103 réponses à ce sujet

[Fleetleader101]

EvilSavior wrote...

hell for all we know if you kept the base it could be their reason for being indoctrinated. if you blow it up however bioware will just make some other excuse for that reason of indoctrination

Now that would be a plot twist if I ever heard one.

[Starzie]

I blew it sky high and flipped TIM the bird. The way I envision my Shepard (she's a spacer, sole survivor), she was never able to really let go of her grudge against Cerberus, and for good reason. That was a large factor in the decision to blow it up. She can't trust Cerberus. Ever. Her other reasons, are at least a little more sound. She knows the reapers are controlling the way the galaxy's tech goes, she also knows that Reaper tech is highly dangerous. Yes it could help, but it could also screw everyone over. She knows the Protheans tried to study Reaper tech to fight back, but guess what happened to them? She's not willing to risk that. There's also all the people who died there that figures into her decision. If it were her turned into grey soup to build a Reaper, she'd want the place blown to its separate atoms. That's her opinion, of course, but she can't exactly ask the dead colonists. And really, I play with the idea that under her strong front, she's not thinking 100% clearly. She's just been brought back to life, she's been forced to work with a group she'd rather see dead and gone, her crew nearly got melted... I could go on. At this point, my Shepard is looking for blood.

In terms of metagaming, I'm actually hoping the decision does come back to bite her in the ass. She's not perfect, she's human, and she let her prejudices, and her personal biased opinion screw her over. Makes for a more interesting game. XD But that's my "canon" Shepard. My other play-throughs, when I finish them, will have the decision based on the character I've created. I just can't play the game one way when there's others way available. I love seeing all the outcomes.

[Warkupo]

Also, explosions are much cooler than... Not explosions.

Hell, that's ultimately the same reason I saved the council in ME1. The cut-scene felt more heroic.

[Skirata129]

mauro2222 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

If you kept the base, you are pissing on the faces of the abducted people, you're nothing different than Cerberus and their easy path of the Greater-Good excuse. Regarding on keeping it or destroy it, it´s only a moral choice. You choose if you want to be a selfish moron who would do everything for saving his arse or remain faithfull to who you really are, fighting against the evil not compromising the ideals for which you're fighting.

Destroying evil it's not the same as creating good.

Sorry for my bad English

so... you're saying that the doctors who kept the ****'s research are just as bad as ****'s themselves. how many lives has that saved? thousands? millions? Same line of thinking as those doctors for saving the base.
*why does it block hitler's political party? that's just weird.

Yeah, it ****** me off that stupid block:blink:, it's like if ****sm is an insult instead of a political totalitarian view (which I don't like)... I don't understand your point, what research? And I was only sayin that if you really value human life, you will always go in the search of other ways to fullfill your goal, for me sacrificing one life to save 100 it's the same than killing 100 in order to save one. It's the same as Maelon research, unmoral and unethical, I know that it could help the Krogans but its not the correct path to take, keep going with that research is like tell to Maelon "Go on it's ok you were right". Another example is the church, if you like the catholic church, you are being an ignorant who likes the crusades and the Holy Inquisition .

The N A Z I S did some pretty horrific things to prisoners of war in order to discover more about the human body, reactions to chemicals, damage in various forms and all kinds of trauma, as well as performing incredibly risky operations that were unproven and untested. they probably killed thousands doing this, but the research was kept and it probably saving infinitely more lives than were destroyed in its creation.

[jtav]

I usually destroy the base because I'm genre savvy enough to know that I'm in the kind of story where this sort of thing never ends well. Call it meta-gaming, but I refuse to make myself miserable

[Medhia Nox]

@My Liege: I totally understand what you're saying.

But, to quote Frodo Baggins: "It would sound like wisdom but for the warning in my heart."

====

@jtav - it's not metagaming at all. Shepard is in a unique position to have seen what the Reapers are capable of. Being deeply suspicious of anything Reaper involved is reasonable.

====

As for some of the tech taken from Sovereign's corpse... I think taking the guns from Sovereign is nothing even remotely the same as taking the IFF (and look how THAT turned out). Plus - we used information about sovereigns guns to build new gun tech of our own (or, at least the Turians did)

It's not like the Turian's strapped Sovereigns arms to the Normandy to fire Thanix weaponry.

Thanix Cannons are purely Turian tech - based off of information recovered about Reaper weaponry.

[Bad King]

greed89 wrote...

Reaper Tech is Evil, its shown that 100 times over

Blow it up

Remind me never to use a mass relay again. Also I'll never again visit the Citadel.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

After seeing how well Cerberus did with the "abandoned reaper," there's no way my Shepard would let Cerberus within a solar system of more reaper tech. If I thought Cerberus knew what the word responsible meant, I might have considered it.

I'll probably meta-game once and keep the base just for a slightly different story in ME3.

[Spectre_907]

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

After seeing how well Cerberus did with the "abandoned reaper," there's no way my Shepard would let Cerberus within a solar system of more reaper tech. If I thought Cerberus knew what the word responsible meant, I might have considered it.

What's wrong with what Cerberus did at the Derelict Reaper? They gave you the Reaper IFF. Without that, we don't stop the Reapers. That's responsible enough for me. Additionally, we gathered valuable data on indoctrination progression and husk conversion. That will be helpful in studying the Collector base.

[mauro2222]

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

If you kept the base, you are pissing on the faces of the abducted people, you're nothing different than Cerberus and their easy path of the Greater-Good excuse. Regarding on keeping it or destroy it, it´s only a moral choice. You choose if you want to be a selfish moron who would do everything for saving his arse or remain faithfull to who you really are, fighting against the evil not compromising the ideals for which you're fighting.

Destroying evil it's not the same as creating good.

Sorry for my bad English

so... you're saying that the doctors who kept the ****'s research are just as bad as ****'s themselves. how many lives has that saved? thousands? millions? Same line of thinking as those doctors for saving the base.
*why does it block hitler's political party? that's just weird.

Yeah, it ****** me off that stupid block:blink:, it's like if ****sm is an insult instead of a political totalitarian view (which I don't like)... I don't understand your point, what research? And I was only sayin that if you really value human life, you will always go in the search of other ways to fullfill your goal, for me sacrificing one life to save 100 it's the same than killing 100 in order to save one. It's the same as Maelon research, unmoral and unethical, I know that it could help the Krogans but its not the correct path to take, keep going with that research is like tell to Maelon "Go on it's ok you were right". Another example is the church, if you like the catholic church, you are being an ignorant who likes the crusades and the Holy Inquisition .

The N A Z I S did some pretty horrific things to prisoners of war in order to discover more about the human body, reactions to chemicals, damage in various forms and all kinds of trauma, as well as performing incredibly risky operations that were unproven and untested. they probably killed thousands doing this, but the research was kept and it probably saving infinitely more lives than were destroyed in its creation.

"but the research was kept and it probably saving infinitely more lives than were destroyed in its creation." there is the problem, that research was stained from the very beginning, expressed or in a tacit way, youre justifying their actions with the result, nothing different than Cerberus or Maelon research. That's why I destroyed the base and deleted the data, so Mordin can begin his investigation in the correct way.

Modifié par mauro2222, 15 juin 2011 - 05:45 .

[EliDL]

I blew it up. I agree with the Paragon dialogue for this choice and overall it just felt like the right thing to do to me. I made choices based on what I would do and so my shep is paragon.

Destroyed the base - Reprogrammed the geth - Saved the Rachni queen - Saved the council

[Massadonious1]

Bad King wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Reaper Tech is Evil, its shown that 100 times over

Blow it up

Remind me never to use a mass relay again. Also I'll never again visit the Citadel.

Indoctrinating people via the Citadel or Mass Relays kinda defeates the whole purpose of building up advance societies so they can "Reap" them later.

I don't think they felt the same about the Collector Base and all the artifacts and other tech they left behind, however.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 15 juin 2011 - 06:52 .

[Agamo45]

I kept the base, we'll have the best chance against the Reapers if we use their own tech against them. Plus the paragon justification for destroying the base is just plain stupid, something about maintaining the soul of our species. Guess what, a "moral highground" isn't going to defeat the Reapers, you'll just get everyone killed thinking that way. Using the technology in the base will have made the deaths of those colonists worthwhile. We're fighting for survival, we don't have the luxury of worrying about ridiculous morality that ultimately has little meaning.

[Zimary]

Blew it up. TIM was saying how its all your choice since the very beginning, but then he immediately wants you to keep the base and wont take no for an answer?! Suspicious much? Seems to me that was his target from the beginning.

Anyway, don't need the base to beat the Reapers. Just refer to Shepard's speech if you blew it up. Says it all.

[Mystik]

I refuse to give it to The Illusive Man as Paragon or Renegade. I don't trust the guy at all and Reaper technology always seems to end with indoctrination. coincidence? you forge your own path, and you don't take the path the reapers leave for you. they are just using you for Cerberus's interests.

[rpgfan321]

I kept it for my 'canon' Shepard. I saw it as a potential resource to know about the Reapers. Also I played mine as a renegade so practicality is at the top. I played her as the ruthless, for-the-victory person in a position of power. Still even if I now know Cerberus becomes Shepard's enemy, I think I will always pick to keep the base for the sake of knowledge about the enemy. Intelligence is key to winning a war. So I will always pick that option unless I decide to play a different Shepard. But for my 'canon' or my first Shepard, she will always see it as a potential resource

[Paula Deen]

Normally, I would keep it, but seeing as Cerberus has a knack for utterly failing at conducting any sort of scientific experiments, especially with advanced technology, without it backfiring horribly--I think the choice is rather obvious.

Overlord, Teltin, Gillian (from Ascension) come to mind. And then, of course, is the unbelievably stupid and impractical attempt at enslaving the Rachni and Thorian Creepers. Because, you know, the Alliance would totally adopt animalistic zombies as expendable shock troopers. And the galaxy would be completely fine with humanity using Rachni for front-line fighting.

[atheelogos]

Legion of Grunt wrote...

well seeing as Cerberus is said to be indoctrinated in ME3...

letting them keep a base full of powerful tech might not be the best idea

Dude don't make decisions or arguments after the fact...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

mauro2222 wrote...
"but the research was kept and it probably saving infinitely more lives than were destroyed in its creation." there is the problem, that research was stained from the very beginning, expressed or in a tacit way, youre justifying their actions with the result, nothing different than Cerberus or Maelon research. That's why I destroyed the base and deleted the data, so Mordin can begin his investigation in the correct way.

People are not justifying the actions that happend. People are saying that it is better to make the best of a tragic situation (like with the **** research). Instead of throwing it all away. What happend had happend, destroying it won't undo that. But you can take what has been learned and put it to good use.

Legion has a pretty good line regarding this during the decision.

"Shepard commander! This facility is data. It has no ethnical value. Destroying it will not return the dead but preserving it may save others."

If anything. Destroying the base is a bigger insult to those that died. Because their deaths meant nothing then.

[Pedestrial]

One thing that's never made sense to me is one of TIMs last lines
if you blow the base "You're making a habit of costing me more than time and money"
seems to imply you've constantly gone against his orders and haven't done
what you've been asked to do, when in fact you have.

The main underlying tasks, stop the collector attacks, gather intel on reapers/collectors
and remove threat of collectors/reapers, all done to the best of your ability,
not sure what he's banging on about.

Modifié par Pedestrial, 15 juin 2011 - 09:03 .

[Mrfaz]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Shepard arrives to the end decision, he has to decide between getting rid of the base or keeping it.

What my Shepard knows:
Reapers are coming.
Nobody is his ally except for Cerberus.
Reaper Tech is dangerous but has helped us stop the Reapers twice before and going in with no understanding of it's dangers is more dangerous than experimenting with it.
The Base stores Collector Technology, which is extremely powerful.
The Base is a Reaper factory.

All things considered, I imagined:
What if the Reapers are too much for the galaxy? What if the Base was required?

If you kept the Base: The universe is saved, Cerberus can do whatever the hell they want but they'll never match the destruction that the Reapers can achieve with their limited resources and numbers.

If you destroyed the Base: Everybody is dead.


Therefor, I sat there and thought to myself "It's better to have the Base and not need it than needing it but not having it". The Base is given to Cerberus every time, regardless of morality. Paragon, Renegade? Base is kept!

Reading the novel motivated me that I made the right decision (Cerberus was researching Reaper tech and indocrination with the Base, something I wanted them to do), though the magazines turned around and slapped me in the face immediately afterward. Still not going to metagame though, I don't see the logic in blowing it up.

I really couldn't agree more with this.  My first play through never really counts for me, that may sound odd but it's true.  I'm testing the waters and learning what I like about the game.  I blew it up on the first play through but that's all gonna change when it comes to this second play through.  And honestly, I kinda hope it makes ME3 harder =-D
!

[Faust1979]

 I don't have a main story or a main character. But I have both blown it up and saved it multiple time

[Fleetleader101]

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

If you kept the base, you are pissing on the faces of the abducted people, you're nothing different than Cerberus and their easy path of the Greater-Good excuse. Regarding on keeping it or destroy it, it´s only a moral choice. You choose if you want to be a selfish moron who would do everything for saving his arse or remain faithfull to who you really are, fighting against the evil not compromising the ideals for which you're fighting.

Destroying evil it's not the same as creating good.

Sorry for my bad English

so... you're saying that the doctors who kept the ****'s research are just as bad as ****'s themselves. how many lives has that saved? thousands? millions? Same line of thinking as those doctors for saving the base.
*why does it block hitler's political party? that's just weird.

Yeah, it ****** me off that stupid block:blink:, it's like if ****sm is an insult instead of a political totalitarian view (which I don't like)... I don't understand your point, what research? And I was only sayin that if you really value human life, you will always go in the search of other ways to fullfill your goal, for me sacrificing one life to save 100 it's the same than killing 100 in order to save one. It's the same as Maelon research, unmoral and unethical, I know that it could help the Krogans but its not the correct path to take, keep going with that research is like tell to Maelon "Go on it's ok you were right". Another example is the church, if you like the catholic church, you are being an ignorant who likes the crusades and the Holy Inquisition .

The N A Z I S did some pretty horrific things to prisoners of war in order to discover more about the human body, reactions to chemicals, damage in various forms and all kinds of trauma, as well as performing incredibly risky operations that were unproven and untested. they probably killed thousands doing this, but the research was kept and it probably saving infinitely more lives than were destroyed in its creation.

Yeah, as a history major I can definantly tell you that that is true. Idk about more lives saved than taken, but in the long run your probably right. This is sort of why  I feel like handing it over to timmy boy

[Fleetleader101]

Bad King wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Reaper Tech is Evil, its shown that 100 times over

Blow it up

Remind me never to use a mass relay again. Also I'll never again visit the Citadel.

I thought the prothians made that... oh yeah nvm right reapers...

[mineralica]

Reapers tech tend to indoctrinate everyone who work with it - even those who claims they know risks - and Cerberus is rarely succeed in their experiments. Most of my Shepards, minus xenophobe and "worst import", decided the future will be safer without ticking bomb.

For colour of sun: it was said in Retribution TIM sits in a room with an image of star, so "I'm TIM and this is the most badass wallpaper in the galaxy"