368 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

RangerSG wrote...

The most believable relationship in the game was Aveline, because with all the PC and her had gone through, and the losses they'd shared, there was no way that would be a romance.

Curious, why do you feel that way? My current partner irl is someone who was there for me when I was in a pretty destructive relationship. We found a really strong friendship, where I helped him get over a gal he had been unable to get over for years. Then, some 3 years after these events, the friendship grew into something more. Now, I can't of course say our past love issues are at the same level as what happens in front of Hawke and Aveline at all, but there's still the part of two friends who are there for each other through terrible crap and then later...  things just happen.

Note, this is a matter of personal curiousity of your remark there, I'm not saying Aveline's dialogue was badly written. Quite on the contrary, I really really like Aveline.

RangerSG wrote...

I don't see that with Merrill, who *craves* acceptance given all that she's lost. The same thing goes with the sexuality. I think there are two relationships in the game that are bi just to make it easy on the player, and don't do the character justice at all.

Merrill's rivalmance didn't feel weird to me. Hawke takes on a very protective persona in that romance line, and even though Hawke may not agree with her, Hawke's always there for her to help her with her mistakes and her problems, always comforting and helping. At least, that's how my rivalmance played out, and it didn't feel odd at all.

Which two LIs are made an injustice by being bi? I take it one is Anders, since all his plot isn't given to female characters (which I do not support, btw) and you feel he should've been gay. But who is the other?

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 15 juin 2011 - 03:08 .

[In Exile]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...]ME3 is a tad of a different beast, since so many of the characters in your party are returning characters. In DA, the characters in your party tend to be people you didn't really know that much about (if at all), thus there is far less confusion of "wait, X is bisexual now?" to put you out of the game.

But I hope you're right! =)

I see you never wandered into a WTF, Anders? Thread.

[GiggleLooper]

In the real world not everybody is Bi, so to have this in DA2 for all NPC seemed unrealistic.
It's is worth having a mixture of gay, straight or bi as long as it makes for an interesting character. However making everyone bi just so I can develop a romance with any NPC I choose takes away from the challenge, and I think unrealistic.

Perhaps what could be done is making it more difficult for your PC to have a romance a NPC if you don't match their preferred list of qualities, be it you are a mage and they have a thing for rouges, or you are gay and they are straight. It would require a lot more convincing for them to accept you if you didn't tick all their boxes (proving you are worthy).

However there should still be NPCs who like one thing and one thing only, if that makes them interesting. Not everybody in the real world will change their mind or positions on their preferences, and I think in order to make a game world more convincing the same method should be applied.

[John Epler]

Agamo45 wrote...

Good God, is this all you people care about? You just have to shove this "same-sex" crap into the mix every chance you get don't you? Are you not going to stop until every single character is bi/gay? This is getting ridiculous.

For many people, this is an incredibly important issue. Greater representation of same-sex romances in media is something they strive towards because, well, they currently don't have this representation. Unlike heterosexual folks, they can't watch a tv show, read a book or play a game and have a greater than 50% chance that they'll see a relationship or character that they can identify with in the same way that the rest of the population can.

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'. Those are game-specific considerations, and while they're certainly valid - they don't speak to larger social issues. This is not true of same-sex romance - there's a lot more going on there, and as such, it will remain a fairly significant topic of discussion on these (and other, I imagine) forums.

Which is a fancy way of saying, essentially - no one forced you into this thread. If you have something constructive to say, please do so! However, coming in and saying what amounts to 'another thread about being equally and fairly represented in media? Why do you guys care so much about being able to identify with characters and romances that represent you and your sexual orientation?' It's not a convincing argument, and comes across as rather overly hostile.

[Zorba Desilijic Tiure]

JohnEpler wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Good God, is this all you people care about? You just have to shove this "same-sex" crap into the mix every chance you get don't you? Are you not going to stop until every single character is bi/gay? This is getting ridiculous.

For many people, this is an incredibly important issue. Greater representation of same-sex romances in media is something they strive towards because, well, they currently don't have this representation. Unlike heterosexual folks, they can't watch a tv show, read a book or play a game and have a greater than 50% chance that they'll see a relationship or character that they can identify with in the same way that the rest of the population can.

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'. Those are game-specific considerations, and while they're certainly valid - they don't speak to larger social issues. This is not true of same-sex romance - there's a lot more going on there, and as such, it will remain a fairly significant topic of discussion on these (and other, I imagine) forums.

Which is a fancy way of saying, essentially - no one forced you into this thread. If you have something constructive to say, please do so! However, coming in and saying what amounts to 'another thread about being equally and fairly represented in media? Why do you guys care so much about being able to identify with characters and romances that represent you and your sexual orientation?' It's not a convincing argument, and comes across as rather overly hostile.

I thought you were taking a vacation from the forums, Epler?

... must have found a good stress outlet for you to want to come back so soon.

[Rigeth]

I kinda get the general idea of why some people find it annoying that every character is bi, however by the end of the day it's still just a game. An immersive fantasy tale where everything can happen.
In that case the options are far to limited! We need necrophilia, bestiality, paedophilia and what not to appease to everyone. Also add a homophobic into the party, that'd be nice.

Having a ALL BI party isn't really that bad as a compromise in comparison to what they could have done to appease to the general public. I'd prefer that DA3s romances continue DA2s system. Mass effect is its own series with its own system. It's not like its hard to avoid them if you don't want them either. But alas, I do have one thing I am STRONGLY AGAINST! And what might that be? The triple heart Isabelas forced romance. 3 out of 3 options all hearts, what the duck?

[Siansonea]

JohnEpler wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...


Good God, is this all you people care about? You just have to shove this "same-sex" crap into the mix every chance you get don't you? Are you not going to stop until every single character is bi/gay? This is getting ridiculous.

For many people, this is an incredibly important issue. Greater representation of same-sex romances in media is something they strive towards because, well, they currently don't have this representation. Unlike heterosexual folks, they can't watch a tv show, read a book or play a game and have a greater than 50% chance that they'll see a relationship or character that they can identify with in the same way that the rest of the population can.


So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'. Those are game-specific considerations, and while they're certainly valid - they don't speak to larger social issues. This is not true of same-sex romance - there's a lot more going on there, and as such, it will remain a fairly significant topic of discussion on these (and other, I imagine) forums.


Which is a fancy way of saying, essentially - no one forced you into this thread. If you have something constructive to say, please do so! However, coming in and saying what amounts to 'another thread about being equally and fairly represented in media? Why do you guys care so much about being able to identify with characters and romances that represent you and your sexual orientation?' It's not a convincing argument, and comes across as rather overly hostile.

It's also worth noting that same-sex romance options in games are not solely for gay/lesbian/bisexual players. Many heterosexual players like to role-play Hawke/Shepard/whoever as someone other than themselves. And people like me (female, hetero) who do multiple playthroughs with every class like to differentiate our player characters as much as possible. So I have a straight female Hawke, a lesbian Hawke, a straight male Hawke, and a gay male Hawke in DA2, and I have lots of permutations in the Mass Effect games too. So this idea that BioWare is pandering to a special interest group is inherently flawed anyway, since everyone is able to pursue and enjoy these options.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 15 juin 2011 - 04:27 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Rigeth wrote...

But alas, I do have one thing I am STRONGLY AGAINST! And what might that be? The triple heart Isabelas forced romance. 3 out of 3 options all hearts, what the duck?

Um... where is this scene? I've been over DA2 with a fine-toothed comb for FAQ research and I've never seen this.

[Alucard of the dragon]

[quote]lobi wrote...

Choice choice choice SHUTUP!!111!!!. If you work in an office, mickey D or restauraunt. Hang at the beach, a ski lodge or am in the military. YOU WILL NOT get to sleep with whoever you want, whenever you want period. Because not everyone else is your sexuality, or even interested in you accept this.

Game world is a fantasy world true, but these are worlds constructed by humans, based, however loosly on our culture, history and mythology with the basics of human society at their core.
RPG lets us explore these worlds, not rule over them as a god, (not until final act anyway).

Most of the NPC in an RPG are idiosynchratic to the extreme, why would you want to have sex with them anyway? Go to a Pharmacist or family planning get some mouth dams and condoms and try to sex everyone you know irl, see what happens. Then you will find out why limited options make sense.

The Bisexual nature of Thedas is based on actual history, but even through history the tales of unrequited love are many, as are the tales of relationship disasters. The main option I see Missing in DA2 is the 'throw them out of the house when you realise your horrible mistake' option for act3.

Some NPC need to be totally straight and others totally gay because it would make the game more immersive, and some relationships need to be based on pre-existing conditions so that if you make a role choice thats it, no sex for you from NPC b or c  or EVER or win a single night. People metagaming just to have an in game sexual conquest with all NPC that have a cookie cutter sexuality need to go out and get laid irl, see a sex worker for gruds sake.
Sometimes I think your all a bunch of Leisure suit Larry's that would be happier playing Henti games I swear.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/alien.png[/smilie]) and about the henti (you meant hentai right?) then I agree that a lot of people would probably be happy to play that kind of game if it came out in the same quality as DAO and ME and WOW ( I mean length, story, ect)

[Rigeth]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rigeth wrote...

But alas, I do have one thing I am STRONGLY AGAINST! And what might that be? The triple heart Isabelas forced romance. 3 out of 3 options all hearts, what the duck?

Um... where is this scene? I've been over DA2 with a fine-toothed comb for FAQ research and I've never seen this.

My first playthrou I was playing as myself, I went throu the game and picked the options that I think I would have done under the same circumstances. I quite liked merrill so I tried to romance her, thusly I tried at all costs to avoid all hearts with any other npc. at one point in the Hanged man, Isabela then put me up to the wall saying that she liked me. I had nothing against her but I had already decided upon whom I wanted and thusly wanted to decline. But I got 3 options and all of them were hearts. I had to pick a heart and then pick a break heart. Ironicly a friend of mine (Hi KiddDaBeauty ) desperatly wanted Isabela and was haveing trouble getting her. I can try to dig throu my playthrough to see if I can find it, but  KiddDaBeauty is my only eyewitness.
I will get back to you with a screenshot If I find it again.

[Alucard of the dragon]

sorry screw my last post up and don't know how to delete it

[Alucard of the dragon]

Alucard of the dragon wrote...

sorry screw my last post up and don't know how to delete it

meant comment

[Perles75]

considering that the same-sex part of the DA series is considered an added value (or just ignored) by a vast majority, I'd say it would be pretty stupid not to continue the tradition.

I guess now Bioware has to decide how to deal with the future LIs... in DA they gave 2 straight and 2 bi choices; in DA2 4 companions available to everyone, either because bisex or "gender-selective".
Will they continue in the "all bi" tradition, or will they dare to propose only gay/only straight companions?

[erynnar]

I agree it is important and should be. the gay/bi community deserves to be represented. And I too like to play different roles (hetro female here). I tend to prefer females, but I have been known to put on the pixelated beard.

That being said, not every character should be bi (one of my favorite Fantasy book series of all time's protagonist was a gay male and I felt right at home seeing the world through his eyes). Since I see BioWare games as books I can play, and it the characters are supposed to be like real people, not everyone is bi. And since these games are meant to be replayed, then the everyone is bi (save Aveline and Varric, who because they were who they were, seemed like real people--albeit pixelated fake--people) it becomes a little silly. I would be fine with not being able to romance a companion as a female.

[TEWR]

I could personally care less whether the characters are all bi or a mix of straight/gay/bi. It doesn't bother me really.

[jlb524]

erynnar wrote...
I would be fine with not being able to romance a companion as a female.

Even if it was your favorite male companion who happened to be an LI but only availabe to male PCs?

Also, these games aren't anything like books b/c they can be replayed and in different ways each time....changing things about the protagonist and how they interact/influence each companion.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 juin 2011 - 05:29 .

[Feanor_II]

I'm really astonished about this whole "romance matter". I think that it's an asset to make a game more realistic, with more variables....... But hell!!!! Giving it soooo much importance.... I just consider one of many factors a more general matter that's really important: Companions relationships.
Come on, there are many things to discuss about: Combat system, RPG mechanichs, customization, storytyelling. Romances are only one of those but, as I see it has gone so out of control that it ended having it's own subforum. Come it's not a dating simulator!

It's only my opinion, I hope nno one gers offended.

Modifié par Feanor_II, 15 juin 2011 - 05:43 .

[erynnar]

jlb524 wrote...

erynnar wrote...
I would be fine with not being able to romance a companion as a female.

Even if it was your favorite male companion who happened to be an LI but only availabe to male PCs?

Also, these games aren't anything like books b/c they can be replayed and in different ways each time....changing things about the protagonist and how they interact/influence each companion.

Yes. Would I be a little disappointed? Sure? But if it really bothered, that is what fanfiction is for. 

And yes, they are like books, "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. Maybe you're too young for those, but they were very popular when I was growing up. So to me, BioWare games are like books you can play.

[jlb524]

erynnar wrote...

Yes. Would I be a little disappointed? Sure? But if it really bothered, that is what fanfiction is for. 

And if it kept happening in every game you played?

erynnar wrote...
And yes, they are like books, "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. Maybe you're too young for those, but they were very popular when I was growing up. So to me, BioWare games are like books you can play.

I had those books.  I recall them being very limited in how you could build your character/influence other characters/etc. which is why I wouldn't compare them to a BioWare game.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rigeth wrote...

But alas, I do have one thing I am STRONGLY AGAINST! And what might that be? The triple heart Isabelas forced romance. 3 out of 3 options all hearts, what the duck?

Um... where is this scene? I've been over DA2 with a fine-toothed comb for FAQ research and I've never seen this.

Might be confusing Isabela for Anders.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rigeth wrote...

But alas, I do have one thing I am STRONGLY AGAINST! And what might that be? The triple heart Isabelas forced romance. 3 out of 3 options all hearts, what the duck?

Um... where is this scene? I've been over DA2 with a fine-toothed comb for FAQ research and I've never seen this.

Might be confusing Isabela for Anders.

I thought so too; there was the infamous heart, heart, heartbreak option for Anders. I've never seen a triple heart option for anybody. I call shenanigans.

[erynnar]

jlb524 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Yes. Would I be a little disappointed? Sure? But if it really bothered, that is what fanfiction is for. 

And if it kept happening in every game you played?

erynnar wrote...
And yes, they are like books, "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. Maybe you're too young for those, but they were very popular when I was growing up. So to me, BioWare games are like books you can play.

I had those books.  I recall them being very limited in how you could build your character/influence other characters/etc. which is why I wouldn't compare them to a BioWare game.

Like being the operative word. Not exactly like, not a duplicate of, not a carbon copy. Like, but better. 

And if it happened in every game I played? Well I have multiple choices of LI's. I could slap on the pixelated beard and play a gay male. Really, has it gotten to where everyone thinks every whim, should be catered to? I prefer realism and logic within the realms of my fantasy story. It has to make sense even if it's fiction. And they established, some characters are hetro, period. Why not one who is gay, period? I have no problem with that.

Would I be disappointed? Maybe, but I learned long ago, life is full of disappointment and I don't get everything I want. So I'd either suck it up and slap on a beard or go write/read fanfiction to cater to my "if only they were..."

Modifié par erynnar, 15 juin 2011 - 06:03 .

[jlb524]

erynnar wrote...

Like being the operative word. Not exactly like, not a duplicate of, not a carbon copy. Like, but better. 

I still maintain BW games are fundamentally different from a book, given that the protagonist isn't even clearly defined as well as each character and their relationship to said protagonist...which are things that need to happen in books.

erynnar wrote...
And if it happened in every game I played? Well I have multiple choices of LI's. I could slap on the pixelated beard and play a gay male.

You would have to, yes.

erynnar wrote...
Really, has it gotten to where everyone thinks every whim, should be catered to? I prefer realism and logic within the realms of my fantasy story. It has to make sense even if it's fiction. And they established, some characters are hetro, period. Why not one who is gay, period? I have no problem with that.

I'd say these romances are already quite 'ilogical' and unrealistic for the sake of giving people options (like, no race/class/morality checks for romances).  I'm not sure why most are okay with that, but grip on tight to gender checks for the sake of maintaining 'realism'.

erynnar wrote...
Would I be disappointed? Maybe, but I learned long ago, life is full of disappointment and I don't get everything I want. So I'd either suck it up and slap on a beard or go write/read fanfiction to cater to my "if only they were..."

Well, they've set a precedent for including more s/s options now...and people who really like s/s romances kind of want them to keep it now.  I see no problem with this and I'm in that boat.  It reminds me of old BW games, where there were usually 2-3 female LIs for the male PC and only one male LI for the female PC...of course, people who played female PCs wanted more options...wanted the same amount of LIs that the male PCs got...where they in the wrong for wanting this?  Is it okay to revert back to only one male romance for female characters and add in more females for males?

Modifié par jlb524, 15 juin 2011 - 06:11 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

jlb524 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Would I be disappointed? Maybe, but I learned long ago, life is full of disappointment and I don't get everything I want. So I'd either suck it up and slap on a beard or go write/read fanfiction to cater to my "if only they were..."

Well, they've set a precedent for including more s/s options now...and people who really like s/s romances kind of want them to keep it now.  I see no problem with this and I'm in that boat.  It reminds me of old BW games, where there were usually 2-3 female LIs for the male PC and only one male LI for the female PC...of course, people who played female PCs wanted more options...wanted the same amount of LIs that the male PCs got...where they in the wrong for wanting this?  Is it okay to revert back to only one male romance for female characters and add in more females for males?

I think you made a very good point here. Isn't that similar to what John Epler said earlier?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 juin 2011 - 06:30 .