738 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

jlb524 wrote...

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

See? This guy gets it.

[Tirfan]

jlb524 wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

I don't know, I pretty much had to act like a complete dick around the characters I wanted to rival - I got those pesky friendship points for every other nice thing that I did and thought it wouldn't matter - I could max the rivalries only by frivolous metagaming and having a Hawke with Multiple Personality Disorder (okay, he had that for many reasons..)
I don't think approval/disapproval was perfect, far from it - I just found FR/R even worse, and making even less sense than approval/disapproval, both of them did encourage metagaming which is bad, and why I would want to see the scale hidden - even if it is the FR/R in future installments (if I decide to play them anyways..), but, what can you do.

Both systems have their flaws.  The point is that the F/R system provides more options/variety in how you approach a character.  I personally don't really care for the rival paths with the majority of the companions and choose not to go through them.  You seem to have a problem with them too.  On the other hand, others prefer the rival paths for some characters and feel it makes sense and feel Hawke isn't acting like a douche.  It still is giving more options, beyond having one path where they like you and you get to hear all of their dialog/character dev or they don't and they stop speaking to you.

I guess you do have a valid point there - I initially thought the friendship/rivalry thing was quite a nice idea, but after actually trying it out it just didn't work and make sense to me - if it would be made better - I think there have been some rather great ideas on the "mixing F/R with Approval/disapproval"- thread, I could perhaps warm up to it more, current incarnation of the system just was far more flawed than Approval/Disapproval, or so I think - if someone does actually like it, good for them.

[Mr.House]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

The sad cold truth.

[the_one_54321]

Zjarcal wrote...
While others need to stop being arrogant and assuming everyone else is "lazy".

No thank you. These games should be challenging. If you don't want them to be, play on "easy" but still expect it to be a challenge, or go play one of the thousand other games that offer no challenge at all.

[the_one_54321]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

Even literature?

Yes.

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

Yup: divide, add, subtract and then multiply.

Thank you, I'll be here all night.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yup: divide, add, subtract and then multiply.

Thank you, I'll be here all night.

[jlb524]

tmp7704 wrote...
Realistically people break relationships when it reaches a point they can no longer bear it, usually because something happens that deteriorates relationship even further it already was. It's our equivalent of crossing the threshold and triggering the event.

So you have a character at 99 -- they think the relationship overall stinks, but there's some redeeming qualities and maybe it'll get better. Then things get worse and they come to realization things are just too bad to hope or bother anymore. It's that equivalent of proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.

What's the difference between 98 and 99?  99 and 100?

100 and 101?  110 and 111? 

These go to 111 in my game. 

And what actually happens to cross the line from 99 to 100?  In game, it could be a simple little thing or a huge thing that grants you that extra point and 'breaks the camel's back'.  It's kind of arbitrary.

[the_one_54321]

jlb524 wrote...
What's the difference between 98 and 99?  99 and 100?

100 and 101?  110 and 111? 

These go to 111 in my game. 

And what actually happens to cross the line from 99 to 100?  In game, it could be a simple little thing or a huge thing that grants you that extra point and 'breaks the camel's back'.  It's kind of arbitrary.

Have you ever heard the phrase "straw that broke the camels back?" This is what that phrase refers to.

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

What's the difference between 98 and 99?  99 and 100?

The same difference that makes people go from "this relationship sucks" to "this relationship sucks" to "we're through."

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 juin 2011 - 07:56 .

[Zjarcal]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
While others need to stop being arrogant and assuming everyone else is "lazy".

No thank you. These games should be challenging. If you don't want them to be, play on "easy" but still expect it to be a challenge, or go play one of the thousand other games that offer no challenge at all.

Aha... and when did I say I don't want a challenge? I said people shouldn't assume everyone else is lazy just because they liked something different.

And I play on Nightmare, so yeah.

[the_one_54321]

Zjarcal wrote...
And I play on Nightmare, so yeah.

Then what is the problem? You weren't among those being referenced, obviously.

[jlb524]

the_one_54321 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
What's the difference between 98 and 99?  99 and 100?

100 and 101?  110 and 111? 

These go to 111 in my game. 

And what actually happens to cross the line from 99 to 100?  In game, it could be a simple little thing or a huge thing that grants you that extra point and 'breaks the camel's back'.  It's kind of arbitrary.

Have you ever heard the phrase "straw that broke the camels back?" This is what that phrase refers to.

Yes...but my point is that the thing that breaks the camel's back is usually something of a significant degree of suck, but in the case of this approval thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be...it depends on what happened to grant you that last change in one approval point.

tmp7704 wrote...

The same difference that makes people go from "this relationship sucks" to "this relationship sucks" to "we're through."

And that can vary greatly for the same character in the context of this game...which is a bit odd.

Modifié par jlb524, 14 juin 2011 - 07:56 .

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
And what actually happens to cross the line from 99 to 100?  In game, it could be a simple little thing or a huge thing that grants you that extra point and 'breaks the camel's back'.  It's kind of arbitrary.

It's equally arbitrary in DA2, I treated Fenris like dirt the whole game and sided with the mages on everything. Yet he acts surprised and angry at the choice I make at the end of the game. Evidently he didn't understand that the years of not listening to him on anything would mean that I still wouldn't listen to him at the end of the game. At least Origins arbitrary system was honest and clearly a familiar video game mechanic, DA2's system just seemed like a way to keep the story and the gameplay as seperate as possible. Whereby you could treat a NPC like garbage in the story part but still use them for the video game portion.

[the_one_54321]

jlb524 wrote...
Yes...but my point is that the thing that breaks the camel's back is usually something of a significant degree of suck,

No, actually it's referring to something that might be otherwise completely trivial. Hence why it's a straw that breaks the camel's back. It's the one tiny thing on top of the piles of other bad stuff that has added up that finally just barely nudges things over the edge.

[Kimberly Shaw]

jlb524 wrote...


Yes...but my point is that the thing that breaks the camel's back is usually something of a significant degree of suck, but in the case of this approval thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be...it depends on what happened to grant you that last change in one approval point.

What are you talking about??? The saying goes "THE STRAW that broke the camel's back" meaning it's a tiny bit of weight that finally caused the break.  It's not the BRICK that broke the camels back.  You fail at comprehension of sayings and life.

Please go off the internet now.

[Zjarcal]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
And I play on Nightmare, so yeah.

Then what is the problem? You weren't among those being referenced, obviously.

The problem is that making generalizations and assumptions is wrong. You can't assume people that didn't like "x" element of Origins are lazy just because you want to think that.

[Mr.House]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
And what actually happens to cross the line from 99 to 100?  In game, it could be a simple little thing or a huge thing that grants you that extra point and 'breaks the camel's back'.  It's kind of arbitrary.

It's equally arbitrary in DA2, I treated Fenris like dirt the whole game and sided with the mages on everything. Yet he acts surprised and angry at the choice I make at the end of the game. Evidently he didn't understand that the years of not listening to him on anything would mean that I still wouldn't listen to him at the end of the game. At least Origins arbitrary system was honest and clearly a familiar video game mechanic, DA2's system just seemed like a way to keep the story and the gameplay as seperate as possible. Whereby you could treat a NPC like garbage in the story part but still use them for the video game portion.

It's on diffrent then treating Alistair like crap and waiting for the whole game to get rid of him. At least with Fenris you can get rid of him during the game or simply don't recruit him.

[Mr.House]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


Yes...but my point is that the thing that breaks the camel's back is usually something of a significant degree of suck, but in the case of this approval thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be...it depends on what happened to grant you that last change in one approval point.

What are you talking about??? The saying goes "THE STRAW that broke the camel's back" meaning it's a tiny bit of weight that finally caused the break.  It's not the BRICK that broke the camels back.  You fail at comprehension of sayings and life.

Please go off the internet now.

Don't be a jerkass.

[Nozybidaj]

Merllle wrote...
Very recently, this article has been published.

Something that baffled me about this was this particular quote:

"But to be honest, we lost some fans as well. They were not pleased with
some of the innovations and things we'd done. We understand that and
we're listening."

That's a pretty significant statement I think.  Every thing said to the public by the EA marketing machine is watered down and made as palatable and positive to the general public as possible.  To say something that even remotely rings of a negative or possible displeased tone means something fairly significant happened.  I'm honestly surprised that anything could come out of EA/Bioware even remotely resembling that comment.

[the_one_54321]

Zjarcal wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
And I play on Nightmare, so yeah.

Then what is the problem? You weren't among those being referenced, obviously.

The problem is that making generalizations and assumptions is wrong. You can't assume people that didn't like "x" element of Origins are lazy just because you want to think that.

You can when all they ask is that it be "easier" or "less complicated."
Marketing calls any simplification "streamlining" because nothing you feed the public is ever supposed to sound bad. but if you understand that they will paint absolutely everything in a positive light, you should see that sometimes simplification is really just simplification. And the people that are asking for this just want the game to be easier and less complicated to play. And one valid interpretation of this desire is just plain laziness.

[alex90c]

It's on diffrent then treating Alistair like crap and waiting for the
whole game to get rid of him. At least with Fenris you can get rid of
him during the game or simply don't recruit him.

How could anyone ever treat Alistair like crap

Modifié par alex90c, 14 juin 2011 - 08:04 .