52 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

So I was just watching the GameTrailers extended gameplay demos of ME3 and two things caught my eye as worrisome.

The first is at 3:18 in Part 1 where we witness Shepard reassuring the krogan female and the second is at 1:05 in Part 2 we see Shepard in mid-escape stop what he's doing to go back and try to coax a frightened child out of an airvent. In both cases, no dialog option is presented nor is a Paragon Interupt seen; Shepard simply says and does these things of his own volition.

Now, the first is a pretty Paragon thing to say but I could shrug it off. The second however is bordering on sappy goody-two-shoes-ery and the fact that my Renegade Shepard might be forced into doing these sorts of things without any prompting from me is a real concern. My Renegade Shepard wouldn't give a moment's pause about some random kid in a vent to begin with, let alone waste time trying to gently coax him out while the building falls down around him and the Reaper invasion is raging outside. The very definition of a Renegade is mission-first, and the mission in that instance is getting to the Normandy and getting off Earth ASAP, not rescuing orphans.
[Moderator Insert: There are dialog options: See link]

I understand that BioWare is apparently attempting to make a more "emotionally engaging " story, but it shouldn't come at the expense of roleplaying. These sorts  of characterizing actions should always be up to the player.

EDIT: Changed links since the YouTube ones were removed.

Modifié par JKoopman, 14 juin 2011 - 08:06 .

[OGRenderence]

I'll guess that it's like that for the demo.

[Platform626]

I'm going to go with the fact that it was a demo...for now. If that's how the game will actually turn out once it's released then I'll voice my concern.

[Bogsnot1]

OGRenderence wrote...
I'll guess that it's like that for the demo.

This.
Its a demo. There is still 9 months of work to be done on the game, which would include script writing and dialogue. Besides, they could be re-jigging the entire conversation engine so you no longer get the "I win" options highlighted in red and blue, and instead you have to have a normal conversation and the end result is determined by the sum of what you actually said.

[DocLasty]

JKoopman wrote...

So I was just watching the GameTrailers extended gameplay demos of ME3 and two things caught my eye as worrisome.

The first is at 3:18 in Part 1 where we witness Shepard reassuring the krogan female and the second is at 1:05 in Part 2 we see Shepard in mid-escape stop what he's doing to go back and try to coax a frightened child out of an airvent. In both cases, no dialog option is presented nor is a Paragon Interupt seen; Shepard simply says and does these things of his own volition.

Now, the first is a pretty Paragon thing to say but I could shrug it off. The second however is bordering on sappy goody-two-shoes-ery and the fact that my Renegade Shepard might be forced into doing these sorts of things without any prompting from me is a real concern. My Renegade Shepard wouldn't give a moment's pause about some random kid in a vent to begin with, let alone waste time trying to gently coax him out while the building falls down around him and the Reaper invasion is raging outside. The very definition of a Renegade is mission-first, and the mission in that instance is getting to the Normandy and getting off Earth ASAP, not rescuing orphans.

I understand that BioWare is apparently attempting to make a more "emotionally engaging " story, but it shouldn't come at the expense of roleplaying. These sorts  of characterizing actions should always be up to the player.

Even Renegade Shepard wouldn't be heartless enough to leave a little kid to die. Renegade means taking a practical approach, not a completely heartless one.

Besides, i think there's actually something up with that kid. The way he just...disappeared, the things he said...something was off. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a plot point, somehow.

[Paul Sedgmore]

I agree that this is down to the demo, there is still a lot of work to be done on ME3 and when a company produces a demo for E3 like this they create something that shows what they think will get the best reaction from what has been finished but does not show the full extent of what will be present in the final game. Plus paragon sells better to the general public that renegade

[Bnol]

So your Shepard is such a dick to ignore a kid who is right there in front of you? I mean sure kill adults, punch reporters in the face, but you really would just ignore the kid. I mean I can understand not wasting much time if the kid won't come out.

In terms of gameplay, you have to have the cutscene to allow the Paragon Shepard to make the choice to try to help the kid. I mean it would be odd to have that cutscene and just have a Paragon interrupt.

[Mister Mida]

Interesting points. But like said, all we can go on is the demo. What you saw now could be completely different in the end. Look at how ME (1) and ME2 looked like in their last E3's before being released compared to how they eventually ended up.

[Dexi]

Must.... nitpick... MOAAARR!!

[javierabegazo]

"E3 2011 Machinima Coverage - Mass Effect 3 Game Demo _ Interview with Jesse Houston"
http://www.youtube.c...Y2C62xo#t=12m7s


Skip to 12:07









There are dialog options, they just weren't present in that particular showing of the demo, the demo of a game that is still 9 months away from being finished.


:wizard:

Modifié par javierabegazo, 14 juin 2011 - 07:50 .

[DocLasty]

javierabegazo wrote...


"E3 2011 Machinima Coverage - Mass Effect 3 Game Demo _ Interview with Jesse Houston"
http://www.youtube.c...Y2C62xo#t=12m7s








There are dialog options, they just weren't present in that particular showing of the demo, the demo of a game that is still 9 months away from being finished.


:wizard:

You scare me, sometimes.

[Agamo45]

DocLasty wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

So I was just watching the GameTrailers extended gameplay demos of ME3 and two things caught my eye as worrisome.

The first is at 3:18 in Part 1 where we witness Shepard reassuring the krogan female and the second is at 1:05 in Part 2 we see Shepard in mid-escape stop what he's doing to go back and try to coax a frightened child out of an airvent. In both cases, no dialog option is presented nor is a Paragon Interupt seen; Shepard simply says and does these things of his own volition.

Now, the first is a pretty Paragon thing to say but I could shrug it off. The second however is bordering on sappy goody-two-shoes-ery and the fact that my Renegade Shepard might be forced into doing these sorts of things without any prompting from me is a real concern. My Renegade Shepard wouldn't give a moment's pause about some random kid in a vent to begin with, let alone waste time trying to gently coax him out while the building falls down around him and the Reaper invasion is raging outside. The very definition of a Renegade is mission-first, and the mission in that instance is getting to the Normandy and getting off Earth ASAP, not rescuing orphans.

I understand that BioWare is apparently attempting to make a more "emotionally engaging " story, but it shouldn't come at the expense of roleplaying. These sorts  of characterizing actions should always be up to the player.

Even Renegade Shepard wouldn't be heartless enough to leave a little kid to die. Renegade means taking a practical approach, not a completely heartless one.

Besides, i think there's actually something up with that kid. The way he just...disappeared, the things he said...something was off. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a plot point, somehow.

That kid is dead either way, as are millions of other kids. If you want to save anybody you have to get the hell off of Earth and come up with a plan, that's how a renegade would view it. It could be out of character for a renegade Shep to go out of his way like that automatically, without player input. I'm hoping it's just a demo thing.

[javierabegazo]

DocLasty wrote...
You scare me, sometimes.

I've got a semi-sharp eye Like semi-sharp cheddar cheese....er, or something like that

[Taritu]

Probably just a demo thing. Millions of kids are dying, even my paragon might not stop. If it takes a few seconds, "follow me kid!" then sure, otherwise, probably not. I'm trying to save trillions of sentient lives and risking that for one person, even a kid, isn't kosher.

[Massadonious1]

Agamo45 wrote...
That kid is dead either way, as are millions of other kids. If you want to save anybody you have to get the hell off of Earth and come up with a plan, that's how a renegade would view it.

I would imagine the entire conversation/situation would take less than 5 minutes, and unless the Earth's core is exploding, there should be enough leeway to account for those 5 minutes. 

And besides, as someone said downthread, he likely heard a noise and went to check it out. Are Renegade Shep's not allowed to be curious?

Modifié par Massadonious1, 14 juin 2011 - 08:27 .

[Flashlegend]

Hasn't everyone seen this demo like a million times by now? There are dialogue options but they're just being covered. And just walking over to look in the vent would not be out of character for renegade Shepard. Being focus on the mission to the point of ruthlessness does not mean you're a heartless bastard. Shepard is still a human and most(not all) people will show more pity to children than others in times of crisis.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 14 juin 2011 - 08:01 .

[Kasai666]

A bit off topic, but that kid...something tells me he might be a Checkov's Gun...or it's just a bad case if a sh*ty day.

[Inutaisho7996]

Agamo45 wrote...
That kid is dead either way, as are millions of other kids. If you want to save anybody you have to get the hell off of Earth and come up with a plan, that's how a renegade would view it. It could be out of character for a renegade Shep to go out of his way like that automatically, without player input. I'm hoping it's just a demo thing.

Renegade Shepard would think that ordinarilly. But seeing a kid you are actually in a position help is a lot more personal, and more likely to have an emotional effect. At moments like that, logical thinking easilly goes out the window.

"Hard to imagine galaxy. Too many people. Facless. Statictics. Easy to depersonalize."

Modifié par Inutaisho7996, 14 juin 2011 - 08:14 .

[DocLasty]

On top of that, watching the scene again, it seemed more like Shepard heard a weird noise and saw something moving, went to investigate, then talked to a kid. We never even saw what the Renegade dialogue choice might be like.

[shinobi602]

What are you guys talking about?

There are dialogue options...one says "Let me help you" or something like that, and the other says "Get out of here!"

Pretty sure the latter is pretty renegadey.

[azerSheppard]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...
That kid is dead either way, as are millions of other kids. If you want to save anybody you have to get the hell off of Earth and come up with a plan, that's how a renegade would view it. It could be out of character for a renegade Shep to go out of his way like that automatically, without player input. I'm hoping it's just a demo thing.

Renegade Shepard would think that ordinarilly. But seeing a kid you are actually in a position help is a lot more personal, and more likely to have an emotional effect. At moments like that, logical thinking easilly goes out the window.

"Hard to imagine galaxy. Too many people. Facless. Statictics. Easy to depersonalize."

Thats why love Mordin, his loyalty mission is my fav:devil:

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

shinobi602 wrote...

What are you guys talking about?

There are dialogue options...one says "Let me help you" or something like that, and the other says "Get out of here!"

Pretty sure the latter is pretty renegadey.

Yeah though part of me was wishing they had selected the renegade option at least once so we could see the difference. I highly doubt they haven't got it recorded seeing as it is obvious Meer has done a fair bit of his VA work already (and done cover work for others).

But agreed, I think it is far too soon to nitpick to such a level.

As for the 'My renegade wouldn't pause for a kid', people have to remember that not every renegade is going to be the same and I actually believe the majority would have gone over to see the kid.

[JKoopman]

I'm seeing a lot of Paragons trying to shove Paragon morals and viewpoints on Renegade players.

No, there is no reason whatsoever for a mission-focused Renegade Shepard to stop what he's doing to pull some kid out of a vent or even express any interest whatsoever in the first place and, contrary to what appears to be popular opinion, it doesn't make him a "heartless monster". Even a modern Special Forces operative wouldn't stop mid-mission while on an extraction to go pull some war refugee out of a gutter and drag them along.

Like I said, it's not Shepard's mission to be rescuing orphans. He's got billions if not trillions of lives depending on him reaching the extraction point and getting off planet as quickly as possible to rally the defense of the galaxy. Rescuing a child isn't relevant to the mission in any way. And even if Shepard DID stop, what's he going to do? Drag a child along onto the Normandy? He'll just be a liability and slow him down. And that's exactly how a Renegade Shepard would look at the situation.

[DocLasty]

Shepard heard a noise. He went to investigate, He found a kid. The only thing not in your control is that Shepard investigated a strange noise. We don't know what the Renegade options entailed - it could likely amount to him just yelling at the kid to run, then going about his business.

Seriously. If you're going to pick apart every. Little. Thing that happens and stretch for stuff to complain about, you're in for a long nine months.

[JKoopman]

You know, not every criticism can be handwaved away as nitpicking. Sometimes people have valid concerns.