he wants to 'take it slow' with Shep in those circonstances and doesnt know how to act on the Normandy then when you try to rekindle with him. I might try it with oe of my malesheps (that or cortez, not sure yet).

[Bad Cupcake]

Karrie788 wrote...

"I can understand why you cheated" makes me cringe.

First off, it wasn't cheating. He dumped her on Horizon, she moved on, end of story.
Second, it sounds so condescending. It's basically like "I forgive you, I'm a better person than you are."

THIS. I think I lost my **** when he said that. Omgosh, I was so furious.

Here, I'm gonna sic my Queen on you, Kaidan...



I didn't cheat on you, you DUMPED me on Horizon (after I just saved your ***, to boot)

Modifié par Bad Cupcake, 25 mars 2012 - 10:12 .