103 réponses à ce sujet

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

With great power comes great responsibility......... Cerberus has none.

[Labrev]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

An underestimation, of both Cerberus (we don't truly know what they are and what they're capable of) and the potential of the CB.

Quite the contrary.
Cerberus isn't a large group. Regardless of what they are capable of, they'll never be able to wipe out the galaxy. 
The Collector Base is Reaper tech, something that will litter the galaxy if we win.

... which is an underestimation of the tech. They could potentially repurpose the seeker-swarms, and figure out how to use it against anyone in their way. That's just something we've seen, they might have much more than that.

The worst thing you can do when dealing with an enemy is to underestimate what they're capable of. The CB might have left behind all the power that a "small" group could need to become a major threat.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Didn't trust Martin, so I obviously didn't give him the base. Might have kept it if there was a possibility to 'dethrone' him pre-SM, or if the orthodox geth were to safeguard it, but alas.

Were I to metagame, however, with my Shepard knowing what happened in Evolution... I would've at least considered keeping it.

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

An underestimation, of both Cerberus (we don't truly know what they are and what they're capable of) and the potential of the CB.

Quite the contrary.
Cerberus isn't a large group. Regardless of what they are capable of, they'll never be able to wipe out the galaxy. 
The Collector Base is Reaper tech, something that will litter the galaxy if we win.

... which is an underestimation of the tech. They could potentially repurpose the seeker-swarms, and figure out how to use it against anyone in their way. That's just something we've seen, they might have much more than that.

Knowing Cerberus, they'll probably have the seeker swarms getting out of control and turn on them, of course only after modifying them to become lethal, after which they'll find a way to escape the base into the rest of the galaxy.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 juin 2011 - 07:05 .

[Skirata129]

mauro2222 wrote...

If you kept the base, you are pissing on the faces of the abducted people, you're nothing different than Cerberus and their easy path of the Greater-Good excuse. Regarding on keeping it or destroy it, it´s only a moral choice. You choose if you want to be a selfish moron who would do everything for saving his arse or remain faithfull to who you really are, fighting against the evil not compromising the ideals for which you're fighting.

Destroying evil it's not the same as creating good.

Sorry for my bad English

so... you're saying that the doctors who kept the ****'s research are just as bad as ****'s themselves. how many lives has that saved? thousands? millions? Same line of thinking as those doctors for saving the base.
*why does it block hitler's political party? that's just weird.

Modifié par Skirata129, 14 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[Ieldra]

Fleetleader101 wrote...
What did you do in your "main story?"

I personally think that keeping the base is the best action, in light of the lives already lost by it. If we blow it up we waist their lives, but for whatever reason Bio Ware seems to indicate this is the Renagade choice and I am a full fledged Paragron so I'm a little torn.

[...]

This may be the most important decision we made in all of Mass 2 so yeah just looking for some theories and some feedback on your story.

This has been discussed to death, and the new developments in ME3 appear to indicate that keeping the base might have some disadvantages. But I still think that it is highly desirable to keep it. Who gets it is important, but it's the lesser consideration, the more important one is that the knowledge contained therein will not be lost. The base is a Reaper factory, it should contain almost everything there is to know about their physical structure. Apart from that, at the end of ME2 you do not know that Cerberus will be working with the Reapers, and as a rule I prefer not to metagame. Thus, I almost always keep the base in the hope that something useful against the Reapers will eventually materialize from it. Apart from that, I want that Reaper technology is understood, beyond its possible impact on the war effort.

As for Paragon and Renegade, I think people are doing this the wrong way. It should not matter which side any decision is attached to. Your Shepard should think a certain way determined by how you envision him, and that may result in a Paragon choice in one case and a Renegade choice in the other. If he turns out to be 80% Paragon and 20% Renegade - or anything else - that is completely accidental, the *result* of his thinking a certain way, not the cause. The Paragon and Renegade system is for description, not for prescription.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[Payne by name]

I kept the base but ultimately it doesn't matter because either action will be covered or corrected with a couple of explanatory lines.

[JediMB]

CC-Tron wrote...

greed89 wrote...

1. messing With Reaper Tech [which Collector tech IS] never Ends well

1. Never? Thanix Cannon among others.

Yes, okay. So let's blow up the Collector Base, like we did with Sovereign, and then salvage and repurpose the remains.

[Ieldra]

greed89 wrote...
1. messing With Reaper Tech [which Collector tech IS] never Ends well

That kind of blanket assertion can be used to avoid almost anything dangerous. And it is a moralistic argument, not a practical one. The intuition underlying such assertions is "That which was used for evil never has any practical benefit". I don't need to mention it isn't true, do I?

First, it is not true - see EDI, see the Thanix cannon - and second, Reaper technology needs to be understood. I like to compare studying it to studying radioactivity. Things certainly didn't end well for the early researchers - some of them died of cancer - but now we know what it is and understand its dangers, and as a consequence we know how to protect ourselves from it to some degree. If you could ask the ghosts of the early researchers if it was all worth it, I bet most would say "yes". Not just for the practical benefits, but for the improved understanding of the universe. If Reaper technology is based on principles as yet unknown to humanity, then any scientist worthy of the term will want to study it, and that is as it should be.

Those who studied it successfully and made EDI and the Thanix using the knowledge gained, they were the ones who knew which kind of precaution to take with Reaper artifacts, unlike Dr. Chandana and his team, who set up camp in a derelict Reaper without any protection whatsoever. No wonder they got burned.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 juin 2011 - 02:41 .

[Labrev]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Knowing Cerberus, they'll probably have the seeker swarms getting out of control and turn on them, of course only after modifying them to become lethal, after which they'll find a way to escape the base into the rest of the galaxy.

Another valid point - Cerberus does have a propensity for failure. Sometimes, failed projects are acceptable. You can learn from such experiences. But the reasons why Cerberus projects fail are not acceptable: no ethical boundaries, no accountability, incompetant oversight.

So no, we do not "need" to keep it. In fact, it's probably for the best to get rid of it so you don't have to clean up another Cerberus mess while the Reapers are in our yard.

[AlexRmF]

I destroyed it 2 times and kept it 2 times, but my logic would be to keep it regardless of how the story evolved. you don't blow-up your enemy's weapons if you can acquire them and later, use them against him
it might take some time to study the technology, and even though you might never be able to use it, you'll surely find a way to protect yourself against it.

[Inprea]

I opted for destroying the base for several reasons that have already been listed here but just a little listing again.

1. Reaper Technology and by extension collector technology has proven insanely dangerous several times. The artifact in arrival, the reaper husk, the lost miners even the reaper IFF blew up in our faces in the beginning. Using even a few bits of this stuff is high risk and an entire space is well beyond what I consider acceptable.

2. I do not trust Cerberus enough to let them have it. Sending me into a trap with no advanced warning, using my allies as bait, using me as bait, their past experiments no trust at all. So naturally I'm not going to trust them with a super weapon or tech.

3. Using tech that the Reapers have developed and mastered seems like an insanely bad idea to me. Rather then using their own tech against them it seems more likely from my view point that it would enable them to turn the technology against us.

4. Alternatives, we recovered the Prothean artifact in firewalker which is rather advanced technology in itself as well. Perhaps not on par with Reaper tech but it still seems better to try to learn from it as it's less likely to bight us in the rear.

Further more there is plenty of advanced technology to make use of as the Normandia should represent. While the cannons were Reaper tech that had been examined the shields were Quarian tech, the armor was human tech, engine upgrades were Asari technology. Instead of relying on the dangerous technology we don't understand what would happen if all sides were to share their technology? It might do more to close the power gap then many think and we'd have a better understanding of it works.

As an added benefit if you went the Paragon path you may be able to toss in some Rachnai technology and even better some Geth. It's mentioned several times after all that Geth technology has progressed down a different path then the other races. Yet it's partly Geth technology that lets Shepeard gain the hardened shield upgrade while Alliance tech is used to improve Legion's shield. I don't believe we truly need the Reaper's technology but rather to combine the technology of all the races both living and what the lost ones left behind.

[xassantex]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I always blow it up, from my 'main' Shepards to my 'trying something different' Shepards. It's my conversations with Legion that convince me - the geth ideal is for a path of self-determination, and the Reapers have been forcing galactic civilization on prescribed paths. Studying Reaper technology will do us no good - after the experiences on the derelict Reaper, my Shepards have seen the danger of doing anything with their tech, because it always leads to indoctrination. What needs to happen is that the races of the galaxy need to innovate, come up with things that are NOT based on Reaper designs in order to fight them, because they won't have defenses for them.

^^ this.
and also i love pissing TIM off because he's so full of himself. His miserable look at the end is very satisfying.
and i like to see the star with Paragon stamped allover it. 

[mauro2222]

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

If you kept the base, you are pissing on the faces of the abducted people, you're nothing different than Cerberus and their easy path of the Greater-Good excuse. Regarding on keeping it or destroy it, it´s only a moral choice. You choose if you want to be a selfish moron who would do everything for saving his arse or remain faithfull to who you really are, fighting against the evil not compromising the ideals for which you're fighting.

Destroying evil it's not the same as creating good.

Sorry for my bad English

so... you're saying that the doctors who kept the ****'s research are just as bad as ****'s themselves. how many lives has that saved? thousands? millions? Same line of thinking as those doctors for saving the base.
*why does it block hitler's political party? that's just weird.

Yeah, it ****** me off that stupid block:blink:, it's like if ****sm is an insult instead of a political totalitarian view (which I don't like)... I don't understand your point, what research? And I was only sayin that if you really value human life, you will always go in the search of other ways to fullfill your goal, for me sacrificing one life to save 100 it's the same than killing 100 in order to save one. It's the same as Maelon research, unmoral and unethical, I know that it could help the Krogans but its not the correct path to take, keep going with that research is like tell to Maelon "Go on it's ok you were right". Another example is the church, if you like the catholic church, you are being an ignorant who likes the crusades and the Holy Inquisition .

Modifié par mauro2222, 14 juin 2011 - 06:31 .

[Fatex3]

I have two main ME2 saves Renegade and Paragon. For my own personal "cannon" I destroyed the base.

[jbblue05]

I save he CB everytime. Brofist TIM, tell my crew I don't give a f*uck what they think, and play video games.

Even with metagaming I will still save it. I find keeping the base is immersing yourself in the story while destroying the base is like living in a fairy tale.

Modifié par jbblue05, 14 juin 2011 - 06:49 .

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

lol why do people only do one or the other? in one i blow it up, in another i keep it, pretty much like i do with the rachni and the VS.

[marshalleck]

Northern Sun wrote...

I'm still keeping it. Hopefully once we've sorted out Cerberus it will give us an advantage against the reapers.

And the other species, beyond the war with the Reapers.

[My Liege]

Medhia Nox wrote...

....3) Who knows if we can even run the thing? We could be wasting resources and time studying it that could be spent putting together more reliable weaponry. After all... we have Thanix cannons which destroyed the collector base... let's spend the resources outfitting all warships in the galaxy with these weapons.

Remember, the Thanix cannon and cyclonic shield and IFF enhancements that allowed the Normandy to survive in the galactic center are all Reaper technology.  The Thanix cannon and Cyclonic Shielding were reverse engineered from pieces of Sovereign recovered after the Battle of the Citadel.

The Collector base might have other technologies we can take advantage of in the same way we developed new technology from Nazara's (Sovereign's) body.

Further, simply making the base disappear does nothing to avenge those that have fallen.  Destroying the base only serves the council's blind adherence to the story that the Reaper's do not exist.  Better to study it, document it, and show the council the atrocities that happened there.  Prove to them just how dangerous the Reapers truly are.

In conclusion, more lives might be saved from the technology and the murders of countless humans can be acknowledged instead of swept under the carpet by the council.  To me, preserving it is the most Paragon thing that can be done.  Despite my desire to wreak holy justice on the base I have to think about the future and save as many lives as possible instead of selfishly satisfying my desire for vengence.

[bennyc72]

My main Shep destroyed it. Most of my other Sheps blew it up in the majority of my playthroughs, in fact. When I did hand it over to Cerberus, it was meta-gaming to see what happens as a result.

Modifié par bennyc72, 14 juin 2011 - 07:43 .

[Spectre_907]

I still keep it. It still makes sense within the context of the game's story to keep it. Destroying it just out of lack of trust for Cerberus is just as risky and dangerous as electing to save the Council. Destroying it out of fear of indoctrination or the dangers of Reaper tech is foolish.

[Warkupo]

I blew it up so I could watch TIM squirm.

[EvilSavior]

hell for all we know if you kept the base it could be their reason for being indoctrinated. if you blow it up however bioware will just make some other excuse for that reason of indoctrination

[ThanesSniper]

I kept it. I'm a people-pleaser, and I just wanted TIM to be happy.

[Rawke]

At that particular moment, it was just to ****** TIM off. But I also don't like the idea of handing tons of Reaper technology to Cerberus. And since blowing the base up was the only other option...bye-bye base.

[Fleetleader101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Fleetleader101 wrote...
What did you do in your "main story?"

I personally think that keeping the base is the best action, in light of the lives already lost by it. If we blow it up we waist their lives, but for whatever reason Bio Ware seems to indicate this is the Renagade choice and I am a full fledged Paragron so I'm a little torn.

[...]

This may be the most important decision we made in all of Mass 2 so yeah just looking for some theories and some feedback on your story.

1This has been discussed to death, and the new developments in ME3 appear to indicate that keeping the base might have some disadvantages. But I still think that it is highly desirable to keep it. Who gets it is important, but it's the lesser consideration, the more important one is that the knowledge contained therein will not be lost. The base is a Reaper factory, it should contain almost everything there is to know about their physical structure. Apart from that, at the end of ME2 you do not know that Cerberus will be working with the Reapers, and as a rule I prefer not to metagame. Thus, I almost always keep the base in the hope that something useful against the Reapers will eventually materialize from it. Apart from that, I want that Reaper technology is understood, beyond its possible impact on the war effort.

As for Paragon and Renegade, I think people are doing this the wrong way. It should not matter which side any decision is attached to. Your Shepard should think a certain way determined by how you envision him, and that may result in a Paragon choice in one case and a Renegade choice in the other. If he turns out to be 80% Paragon and 20% Renegade - or anything else - that is completely accidental, the *result* of his thinking a certain way, not the cause. 2The Paragon and Renegade system is for description, not for prescription.

1 Yeah it has I'm  sure, just with the new trailer I figured peole were using shepards spidey sense of the future and the arguments had changed a lot.

2. You know I had never thought of it that way, but I think your right. For example like Mordin said. Killing some people helps other people. Healing some can also help. Both helps= both good choices.


This is kindof simlar also to Projcect Overlord and the poor man who was totured for the sake of stopping the reapers. See on that I felt bad about his suffering and I saved him, because he was alive, but I cant do anything for the dead. Know what I mean?