368 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

JoHnDoE14 wrote...

It's only juveline to demand of BioWare to cater to all our whims by enabling EVERYONE to romance EVERYONE. Even worse, this is implicating that the only reason of all relationships, is pleasure and not something deeper (at least on what concerns the story and the main protagonist).

Explain what you mean by this, so I don't have to read it as "homosexual relationships are mostly about pleasure", please. I don't want to read it that way, cause I don't think that's what you mean, but that's the only way I can read it atm. I am aware it's me being an idiot, so please, explain to me =)

[Selphie12]

I wouldn't want an all bi cast. Even Gaider said once that it's not the preferable solution to the romances. It's not only unlikely (Note I do not say impossible) to find 4 people in the same room that are bi but it kind of breaks the character for me. The characters should stand on their own back story, if being bi or gay is part of that, that's fine, but making everyone bi "Just cos" isn't a good reason.
There should be a good mix of sexualities in the party without going OTT.
And if that upsets anyone, remember, there are always mods. There are dozens of mods all over the internet making alistair and morrigan gay options. To me this makes more sense cos it doesn't add the "just cos" reasoning to the game as a whole and anyone who wants it badly enough can choose to add it.

[Chuvvy]

The only problem I have with the bi thing in DA2 is that everyone is bi. That's not realistic. I'd rather some be bi some be straight and some be gay. The way I see it is that Anders is gay, Merrill is straight. Fenris is straight and Isabela is bi.

[Valcutio]

The terrible romances and the cry-baby male companions that constantly hit on your male character are included in the bad choices that were made in DA2.

If Bioware has a brain in their head they won't cave in to the politically correct BS that helped ruin one of the greatest game series. It's one thing to want representation - it's another to ruin a game for everyone by making everyone gay and unbelievable.

I'm not speaking just for myself. I have female friends who hated the male romance options in DA2 because (according to them) they hated the idea that the guys find them just as attractive as they would another guy. I don't blame them, do you?

[fchopin]

Slidell505 wrote...

The only problem I have with the bi thing in DA2 is that everyone is bi. That's not realistic. I'd rather some be bi some be straight and some be gay. The way I see it is that Anders is gay, Merrill is straight. Fenris is straight and Isabela is bi.

Agree, i found most companions and romance options in DA2 completely moronic. First time i played a Bioware game where i wanted nothing to do with the companions.
 
The DAO way was almost perfect.

[ScotGaymer]

Valcutio wrote...

The terrible romances and the cry-baby male companions that constantly hit on your male character are included in the bad choices that were made in DA2.

If Bioware has a brain in their head they won't cave in to the politically correct BS that helped ruin one of the greatest game series. It's one thing to want representation - it's another to ruin a game for everyone by making everyone gay and unbelievable.

I'm not speaking just for myself. I have female friends who hated the male romance options in DA2 because (according to them) they hated the idea that the guys find them just as attractive as they would another guy. I don't blame them, do you?

I don't disagree with you but I am taking exception to how you put this.

Being bisexual does not equal Gay.

Just putting that out there because a lot of people seem to think that bi is just gay people who are kidding on or something.

Also I wonder If you have considered/realised that there is actually LESS diverse representation in DA2 for alternative sexualities than in DAO and its DLC . In DA2 outside of the four LI companions can you name any notable NPCs that are gay or bisexual?
I can't.
Whereas in DAO they have the 2 bi companions, and when asked are there any gay/bi notable NPCs Wade and Herren who are both gay and a couple immediately jump to mind. And they aren't the only gay/bi NPCs in the game either.

[LobselVith8]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Immersion, personality characters and story are very important for a lot and I do not see how their concerns would be less important than gay people.[/i]

This is not about 'gay people' vs 'people who value character.' That's an utterly disingenuous way to phrase the conversation.

Unless of course if it comes to politics.

Including same-sex romances is a sociopolitical comment. There's no getting around it.

For all the faults I would lay at the feet of Dragon Age 2, I don't see bisexual characters as one of them. I didn't see the problem with providing all players the option to pursue a romance with a character he or she may favor. Torchwood had a cast of bisexual characters, so it's not like it hasn't been done before.

[blaidfiste]

I'm fine as long as the s/s relationship isn't thrown at me especially when I didn't initiate it. That way, I can keep a character's sexuality out of the game if I choose to. For the most part, Bioware handles this well. Dunno what they were thinking with Anders.

[Xewaka]

blaidfiste wrote...
I'm fine as long as the s/s relationship isn't thrown at me especially when I didn't initiate it. That way, I can keep a character's sexuality out of the game if I choose to. For the most part, Bioware handles this well. Dunno what they were thinking with Anders.

They were thinking "Why it must always be the PC who takes the first step in a relationship in our games? Why not try have a companion do so?"

[ScotGaymer]

Also the whole thing with Anders isnt actually what most people think it is.

First of all it IS player initiated; it just catches most people by surprise because it comes from a "nice" option not a flirt option. And the paraphrase is a bit miss leading.
And the choices you can make on it are bugged. One positive, One negative, and another negative really ought to be Positive, Non Commital/Let Down Easy, and Negative.
Picking the middle "negative" option has no effect except to "end" any romance with Anders.

Its a combination of factors including player stupidity/player lack of attention that leads to the awkward "I want into your pants" moment with Anders.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

I say, we need more sexual choices. Where's the S&M? Pooping in one's mouth? Peeing? Dwarf love? Do we support choice or not!? Where are the overly obese companions as well?!

Anyways, there was some...I think...sarcasm in the above.

While I'm totally fine with gay/bi-sexual people and in the real world am fully in support of them having the same rights as anyone else, I do find it a bit strange that video games are becoming political vehicles for social issues. But, that's the Bioware dev's decision, as they're the ones making the game. If they want everyone in Thedas to be bisexual, well, so be it. I think it's beyond silly, because it's a slippery slope with no bottom, which is why the very idea that people get up in arms over real life social issues in a video game is downright silly to me.

I'm not sure why a medium that lets us basically play the part of a psychotic murderer slaughtering hundreds, sometimes thousands of sentient beings, mainly to earn a buck or two, is really the place to be extolling the virtues of fairness in sexual relationships.  But, Bioware seems to think so, and they're the one's making the games.

*shrug*

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 20 juin 2011 - 01:57 .

[BroBear Berbil]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...


While I'm totally fine with gay/bi-sexual people and in the real world am fully in support of them having the same rights as anyone else, I do find it a bit strange that video games are becoming political vehicles for social issues. But, that's the Bioware dev's decision, as they're the ones making the game. If they want everyone in Thedas to be bisexual, well, so be it. I think it's beyond silly, because it's a slippery slope with no bottom, which is why the very idea that people get up in arms over real life social issues in a video game is downright silly to me.

Most games seem to steer clear of this issue in particular but then again most games don't do romance. There's plenty of social commentary on different issues in other games that tend to be pretty one-sided but, thankfully, it's usually done in humorous ways.

Like you I find the idea that every member of your group happens to be bisexual is silly. I find it even more silly that a character's backstory would change to suit your character. By the end of DA2 I didn't know who Anders was anymore. I mean, between the Justice thing and then suddenly being gay but then not being gay if you played a female.

I disagree with the OP's idea of progress. Homogenized romance options and subjective companions is not progress. How about BioWare make a purely homosexual character that is extremely well done like Arcade Gannon - now THAT would be progress for same-sex romances if that's what you're after.

p.s. Stop making romances achievements.

Modifié par OnionXI, 20 juin 2011 - 07:25 .

[IAmTheMP]

God, this whole Anders thing...  <_< Anders making the first move with my male Hawke was something new and unique.  I loved that I didn't have to play the caveman, trudging out, bashing my love-interest over the head and dragging him back to my cave.  You straight-only players aren't stuck with that, and it's frustrating that some of you want to take it away from others just because you don't want to see it.

OnionXI wrote...

Like you I find the idea that every member of your group happens to be bisexual is silly. I find it even more silly that a character's backstory would change to suit your character. By the end of DA2 I didn't know who Anders was anymore. I mean, between the Justice thing and then suddenly being gay but then not being gay if you played a female.

I disagree with the OP's idea of progress. Homogenized romance options and subjective companions is not progress. How about BioWare make a purely homosexual character that is extremely well done like Arcade Gannon - now THAT would be progress for same-sex romances if that's what you're after.

Because that's just one homosexual character to choose from.  Don't like him?  Too bad, 'cause that's all there is. Meanwhile there are half a dozen straight characters for everyone else.

If Anders and Fenris weren't both interested in my male Hawke, with Anders winning him and Fenris being jealous, my Hawke's story would have been lacking.  It made his story.
Alternately, during my 3rd playthrough Fenris was completely devoted to my female Hawke while Anders was jealous, and made for an entirely new story.
Why is giving players more choices "silly"?

The BW team even said there's no shortage of fans who enjoy same-sex pairings, so why not open the door for everyone?  At worst, it's a gimmick to lure fangirls/boys in with what we crave.  At best, it's an attempt not to leave anyone out. 

[ScotGaymer]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

While I'm totally fine with gay/bi-sexual people and in the real world am fully in support of them having the same rights as anyone else, I do find it a bit strange that video games are becoming political vehicles for social issues. But, that's the Bioware dev's decision, as they're the ones making the game. If they want everyone in Thedas to be bisexual, well, so be it. I think it's beyond silly, because it's a slippery slope with no bottom, which is why the very idea that people get up in arms over real life social issues in a video game is downright silly to me.

You clearly have no idea what you are on about.

Firstly as I said it isnt EVERYONE who is gay or bi. It is 4 of 8 COMPANION characters are bisexual, the others are straight.
Elsewhere in the world of Thedas, in in and around Kirkwall there are LESS gay and bisexual NPCs cutting about than there was in DAO.

This is a blatantly idiotic statement to make, because it simply is not true. EVERYONE is not bisexual.

I agree with the 4 out of 5 LIs being bisexual is a little unrealistic; but I understand why the decision was made to open them all up.
Personally I would have preferred one totally gay character, one totally straight character, and two bisexual characters, considering studies show that the vast majority of people are in actual fact "bisexual" to some degree this would be more realistic especially in the more accepting world of Thedas.

EDIT:
The idea is that this is something called a ROLE PLAYING GAME, so that you roleplay your Hawke how you please; which is why they opened up the romances so that you can roleplay in different ways.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 20 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[Aradace]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

JoHnDoE14 wrote...

It's only juveline to demand of BioWare to cater to all our whims by enabling EVERYONE to romance EVERYONE. Even worse, this is implicating that the only reason of all relationships, is pleasure and not something deeper (at least on what concerns the story and the main protagonist).

Explain what you mean by this, so I don't have to read it as "homosexual relationships are mostly about pleasure", please. I don't want to read it that way, cause I don't think that's what you mean, but that's the only way I can read it atm. I am aware it's me being an idiot, so please, explain to me =)

I think he means for it to be a more "realistic" approach in DA3.  Instead of "everyone being able to romance everyone regardless of gender",  have it so that specific LI's (new and/or old) swing one way or the other or perhaps have one or two or whatnot that swing both ways.  It's the same "gripe" that I have.  It's not the "bisexual" aspect that bothers me really, it's the fact that ALL of them are bisexual (except for Sebastian which really doesnt count and neither does flirting with Varric or Avaline because it doesnt lead anywhere.)

Can BioWare really sit there and tell me that "Everyone" in Thedas is Bisexual?  Orlesians and Antivans, sure, I can see that because it's already been pretty much presented as such in Origins.  But "everyone" else in Thedas?  That's a bit of a stretch for me.

[Sutekh]

Aradace wrote...
Can BioWare really sit there and tell me that "Everyone" in Thedas is Bisexual?  Orlesians and Antivans, sure, I can see that because it's already been pretty much presented as such in Origins.  But "everyone" else in Thedas?  That's a bit of a stretch for me.

First, not everyone in Thedas is presented as bisexual. As has been pointed above, there are in fact less "bisexuals" in DA2 than DAO. 4 out of 5 LIs (i.e. special people) might be bisexual depending on how you consider things. 

Second, what does nationality have to do with sexual orientation? Sexual behavior maybe, since different cultures means different approaches, but orientation?

Orlesians and Antivans have apparently a more casual approach to sex than Fereldans. Specifically Fereldans. We don't know anything about Dalish, Rivaini, Anders (as in born in the Anderfelds) Circle Mages turned apostates, Tevinter slaves, or Free Marchers in general. And that's regardless of sexual orientation. We also learn in Origins that Fereldans don't care about sexual orientation, as evidenced in the Human Noble origin. Or do you mean that bisexual = casual approach to sex?

Third, every human women in Thedas have perfect D-cup boobies. The vast majority of men are physically fit. All four/five LIs are pleasing to the eye. Nothing wrong with that in itself, I know why it is so, but that's pretty irrealistic to me. Yet, nobody complains. Why?

((edited because of messed up quotes))

Modifié par Sutekh, 20 juin 2011 - 03:39 .

[MinotaurWarrior]

I've said this before, but I'm getting the impression that many people in this thread are, understandably, skipping to the last page, so I'll say it again: most of your LIs aren't bi in DA][, their sexuality changes based on the PCs gender, and this is far from the most unrealistic thing in the game. Your family's ethnicity changes based on your choices in chargen, implying a rather remarkable change in history far more substantial than a change in orientation. If your character is dark-skinned, your family presumably came from Rivain, and somehow managed to preserve their ethnic traits over several generations. Why were they in Kirkwall to begin with? Did they lose their home to the Qunari invasion, centuries ago? Were your grandparents, in addition to disliking mages, racist, and insisted on keeping their bloodline pure? If papa Hawke was also Riviani, why was he in the south? Did he escape from Kont-Aar? If he was from the free parts of Rivain, why did he leave a place where mages are reveared for a place where they are locked up in towers? Compare those questions to, "while a slave, presumably not allowed to have sex, did Fenris dream of dudes or chicks?" and, "was Merill more nervous around men, or women?"

Also, consider that, regardless of your personality, appearance, class, or stats, everyone is attracted to you. Fenris doesn't care if you're a mage. Merrill likes kind diplomats, snarky smart aleks, and agressive hardasses all equally well. Anders is fine with weak-willed, hard-bodied warriors, cunning and agile rogues, and any other sort of character you make. Create the ugliest Hawke you can in chargen, and everyone will love you. That's pretty unrealistic too.

And, for the strange fact that, in both DA:O and DA][, heterosexuals are underrepresented in the adventuring population (iirc, around 90% of people are straight irl. Less than 90% of your party members are straight) consider that elves and dwarves are both dying races in Thedas, but both races make contributions to your adventuring party in both games. Adventuring parties aren't representative samples of the general population.

And to say something original:

Sutekh wrote...
Second, what does nationality have to do with sexual orientation? Sexual behavior maybe, since different cultures means different approaches, but orientation?

To be fair, apparent sexual orientation could change based on nationality, and there's no real way to determine a videogame character's sexuality other than their sexual behaviour. A lot of Americans have pretended not to be gay, for example, and many classical Greeks pretended to enjoy pederasty. If those Americans or Greeks were made into videogame characters, I'd just assume they were straight and gay, respectively.

[Sutekh]

MinotaurWarrior wrote...
And to say something original:

Sutekh wrote...
Second, what does nationality have to do with sexual orientation? Sexual behavior maybe, since different cultures means different approaches, but orientation?

To be fair, apparent sexual orientation could change based on nationality, and there's no real way to determine a videogame character's sexuality other than their sexual behaviour.

I understand what you're saying, but it's sexual behavior, not orientation. Two very distinct things. One is objective (orientation), the other subjective (behavior). People here don't complain about "everyone" being so open about their sexuality, so ready to act on it without question. Thedas is non-repressive, so "everyone" shouldn't have problems with that. Plus, that would be an entirely different debate. They complain about "everyone" being bisexual.

Plus, I really don't like the underlying idea that there are more bisexuals in Antiva "because Antivans are more sexually opened and overly more enclined to casual sex". The only Antivan familiar enough is Zevran, who is self-admittedly promiscuous. The only Orlesian is Leliana, whose profession implied seduction. That's not only painting whole nations from two individuals, but also suggesting that bisexual = promiscuous, which is a confusion that I've seen made way too often (and coming in this case from a confused syllogism). There's nothing wrong with promiscuity, but it has nothing to do with orientation.

All of this being a moot point anyway, because I happen to agree with the rest of your post

[MinotaurWarrior]

Sutekh wrote...

Plus, I really don't like the underlying idea that there are more bisexuals in Antiva "because Antivans are more sexually opened and overly more enclined to casual sex". The only Antivan familiar enough is Zevran, who is self-admittedly promiscuous. The only Orlesian is Leliana, whose profession implied seduction. That's not only painting whole nations from two individuals, but also suggesting that bisexual = promiscuous, which is a confusion that I've seen made way too often (and coming in this case from a confused syllogism). There's nothing wrong with promiscuity, but it has nothing to do with orientation.

This is really quite off topic, but it is quite possible that in Antiva there would be far more people who have had sex with both men and women, and based off dialog from Lelliana and Zevran, it actually seems kinda likely, because, as a matter of their profession, both of them had to seduce both men and women. I doubt that the crows said to Zevran, "seduce this man to get into his bedchamber unguarded, kill him, steal the documents, then escape. Well, as long as you want to. I mean, if you're straight, I geuss you can just come up with another plan." The same principle was at work in Leliana's background. Fortunately, both of them appear to actually be bisexual (though still, they likely weren't always attracted to their targets), but it's very possible that a lot of strict homosexuals / heterosexuals in Antiva and Orlais may have been coerced into sexual relations with individuals of the gender they were not attracted to, more often than people in Ferelden, because both of these nations have societal istitutions that enforce such behavior, in addition to the standard medival brothels.

However, that doesn't change the fact that true sexual orientation doesn't vary depending on nationality, and that being bisexual doesn't make you promiscuous.

Modifié par MinotaurWarrior, 20 juin 2011 - 09:33 .

[Aradace]

Sutekh wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Can BioWare really sit there and tell me that "Everyone" in Thedas is Bisexual?  Orlesians and Antivans, sure, I can see that because it's already been pretty much presented as such in Origins.  But "everyone" else in Thedas?  That's a bit of a stretch for me.

First, not everyone in Thedas is presented as bisexual. As has been pointed above, there are in fact less "bisexuals" in DA2 than DAO. 4 out of 5 LIs (i.e. special people) might be bisexual depending on how you consider things. 

Second, what does nationality have to do with sexual orientation? Sexual behavior maybe, since different cultures means different approaches, but orientation?

Orlesians and Antivans have apparently a more casual approach to sex than Fereldans. Specifically Fereldans. We don't know anything about Dalish, Rivaini, Anders (as in born in the Anderfelds) Circle Mages turned apostates, Tevinter slaves, or Free Marchers in general. And that's regardless of sexual orientation. We also learn in Origins that Fereldans don't care about sexual orientation, as evidenced in the Human Noble origin. Or do you mean that bisexual = casual approach to sex?

Third, every human women in Thedas have perfect D-cup boobies. The vast majority of men are physically fit. All four/five LIs are pleasing to the eye. Nothing wrong with that in itself, I know why it is so, but that's pretty irrealistic to me. Yet, nobody complains. Why?

((edited because of messed up quotes))

Regardless, they still try and play it off as somehow all these bisexual folks somehow end up being in Hawke's party.  And as I said before, you cant count Avaline, Varric, Bethany/Carver, and/or anyone else that you can only flirt with and/or cant persue a relationship with at all.  In terms of actual romancable LIs, they are ALL bisexual.  So dont try and split hairs with me lol.  

If they can give a codex entry in game as to why this is the case, I'll drop it in it's entirety.  Otherwise, making all the actual romancable characters essentially swingers just seems like "fanservice" to me.  Oh well, at least Anders doesnt get rivalry points with me anymore when I give him the "Our relationship is strictly professional" response.  Thought that was kind of lame that I got rivalry points with him for essentially telling him that I didnt want him thinking of me like that.  

Same thing with Fenris.  Sorry that was a bit OT but back to my point.  I'd like to see either a codex entry as to why Hawke attracts so many Bisexual characters or a Dev's input on the matter that doesnt involve basically translating into "We're placating that particular community"

[nightlordv]

How about we have Bioware worry about making the next installment better in terms of plot, overall character development, stop re-using maps, no more waves, etc BEFORE we talk about relationship and sexuality issues?

[whykikyouwhy]

Aradace wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Can BioWare really sit there and tell me that "Everyone" in Thedas is Bisexual?  Orlesians and Antivans, sure, I can see that because it's already been pretty much presented as such in Origins.  But "everyone" else in Thedas?  That's a bit of a stretch for me.

First, not everyone in Thedas is presented as bisexual. As has been pointed above, there are in fact less "bisexuals" in DA2 than DAO. 4 out of 5 LIs (i.e. special people) might be bisexual depending on how you consider things. 

Second, what does nationality have to do with sexual orientation? Sexual behavior maybe, since different cultures means different approaches, but orientation?

Orlesians and Antivans have apparently a more casual approach to sex than Fereldans. Specifically Fereldans. We don't know anything about Dalish, Rivaini, Anders (as in born in the Anderfelds) Circle Mages turned apostates, Tevinter slaves, or Free Marchers in general. And that's regardless of sexual orientation. We also learn in Origins that Fereldans don't care about sexual orientation, as evidenced in the Human Noble origin. Or do you mean that bisexual = casual approach to sex?

Third, every human women in Thedas have perfect D-cup boobies. The vast majority of men are physically fit. All four/five LIs are pleasing to the eye. Nothing wrong with that in itself, I know why it is so, but that's pretty irrealistic to me. Yet, nobody complains. Why?

((edited because of messed up quotes))

Regardless, they still try and play it off as somehow all these bisexual folks somehow end up being in Hawke's party.  And as I said before, you cant count Avaline, Varric, Bethany/Carver, and/or anyone else that you can only flirt with and/or cant persue a relationship with at all.  In terms of actual romancable LIs, they are ALL bisexual.  So dont try and split hairs with me lol.  

If they can give a codex entry in game as to why this is the case, I'll drop it in it's entirety.  Otherwise, making all the actual romancable characters essentially swingers just seems like "fanservice" to me.  Oh well, at least Anders doesnt get rivalry points with me anymore when I give him the "Our relationship is strictly professional" response.  Thought that was kind of lame that I got rivalry points with him for essentially telling him that I didnt want him thinking of me like that.  

Same thing with Fenris.  Sorry that was a bit OT but back to my point.  I'd like to see either a codex entry as to why Hawke attracts so many Bisexual characters or a Dev's input on the matter that doesnt involve basically translating into "We're placating that particular community"

One of the moderators chimed in on another thread covering a similar topic, and I think it's a valid point to consider (see the top post, please, and then his follow-up a few posts later).

I just find myself in disagreement with the concept of "placating" with regard to the inclusion of LIs that are available to the player regardless of the PC's gender (and therefore, regardless of the that PC's proclivities). When romance is an option for the player, how is the dev team supposed to account for the varied player audience and all of their preferences or perspectives? Do they just offer one male LI and one female LI and make those heterosexual because that has been the 'standard' formula for most games? Bioware is taking as their stance that they want to be fair to as much of their fanbase as possible - that counts for folks that prefer sraight romances, and for folks that prefer gay.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 21 juin 2011 - 12:01 .

[Sutekh]

Aradace wrote...
Regardless, they still try and play it off as somehow all these bisexual folks somehow end up being in Hawke's party.  And as I said before, you cant count Avaline, Varric, Bethany/Carver, and/or anyone else that you can only flirt with and/or cant persue a relationship with at all.  In terms of actual romancable LIs, they are ALL bisexual.  So dont try and split hairs with me lol.  

Well, if you want to go that route... No. they aren't ALL bisexuals. You're meta-gaming. This has been debated again and again in this very thread, and others, so I won't redo the whole argumentation, but they're not all bisexuals. They are Hawkesexual, which is a can of worms in its own right.

Read MinotaurWarrior's post a couple of posts above, it's as good an explanation as any about what I mean.

[Pious_Augustus]

JohnEpler wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Good God, is this all you people care about? You just have to shove this "same-sex" crap into the mix every chance you get don't you? Are you not going to stop until every single character is bi/gay? This is getting ridiculous.

For many people, this is an incredibly important issue. Greater representation of same-sex romances in media is something they strive towards because, well, they currently don't have this representation. Unlike heterosexual folks, they can't watch a tv show, read a book or play a game and have a greater than 50% chance that they'll see a relationship or character that they can identify with in the same way that the rest of the population can.

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'. Those are game-specific considerations, and while they're certainly valid - they don't speak to larger social issues. This is not true of same-sex romance - there's a lot more going on there, and as such, it will remain a fairly significant topic of discussion on these (and other, I imagine) forums.

Which is a fancy way of saying, essentially - no one forced you into this thread. If you have something constructive to say, please do so! However, coming in and saying what amounts to 'another thread about being equally and fairly represented in media? Why do you guys care so much about being able to identify with characters and romances that represent you and your sexual orientation?' It's not a convincing argument, and comes across as rather overly hostile.

I've been playing Bioware games forever and there has been homosexual content since way back in the orginal Star Wars Kngihts of the Old Republic its always been there and I never cared until I recieved the negative points in Dragon Age II now the supporters of the system seem to point out you don't lose points but you do and I think that is the wrong way about putting in relationships that are looked down upon as is. It's not helping when you're forcing them in certain ways to get involved in this kind of content.

If homosexual content exisits...great I am all for it I think we should all have our choices in an RPG but i would prefer we are not forced to share a political point of view. Jade Empire has homosexual relationships all around and people really didn't start complaining until Dragon Age.

Other then that I am not going to comment further since I am restricted unless I support the process

[MinotaurWarrior]

Aradace wrote...

Otherwise, making all the actual romancable characters essentially swingers just seems like "fanservice" to me...  I'd like to see either a codex entry as to why Hawke attracts so many Bisexual characters or a Dev's input on the matter that doesnt involve basically translating into "We're placating that particular community"

elipses mine.

I don't think it's about placating people. I think it's about including as much content, making it available to the greatest number of people, with the least amount of effort. In DA:O, every player character had access to three romances. In DA][, every PC has access to four romances, without DLC. How did they do this? In the least resource intensive way possible, of course. They simply unlocked all romances for all sexes. I think that that's entirely reasonable.

And, as a side note, I don't think there's anything wrong with certain kinds of fanservice. Sandhal and Bodhan both show up in DA][ purely for fanservice, and the dragon fights in the bone pit are pretty much pure fanservice with no connection to the main plot. Fan service can be a service to the fans sometimes.

Pious_Augustus wrote...
I've been playing Bioware games
forever and there has been homosexual content since way back in the
orginal Star Wars Kngihts of the Old Republic its always been there and I
never cared until I recieved the negative points in Dragon Age II now
the supporters of the system seem to point out you don't lose points but
you do and I think that is the wrong way about putting in relationships
that are looked down upon as is. It's not helping when you're forcing
them in certain ways to get involved in this kind of content.

If
homosexual content exisits...great I am all for it I think we should all
have our choices in an RPG but i would prefer we are not forced to
share a political point of view. Jade Empire has homosexual
relationships all around and people really didn't start complaining
until Dragon Age.

Other then that I am not going to comment further since I am restricted unless I support the process

I just want to say, If I read your post right, I fully support your point of view on this topic. Unless a videogame is trying for a horror or grossout segment, or to inflame a player to get them emotionally invested against an antagonist, games should do their best to avoid making people uncomfortable. A fair amount of people are uncomfortable with unwanted flirting (that's what makes it unwanted), so I think BioWare should really put some effort into avoiding situations like the one with Anders in all future games.

One of the conversations I best remember from DA:O, was when Alistair asked my PC about his sexual history (his reaction when you say you're "very experienced" or whatever was just priceless). Perhaps in DA3 they could do something similar, but use it to determine your PCs sexuality. So, early on maybe someone is trying to set you up on a blind date or something, asks you which way you lean, and then the game just knows which people are allowed to initiate flirting with you. IDK, something like that would be a nice addition.