215 réponses à ce sujet

[Oblivious]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

Spectre status supercedes normal ranking, that's true, but Kaidan is a Spectre too now and Spectres have no chain of command (they are all technically equal), so not only Shep isn't his superior but Kaidan has technically more political pull due to his higher military rank...
Shep may at most claim to be his Spectre "senior", but only because he/she has been a Spectre longer, not for inherent ranking...

EDIT: There's also the fact Shep may have refused reinstatement, so Kaidan would be BOTH his military superior (Shep is back in the Alliance) and outrank him as a Spectre...

Does ranking really matter when your  Shepard. I doubt it.

It matters to my Shepard. He will be the first leader, whether it be official or unofficial, of an interspecies army and navy that includes Krogans, Quarians, and Rachni. By the end of ME3 not even the Council will have as much power as Shepard himself. It would be more believable if Shepard would command the force as a captain or an admiral rather than a lieutenant commander.

It's like Allied Forces in World War 2 taking orders from Major Eisenhower or the Seventh Coalition fighting Napoleon were to take orders from Lieutenant Colonel Wellington. It would make no sense to believe that Turians, Asari, and Salarians will all unite under Shepard simply because he was right when there were more "capable" and experienced officers in the Alliance Military.

[The Elder King]

Pride Demon wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

Spectre status supercedes normal ranking, that's true, but Kaidan is a Spectre too now and Spectres have no chain of command (they are all technically equal), so not only Shep isn't his superior but Kaidan has technically more political pull due to his higher military rank...
Shep may at most claim to be his Spectre "senior", but only because he/she has been a Spectre longer, not for inherent ranking...

EDIT: There's also the fact Shep may have refused reinstatement, so Kaidan would be BOTH his military superior (Shep is back in the Alliance) and outrank him as a Spectre...

I agree about the Spectre thing, but if Shepard is in charge of the SR2 in ME3, his rank should be Captain, so he/she sould be Kaidan't superior. Even in ME2 he had the role of a Captain, since he was in charge of the SR2 (infact the Quarians called him Captain Shepard). It's still a problem in ME3 with Kaidan, since he has the same/superior grade of Shep. I'd like to see Shep becoming Captain is ME3, but I doubt that Bioware will change his/her grade.

[DocLasty]

But there are no more capable and experienced officers in the Alliance Military. Shepard proves his superiority and leadership through actions - people follow him and trust him because they know the name and the deeds attached to it. Races like Krogan wouldn't care if he was the damn President.

[Spectre_907]

If they are going to play the same role with Shepard and the VS in the first Mass Effect and with the Normandy SR2 in Mass Effect 2, I think Shepard is due for a promotion. At least to the rank of Captain.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 14 juin 2011 - 04:15 .

[Hathur]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

It's far more believable for me that Ash and Kaiden are LT then a spector.

I find it sorta cheapens Shepard... in the sense that being a Spectre in ME1 (and ME2 if you choose to be reinstated) was something.. awe inspiring... Shep felt special cus she / he was one of the rare few humans good enough to be a Spectre.

I never saw any of the qualities or traits in Ash / Kaidan that lead me to believe they could be a Spectre like Shepard... or Nihilus... most certainly not like Saren. Anderson would have been a great Spectre (if he wasn't screwed over by Saren), he has many of the traits and qualities that you can see in Shepard.

Frankly, if they wanted a human spectre for ME3, they should have just added another character to the Lore... seeing Kaidan or Ash as one just leaves me thinking "Meh... Spectres... guess they're taking anyone these days." 

Kaidan and Ash are good soldiers, but far from greatness like the Spectres before them... they've certainly never achieved anything as monumental as Shepard did in her/his origin story (be it war hero, sole survivor, etc)... all the great things they achieved were done while under the command of Shepard... not on their own.

Modifié par Hathur, 14 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[Oblivious]

DocLasty wrote...

But there are no more capable and experienced officers in the Alliance Military. Shepard proves his superiority and leadership through actions - people follow him and trust him because they know the name and the deeds attached to it. Races like Krogan wouldn't care if he was the damn President.

I believe the highest ranking person we've met so far is Hackett. He is the fleet admiral in charge of the 5th fleet, led the 5th fleet in action against Sovereign, and is well respected enough to be alongside Udina and Anderson when recommending Shepard for Spectre status. And he's only in command of the 5th fleet, there are many more fleet admirals with decades more experience in ship-to-ship combat in the Alliance navy, let alone the Citadel races.

The Krogans trust Shepard if Wrex is alive and the Quarians will follow Shepard if you didn't f-up in Tali's trial and helped every Quarian you met. The Rachni will also hail Shepard as their savior and follow him if you spared them. But the Turians, Asari, and Salarians have no reason to trust Shepard without a good reason and I doubt that the Turians, with the largest fleet in Citadel space, will give command to some random human who hasn't even risen to the rank of Captain.

Heck, I'm imposing logic into a video game, I'm sure Bioware will just hand wave this or give Hackett overall command despite there being far more experienced Turian and Asari commanders flying far more advanced ships.

[HTTP 404]

Oblivious wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

But there are no more capable and experienced officers in the Alliance Military. Shepard proves his superiority and leadership through actions - people follow him and trust him because they know the name and the deeds attached to it. Races like Krogan wouldn't care if he was the damn President.

I believe the highest ranking person we've met so far is Hackett. He is the fleet admiral in charge of the 5th fleet, led the 5th fleet in action against Sovereign, and is well respected enough to be alongside Udina and Anderson when recommending Shepard for Spectre status. And he's only in command of the 5th fleet, there are many more fleet admirals with decades more experience in ship-to-ship combat in the Alliance navy, let alone the Citadel races.

The Krogans trust Shepard if Wrex is alive and the Quarians will follow Shepard if you didn't f-up in Tali's trial and helped every Quarian you met. The Rachni will also hail Shepard as their savior and follow him if you spared them. But the Turians, Asari, and Salarians have no reason to trust Shepard without a good reason and I doubt that the Turians, with the largest fleet in Citadel space, will give command to some random human who hasn't even risen to the rank of Captain.

Heck, I'm imposing logic into a video game, I'm sure Bioware will just hand wave this or give Hackett overall command despite there being far more experienced Turian and Asari commanders flying far more advanced ships.

Funny that you mention the turians, asari, and salarians having little relationship with Shepard.  The only weight Shepard has on them is through the Council.  I think convincing the Council races to fight against the reapers would make up at least 50 percent of the attacking force.  Basically Shepard needs the Council races and I hope there is no wand waving by bioware to make it so easy to convince them.

[Oblivious]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Um...ok. If that's that plot the game allows..........But I was mostly talking about would Kaidan or Shepard really care about rank when they team up.....Because Shepards had the most experience the with the Reapers.

Sorry I misunderstood your meaning. It shouldn't matter since you're teaming up with an old friend by people have this thought processing that goes "If you question me or my decisions for a second then you're dead!" Thus the reason so many people hate characters like Bastila, Miranda, Morrigan, and Ashley. They fear that Kaidan poses a threat to their ego and refuse to let that happen^_^

[Sir Edric]

Ashley a liteutenant? Well, fancy that. My little girl has grown to a women.

[Darkhour]

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

They aren't in the same chain of command so it isn't really a matter of superior and subordinate.

And E-9 in the italian airforce is not a superior to an E-5 in the U.S. Airforce.

Even within U.S. armed forces a special forces E-6 is not subordinate to a regular army E-8. 

[James Raynor]

Pride Demon wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

Spectre status supercedes normal ranking, that's true, but Kaidan is a Spectre too now and Spectres have no chain of command (they are all technically equal), so not only Shep isn't his superior but Kaidan has technically more political pull due to his higher military rank...
Shep may at most claim to be his Spectre "senior", but only because he/she has been a Spectre longer, not for inherent ranking...

EDIT: There's also the fact Shep may have refused reinstatement, so Kaidan would be BOTH his military superior (Shep is back in the Alliance) and outrank him as a Spectre...

even though Kaiden may outrank Shepard he still knows that Shepard is his commander and with the return of the Reapers I think Shepard is going to win back some political backing and maybe during the crisis Hackett is going to Shepard to the rank of Captain making him again Kaiden's superior in the Alliance military.
Shepard is a more competent and more experienced spectre than Kaiden having played a huge role in the Sovereign's defeat and having successfully come back from the Collector's base

Modifié par James Raynor, 14 juin 2011 - 05:24 .

[Darkhour]

Oblivious wrote...
It's like Allied Forces in World War 2 taking orders from Major Eisenhower or the Seventh Coalition fighting Napoleon were to take orders from Lieutenant Colonel Wellington. It would make no sense to believe that Turians, Asari, and Salarians will all unite under Shepard simply because he was right when there were more "capable" and experienced officers in the Alliance Military.

They defer to Shepard because he is just so badass.

Like when Shepard said saved the council/screw the council. ADMIRAL Hackett followed Shepard's orders. Hehehe.

[James Raynor]

Darkhour wrote...

Oblivious wrote...
It's like Allied Forces in World War 2 taking orders from Major Eisenhower or the Seventh Coalition fighting Napoleon were to take orders from Lieutenant Colonel Wellington. It would make no sense to believe that Turians, Asari, and Salarians will all unite under Shepard simply because he was right when there were more "capable" and experienced officers in the Alliance Military.

They defer to Shepard because he is just so badass.

Like when Shepard said saved the council/screw the council. ADMIRAL Hackett followed Shepard's orders. Hehehe.

He trusted Shepard's ground judgement

[James Raynor]

Darkhour wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

They aren't in the same chain of command so it isn't really a matter of superior and subordinate.

And E-9 in the italian airforce is not a superior to an E-5 in the U.S. Airforce.

Even within U.S. armed forces a special forces E-6 is not subordinate to a regular army E-8. 

I agree with you but strangely enough Hackett reminded Shepard of his duties to the Alliance even though Anderson said he only answered to the Council

[James Raynor]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

But there are no more capable and experienced officers in the Alliance Military. Shepard proves his superiority and leadership through actions - people follow him and trust him because they know the name and the deeds attached to it. Races like Krogan wouldn't care if he was the damn President.

I believe the highest ranking person we've met so far is Hackett. He is the fleet admiral in charge of the 5th fleet, led the 5th fleet in action against Sovereign, and is well respected enough to be alongside Udina and Anderson when recommending Shepard for Spectre status. And he's only in command of the 5th fleet, there are many more fleet admirals with decades more experience in ship-to-ship combat in the Alliance navy, let alone the Citadel races.

The Krogans trust Shepard if Wrex is alive and the Quarians will follow Shepard if you didn't f-up in Tali's trial and helped every Quarian you met. The Rachni will also hail Shepard as their savior and follow him if you spared them. But the Turians, Asari, and Salarians have no reason to trust Shepard without a good reason and I doubt that the Turians, with the largest fleet in Citadel space, will give command to some random human who hasn't even risen to the rank of Captain.

Heck, I'm imposing logic into a video game, I'm sure Bioware will just hand wave this or give Hackett overall command despite there being far more experienced Turian and Asari commanders flying far more advanced ships.

Funny that you mention the turians, asari, and salarians having little relationship with Shepard.  The only weight Shepard has on them is through the Council.  I think convincing the Council races to fight against the reapers would make up at least 50 percent of the attacking force.  Basically Shepard needs the Council races and I hope there is no wand waving by bioware to make it so easy to convince them.

I agree but depending on your choices (saving or not the council) it will greatly influence them into joining or not this joint army to take down the Reapers

[James Raynor]

Oblivious wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

Um...ok. If that's that plot the game allows..........But I was mostly talking about would Kaidan or Shepard really care about rank when they team up.....Because Shepards had the most experience the with the Reapers.

Sorry I misunderstood your meaning. It shouldn't matter since you're teaming up with an old friend by people have this thought processing that goes "If you question me or my decisions for a second then you're dead!" Thus the reason so many people hate characters like Bastila, Miranda, Morrigan, and Ashley. They fear that Kaidan poses a threat to their ego and refuse to let that happen^_^

got an easy solution for you let Kaiden die in Mass Effect 1

[DieHigh2012]

Nerevar-as wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

At least if she dies in Virmire, in ME2 they say the Williams name is no longer associated to the events of Shanxi. In fact that´s the reason I saved her most of the times, as I really dislike the redemption in death trope, more so in the circumstances of Shanxi.

Since she's a Spectre in ME3, the Williams name will probably be cleaned.

IMHO, there was nothing to clean from the beginning. Williams chose his men´s lifes over racial pride (reminds me of some pointless battles from WWI).

It´s also the reason I didn´t like his portrayal in TIM´s comic. The little we saw seemed more the kind to go down fighting regardless of the cost.

Wasn't all of WW1 fairly pointless?

[SupidSeep]

James Raynor wrote...

even though Kaiden may outrank Shepard he still knows that Shepard is his commander and with the return of the Reapers I think Shepard is going to win back some political backing and maybe during the crisis Hackett is going to Shepard to the rank of Captain making him again Kaiden's superior in the Alliance military.
Shepard is a more competent and more experienced spectre than Kaiden having played a huge role in the Sovereign's defeat and having successfully come back from the Collector's base

Anyway, Kaiden may technically outrank Shepard, but he has no real pull when it comes to the non-human party members and race interactions.  If he can't recognise that and defer to Shepard, one has to wonder about his competence as an officer.

If Kaiden tries to pull rank, maybe an Alliance-crewed Normandy will follow his orders, but I can picture Joker, ED-E and the non-human squadmembers (Garrus / Tali / Liara) plotting a rebellion at least.

[Darkhour]

James Raynor wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

They defer to Shepard because he is just so badass.

Like when Shepard said saved the council/screw the council. ADMIRAL Hackett followed Shepard's orders. Hehehe.

He trusted Shepard's ground judgement

His ground judgement could be "We're not sacrificing human lives to save the Council...".

I don't know about you, but if I'm an admiral leading a fleet I'm gonna need alittle bit more than human first anti-alien sentiment to sway my decision to stand by while aliies get destroyed.  But appearantly it wasn't Hackett's call. Shepard commands all fleets.

Or even "We need to save the Ascension. No matter what the cost"

Also, too vague. Even if saving the Ascension equals reapers pouring through the relay? It would have been much better if the actual situation was explained to the player. It comes off as you risking the survival of the galaxy to save 1 dreadnaught and only because it's carrying 3 (replacable) individuals. But in reality you're saving the whole god damned citadel fleet and more lives and ships then the amount you would lose.

From where I'm standing all renegade is human domination. Paragon is interspecies cooperation.

Modifié par Darkhour, 14 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Darkhour]

James Raynor wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

In the Alliance Kaidan does outrank Shepard but Spectres are outside of any species chain of command they only answer to the Council which still makes Shepard his superior

They aren't in the same chain of command so it isn't really a matter of superior and subordinate.

And E-9 in the italian airforce is not a superior to an E-5 in the U.S. Airforce.

Even within U.S. armed forces a special forces E-6 is not subordinate to a regular army E-8. 

I agree with you but strangely enough Hackett reminded Shepard of his duties to the Alliance even though Anderson said he only answered to the Council

Shepard could tell Hackett to kiss his ass if he wanted. He has no obligation whatsoever to take orders from Hackett. He's just a nice guy.

You could tell that other Admiral too F off with no reprecussions.

[Shad0wOGRE]

I still don't think Ash is a Lieutenant. I think Anderson was actually talking to Joker when he said Lieutenant.

I could be wrong, and her being an officer. would make the romance a little less inappropriate.

The other thing is Shepard is kind of outside the normal command structure anyway. He's basically become the equivalent of a field marshall in charge of multiple armies/navies. Hackett may move 5th Fleet but Shepard moves civilizations.

[James Raynor]

Darkhour wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

They defer to Shepard because he is just so badass.

Like when Shepard said saved the council/screw the council. ADMIRAL Hackett followed Shepard's orders. Hehehe.

He trusted Shepard's ground judgement

His ground judgement could be "We're not sacrificing human lives to save the Council...".

I don't know about you, but if I'm an admiral leading a fleet I'm gonna need alittle bit more than human first anti-alien sentiment to sway my decision to stand by while aliies get destroyed.  But appearantly it wasn't Hackett's call. Shepard commands all fleets.

Admiral Hackett commands the 5th fleet and he trusted Shepard to make the call and if needed he could use Shepard as a scapegoat if things turn bad

[Oblivious]

Darkhour wrote...

James Raynor wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

They defer to Shepard because he is just so badass.

Like when Shepard said saved the council/screw the council. ADMIRAL Hackett followed Shepard's orders. Hehehe.

He trusted Shepard's ground judgement

His ground judgement could be "We're not sacrificing human lives to save the Council...".

I don't know about you, but if I'm an admiral leading a fleet I'm gonna need alittle bit more than human first anti-alien sentiment to sway my decision to stand by while aliies get destroyed.  But appearantly it wasn't Hackett's call. Shepard commands all fleets.

So what? Real-life generals rely on scouts to tell them where to attack and when. Generals don't look at things from a frontline perspective, they rely on others for that and then make a decision based off the intelligence and their judgement. Hackett faces a very real and common situations: which choice is the least evil? Sacrificing human lives for a Council that distrusts them or sacrificing innocent lives for people who were already expecting to die. He relied on Shepard to make the call.

That does not mean Shepard is capable of commanding Admirals or barking orders at Captains. It simply means that as the person at Ground Zero Hackett deferred to his judgement and hopes he was making the correct choice.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's fairly unusual for enlisted soldiers to gain an officer's commission, isn't it?

Officers usually start at Lieutenant straight out of military college,while enlisted men never get there.