368 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

)

Sutekh wrote...

 ....You're meta-gaming. ....

Yes I am...I am a meta-gamer because the only time I truly "RP" is when Im playing "old school" D&D with pencil and paper.  Beyond that, Im a meta-gamer to my toes.  So "meta-gaming" is a weak arguement to use really.  Do you think I let Feynriel trapes off to Tevinter to master his abilities?  Hell no, I let his ass get possessed everytime now (After actually completing "Who Needs Rescuing" and thinking; "Why did I even bother?" lol) so that I can secure 6 more attribute points.  To me, those points are far more useful than a few meager xp I get "later" for a really....stupid...quest.

People try and use the term "meta-gaming" like it's some sort of "insult" or some other derogitory comment.  I've had this argument with another person a few months back and they eventually gave it up because I guess they felt they didnt want to "associate" with a "lowly metagamer" lol.

Sorry about that,  it's nothing personal against you it's just that every time someone uses the term "meta-gaming" it just sends me into a rant because it's like they expect "Everyone" to RP they're characters in a video game.  As I said before, the only time I "RP" is when Im playing old school D&D.  Beyond that, I soooooooo meta-game lol. 

MinotaurWarrior wrote...


elipses mine.

I don't think it's about placating people. I think it's about including as much content, making it available to the greatest number of people, with the least amount of effort. In DA:O, every player character had access to three romances. In DA][, every PC has access to four romances, without DLC. How did they do this? In the least resource intensive way possible, of course. They simply unlocked all romances for all sexes. I think that that's entirely reasonable.

And, as a side note, I don't think there's anything wrong with certain kinds of fanservice. Sandhal and Bodhan both show up in DA][ purely for fanservice, and the dragon fights in the bone pit are pretty much pure fanservice with no connection to the main plot. Fan service can be a service to the fans sometimes.

 

I see your point I suppose.  More the "fanservice" part than anything else.  Even though it's not actually like that, it still feels like they are just placating people.  Had they implemented it better (I.e. not being lazy and actually put effort into it instead of going the most "cost effective" way.) I wouldnt feel so strongly against it.  Maybe next time around they'll put more effort into something like this instead of taking the "cheap" way out.  (Cheap in the literal sense....HA!!! Cheap...."cents"....I made a punny :P)

Modifié par Aradace, 21 juin 2011 - 10:06 .

[KLUME777]

Aradace wrote...

Had they implemented it better (I.e. not being lazy and actually put effort into it instead of going the most "cost effective" way.) I wouldnt feel so strongly against it.  Maybe next time around they'll put more effort into something like this instead of taking the "cheap" way out.  (Cheap in the literal sense....HA!!! Cheap...."cents"....I made a punny )

I Lol'ed.

Modifié par KLUME777, 21 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Had they implemented it better (I.e. not being lazy and actually put effort into it instead of going the most "cost effective" way.) I wouldnt feel so strongly against it.  Maybe next time around they'll put more effort into something like this instead of taking the "cheap" way out.  (Cheap in the literal sense....HA!!! Cheap...."cents"....I made a punny )

I Lol'ed.

Usually takes me a few more hours to come up with a pun like that....Guess Im on a roll today already:whistle:

[Sutekh]

Aradace wrote...
Sorry about that,  it's nothing personal against you it's just that every time someone uses the term "meta-gaming" it just sends me into a rant because it's like they expect "Everyone" to RP they're characters in a video game.  As I said before, the only time I "RP" is when Im playing old school D&D.  Beyond that, I soooooooo meta-game lol.

Wasn't an insult. There's nothing wrong in meta-gaming, as long as [general] you don't pretend to be the paragon of RPer or something. I don't do it because it's not how my mind works, is all.

This said, if RPing isn't important to you in a CRPG, then why the hell do you care whether the setting is realistic? LIs sexual orientation doesn't substract to the number of attribute points you'll get, nor do they add to them. Plus it's a tiny aspect of the game. And since you admit to meta-gaming, then you can't fault the game for that. Your own approach of the game is the reason for the "unrealism" and the cheapness*, not the way it was written. What do you want them to put in a codex? "When you're standing outside the universes and mix them all together, those characters are bisexual because so and so"? It could work, but Douglas Addams is too dead right now to write such texts, and Terry Pratchett is a bit unavailable

*Edit: not saying your approach is a cheap one, referring to your calling the all bi LIs without explanation "cheap".

Modifié par Sutekh, 21 juin 2011 - 04:12 .

[PSUHammer]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

I say, we need more sexual choices. Where's the S&M? Pooping in one's mouth? Peeing? Dwarf love? Do we support choice or not!? Where are the overly obese companions as well?!

Anyways, there was some...I think...sarcasm in the above.

While I'm totally fine with gay/bi-sexual people and in the real world am fully in support of them having the same rights as anyone else, I do find it a bit strange that video games are becoming political vehicles for social issues. But, that's the Bioware dev's decision, as they're the ones making the game. If they want everyone in Thedas to be bisexual, well, so be it. I think it's beyond silly, because it's a slippery slope with no bottom, which is why the very idea that people get up in arms over real life social issues in a video game is downright silly to me.

I'm not sure why a medium that lets us basically play the part of a psychotic murderer slaughtering hundreds, sometimes thousands of sentient beings, mainly to earn a buck or two, is really the place to be extolling the virtues of fairness in sexual relationships.  But, Bioware seems to think so, and they're the one's making the games.

*shrug*

  I was going to make this very point.  It is quite ironic, indeed.

Tend to agree with the rest of your post.  I will say I am all about proper representation...but it would be a little more realistic if not every character was Bi.  Not sure what Bioware design decisions are shooting for there but I would guess they balanced the accessibility to SS romances vs. having a more real world type ratio of encounters.

For me, having everyone Bi is a little immersion breaking but there are other, larger, issues with DA2.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 21 juin 2011 - 04:57 .

[Aradace]

Sutekh wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Sorry about that,  it's nothing personal against you it's just that every time someone uses the term "meta-gaming" it just sends me into a rant because it's like they expect "Everyone" to RP they're characters in a video game.  As I said before, the only time I "RP" is when Im playing old school D&D.  Beyond that, I soooooooo meta-game lol.

Wasn't an insult. There's nothing wrong in meta-gaming, as long as [general] you don't pretend to be the paragon of RPer or something. I don't do it because it's not how my mind works, is all.

This said, if RPing isn't important to you in a CRPG, then why the hell do you care whether the setting is realistic? LIs sexual orientation doesn't substract to the number of attribute points you'll get, nor do they add to them. Plus it's a tiny aspect of the game. And since you admit to meta-gaming, then you can't fault the game for that. Your own approach of the game is the reason for the "unrealism" and the cheapness*, not the way it was written. What do you want them to put in a codex? "When you're standing outside the universes and mix them all together, those characters are bisexual because so and so"? It could work, but Douglas Addams is too dead right now to write such texts, and Terry Pratchett is a bit unavailable

*Edit: not saying your approach is a cheap one, referring to your calling the all bi LIs without explanation "cheap".

Just because I meta game and dont "rp" doesnt mean that I dont play the game for the story and/or would like to see some explanation as to why every LI seems to be "bisexual".  Believe it or not people can play a game like this SOLELY for the story and gameplay and not the "RP" aspect of "Roleplaying" a character and still want to see some sort of "realism" for lack of a better way of putting it.

The "cheap" comment was meant more as a pun than anything lol.

Modifié par Aradace, 21 juin 2011 - 05:29 .

[dujh]

i hope it goes back

[Chuvvy]

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

[Bryy_Miller]

If any game dev company bowed down to every group that didn't like something, no game would ever get made.

[Dragoonlordz]

Seems to me people are more interested in sex in games than story. These threads are a prime example of people wanting to screw whoever they want for whatever reasons they have regardless of actual background or persona of the characters themselves, if they want to stick their winkie in a character they will make up excuses as to why they deserve to be able to do so. Bioware should just make a dating sim game and be done with it as thats the feeling I get about what all these threads on this topic are after. Fictional romances taking precedent over actual story progression.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:00 .

[Harid]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Seems to me people are more interested in sex in games than story. These threads are a prime example of people wanting to screw whoever they want for whatever reasons they have regardless of actual background or persona of the characters themselves, if they want to stick their winkie in a character they will make up excuses as to why they deserve to be able to do so. Bioware should just make a dating sim game and be done with it as thats the feeling I get about what all these threads on this topic are after. Fictional romances taking precedent over actual story progression.

People seem increasingly happy about that occuring on these boards from what I've seen.  Look at the Mass Effect 3 Romance board.

Even on other boards I seen people care more about banging Alistair than being concerned on whether or not the sotry is any good.  I am expecting the Bioware Dating Sim any time now.

[MonkeyKaboom]

I just don't want the game to feel like I have to always be on guard of my every phallus and/or orifice.

[Bryy_Miller]

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

Yes. Having gay subplots in a genre that has tip-toed around the issue is progress.

Just like the breaking of ANY pointless taboo.

[Pasquale1234]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

I just don't want the game to feel like I have to always be on guard of my every phallus and/or orifice.

Gosh, how many do you have?

[Wusword77]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

Yes. Having gay subplots in a genre that has tip-toed around the issue is progress.

Just like the breaking of ANY pointless taboo.

Yeah it's progress, but it's shallow feeling progress.  Making everyone but Sebastian bisexual makes me feel their characters are shallow and it breaks the immersion of the game.  If you could convince the other characters to be interested in you, and they had a clear sexuality before I might be able to consider it something other then pandering.

I don't want Bioware to remove the feature, I just want them to do it better.  Do it in a way that doesn't make me feel like it's in the game just to shut a portion of the community up.

[Bryy_Miller]

Wusword77 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

Yes. Having gay subplots in a genre that has tip-toed around the issue is progress.

Just like the breaking of ANY pointless taboo.

Yeah it's progress, but it's shallow feeling progress.  Making everyone but Sebastian bisexual makes me feel their characters are shallow and it breaks the immersion of the game.  If you could convince the other characters to be interested in you, and they had a clear sexuality before I might be able to consider it something other then pandering.

I don't want Bioware to remove the feature, I just want them to do it better.  Do it in a way that doesn't make me feel like it's in the game just to shut a portion of the community up.

But what if BE - gasp - wanted to make everyone an LI option out of their own free will?

And convince others to like you? Is this just another Anders is hitting on me thread?

[Friera]

Well... I must say I love the fact that all the chara is bi in DA2.
I felt kinda "trapped" in DA:O because I hated Leliana, and to romance Morrigan I had to be a douchbag. So I felt kinda "forced" to gaymance Zevran (whom I grew to like..a lot..during the game. But at the beginning I was annoyed )

I simply want the option. If some homofobic guys feels "threatend" by this, serisously, grow up. If its reeally a big deal, for some, then maybe you can swich the bi on/of option on the pause or something.

For me, romance is a very important part of the DA universe, I want to romance whoever I like the most, regardless of my main characters gender. Not because of banging and "ohmgod they have sex", but because I love romance and to make my characters truly care for others...

Sigh.. I guess Im a girlygirl in this matter.

Modifié par Friera, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:10 .

[kingjezza]

Sections of this forum are way too obsessed with these in game romances, it's rather bizarre.

[Uccio]

^ its probably because deeper romances along with interaction makes the game more rpg. "Awesome" hack´n slash just doesn´t do that for many people. Personally if I want to spend time stacking bodies with superb moves I have tons of games for that, from DA I look for rpg.

Modifié par Ukki, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:18 .

[Kekkis]

Ukki wrote...

^ its probably because deeper romances along with interaction makes the game more rpg. "Awesome" hack´n slash just doesn´t do that for many people. Personally if I want to spend time stacking bodies with superb moves I have tons of games for that, from DA I look for rpg.

Actually I would like to see more Varrics and Avelines. They are cool without being some LI fanservices for everyone. LI:s should not be Hawkesexual either. Your favorite companion likes females and your char is a dude? You need working boobs next time you start a new game. Your char is a female and your favourite char is gay or female who likes males? You need beard next time etc.

[Wusword77]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

Yes. Having gay subplots in a genre that has tip-toed around the issue is progress.

Just like the breaking of ANY pointless taboo.

Yeah it's progress, but it's shallow feeling progress.  Making everyone but Sebastian bisexual makes me feel their characters are shallow and it breaks the immersion of the game.  If you could convince the other characters to be interested in you, and they had a clear sexuality before I might be able to consider it something other then pandering.

I don't want Bioware to remove the feature, I just want them to do it better.  Do it in a way that doesn't make me feel like it's in the game just to shut a portion of the community up.

But what if BE - gasp - wanted to make everyone an LI option out of their own free will?

And convince others to like you? Is this just another Anders is hitting on me thread?

You really think that changing all companions from having different sexual preference (Hetro, ******, and bisexual) in DA:O to everybody (but a DLC character) is bisexual in DA2 is anything less then pandering?  Please don't make me laugh.

Bioware took a step in the right direction with this, I'm not arguing that, but their implementation was very poor in my opinion.

[Uccio]

Kekkis, I do feel that not all characters can be bisexuals. It is just plain stupid to think that. Someone said in this forum that in the "old times" people were more open for choises. That is just utter bullcrap. Most of the people are (and have been) hetero, there is just no way around it. Then we have a percentage of bi and gay people but they are allways minority. This in my mind is how it should be represented in the game world too.

[Bryy_Miller]

Wusword77 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not sure making everyone bisexual is "progress" more like pandering.

Yes. Having gay subplots in a genre that has tip-toed around the issue is progress.

Just like the breaking of ANY pointless taboo.

Yeah it's progress, but it's shallow feeling progress.  Making everyone but Sebastian bisexual makes me feel their characters are shallow and it breaks the immersion of the game.  If you could convince the other characters to be interested in you, and they had a clear sexuality before I might be able to consider it something other then pandering.

I don't want Bioware to remove the feature, I just want them to do it better.  Do it in a way that doesn't make me feel like it's in the game just to shut a portion of the community up.

But what if BE - gasp - wanted to make everyone an LI option out of their own free will?

And convince others to like you? Is this just another Anders is hitting on me thread?

You really think that changing all companions from having different sexual preference (Hetro, ******, and bisexual) in DA:O to everybody (but a DLC character) is bisexual in DA2 is anything less then pandering?  Please don't make me laugh.

Bioware took a step in the right direction with this, I'm not arguing that, but their implementation was very poor in my opinion.

1) yes, and evidence shows they have tried to do this for a while.

2) agreed.

[bEVEsthda]

Wusword77 wrote...

You really think that changing all companions from having different sexual preference (Hetro, ******, and bisexual) in DA:O to everybody (but a DLC character) is bisexual in DA2 is anything less then pandering?  Please don't make me laugh.

Bioware took a step in the right direction with this, I'm not arguing that, but their implementation was very poor in my opinion.

Agree, and agree.

I don't have any hard data, as exact statistics, but the way I remember it, Bloodlines pretty much let you swing both ways all the time (?), but I don't remember any debate about the matter. You did have to navigate dialogues a lot more carefully and push the romantics much harder. And I think thicker layers like that is needed, if you're not going to stir up people who have some problems with this.

[billy the squid]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

You really think that changing all companions from having different sexual preference (Hetro, ******, and bisexual) in DA:O to everybody (but a DLC character) is bisexual in DA2 is anything less then pandering?  Please don't make me laugh.

Bioware took a step in the right direction with this, I'm not arguing that, but their implementation was very poor in my opinion.

Agree, and agree.

I don't have any hard data, as exact statistics, but the way I remember it, Bloodlines pretty much let you swing both ways all the time (?), but I don't remember any debate about the matter. You did have to navigate dialogues a lot more carefully and push the romantics much harder. And I think thicker layers like that is needed, if you're not going to stir up people who have some problems with this.

I don't think that a lot of the problems regarding sexual prefrences in the game derive from homophobia, although there will always be some, but as you said the poor implementation of the romance options. Remember, when some of the dialogue options in DAO with Zeveran lead to a relationship by accident, when one was trying to be friendly, rather than flirty, but it lead to something else.

Personally, I didn't mind that, as I saw Zev as more flirtacious in character considering his background as an assassin and the need to use other means to secure access to a target. But, when it applies to several companions where, at least I seemed to, stumble into semi romances by accident it becomes somewhat irritating, particularly when coupled with the dialogue system when I repeatedly said things I didn't want to.