738 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He could've been both proactive and reactive, but he wasn't. I liked the idea of Hawke trying to keep the peace but things just spiral too far out of control and he's unable to keep things from escalating to the point they did. But he didn't try and keep the peace. He just...... constantly sits on his ass. He couldn't even be bothered to warn a certain person close to him about a murderous psychopath!


In theory, a Rise to Power, trying to keep the peace, and being an important person in Thedas was a great concept. In practice, it was executed horribly.

I think Hawke lacked the proper responsibility/power to be as proactive as some people want him/her to be.

It's not like with the Warden where those are clearly shown and defined...

Responsibility:  stop Blight.
Power:  People have to respect you and listen b/c you are a Grey Warden

...it's pretty simple.  This isn't the case with Hawke.

[alex90c]

To be fair, at least Hawke was allowed to actually say no. Even if it meant having to do the quest anyway.

I'm looking at you Petrice.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
@the_one

I didn't say it applied to everyone. I just feel like there's too many turds in the punch bowl.

And I'm just pointing out an opportunity to participate in a constructive objective discussion about the "new" features.

Except that list isn't really "new" most of it is either ripped straight out of ME or other games.

[Chuvvy]

What are you guys talking about? DA2 was very innovative, I've never seen a game so blatantly reuse assets in my life.

[Addai]

Redcoat wrote...

I think people are reading too much into the word "innovation"...it's just PR-speak. No publically-traded company is going to fall on their sword and admit their product was terrible. They're not going to come out and say, "We screwed up, plain and simple. Sorry about that, old bean!"

Now that would be a welcome innovation.

[astreqwerty]

if they include multiplayer in da im out..

[Atakuma]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
@the_one

I didn't say it applied to everyone. I just feel like there's too many turds in the punch bowl.

And I'm just pointing out an opportunity to participate in a constructive objective discussion about the "new" features.

Except that list isn't really "new" most of it is either ripped straight out of ME or other games.

It's new for dragon age.

[Bejos_]

Brockololly wrote...

FJVP wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Can someone actually link me to the videos/websites/whatever where Bioware bashed Origins? I'd love to see it, lol.

Click

Yup.

"One of the problems that Dragon Age Origins had was that there wasn't any consistency. Right? The game was like, you're in the Brecilian Forest and it was a lush foresty environment with tons of detail; you went into, you know, the Deep Roads and it was all brown and completely different. It could have been 20 different games, right?"

Well, no kidding, a forest might look different than some undergound ruins? What a freaking revelation! Thats half of the problem in DA2- the unified Hot Rod Samurai look made everything look the same, so no matter what culture or locale something was supposed to derive from, it all had the same blocky/jaggy/horn & feather laden look, as opposed to Origins where different cultures, races and locations had different visual looks to reflect that.

"I think there is something like, you know, 30,000 books in the Circle Tower. SO when you go into the Circle Tower in Origins there are all these books all over the floor. DId you even pay any attention to that? Did you even know that before I said that? No! They went through all that painstaking detail for no reason! And as a result, you had to sacrifice all the other quality of graphics for everything."

Yeah...you know, a massive library that was just ripped to shreds by demonic abominations...get rid of the books! Too much detail!

"The other thing was like do I go fully top down and have that ability, it ruined the fidelity of the game."

Yeah, my Origins game was ruined by the top down camera. The fidelity simply went to **** when I went into that view. Thank god for saving me from that horror BioWare. You have my eternal thanks.

Oh, Bioware's marketing team are just full of it, aren't they? How the **** do they sleep at night? They stole money from people.

Oi. Yes, you. You, that enjoyed the game. I'm very happy for you. I have a question: How can you justify Bioware removing content from the game just so they can shill you out of $20 more? How can you justify them lying to their console market about including auto-attack (and they did not just-- "Oops! Hee hee!"-- forgot to put it in). How can you justify their attacks on their customers after they fraudulently took their money?

I enjoyed some parts of the game, for sure. But, even if this were the most amazing game of all time, I would not be able to justify Bioware's actions throughout the past year.

It's unnerving to see people give the company a pass on its behaviour just because they like the game.

[Torhagen]

If they indeed do listen we will see with ME3 it will be an indictator for that.

[Bejos_]

Addai67 wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

I think people are reading too much into the word "innovation"...it's just PR-speak. No publically-traded company is going to fall on their sword and admit their product was terrible. They're not going to come out and say, "We screwed up, plain and simple. Sorry about that, old bean!"

Now that would be a welcome innovation.

Whenever I see a company going south I think, "You know, it would be nice if they hit rock bottom and learned some lessons about how to treat their customers." Same goes for this. There are some talented and dedicated people at Bioware, and if some other, not-so-talented or -dedicated people at Bioware would just leave the company, things could be a lot peachier.

This would mean they'd have to be abandoned by EA, of course ... So it'll take another 10 or 15 years for us to see them return to form, if ever.

But maybe this meandering path will lead to something good, eventually? Time tells.

[Feanor_II]

erynnar wrote...

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Innovation and DA2 in one sentence? 

Boggles the mind, really.

The friendship/rivalry system wasn't an innovation? Or the way characterisation was tracked? 

Umm... no?

I agree with Greg on this. No, not really. The Friendship/Rivalry needs a lot more work, more detail, something. But when I badger my companions just to drive the rivalry and then they romance me?

And characterization? Really? Again, I must be missing the just copious amounts others got. I did two playthroughs, hubby did two. There were changes in dialogue, but not much. And one of my Hawkes wound up sounding like she had personality affect disorder when I tried to make her more like a real human with subtleties. I prefer to make my own personality. Then my PC's don't wind up so one dimensional.

Yeah, I don't see any innovation in F/R system. In DA:O we had Approval/Disapproval system, it was  similiar, i think i t was even deeper, with higher approval you got "improvements" for the companion with disapproval.... Hell! You could lose him/her or eve have to dight him/her to death, I don't se that in F/R, if you are friend dialogue becomes nicer, if you are rivals it becames harsher, either way when you reach to the end of one of the sides the companion inmediately gets an improvement. That's all.

Yeah, I know that i f Friendship or Rivalry isn't high enough you can lose your companion at certain points.... but I don't see it the same to tell the truth...... Again a simplier version of the system from DA:O

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

I think people are reading too much into the word "innovation"...it's just PR-speak. No publically-traded company is going to fall on their sword and admit their product was terrible. They're not going to come out and say, "We screwed up, plain and simple. Sorry about that, old bean!"

Now that would be a welcome innovation.

Except that they don't have to say something they don't necessarily believe. And such a statement would be a slap in the face for those who actually do like the game.

[upsettingshorts]

Feanor_II wrote...

Yeah, I don't see any innovation in F/R system.

Again a simplier version of the system from DA:O

*facedesk*

Only on the BSN is "<----|---->" simpler than "-------->"

[Kimberly Shaw]

I really disliked DA2, while loving DAO...not much of a shock there, I'm like most people except Persephone the chirping spammer of this thread who defends her beloved DA2 like a mother with a retarded child claiming her kid is "special" and "misunderstood" while everyone else sniggers and shys away.

That out of the way, she's welcome to her opinion.

I'm REALLY displeased with this line about Hawke being the protganist for DA3. I actually probably won't buy it if Hawke is the PC again. Sorry, DA2 left a bitter, ugly taste in my mouth and playing as Hawke again will be like licking last night's dinner plates for breakfast after said dinner gave me food poisoning.

Biggest peeves with DA2:
- oddly, waves and enemies that spawn from no where. I really LOVED how DAO had pre-placed enemies in locations and how you could plan for it and scout. Trying to win that battle that you're supposed to lose and be captured? Love. Scouting ahead in stealth? Laying traps? LOVED that about DAO. Hate the ninja drops from the sky and randomly spawning like an MMO enemies of DA2.
-lack of meaningful choices...the 3rd act and ending of DA2 was one of the worst ever in an RPG for me. Rushed, senseless, the actions of the enchanter as a WTF and not in a good way. And the final boss fight was ridiculous.
-Combat was faster than Origins which was good, and the skill trees were good, but the exploding corpses and ridiculous jumping around 10 feet to slice an enemy? Stupid. Cartoonish. Japanime-ish.
- Kirkwall was the most boring city ever and didn't evovle at all in the 7 years. Should have been sandbox. Felt like 3 separate zones rather than one cohesive city, and the stupid stylized map didn't help anything.
-And yes, the incredible recycled content without even bothering to adjust the mini-map so you couldn't see what was really there? LAZY. USELESS.

Oh wait it's turned into the constructive cricitism thread. So over this game, but in the interest of DA3 those are things you need to work on.

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

I think people are reading too much into the word "innovation"...it's just PR-speak. No publically-traded company is going to fall on their sword and admit their product was terrible. They're not going to come out and say, "We screwed up, plain and simple. Sorry about that, old bean!"

Now that would be a welcome innovation.

Except that they don't have to say something they don't necessarily believe. And such a statement would be a slap in the face for those who actually do like the game.

They don't have to say something they don't believe.  I mean say something actually honest without trying to spin it with PRspeak.  "People disliking their innovations" once again makes it sound like the stodgy, backward customer is the problem.  Just say "we did some things well, we failed in other areas."  There are things about DA2 that almost everyone agrees are glaring faults.

[Feanor_II]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Yeah, I don't see any innovation in F/R system.

Again a simplier version of the system from DA:O

*facedesk*

Only on the BSN is "<----|---->" simpler than "-------->"

Well I really think that, look, I really disliked Merrill and I maxed out rivalry with her, consequence? New hablity. Aveline was the character I most liked, very soon I maxed Friendshio with her, consequence? Mew hability, thwo roads for the same goal. It's even possible to romance a character only having high F/R level, didn't matter on which direction.... I DA:O it wasn' like this ----->, i t was also <-------------->, maxing approval better relation with companion, romance, improvements etc...., lower approval, well there could be trouble, no improvements.....

In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

[csfteeeer]

FJVP wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Can someone actually link me to the videos/websites/whatever where Bioware bashed Origins? I'd love to see it, lol.

Click

WOW.
just..... WOW.
i have not seen this amount to of untrue over-hype since Peter Molyneux said Fable II was gonna be the "Greatest role playing game of all time, The Perfect Role Playing Game!"

[jlb524]

Feanor_II wrote...

In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

And when you failed...go buy them a shiny necklace and things were all good once again.

[Mr.House]

Feanor_II wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Yeah, I don't see any innovation in F/R system.

Again a simplier version of the system from DA:O

*facedesk*

Only on the BSN is "<----|---->" simpler than "-------->"

Well I really think that, look, I really disliked Merrill and I maxed out rivalry with her, consequence? New hablity. Aveline was the character I most liked, very soon I maxed Friendshio with her, consequence? Mew hability, thwo roads for the same goal. It's even possible to romance a character only having high F/R level, didn't matter on which direction.... I DA:O it wasn' like this ----->, i t was also <-------------->, maxing approval better relation with companion, romance, improvements etc...., lower approval, well there could be trouble, no improvements.....

In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

Rival Aveline and see what happens to you in Act 3, friendship Merrill and see the diffrent way she treats Hawke. The only character that suffered from the F/R system was Seb because demons have nothing to do with him becomiong Prince....

If I keep on pissing someoff in DAO, no new idalog  unless your at certain locations, if I keep pissing osmeone off in DA2 I get new dialog that fits the path and there feelings. there needs to be more tweaks but it's hell of alot better then the system DAO had.

[Tirfan]

^^ The main thing here was that the gifts kind of ruined the whole approva/disapproval thing - along with the fact that the meter was visible which made metagaming really easy and allowed every character to like you - but I restrained myself, I can do that sometimes too - didn't give gifts to companions my characters clearly disliked and they usually ended up not liking my warden to the point of fighting him to dead or leaving. If you go that route and try to actually play your character, approval/disapproval did make a lot more sense than friendship/rivalry.

Modifié par Tirfan, 14 juin 2011 - 07:07 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

FJVP wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Can someone actually link me to the videos/websites/whatever where Bioware bashed Origins? I'd love to see it, lol.

Click

HOLY F***.  This guy is a total tool. Sorry, I think what he said there is punishable by making him find another line of work.  Ugh.

Major FAIL.

[Feanor_II]

jlb524 wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

And when you failed...go buy them a shiny necklace and things were all good once again.

Of course! Another feature removed from DA2, but..........
1) If you give the wrong gift to a certain character the approval will go down
2) It is helpfull to solve certain situations, but you can't abuse of this because it's efectivite will be lower the more you use gifts.

[jlb524]

Tirfan wrote...

^^ The main thing here was that the gifts kind of ruined the whole approva/disapproval thing - along with the fact that the meter was visible which made metagaming really easy and allowed every character to like you - but I restrained myself, I can do that sometimes too - didn't give gifts to companions my characters clearly disliked and they usually ended up not liking my warden to the point of fighting him to dead or leaving. If you go that route and try to actually play your character, approval/disapproval did make a lot more sense than friendship/rivalry.

Then you could also play the F/R rival system in such a way for it to make the most sense for you.

What it does is give more options for interacting with the characters in different ways, instead of just not interacting with them at all or fully interacting with them.

[kuroshimodo]

Dragon Age 2 in general didn't have any sort of an impact and felt like a cookie cutter template was used. All Dragon Age 2 really was, was just fireworks. At first you go ooh then afterwards there is nothing left,"but my golly it was cool while it lasted." By confining the player to play one certain character, the world wasn't immersible like Dragon Age: Origins was. You were the bad ass Hawke going around being the bad ass he/she were born as.

Hawke losing his family over the years wasn't really that big of an impact considering the Warden had to leave everything they knew behind and embrace a new fate that was against their choosing. Sure, Dragon Age 2 used a similar plot device and it is an easy one to use but the main difference between how Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 applied such a plot device was in their execution. Concerning the party members available, there hardly was, if any, connection to be form with the player. Identifying with the party members including Hawke and the "struggles" they were going through, was incredibly lacking in Dragon Age 2. There was no depth to their personalities or their back story it seemed. Sure you can easily say what mold they were fashion from but what materials were use to shape them is a challenge since the craftsman rushed his efforts and didn't give time to add details to his work.

The story, characters, and setting were exceptionally dull and quite frankly I have yet to beat the game for I find it is rather boring and it doesn't effectively grasp my attention. How the quests are set up reinforce the lack of intrigue that Dragon Age 2 had brought to the table. The battle system and their choice of leveling dynamics, hindered, if not void, the need to choose wisely on how to build your character as well as how to effectively advance your character. There were no limits on how "awesome" and powerful you could make your characters, but by doing so, there were severe limitations on how to make a meaningful and rich character that the player could craft.

On that note, an RPG should have the player create a character they want however challenging the player by having them to start off average then as they progress, they could reach the zenith where their character is epic. The player should have to work to improve their character to become as awesome as Hawke pretty much started off as, which is in essence of what a good RPG should be rather than having everything readily available from the beginning to achieve epic status.

In this day and age, it would seem such values have decline drastically. It would seem the majority just wants to be entertain by fireworks rather than taking their time to enjoy the lasting impact of a product that a craftsman poured all his effort and the applications of his craft into. In short, it is hard to find players that can appreciate the video game craft, and disappointing and frustrating to see those who posses such a craft but don't apply it. However this my sound like I am complaining but sadly what I have mentioned is what I notice to truly be the trend that affects the video game industry this age.

To the mods and to the member whom started this thread, I do apologize if my reply had strayed off topic.

[Tirfan]

jlb524 wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

^^ The main thing here was that the gifts kind of ruined the whole approva/disapproval thing - along with the fact that the meter was visible which made metagaming really easy and allowed every character to like you - but I restrained myself, I can do that sometimes too - didn't give gifts to companions my characters clearly disliked and they usually ended up not liking my warden to the point of fighting him to dead or leaving. If you go that route and try to actually play your character, approval/disapproval did make a lot more sense than friendship/rivalry.

Then you could also play the F/R rival system in such a way for it to make the most sense for you.

What it does is give more options for interacting with the characters in different ways, instead of just not interacting with them at all or fully interacting with them.

I just can't see why they would stay with my character if they thought he was a complete dick, does not compute. I'll have to admit that maybe some of my problems with this may stem from the fact that I never could get into character with Hawke, for reasons I've stated already in multitude of threads.