738 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Feanor_II wrote...
1) If you give the wrong gift to a certain character the approval will go down

Only if you have that prank DLC...all other gifts give positive approval.  And if you give them a bad gift using the DLC, give them a few good ones to make up for it...

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Some fans have to go. They games they love are dead.

The Jilted Girlfriend fans ("We'll teach BioWare to so much as look at larger audiences!") have to go.

The Game Mechanics Are Sacred fans have to go. ME2 got friend of mine playing RPGs that I never would have imagined would play one. Dragon Age just needs to find their analogue of that model.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 14 juin 2011 - 07:14 .

[the_one_54321]

Feanor_II wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...
In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

And when you failed...go buy them a shiny necklace and things were all good once again.

Of course! Another feature removed from DA2, but..........
1) If you give the wrong gift to a certain character the approval will go down
2) It is helpfull to solve certain situations, but you can't abuse of this because it's efectivite will be lower the more you use gifts.

The friendship/rivalry system was clearly more dynamic than the approval system. Maybe it did or didn't work better or was or wasn't better recieved, but objectivley it was certainly more dynamic.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Some fans have to go. They games they love are dead.

Some fans have to go. They are killing the games we love.

See what I did there? 

Modifié par the_one_54321, 14 juin 2011 - 07:16 .

[jlb524]

Tirfan wrote...

I just can't see why they would stay with my character if they thought he was a complete dick, does not compute. I'll have to admit that maybe some of my problems with this may stem from the fact that I never could get into character with Hawke, for reasons I've stated already in multitude of threads.

Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

The Rival path also isn't about hating someone or thinking someone is a dick, it's mostly about disagreeing on one thing (Anders and the mages, for example) but still being able to get along and be friends in spite of that.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

the_one_54321 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Some fans have to go. They games they love are dead.

Some fans have to go. They are killing the games we love.

See what I did there? 

Admitted you're one of the people holding the progression of RPGs back?  :P:P

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

When they hit -100 they leave, all of them except Alistair and Dog.

[Mr.House]

Feanor_II wrote...
Of course! Another feature removed from DA2, but..........
1) If you give the wrong gift to a certain character the approval will go down
2) It is helpfull to solve certain situations, but you can't abuse of this because it's efectivite will be lower the more you use gifts.

It was a featuyre that deserved to be removed because it brought in metagaming and destroyed the whole point of the system. Why fans like you who hate everything asbout DA2 and cling to DAO like it's your babay are still on this site is beyond me.

The gift system is better in DA2, just more gifts since all the gifts in DA2 had a meaning not "Oh here's a ring for you Morrigan." like it was in DAO.

[jlb524]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

When they hit -100 they leave, all of them except Alistair and Dog.

But they won't leave at -99?

Seems like they should...

[Mr.House]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

When they hit -100 they leave, all of them except Alistair and Dog.

With hardly any dialog to fit there path, Fenris, Anders(though he comes back to be stupid) and Izzy can all leave/be betrayed. It's no diffrent. At least in DA2 there is dialog to lead up to it, not "I hate you so I'm leaving now."

[Relix28]

Here's a 4 hour long interview that pretty much sums up BioWare's vision of DA2.

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Relix28, 14 juin 2011 - 07:23 .

[erynnar]

jlb524 wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

In DA:O you should try your best to keep high approval on a party with different personalities, on DA2 you have to max F/R either side......

And when you failed...go buy them a shiny necklace and things were all good once again.

Yet that was your choice. You could give them gifts and gank it or not. It wasn't forced on you to do so. You could play without giving them one damn thing. The choice as always yours. That is why I don't understand the ****ing about the gifts. Seriously, just don't give them to them. Or only when it suits your version of your Warden's story. Did your Warden like to buy his/her friends? Well then bribe the hell out of them.

And Upsettingshorts  DAO was also <-------------------------------> , lets not over simplify DAO in favor of DA2 and I will try not to do the same.

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
But they won't leave at -99?

Seems like they should...

It's a game based on math, scripts trigger at certain value thresholds.

[the_one_54321]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Admitted you're one of the people holding the progression of RPGs back?  :P:P

"pew pew bang bang" is not progression. Especially not when there are a hundred other games that already do it better.

[jlb524]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
But they won't leave at -99?

Seems like they should...

It's a game based on math, scripts trigger at certain value thresholds.

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

[jlb524]

erynnar wrote...

Yet that was your choice. You could give them gifts and gank it or not. It wasn't forced on you to do so. You could play without giving them one damn thing. The choice as always yours. That is why I don't understand the ****ing about the gifts. Seriously, just don't give them to them. Or only when it suits your version of your Warden's story. Did your Warden like to buy his/her friends? Well then bribe the hell out of them.

And Upsettingshorts  DAO was also <-------------------------------> , lets not over simplify DAO in favor of DA2 and I will try not to do the same.

I don't mind the gifts, as it was my choice.  Same goes for tons of other stuff that people tend to complain about....

I was using it as an example.

[Tirfan]

jlb524 wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

I just can't see why they would stay with my character if they thought he was a complete dick, does not compute. I'll have to admit that maybe some of my problems with this may stem from the fact that I never could get into character with Hawke, for reasons I've stated already in multitude of threads.

Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

The Rival path also isn't about hating someone or thinking someone is a dick, it's mostly about disagreeing on one thing (Anders and the mages, for example) but still being able to get along and be friends in spite of that.

I don't know, I pretty much had to act like a complete dick around the characters I wanted to rival - I got those pesky friendship points for every other nice thing that I did and thought it wouldn't matter - I could max the rivalries only by frivolous metagaming and having a Hawke with Multiple Personality Disorder (okay, he had that for many reasons..)
I don't think approval/disapproval was perfect, far from it - I just found FR/R even worse, and making even less sense than approval/disapproval, both of them did encourage metagaming which is bad, and why I would want to see the scale hidden - even if it is the FR/R in future installments (if I decide to play them anyways..), but, what can you do.

[Melca36]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Some fans have to go. They games they love are dead.

The Jilted Girlfriend fans ("We'll teach BioWare to so much as look at larger audiences!") have to go.

The Game Mechanics Are Sacred fans have to go. ME2 got friend of mine playing RPGs that I never would have imagined would play one. Dragon Age just needs to find their analogue of that model.

Nope. They need make a compromise that appeals to all fanbases and somegamers need to stop being lazy and demand to have everything handed to them.

[the_one_54321]

jlb524 wrote...

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
But they won't leave at -99?
Seems like they should...

It's a game based on math, scripts trigger at certain value thresholds.

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Absolutely everything in life is based on math. People just often don't realize it.

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

There are none in a video game, they are sound files that play when certain conditions have been met, the problem with BioWare is that they want to make movies and not games. I would gladly take "Hello, I have to go." conversations for the ability to talk to someone whenever I wanted to. Like games should allow the player to do, not hold their hand at every single second showing them how to do every single thing like they just got kicked in the head by a mule. I felt like DA2's system was less interactive and less realistic because it was 100% NPC driven, player input and initiative was at best a minor inconveinence to the story. NPCs only said something when they wanted to, or they just blabbed at each other.

[jlb524]

Tirfan wrote...

I don't know, I pretty much had to act like a complete dick around the characters I wanted to rival - I got those pesky friendship points for every other nice thing that I did and thought it wouldn't matter - I could max the rivalries only by frivolous metagaming and having a Hawke with Multiple Personality Disorder (okay, he had that for many reasons..)
I don't think approval/disapproval was perfect, far from it - I just found FR/R even worse, and making even less sense than approval/disapproval, both of them did encourage metagaming which is bad, and why I would want to see the scale hidden - even if it is the FR/R in future installments (if I decide to play them anyways..), but, what can you do.

Both systems have their flaws.  The point is that the F/R system provides more options/variety in how you approach a character.  I personally don't really care for the rival paths with the majority of the companions and choose not to go through them.  You seem to have a problem with them too.  On the other hand, others prefer the rival paths for some characters and feel it makes sense and feel Hawke isn't acting like a douche.  It still is giving more options, beyond having one path where they like you and you get to hear all of their dialog/character dev or they don't and they stop speaking to you.

adneate wrote...
I felt like DA2's system was less interactive and less realistic because it was 100% NPC driven, player input and
initiative was at best a minor inconveinence to the story. NPCs only said something when they wanted to, or they just blabbed at each other.

I do think they need to work on that a bit.   I do like that they limited interactions to specific times/places so they could do more with them by making the dialog dependent on context:  plot or a previous event.   However, I wish they added in some more Origins style dialog that was 'anytime and anywhere' and that the PC could initate. 

Modifié par jlb524, 14 juin 2011 - 07:36 .

[billy the squid]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

I really disliked DA2, while loving DAO...not much of a shock there, I'm like most people except Persephone the chirping spammer of this thread who defends her beloved DA2 like a mother with a retarded child claiming her kid is "special" and "misunderstood" while everyone else sniggers and shys away.

That out of the way, she's welcome to her opinion.

I'm REALLY displeased with this line about Hawke being the protganist for DA3. I actually probably won't buy it if Hawke is the PC again. Sorry, DA2 left a bitter, ugly taste in my mouth and playing as Hawke again will be like licking last night's dinner plates for breakfast after said dinner gave me food poisoning.

Biggest peeves with DA2:
- oddly, waves and enemies that spawn from no where. I really LOVED how DAO had pre-placed enemies in locations and how you could plan for it and scout. Trying to win that battle that you're supposed to lose and be captured? Love. Scouting ahead in stealth? Laying traps? LOVED that about DAO. Hate the ninja drops from the sky and randomly spawning like an MMO enemies of DA2.
-lack of meaningful choices...the 3rd act and ending of DA2 was one of the worst ever in an RPG for me. Rushed, senseless, the actions of the enchanter as a WTF and not in a good way. And the final boss fight was ridiculous.
-Combat was faster than Origins which was good, and the skill trees were good, but the exploding corpses and ridiculous jumping around 10 feet to slice an enemy? Stupid. Cartoonish. Japanime-ish.
- Kirkwall was the most boring city ever and didn't evovle at all in the 7 years. Should have been sandbox. Felt like 3 separate zones rather than one cohesive city, and the stupid stylized map didn't help anything.
-And yes, the incredible recycled content without even bothering to adjust the mini-map so you couldn't see what was really there? LAZY. USELESS.

Oh wait it's turned into the constructive cricitism thread. So over this game, but in the interest of DA3 those are things you need to work on.

Oh, wow the first two paragraph made me laugh,quite harsh, but accurate and funny none the less.

I too, am not best pleased with the direction DA2 took, the points above are some of my biggest gripes allong with a huge list of others, which I won't bother to repeat here. Some of the ideas in DA2 were not bad even if they were not especially innovative, but they were terribly implemented, particularly as some were so blatantly pinched from ME2 etc. It is so blatant, that it seems some things were simply cut and pasted into the game rather than integrated to make sure that it fit. Other "innovations" just shouldn't have been in the game.I think they need to take a long hard look at what they are actually trying to do, I would prefer the developers to go back to DAO and fix the problems whilst refining and expanding aspects rather than dumbing everything down and adding gimicks once the game has released and trying to boost pre orders.

But, considering what has been said by Mr. Laidlaw and 180s I worry, and regard most of what has come out of the EA/ BioWare PR machine as complete rubbish and a desperate attempts to defend the product. In part, due to the attempt to tap the casual market which blew up in their face and they managed to pi** off a sizable portion of the core market upon which they rely.

Regarding the voiced protagonist, whilst I'm not against the concept, It is a bit of a double edged sword if one enjoys thwe voice it can add to the game, but if it is hated, well you're stuck. In addition it is going to limit the character customisation with reference to choosing race, unless EA wants to shell out for more actors, which given the current approach isn't going to happen any time soon

Personally,  voice acting in DA2 made me cringe, after a while I wanted to cave in Hawke's face, compounded by some of the dialogue "I want to be a dragon" oh for f*ck sake. really? I look at DAO and then at DA2 and I left wondering what the hell happened? If this is what EA class' as innovation then, they can keep it, I'm giving my money to another developer.

Modifié par billy the squid, 14 juin 2011 - 07:36 .

[Mr.House]

Tirfan wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

I just can't see why they would stay with my character if they thought he was a complete dick, does not compute. I'll have to admit that maybe some of my problems with this may stem from the fact that I never could get into character with Hawke, for reasons I've stated already in multitude of threads.

Well, the Origins companions will still stay with you, for the most part, they just won't talk to you.

The Rival path also isn't about hating someone or thinking someone is a dick, it's mostly about disagreeing on one thing (Anders and the mages, for example) but still being able to get along and be friends in spite of that.

I don't know, I pretty much had to act like a complete dick around the characters I wanted to rival - I got those pesky friendship points for every other nice thing that I did and thought it wouldn't matter - I could max the rivalries only by frivolous metagaming and having a Hawke with Multiple Personality Disorder (okay, he had that for many reasons..)
I don't think approval/disapproval was perfect, far from it - I just found FR/R even worse, and making even less sense than approval/disapproval, both of them did encourage metagaming which is bad, and why I would want to see the scale hidden - even if it is the FR/R in future installments (if I decide to play them anyways..), but, what can you do.

Funny, I have rivaled everyone but Seb and Izzy. I only acted like a dick a couple of times but hardly that much.

You say metagaming, I never metagame once when it comes to the companions, it's not hard to figure these characters out and know what will please them and what will ****** off. No diffrent then DAO. Hell of alot better then say ME1/2 where you can be a dick to everyone and then bel ike "sleep with me!"

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Realistically people break relationships when it reaches a point they can no longer bear it, usually because something happens that deteriorates relationship even further it already was. It's our equivalent of crossing the threshold and triggering the event.

So you have a character at 99 -- they think the relationship overall stinks, but there's some redeeming qualities and maybe it'll get better. Then things get worse and they come to realization things are just too bad to hope or bother anymore. It's that equivalent of proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 juin 2011 - 07:39 .

[Zjarcal]

Melca36 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Some fans have to go. They games they love are dead.

The Jilted Girlfriend fans ("We'll teach BioWare to so much as look at larger audiences!") have to go.

The Game Mechanics Are Sacred fans have to go. ME2 got friend of mine playing RPGs that I never would have imagined would play one. Dragon Age just needs to find their analogue of that model.

Nope. They need make a compromise that appeals to all fanbases and somegamers need to stop being lazy and demand to have everything handed to them.

While others need to stop being arrogant and assuming everyone else is "lazy".

[Mr.House]

You can not please everyone, to try to please everyone is futile. You will have a crappy game that appeals to NO one.