20 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

I just realized that the devs are actually making players adopt a renegade mindset if they want a succesful renegade playthrough (no deaths in SM).

Hear me out. The major choices are pretty easy for a renegade. Save Collector Base, Destroy Geth and numerous others. The part where a player must adopt the Renegade mindset is in the everyday conversation. Renegades believe that the end justify the means, and the only way to accumulate enough Renegade points to retain everyone's loyalty and still make the decisions we want to is to generally be an A-hole in conversations because of the way the system is set up.

Just because I tend to make ruthless decisions does not mean I want to side with Jacob when he insults thane. Just because I believe destroying the Geth is a good idea does not mean I want to shoot Conrad in the foot. Just because I save the collector base does not mean I want to beat up Mouse when I need information. However, in order to save my squad's lives, I do all of these things. End justifies the means.

Congratulations on succesfully manipulating the players, bioware devs. lol

Modifié par Skirata129, 14 juin 2011 - 08:57 .

[SkittlesKat96]

Yeah I have to admit that even in my first Renegade playthrough somehow just with the way the game worked I kind of did everything renegade...

In my recent playthrough I've been breaking the mold quite a bit though and I've been playing as a bit of a "Paragade" as some people call it lol.

Like you said though if you don't get a full renegade meter then you'll have trouble convincing a lot of your squad mates to stop getting at each other....

I think when I get to my ME 2 playthrough I'll find a mod or something that gives me full renegade (when I get to the part where my squad mates get butthurt) just because the system is so screwed up.

[neubourn]

Yeah, BW is sneaky like that. I hated how they basically made you play paragon in parts of ME1.

I didnt even know there WAS a Renegade option for Chellick's mission on the citadel until i looked it up.
And the assault on Virmire? Got tons of Paragon points for helping out Kirrahe's squad. I didnt see how that was para or rene, it just made good tactical sense...make sure the diversion was a success so i could sneak in. Nope...heres 25 more Paragon points for ya.

[Icinix]

Skirata129 wrote...
... Just because I believe destroying the Geth is a good idea does not mean I want to shoot Conrad in the foot.

SUUUURREEEE it does.

I mean, EVERYBODY, wants to shoot Conrad in the foot. Especially after making up that damn story about the gun to his face.


Jerk.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Icinix wrote...

I mean, EVERYBODY, wants to shoot Conrad in the foot. Especially after making up that damn story about the gun to his face.

Jerk.

Word.  Even my halo-wearing paragon shoots Conrad without hesitation.  As for my other Shepards: he's lucky it was just his foot. 

[Skirata129]

I'm just saying, a lot of the renegade options are extremely rude with no reason for being rude. I want to get the job done, no matter what the cost. That doesn't mean I have to be impolite.

[marshalleck]

Umm, paragon is the same way. If you want to resolve all the conflicts in a paragon manner, you have to almost exclusively select the paragon dialogue options.

[Flashlegend]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just saying, a lot of the renegade options are extremely rude with no reason for being rude. I want to get the job done, no matter what the cost. That doesn't mean I have to be impolite.

Completely agree with you. Bioware says that the paragon and renegade system isn't supposed to boil down to being good and evil. With renegades, the ends are simply supposed to justify the means but a lot of renegade options are simply being an ass to others during dialogue(for no particular reason) or just being extremely cruel without any intent in mind.(i.e. pushing that guy in thane's loyalty mission out a window, although, it was extremely funny)

[theelementslayer]

ya, not true at all ( to make everyone survive the SM). I took on a playthrough totally role playing and NOT using the blue or red options on the side of the screen. I did do the interupts, but no blue or red dialouge choices. And it was tricky, about who to side with and such, but I didnt lose anyone on the SM. Just gotta choose the right people for the right jobs.

[Repearized Miranda]

If BW did intentionally do that, can you blame them because most people like being bad. Too many restrictions on being good. Given the example of having to break up fights (Jack/Miranda, Legion/Tali) ...

Sure it's required to obtain a certain number of red points, but the same is true with blue points. AAMOF, there are lots of times when the red or blue choices pop up - not just during very crucial moments; I wouldn't say it makes them less crucial though.

I think it boils down to how the plaer sees it which means that the player may not see it like BW does - especially during the initial play-through! ie: During the interrogation, Thane's mission, Shep either let's him live or gives his "manhood" to a Krogan. I bet most pick doing the latter because the reaction is awesome - not to mention the line itself. That probably isn't a red or blue choice, but you see what I mean.

When one first plays ME (2 & 3), they don't think too much if at all about the story; players just want to play. Subsquent plays might see them interweave it.

In short, I don't think they were telling people to choose all blue in ME1 and all red in ME2 as players have made both choices in both games. Where the scale tips should be because the player wanted it that way - not because BW tells you to. Shep has the option to agree or disagree with TIM; nowhere in there did BW say Shep had/has to. It wouldn't be a choice then. Though my renegade Shep is "business as usual, I didn't approach all situations like that; therefore, neither did Shep - same could be said for a Paragon Shep. If good people make bad choices, then shouldn't bad people be able to make good choices?

Picking Renegade answers are just as hard as Paragon ones because each choice could have a negative consequence (What to do with the Collector Base); however, the "wrong" (Renegade) choice, may have a positive consequence. It's not all blue and red as there are some shades of purple, too.

[bigSarg]

I have to disagree with the OP, I always run my Shep with equal parts paragon/renegade decisions, I go with which ever makes the most sense or how I would react in the same situation, and I have had no trouble getting through the SM with everyone surviving. Basically I take the Paragon choices when dealing with squad issues and the renegade choices when dealing with none squad issues/members, depending on the mission or who I'm interacting with, during Samara's LQ while talking to the woman in the apartment I take the paragon choice direction, but when dealing with the merc during Thanes recruitment mission I take the renegade route and push him out the window, it just all depends on the situation and I've never felt forced to take one route over the other to ge the job done in a favorable way.

[Relix28]

Well, there basically 2 options to deal with this flawed system.


a) Mod your save file at the bigining of the game and give yourself full paragon and renagade meters.

Use one of the infinite paragon/renegade exploits in the game, till' meters are full.

After you have maxed out your meters, you can role-play however you like without the stupid limitations that don't even make much sense.
I guess BioWare wanted you to stick to a certain personality type throughout the game, but it doesn't work all that well overall imo. As OP already said, just because you think it's better to destroy the geth and hand over the Collector base to Cerberus, it doesn't mean you want to be an all around douchebag when it comes to other things. And it works the other way too. Being a full paragon requires you to be a self-righteous judgemental dick on Mordin's loayalty mission (the coversation about the dead female krogan).
Imo they should ditch the whole system or reinvent it in a way that makes sense, or at least not penalize the player for role-playing a character in a way they see fit.

[jamesp81]

If you are careful about when you visit various locations, you can pretty easily talk everyone down in the confrontations.

[Cowboy_christo]

Why wouldnt you want to shoot Conrad in the foot? even if id play a paragon id choose that option.

[Flashlegend]

Cowboy_christo wrote...

Why wouldnt you want to shoot Conrad in the foot? even if id play a paragon id choose that option.

Well, if you don't do that and ask him what he was doing, you get
another side mission to complete. Also, if you shoot him in the foot
I'mpretty sure he dies in a car accident(you hear this on the news while
walking around on illium) and I'm sure everyone wants to see him in 3.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 14 juin 2011 - 07:38 .

[Xalen]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just saying, a lot of the renegade options are extremely rude with no reason for being rude. I want to get the job done, no matter what the cost. That doesn't mean I have to be impolite.

^ This is one of my main problems with the morality system

The other being that the game recognizes only the action, but not the rationale behind it. Why doing X gives you paragon points? Because Bioware said so. Even if doing X fits very well in "get the job done" morality ("Concentrate on the Sovereign" is a spectacular example of this, imo). Really, I can think of a "Renegade" reasons for most "Paragon" choices, but the game will still treat me like paragon for that. 

Cowboy_christo wrote...

Why wouldnt you want to shoot Conrad in the foot? even if id play a paragon id choose that option.

idk, I found kicking him in the nuts more satisfying, but that's just me... 

Flashlegend wrote...

Well, if you don't do that and ask him what he was doing, you get
another side mission to complete. Also, if you shoot him in the foot
I'mpretty sure he dies in a car accident(you hear this on the news while
 walking around on illium) and I'm sure everyone wants to see him in 3.

Nope, you can still do his sidequest if you shoot him. Sidequest is blocked only if you pick any lower-right option after the initial dialogue.

Modifié par Xalen, 14 juin 2011 - 08:02 .

[Skirata129]

on the xbox 360, the infinite morality glitches are INCREDIBLY annoying to exploit. the one at the very beginning where you keep reloading Jacob's Cerberus revelation takes forever.

[SV Demond]

I always choose something to base my charecter on a renagade ofr paragon then do what I want

[Dave of Canada]

Skirata129 wrote...

on the xbox 360, the infinite morality glitches are INCREDIBLY annoying to exploit. the one at the very beginning where you keep reloading Jacob's Cerberus revelation takes forever.

If you have a USB and computer, you can simply mod the file.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 juin 2011 - 08:32 .