189 réponses à ce sujet

[ChristianSoldier]

Was shepard hit in the head or something?

[ObserverStatus]

i don't think that fighting and dieing are mutually exclusive.

[kreite]

I believe that he's expressing his opinion that the line there spoken was cheesy/stupid

Why he's posted it here at all I know not

[Warheadz]

I presume that's a line from a demo or a trailer or sumthin'.

And what Sheppy means by that line is that unless we fight against the Reapers, an inevitable doom awaits and they will all die. Sure it's slightly macho, but it ain't stupid enough to make a thread about.

[Kadzin]

Lets evaluate.
Reapers arrived, your choices:
1. Fight and have a chance for survival
2. Do not fight, and die

Yes I think those are mutually exclusive

[ObserverStatus]

Kadzin wrote...

Lets evaluate.
Reapers arrived, your choices:
1. Fight and have a chance for survival
2. Do not fight, and die

Yes I think those are mutually exclusive

if they fight for survival without a plan outside of attacking the reapers head-on they will both fight AND die, they are not mutually exclusive.

[Kusy]

And here you are guys, taking ChristianSoldier's toppic seriously...

[ObserverStatus]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

And here you are guys, taking ChristianSoldier's toppic seriously...

I don't remember who, but one of the moderators said that we're drawn to troll threads like flies to a corpse.

[DarkSeraphym]

bobobo878 wrote...

Kadzin wrote...

Lets evaluate.
Reapers arrived, your choices:
1. Fight and have a chance for survival
2. Do not fight, and die

Yes I think those are mutually exclusive

if they fight for survival without a plan outside of attacking the reapers head-on they will both fight AND die, they are not mutually exclusive.

To be fair, that is not necessarily true. Historically speaking, unplanned/uncoordinated guerrila-style attacks were particularly effective in the American Revolutionary War and the Vietnam War, both of which were fought against militaries that had been considered "invincible" at the time.

Of course, coordinated and well-thought out strategies tend to be the deciding factor in a large list of battles and wars. However, all I'm saying is that simply because someone opts to fight a dominating presence head-on without any real coordination or planning does not suggest that they will automatically fail. Highly unlikely they would succeed, but as i've pointed out it is not something that is by any means unheard of.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 juin 2011 - 10:46 .

[Kadzin]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Kadzin wrote...

Lets evaluate.
Reapers arrived, your choices:
1. Fight and have a chance for survival
2. Do not fight, and die

Yes I think those are mutually exclusive

if they fight for survival without a plan outside of attacking the reapers head-on they will both fight AND die, they are not mutually exclusive.

To be fair, that is not necessarily true. Historically speaking, unplanned/uncoordinated guerrila-style attacks were particularly effective in the American Revolutionary War and the Vietnam War, both of which were fought against militaries that had been considered "invincible" at the time.

Of course, coordinated and well-thought out strategies tend to be the deciding factor in a large list of battles and wars. However, all I'm saying is that simply because someone opts to fight a dominating presence head-on without any real coordination or planning does not suggest that they will automatically fail. Highly unlikely they would succeed, but as i've pointed out it is not something that is by any means unheard of.

bobobo878 you're reading too much into a one liner that is usually thrown out to raise morale, not establish a viable option for the war.

[Hennex]

I'm calling it:  it was a renegade quote.

[keboo]

It sounds cheesy everytime I listen to it.

[Shepard Lives]

Yeah, that one liner was painfully dumb. Whatcha going to do about it.

[Pepper4]

It's called a trailer, my friend.

[Legion_Geth]

The line was only their so that it would sound cool, which it didn't.

[ObserverStatus]

DarkSeraphym wrote...
To be fair, that is not necessarily true. Historically speaking, unplanned/uncoordinated guerrila-style attacks were particularly effective in the American Revolutionary War and the Vietnam War, both of which were fought against militaries that had been considered "invincible" at the time.
Of course, coordinated and well-thought out strategies tend to be the deciding factor in a large list of battles and wars. However, all I'm saying is that simply because someone opts to fight a dominating presence head-on without any real coordination or planning does not suggest that they will automatically fail. Highly unlikely they would succeed, but as i've pointed out it is not something that is by any means unheard of.

You have a point, but the metaphor isn't perfect.  For example,  the vietnam war was a limited war.  the united states could have easily won by cauterizing the country with nuclear nuclear weapons, but this would defeated our purposes of being there.  Reapers are not coming to win hearts and minds, and will not be limited in such a manner. Sure, they may want to spare as many humans as they can so they can build more reapers, but ultimately they will kill as many as it takes to win.  Another difference is, while the americans and brittish had technological superiority over their adversaries, they were still not immune to gunshot.  Hit and run tactics won't work on an adversary that can shrug off the "hit".  Finally, guerilla warfare usually involves ambushes and sneaking around.  Unfortunately, you can't sneak up on reapers in space.  Not even the normandy could hide from their minions, the collectors, and most of the fleet shepard assembles is probably not going to have any fancy stealth equipment.

Kadzin wrote...
bobobo878 you're reading too much into a one
liner that is usually thrown out to raise morale, not establish a viable
option for the war.

I'm critiquing the one liner, not the game.

Modifié par bobobo878, 14 juin 2011 - 10:59 .

[LGTX]

Yes because the rest of the trailer had SUCH a serious vibe to it. No rock music or solely action sequences or anything.

[Icinix]

No, no. You heard him all wrong.
He actually said - "Wheat fry or with rind? That and the lamb."
In response to what the plan for dinner was. I thought it was obvious.

[JKoopman]

???: "Shepard, we need a plan to fight the Reapers!"
Shepard: "We fight or we die, that's the plan!"
???: "Yeah, I just said that we're fighting them. But we need a PLAN to fight them."
Shepard: "We fight them. That's the plan."
???: "...How did you get to be a Commander, again?"

[DarkSeraphym]

bobobo878 wrote...

You have a point, but the metaphor isn't perfect.  For example,  the vietnam war was a limited war.  the united states could have easily won by cauterizing the country with nuclear nuclear weapons, but this would defeated our purposes of being there.  Reapers are not coming to win hearts and minds, and will not be limited in such a manner. Sure, they may want to spare as many humans as they can so they can build more reapers, but ultimately they will kill as many as it takes to win.  Another difference is, while the americans and brittish had technological superiority over their adversaries, they were still not immune to gunshot.  Hit and run tactics won't work on an adversary that can shrug off the "hit".  Finally, guerilla warfare usually involves ambushes and sneaking around.  Unfortunately, you can't sneak up on reapers in space.  Not even the normandy could hide from their minions, the collectors, and most of the fleet shepard assembles is probably not going to have any fancy stealth equipment

I'm well aware of the differences when it comes to the analogical reasoning. It was not my goal to say they were in some fashion the same. It was my goal to point out that uncoordinated attacks have worked on enemies on the past. Whether or not they would work on the Reapers remains to be seen, but I think it is at least worth considering. Frontal assauts have proven to be ineffective as of Mass Effect, so I think it is well within the realm of possibility that hit and run style tactics could be used on the Reapers in Mass Effect 3.

Aside from that, one of the most important aspects that goes into guerilla warfare is taking advantage of the ignorance of your opponent when it comes to your resources and environment. In Vietnam, the United States was not adept at fighting against men that were hidden in heavy brush and tunnels in the ground. In Colonial America, the British had trouble fighting against American "pioneers" that new the resources and landscape avaiable to them more readily than the British did. At least one Reaper has fallen prey to this already, the Derelict Reaper that was struck down by the Klendagon weapon. My guess is that had that Reaper known such a weapon existed as a resource to whatever species had it, it probably would not have been destroyed.

[DarkSeraphym]

bobobo878 wrote...

You have a point, but the metaphor isn't perfect.  For example,  the vietnam war was a limited war.  the united states could have easily won by cauterizing the country with nuclear nuclear weapons, but this would defeated our purposes of being there.  Reapers are not coming to win hearts and minds, and will not be limited in such a manner. Sure, they may want to spare as many humans as they can so they can build more reapers, but ultimately they will kill as many as it takes to win.  Another difference is, while the americans and brittish had technological superiority over their adversaries, they were still not immune to gunshot.  Hit and run tactics won't work on an adversary that can shrug off the "hit".  Finally, guerilla warfare usually involves ambushes and sneaking around.  Unfortunately, you can't sneak up on reapers in space.  Not even the normandy could hide from their minions, the collectors, and most of the fleet shepard assembles is probably not going to have any fancy stealth equipment

I'm well aware of the differences when it comes to the analogical reasoning. It was not my goal to say they were in some fashion the same. It was my goal to point out that uncoordinated attacks have worked on enemies on the past. Whether or not they would work on the Reapers remains to be seen, but I think it is at least worth considering. Frontal assauts have proven to be ineffective as of Mass Effect, so I think it is well within the realm of possibility that hit and run style tactics could be used on the Reapers in Mass Effect 3. Harbinger certainly did not appear to be well equipped for the ambush on the Collector Base and Shepard was successful in commanding your allies in the Suicide Mission through the Collector Base without the tactical knowledge to coordinate and plan the attack before arriving.

Aside from that, one of the most important aspects that goes into guerilla warfare is taking advantage of the ignorance of your opponent when it comes to your resources and environment. In Vietnam, the United States was not adept at fighting against men that were hidden in heavy brush and tunnels in the ground. In Colonial America, the British had trouble fighting against American "pioneers" that knew the resources and landscape avaiable to them more readily than the British did. At least one Reaper has fallen prey to this already, the Derelict Reaper that was struck down by the Klendagon weapon. My guess is that had that Reaper known such a weapon existed as a resource to whatever species had it, it probably would not have been destroyed.

I have a feeling that Shepard is going to be doing a lot of improvising on worlds that have been attacked by Reapers until he has the resources necessary to fight the Reapers off of Earth. I'm not suggesting at all that we will see guerilla warfare in Mass Effect 3, I merely took that as an example because it was the most effective form of uncoordinated warfare that I coud think of. However, I do think we will see a lot of Shepard kind of making up his attacks as he goes along.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 juin 2011 - 11:26 .

[True Zarken]

Icinix wrote...

No, no. You heard him all wrong.
He actually said - "Wheat fry or with rind? That and the lamb."
In response to what the plan for dinner was. I thought it was obvious.

[Kadzin]

bobobo878 wrote...

Kadzin wrote...
bobobo878 you're reading too much into a one
liner that is usually thrown out to raise morale, not establish a viable
option for the war.

I'm critiquing the one liner, not the game.

It's a one liner, from a trailer, from a game that is 9 months from release, not much room for criticism imo.

[Psearo]

It could have been a lot worse....
"If we stay the course, we are dead, WE ARE ALL DEAD!"