738 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Xayoz wrote...

The game just forces you into this one role.
You are Hawke. You are the champion. You do what is right and heroic.
But what if you want to play a rogue who only cares about coin and getting out of this mess with mages and templars, alive?
What if you want to be a mage who is all for killing every single templar, not matter the means?
A warrior that actually believes ridding the world of mages is for the best?

All I really wanted to see was more than one predetermined path to reach the final outcome (witch I tough was perfectly fine).
Even 2 would have been fine.
Witcher 2 for instance, is a good example of how this could have been done.

Well, my Canon Warden never wanted to be a Warden and loathed Duncan for blackmailing her dying father into it. She wanted nothing to do with the Blight either.

[Mr.House]

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

[Persephone]

wastelander75 wrote...

I wonder if this argument would have been as bad if this hadn't been a "sequel" of sorts, but rather an expansion/offshoot of the franchise's namesake.

I mean, would we be comparing DAO to DA2 if it had been called...simply enough

Dragon Age: Champions, or Dragon Age: Exile, etc. hence, it's not a true "sequel" to the original, but rather a Branch on the same tree.

It's odd that as simple a thing as a number could (for some at least) cause such a rift between old and new.

I think that they should have used their original name for the game. Which was Dragon Age: Exodus.

[Xewaka]

Master Shiori wrote...
The fact that the camp gets wiped out makes no difference ingame. Once I've completed "Nature of the Beast" I have no reason to return to Bracillian Forest unless I want to buy something from the dalish vendor or complete one of the side quests there.
Nobody notices that the Dalish are gone. The fact that they're gone has no impact on anything outside of who joins your army.
Therefore, the true consequences of curing the werewolves, killing them or the Dalish or Zathrian dying only become evident when the epilogue describes what happened in the months and years after your victory.
My choices of siding with mages or templars in DA2 won't have an effect on preventing the greater Mage vs Templar war from happening, but they will effect Kirkwall in the immediate future. Either many mages will survive the Annulment and new templars will eventualy arrive to restore order or I'll destroy the Circle and therefore ensure that Kirkwall remains stable without outside intervention, which could have disasterous consequences for the city (Exalted March).

So your choices in DA 2 only affect the epilogue, just like what you're critiquing DA:O for?

[Mr.House]

Xayoz wrote...

The game just forces you into this one role.
You are Hawke. You are the champion. You do what is right and heroic.
But what if you want to play a rogue who only cares about coin and getting out of this mess with mages and templars, alive?
What if you want to be a mage who is all for killing every single templar, not matter the means?
A warrior that actually believes ridding the world of mages is for the best?

All I really wanted to see was more than one predetermined path to reach the final outcome (witch I tough was perfectly fine).
Even 2 would have been fine.
Witcher 2 for instance, is a good example of how this could have been done.

You where forced into the Wardens in DAO, even if you said no you had no choice.

[Persephone]

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

[Huntress]

Xayoz wrote...

On the topic of choice.

The reason why I felt like this game gave my none is basically this...
Say, my character is a mage. A bloodmage even.
And I do what? I spend the better part of the game killing my potential allies, without any option of talking my way out of those fights.
This would be perfectly fine, if I where to be role play someone strictly moral that maybe sympathizes with the templars.
However, what if I want to play as someone who wouldn't blink an eye at someone summoning demons and performing bloodmagic?
As this claims to be an RPG, I certainly feel like I should have had that option.
In truth, it really puzzles me why I didn't.
Surely it would not have been difficult to implement diplomatic solutions to many such quests or provide alternative ways of completing them, nor would it have prevented the game from reaching it's current conclusion.
There where oh so many instances where the game gave you no 'option b' for solving a quest, where as it clearly could and should have.
In the end, this left me incredibly frustrated and feeling like every dialogue was there simply to give you 3 different ways for reaching the same outcome.

The game just forces you into this one role.
You are Hawke. You are the champion. You do what is right and heroic.
But what if you want to play a rogue who only cares about coin and getting out of this mess with mages and templars, alive?
What if you want to be a mage who is all for killing every single templar, not matter the means?
A warrior that actually believes ridding the world of mages is for the best?

All I really wanted to see was more than one predetermined path to reach the final outcome (witch I tough was perfectly fine).
Even 2 would have been fine.
Witcher 2 for instance, is a good example of how this could have been done.

I felt the same, so many time I wanted to marry Lohgain and yet, only the stupid queen/Alistair was an option..
Killing all the city elves because they are not true elves, yet stuck on helping them, saving Feraldan while  my warden believed she was adopted from orlais.. Yes so many few choices I suppose we should ask Bioware to re-make DAO, I like more options you know..

[Blastback]

For my money, Origins made it feel like the desicions that the warden made had a real effect on the world. Yes, we only got to see some of them in text boxes, but others like the dalish were much more than just changes to who fought in the final battle. You are responsible for either the slaughter of an entire clan, or the werewolves being released from their curse. To me that is pretty signifigant change in outcome. And while some folks might not have cared for the text epilogues, I liked them. They told me enough about what kind of impact I ultimatly made. DA2 lacked that for me.

But more than that, the problem for me became one of whetear or not you could achive your goals. In Origins, your goal was kill the archdemon, and you couldn't fail. You didn't have a definate goal determined for you in DA2, which is both good and bad. It's a cool concept, but in my case, my goal became preventing a war between the mages and templars. Naturally I failed, which I found highly unsatifying. I came away feeling like I had ultimatly acomplished nothing as Hawke. Which in my opinion, doesn't make for a very rewarding experiance.

[Mr.House]

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

[Xayoz]

Persephone wrote...

Well, my Canon Warden never wanted to be a Warden and loathed Duncan for blackmailing her dying father into it. She wanted nothing to do with the Blight either.

Not saying that the plot should have different outcomes.Just different ways of reaching it.
Killing/not killing off all those bloodmages would be more like dealing with the dragon cultists in Origins.Even tough siding with them won't change much on the greater scale, you at least get the gratification from knowing you did what you tough was right.Dragon Age 2 never gave us such a opportunities.

[Persephone]

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

[tmp7704]

Master Shiori wrote...

My choices of siding with mages or templars in DA2 won't have an effect on preventing the greater Mage vs Templar war from happening, but they will effect Kirkwall in the immediate future.

But your choice "makes no difference ingame". And for this matter since you get the same epilogue no matter your choice, even the statements how there's difference for Kirkwall in the immediate future is pure conjecture and speculation, one not acknowledged or supported by the game itself.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 juin 2011 - 10:46 .

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

What if you're a rogue who constantly gets criticals then? Explosions galore, or ... ?

[Xayoz]

Huntress wrote...

I felt the same, so many time I wanted to marry Lohgain and yet, only the stupid queen/Alistair was an option..
Killing all the city elves because they are not true elves, yet stuck on helping them, saving Feraldan while  my warden believed she was adopted from orlais.. Yes so many few choices I suppose we should ask Bioware to re-make DAO, I like more options you know..

I am not impying I wish for the plot to be tailormade for my preference.

Simply - if there is a quest: "Go to loaction X and kill person Y"(That's what most of DA2's quests boil down to.) - why isn't there always a option for my character to go "Hm. Maybe I'd rather solve this in a different manner?".

Modifié par Xayoz, 14 juin 2011 - 10:55 .

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

What if you're a rogue who constantly gets criticals then? Explosions galore, or ... ?

Depends. They occur very seldomly now. I was playing as a rogue and they are no longer the norm whatsoever. If you want to be on the 100% safe side, the No Gibbing Mod offers several options to deal with them.

[erynnar]

Mr.House wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

It's curious that one of the arguments that Persephone uses to defend that choices matter in DA2 is that Grace's conversation changes if you release her or you give her to the templars..... BUT she doesn't accept that choices DA:O regarding elves/werewolves or templars/mages matter "just pixels in the final battle" Yeah, you go to Brescilian Forrest and you have killed elves, or you go to Orzammar and Drawes talk about Behlen or Harrowmot becoming finally king, no, those things don't matter, but a few sentences in Grace's dialogue do matter......

Let me set this straight: They matter as much to me as the differences in DAII. I liked both approaches but felt that they both lacked something. Neither system convinced me fully. And I am hoping that DA3 will change that.

This.
that's fair, and in THAT, i can agree with you, i'm not hoping they make The Witcher 2, but at least that they try a little harder.

I'm hoping they do take some cues from TW2 with main story choices maknig a real diffrence.

*Blows kisses at Mr. House* This!  ^ We may not always agree, but I respect you and Perse. And no, I don't want BioWare to turn DA into Witcher ( I loves me some companions, among other things), but yes! That would be an awesome thing to take from Witcher 2.

[Persephone]

tmp7704 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

My choices of siding with mages or templars in DA2 won't have an effect on preventing the greater Mage vs Templar war from happening, but they will effect Kirkwall in the immediate future.

But your choice "makes no difference ingame". And for this matter since you get the same epilogue no matter your choice, even the statements how there's difference for Kirkwall in the immediate future is pure conjecture and speculation, one not acknowledged or supported by the game itself.

Oh, but it is, by Varric, Cassandra and *Spoiler*. That's why I am so on edge for what happens next.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Melca36 wrote...

Nope. They need make a compromise that appeals to all fanbases and somegamers need to stop being lazy and demand to have everything handed to them.

Appeal to all fanbases is their best solution, I agree.  Dunno about the rest.

[erynnar]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

What if you're a rogue who constantly gets criticals then? Explosions galore, or ... ?

Depends. They occur very seldomly now. I was playing as a rogue and they are no longer the norm whatsoever. If you want to be on the 100% safe side, the No Gibbing Mod offers several options to deal with them.

The gibblets are gone? Or almost? HUZZAH!!!! I haven't installed my 1.03 yet. *does happy dance* Thanks "The Divine Miss P" you rock!

[Persephone]

erynnar wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

It's curious that one of the arguments that Persephone uses to defend that choices matter in DA2 is that Grace's conversation changes if you release her or you give her to the templars..... BUT she doesn't accept that choices DA:O regarding elves/werewolves or templars/mages matter "just pixels in the final battle" Yeah, you go to Brescilian Forrest and you have killed elves, or you go to Orzammar and Drawes talk about Behlen or Harrowmot becoming finally king, no, those things don't matter, but a few sentences in Grace's dialogue do matter......

Let me set this straight: They matter as much to me as the differences in DAII. I liked both approaches but felt that they both lacked something. Neither system convinced me fully. And I am hoping that DA3 will change that.

This.
that's fair, and in THAT, i can agree with you, i'm not hoping they make The Witcher 2, but at least that they try a little harder.

I'm hoping they do take some cues from TW2 with main story choices maknig a real diffrence.

*Blows kisses at Mr. House* This!  ^ We may not always agree, but I respect you and Perse. And no, I don't want BioWare to turn DA into Witcher ( I loves me some companions, among other things), but yes! That would be an awesome thing to take from Witcher 2.

Same here, Ery. (Luff!) I'm totally 100% in agreement there.

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

Its about one explosion for every dozen bodies for me. Its so much better.

[Persephone]

erynnar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Let's hope if Mike and Dave are back for DA3, they do a better job with there role(Not you Gaider, you are always awesome, just hope EA gives you more time when you write DA3)

If the time they are investing in the promised story DLC is an indication, this might happen. And I certainly hope so. Patch 1.03 alone improved the game in SO many ways!! 

I hope Luke was not just joking and they are going back to DAO to fix some import issues that can only be fixed from there, but yes the Patch really fixed alot, put that with the no exploding body mod and bodies never expldoe unless you use a certain spell or hit them very powerful.

The Patch itself fixed the Exploding Bodies issue. (A nasty bug) Now they only explode if you land a critical hit/use certain spells. Much more rarely. And that's the way I like it.

What if you're a rogue who constantly gets criticals then? Explosions galore, or ... ?

Depends. They occur very seldomly now. I was playing as a rogue and they are no longer the norm whatsoever. If you want to be on the 100% safe side, the No Gibbing Mod offers several options to deal with them.

The gibblets are gone? Or almost? HUZZAH!!!! I haven't installed my 1.03 yet. *does happy dance* Thanks "The Divine Miss P" you rock!

They still do happen in Varric's exaggerated prologue (Makes sense) but overall, in my latest playthrough (Without the No Gibbing mod) they were reduced by....I'd say at least 75%.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
But...but.. we're talking about realistic social interactions and not math.

Everything is math.

See? This guy gets it.

You both fail.  Math is a tool to describe events.  It is nothing more. 

You can focus on games that left you track, rate, and examine the variables of kissing Leliana. 

Me, I'd rather be kissing Leliana.

[csfteeeer]

Mr.House wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

It's curious that one of the arguments that Persephone uses to defend that choices matter in DA2 is that Grace's conversation changes if you release her or you give her to the templars..... BUT she doesn't accept that choices DA:O regarding elves/werewolves or templars/mages matter "just pixels in the final battle" Yeah, you go to Brescilian Forrest and you have killed elves, or you go to Orzammar and Drawes talk about Behlen or Harrowmot becoming finally king, no, those things don't matter, but a few sentences in Grace's dialogue do matter......

Let me set this straight: They matter as much to me as the differences in DAII. I liked both approaches but felt that they both lacked something. Neither system convinced me fully. And I am hoping that DA3 will change that.

This.
that's fair, and in THAT, i can agree with you, i'm not hoping they make The Witcher 2, but at least that they try a little harder.

I'm hoping they do take some cues from TW2 with main story choices maknig a real diffrence.

mmmm

yeah that would be absolutely wonderful, i'm just not gonna over hype myself if it doens't turn out to be like that.