368 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

I don't think there's much point in trying to apply modern interpretations of wearing jewelry to a setting where everyone wears necklaces and rings if only they can get their hands on some.

[Sutekh]

Tirfan wrote...

Oh the Anders thing, you know, in Awakening dialogue he mentioned just wanting to be free, have a nice girl and shoot lightning at stupid people (or something along the lines..) and the fact that in his party banter with Velanna he mentions finding tattoos on women incredibly attractive.. I always got the impression that he was straight.

The fact that he could be mostly attracted to women doesn't mean he can't be attracted to men. There's no way to conclude anything from that. Being bi doesn't mean being equally attracted to both genders. Zevran, for instance, says that he's more attracted to women in the very same dialog where he hits on a male Warden. And, man, does he praise Wynne's bosom, and hits on Leliana and Morrigan! It's a spectrum, not some trinary thing with "Straight/bi/gay" and nothing in between.

I'm not saying your impression is wrong and mine is right, just that there's room to interpretation.

Pasquale1234 wrote...
I seem to be the only one here, though, who is acknowledging the fact that DAA Anders wore an earring in his right ear.  If that means the same thing in Thedas that it means in my neck of the woods, it is a statement that says, "I'm gay".

The earring thing could be a hint, just like you saw it, or could be something else entirely. It would make perfect sense if Thedas was repressive against s/s relationships, and gay people needed a special code in order to "send signals to whom it may concern" while avoiding being harrassed by "whom it concerns not". Maybe it was the case in the Circle. Who knows?

To be honest, I think that Awakening!Anders's writer didn't give it much thought because Anders's orientation in Awakening is simply irrelevant to the romanceless plot. They went for the mostly straight banter/dialog to flesh Anders as a merry, funny, careless guy without deep concerns about love simply because it's more commonly accepted and less controversial. They didn't close any door, though, so we're free to interpret things as we please.

[reddead136]

Well , I didn't have to much of a problem with the characters being able to be romanced by either gender.But when I was trying to be bros with Anders or any other male character for that matter , it honestly did kind of bug me that when I was talking to them , that in some conversations there was a heart option , but obviously no body makes you pick it. I mean everyone deserves to have Love gay , straight , or bi , its just I felt it kind of made the characters faker for me because you could pretty much bend them to your will. Sexuality is a big part of a person and I like how it was done in dragon age origins where you had characters that had their own certain preferences when it came to sexuality. But at the same time I get that bi/homosexual players didn't get to much of a choice in LI's in Origins and that DA2 gave them those choices and I like that. I'm glad that Bioware doesn't shy away from Sexuality in their games no matter what the person prefers. I guess my main point is that I am not sure how I want them to handle this in dragon age 3 , but if they do handle it in a way similar to DA2 then maybe make it a little harder and not so easy to bend every character to be either straight or gay just by a simple flirt option ( unless they already are of course). Not impossible maybe , but I feel it just cheapens the character when they will sleep with anyone and do not have their own sexual preference like the PC has. Well , unless it is a character like Isabella =P

[Deztyn]

tmp7704 wrote...

I don't think there's much point in trying to apply modern interpretations of wearing jewelry to a setting where everyone wears necklaces and rings if only they can get their hands on some.

And here is where I also point out that Anders had Duncan's hair and Duncan's earring. They just reused an available art resource.

[Harid]

Deztyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

I don't think there's much point in trying to apply modern interpretations of wearing jewelry to a setting where everyone wears necklaces and rings if only they can get their hands on some.

And here is where I also point out that Anders had Duncan's hair and Duncan's earring. They just reused an available art resource.

Pretty much this.

I don't want to know what it means when guys wear earring in both ears in your neck of the woods.  But nowadays earring location doesn't mean squat.  This is not the 80's.

There is no proof that thedas is against gay relationships in game or elsewhere.  There is no proof the Warden is homophobic when you play DA:O.  You guys are filling gaps based on sequal knowledge and are not basing anything off of what happened in Awakening or DA:O.

I would think if Thedas was homophobic, one of the FIRST things Loghain would have stated in his rant in the Landsmeet was your orientation derogatorily, much akin to King Silas in the NBC series Kings.  He does not.  No one ever does.  Even people who hate your guts.  Which is why I used the term 'agenda' with that last guy, you guys are relfecting real world tendancies onto a game where no said tendancies have been proven to be shown.

Modifié par Harid, 16 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[Sister Helen]

If you don't want the romance, just don't heart the guy/girl. Then the companion's sexual orientation is a non-issue. Does it really matter if Fenris is romanceable by both males and female Hawkes if YOUR Hawke does not choose to romance him?

(Though I believe he romances Isabella at one point, if neither character is sleeping with Hawke.)

[Vicious]

I don't think it will be affected. Samesex romance was a small complaint about DA2 vs, well, everything else that was complained about.

[Phaelducan]

No offense, but DA2 didn't exactly break any sales records. I think Bioware should have bigger fish to fry than this non-issue.

[Maria Caliban]

Harid wrote...

But nowadays earring location doesn't mean squat.  This is not the 80's.

"Left is right, but right is wrong."

Ahh, the 80s, when a strange breed of people called 'gays' suddenly and mysteriously sprang into being and straights of all ages wondered what these creatures might look like.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Harid wrote...

But nowadays earring location doesn't mean squat.  This is not the 80's.

"Left is right, but right is wrong."

Ahh, the 80s, when a strange breed of people called 'gays' suddenly and mysteriously sprang into being and straights of all ages wondered what these creatures might look like.

Either Duncan or the darkspawn, depending on point of view.

[lobi]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Harid wrote...

But nowadays earring location doesn't mean squat.  This is not the 80's.

"Left is right, but right is wrong."

Ahh, the 80s, when a strange breed of people called 'gays' suddenly and mysteriously sprang into being and straights of all ages wondered what these creatures might look like.

Either Duncan or the darkspawn, depending on point of view.

So Darkspawn = 'rough trade'.

Modifié par lobi, 17 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[Rixxencaxx]

dragon age 2 is a fail but not cause of same sex relationships......it's a fail cause is a very poor designed game realized cutting a lot of corners to capitalize on origins success.

[JoHnDoE14]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

All of us know that in DAO, a homosexual character only had one character to "choose from" in the gallery. If your character was a greedy mage with no positive feelings about what she had to endure at the Circle (and indirectly, feel dislike toward the Chantry) for instance, you weren't going to hit it off with Leliana and thus ended up single with no choice. This really limits the kind of options you have in the game, and more importantly, the kind of stories the game can tell along with you. Since adding an NPC is a lot of work, we can't expect BioWare to feed us enough of them to serve all our characters' wishes.

Still, a large part of being a good PnP game master is the ability to say "Yes, and~" instead of "No" as often as possible when asked for things by the players. Thus, if we want our character to have the option of developing a relationship - something that is with no doubt a pretty large part of many people's lives - it is in our interest that the game allows us to get there. And by enabling all love interests to all characters, we have much more freedom in crafting the kind of role playing experience we want.

I hope our love interests will stay available, no matter what happens to DA3's overall design.

 I totaly respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Enabling all LIs to all characters makes the game a more poor RPG experience and not a richer one. For instance, taking DAO as an example (as you did), the point of not being able to romance Morrigan if you were a woman (especially a female mage that didn't want to romance Leliana) , was that she simply wasn't interested in women (most probably because Flemeth taught her that way, but that's not what I want to say). It's only juveline to demand of BioWare to cater to all our whims by enabling EVERYONE to romance EVERYONE. Even worse, this is implicating that the only reason of all relationships, is pleasure and not something deeper (at least on what concerns the story and the main protagonist). If that's how you want to play the game, that's fine by me, even though I never would play it like this. For all those reasons, I personally believe, that BioWare always had some Bisexual options and some Straight in their games, letting everyone enjoy the game that he/she wants, while not turning the game to something that is in any way providing a less rich experience. Even though I am one of the few people that liked DA2 ( while I believe that DAO is a better game), I didn't really like this new direction. As you can probably imagine, I would like DA3 not to implement this whole new 'they are all protagonistsexual' idea. I didn't really like it.

Modifié par JoHnDoE14, 17 juin 2011 - 01:36 .

[Mykel54]

I believe in character development the most, not in romances. I honestly think that this obsession with in-game romances (every bioware game has romance these days) is starting to hurt the main narrative of the game.

The perfect example is DA2 where you see a lot of characters as bisexuals, with the only objective of being fanservice. If bioware had preserved say, Anders character in DA2, he could have been a dashing renegade mage that loves women (as he hint in awakenings). That feature would become part of his character, and would affect how anders interact with women npcs (ex. Oghren in origins) or with the female player character.

By making everyone bisexual, all characters are becoming bland in the altar of "equality" (an absurd concept applied here) and romance choice. These days it seems like it is more important to have the most romance options possible, rather than having each character having a well defined set of attributes and behaviours.

I hope bioware realises that romances do not make a game, and that the "memorable characters" from previous games, were not so because you could romance them, but because of their ow personality.

[Wulfram]

Deztyn wrote...

And here is where I also point out that Anders had Duncan's hair and Duncan's earring. They just reused an available art resource.

Well, Duncan is obviously gay.  I mean, he turns down the chance to sleep with F!Cousland.

[xCirdanx]

Mykel54 wrote...
By making everyone bisexual, all characters are becoming bland in the altar of "equality" (an absurd concept applied here) and romance choice. These days it seems like it is more important to have the most romance options possible, rather than having each character having a well defined set of attributes and behaviours.

Very well said, i didn´t liked it either. Making every character bi made them just not beliveable for me and bland. I hope they will change this again. But as others said, there were more important problems to the game than this.

[devil_foetus]

Options are good. I think the flaw lies in the dialogue options and the forced nature of some of the choices. i.e. loosing reputation if you don't actively flirt with a character who you just met or doesn't conform to your orientation. They need to be a lot more subtle, let things build, heck get to know you first before coming on so heavy. And the notion of everyone being bisexual is totally unrealistic.

Modifié par devil_foetus, 17 juin 2011 - 08:30 .

[Kyda]

I thought the romances were not that awful. I used to think that (as many have stated) since in real life we don’t always get what we want we should get companions that were true to themselves (bi/straight/gay) since that´s what people usually are... some are bi, some are straight and some are gay. But after going through my 3rd game I still haven´t been hit on by anyone that I didn’t want to be hit by. Actually I was amazed to read that many got stalked by Anders... lol... I guess I was never that nice when I was a friend... of course I can’t really talk much about it since I rivalmanced him on my second game and now I am trying it once more with patch 1.03.
I do think that the implementation of these romances should be improved and maybe make them a little more unique so that it doesn´t seem like they are all the same.
So... I understand both complains... but if they make them as they are in DA2 ( or better even better!) I wouldn’t mind.
Now... about the Anders dilemma... really? I mean he is mostly presented as straight in DAA... I can even accept bi, but seriously why look so much into it when writers allowed him to die in DAA and then they bring him back to life with no explanations whatsoever... Don’t you people think that they could have also change his sexual orientation to fit in DA2 idea of romances?

[Foolsfolly]

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'.

B-but...branching in the story deepens player involvement. Relationships are nice but they're never as important as the overall story.

...

...My English Major is showing I guess.

[Fidget6]

 The romances were one of the few things not heavily criticized about DA2 (the fade to black thing was a bit, but not the options themselves) I do hope they don't go the "Everyone is bi! lol!" route again, but I don't see any reason they wouldn't continue to include same-sex romances since it's become somewhat of a tradition in Bioware games and is all people seem to be able to talk about before each Bioware release. 

[craigdolphin]

For myself, I don't think there'll be any impact on same sex romances in DA3 because the vast majority of people who are criticising DA2 aren't discussing that aspect of it. The lack of interesting/attractive NPC's, and the ongoing disaster that has become synonmymous with the words 'Bioware' and 'sex scenes', now /those/ are subjects I've seen a few times.

I'm straight myself, but I have no concerns with Bioware making all the LI's swing either way. If you're straight, it's essentially invisible most of the time anyway. And if a gay character like Anders tries to proposition you, well, it could happen that way IRL too, and your character needs to learn to deal with it IMO.

The challenging part for Bioware is to allow the player to respond to that situation in a way that is satisfying to the player without simultaneously offending other people. For example, there are likely to be some somewhat, 'reactionary' types playing the game too....the challenge is for Bioware to provide a response they feel satisfied with as well. But I would then wonder how the LBGT community would react if Bioware allowed those players to actually be able to choose a nasty / bigoted response to such an unwanted proposition? And if they don't provide a 'phobic' response option, then would they be marginalizing the views of players with that viewpoint? (And frankly, I'd be ok with that myself tbh.) It's a minefield. Whatever Bioware does they're going to upset some folks. Personally, I think the balance should favor consideration for minority groups.

I think it is important for people to have an equal chance of representation in the media etc. That said, I do not think that's quite the same thing as saying that everyone encountered in games should be someone like them. I think the odds of characters in games being LBGT in games ought to be about the same as it is IRL. I'm not sure what that number would be, but my completely uninformed guess would be something like 15 - 20% of the population. So, if the goal is equality, then that's would be the kind of ratio I would have expected within the LI population too.

But, there's really no reason to keep things at that level when the game can ensure that LI's be all things to all people, with very little downside (if any). It's one of a the great things about videogames versus other forms of media. I do agree that it makes the game world seem a bit unrealistic for rp purposes, but only if you bring your knowledge of the 'sytem' into the game with you. And if you're going to do that, then you're going to have a lot of other issues because of it anyways.

At least, that's my POV.

[Deztyn]

Wulfram wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

And here is where I also point out that Anders had Duncan's hair and Duncan's earring. They just reused an available art resource.

Well, Duncan is obviously gay.  I mean, he turns down the chance to sleep with F!Cousland.

I can not argue with logic like this.

[Maria Caliban]

Foolsfolly wrote...

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'.

B-but...branching in the story deepens player involvement. Relationships are nice but they're never as important as the overall story.

...

...My English Major is showing I guess.

Strangely enough, I don't recall a single work of English literature judged on its branching plot in my classes, but plenty where the relationships between characters was considered important.

craigdolphin wrote...

But I would then wonder how the LBGT community would react if Bioware allowed those players to actually be able to choose a nasty / bigoted response to such an unwanted proposition?

As long as my Lady Hawke can punch Anders in the face when he hits on her, I have no problem with Beardy Hawke being able to do the same.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 juin 2011 - 06:54 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'.

B-but...branching in the story deepens player involvement. Relationships are nice but they're never as important as the overall story.

...

...My English Major is showing I guess.

Strangely enough, I don't recall a single work of English literature judged on its branching plot in my classes, but plenty where the relationships between characters was considered important.

You should have taken the class that studied the "Choose-Your-Own-Adventure" books.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

You should have taken the class that studied the "Choose-Your-Own-Adventure" books.

I read a Dr. Who CYOA book. I remember at the end, the character was forced to say that love was the strongest force in the universe or they died.

Not only is that a lame choice, but if we're going to get sentimental, wouldn't it be hope?

Now that I think about it, it seems a huge number of choice simply lead to you dying horribly. I recall one where agreeing to stay after school meant that you, your mother, and your little sister all died at the hands of a vampire teacher.

So what I think BioWare should do, is monitor the friendship/rivalry level of each character. Once you reach 50%, they hit on you, and if you turn them down, Hawke dies.

A ogre runs out of nowhere, scoops them up, and smashes them against a building.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 juin 2011 - 07:04 .