738 réponses à ce sujet

[ddv.rsa]

Persephone wrote...

Already pre-ordered ME3 a while back. Don't regret it at all.

Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.

[Aaleel]

I won't preorder DA3.

I have no doubts that they'll change some things, but what those things are will determine whether or not I buy the game. There were some things that just made the game not fun or engaging for me to play, and if those things are still there in DA3, it's a no buy.

[Elhanan]

I prefer to read what the Good Doctor's say for themselves rather than another outside spokesperson:

http://www.gamasutra...ctors_speak.php

[Bejos_]

Elhanan wrote...

I prefer to read what the Good Doctor's say for themselves rather than another outside spokesperson:

http://www.gamasutra...ctors_speak.php

They sound like pretty decent guys. (There are a few things I could nit pick. They could also just be good salesmen. But they do seem like decent guys.) They do fail to instill their ethics into their Marketing, PR and some other employees.
Bit of a shame, really. Since they're actively associating with and engaging the worse aspects of those departments and of some of their employees, I have to assume they don't mind what those people are doing.
Yeah, bit of a shame.

Edit: In other words (cliche time!), "Actions speak louder than words".

Modifié par Bejos_, 15 juin 2011 - 03:43 .

[Elhanan]

Bejos_ wrote...

They sound like pretty decent guys. (There are a few things I could nit pick. They could also just be good salesmen. But they do seem like decent guys.) They do fail to instill their ethics into their Marketing, PR and some other employees.
Bit of a shame, really. Since they're actively associating with and engaging the worse aspects of those departments and of some of their employees, I have to assume they don't mind what those people are doing.
Yeah, bit of a shame.

Edit: In other words (cliche time!), "Actions speak louder than words".

Careful it ain't raining with that elevated POV....

[Brockololly]

Elhanan wrote...

I prefer to read what the Good Doctor's say for themselves rather than another outside spokesperson:

http://www.gamasutra...ctors_speak.php

Except the "outside spokesperson" in the Eurogamer interview is Frank Gibeau, the EA Games Label President. Who I'm pretty sure is higher up on the EA food chain than the Doctors.

[the_one_54321]

Elhanan wrote...
I prefer to read what the Good Doctor's say for themselves rather than another outside spokesperson:
http://www.gamasutra...ctors_speak.php

While I certainly don't begrudge you liking the game, I can't help but feel that you're putting everything through a no-negative-outlook filter here. Remember that "the game had some serious problems" is not the same as "the game was an absolute pile of crap." I can understand your frustration with the folks that insist, despite all reason and any example that the game was a pile of crap and there's no good reason to like it whatsoever, but don't become part of the equal and opposite crowd that close their eyes to all forms of fair criticism and insist that the game was wonderful despite all reason and example to the contrary.

The game was not a pile of crap, largely because it came from DA:O and what it kept from DA:O was still pretty darn awesome and it did a couple of new things that worked well. However, the game very obviously suffered a lot from being rushed out in 18 months instead of 2-4 years and that showed up with glaring obviousness.

[FieryDove]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.

I disagree. I think the DA team listens far better than the ME team ever did. I bought me2 because of 1. Won't be getting 3 on promises even if they (Marketing) promise a free barney shoot mini-game and the Best pew-pew Game EVAR!.

Its good we all like different things, I'm sure the Devs would be bored to tears with a forum where everyone got along *and* liked everything.

[Jerrybnsn]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Already pre-ordered ME3 a while back. Don't regret it at all.

Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.

I felt the same way, until I played the Arrival dlc and its treatment was very similar to the DA dlc that was being pushed out last summer.  But maybe, the fact that they pushed back the ME3 release after the DAII backlash caused them to re-evaluate what they were planning to put out originally for November of this year.

It caused me to cancel my pre-order and wait to read more about it. DLC is no big deal for me because any extra weapon or a mission really doesn't add much to the game, so I don't mind just buying the game new if I hear the reviews from the fans are good/great.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 juin 2011 - 05:08 .

[Perles75]

Persephone wrote...

They really are trying very hard, esp. on the forums. To look for "apologies" in interviews/press releases is beyond naive.

What the devs are doing here (David, Mike, Luke, Rob etc.) matters more to me than any press release. Bioware doesn't care at all about its customers......what hogwash. Why ARE the devs still putting up with coming to the cesspool this forum has become?<_<

Definitely true...

[the_one_54321]

FieryDove wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...
Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.

I disagree. I think the DA team listens far better than the ME team ever did. I bought me2 because of 1. Won't be getting 3 on promises even if they (Marketing) promise a free barney shoot mini-game and the Best pew-pew Game EVAR!.

Its good we all like different things, I'm sure the Devs would be bored to tears with a forum where everyone got along *and* liked everything.

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with you here. The ME team heard quite clearly that something needed to change from ME1 to ME2. It so happened that they went the route of making it an all out shooter, possibly because a lot of shooter fans came to play ME1, which hence, was the the reason fans were complaining about the stat driven aiming.

I think that they could have also gone the opposite route and made ME2 basically with play identical to DA:O, except with guns and shield generators, but that's not the direction they chose. What was most important, however, was that they did not repeat the same unholy alliance of aiming and stat driven accuracy.

[Darth Executor]

Persephone wrote...

Darth Executor wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Okay, so comparing Bioware to Coca-Cola is pretty valid. They had a great base-- RPG enthusiasts-- and then went in a new direction.
When its base didn't like Coke, Coca-Cola went back to making old coke. It also branched out into other avenues.

Did Coca-Cola attack the people who didn't like New Coke, though?

I should say that where I live, Coke made a mistake at their manufacturing plant and produced toxic coke. Some people became seriously sick.
For the next five years, Coke sold their product at 33% [Edit: Actually, it was more accurately around 25%] of its sales price.

Do you see Bioware doing that? No? Oh, okay.

So Bioware really doesn't care at all about its customers.

No; don't see the correlation between this straw man either; just thought I would remind folks that after the dust-up, business was much better for a product they were already making the entire time.

Bioware already offers discounts and freebies, and some dislike this, too. Hater's hate.....

They really are trying very hard, esp. on the forums. To look for "apologies" in interviews/press releases is beyond naive.

What the devs are doing here (David, Mike, Luke, Rob etc.) matters more to me than any press release. Bioware doesn't care at all about its customers......what hogwash. Why ARE the devs still putting up with coming to the cesspool this forum has become?<_<

They are not doing anything here other than justifying ****** poor decisions.

Thanks for proving my point ever so graciously.

Butthurt detected.

[the_one_54321]

Perles75 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
They really are trying very hard, esp. on the forums. To look for "apologies" in interviews/press releases is beyond naive.

What the devs are doing here (David, Mike, Luke, Rob etc.) matters more to me than any press release. Bioware doesn't care at all about its customers......what hogwash. Why ARE the devs still putting up with coming to the cesspool this forum has become?<_<

Definitely true...

Right, it has nothing to do with the fact that the game has areas that are reused multiple times without even being reskinned, or that enemie spawning is just... horribly horribly bad, or that the end game includes almost zero consequences for any of your choices, or that the kill animations are a literal example of a code that was not finished (exploding bodies was not style, it was a short cut which is why they heads go all generic), or that despite all the dialog options the only way to approach any conflict resolution is by fighting.

You know, all the legitimate complaints that players have that they were talking about long long before the game even went gold. Naturally, that has nothing to do with wanting a candid owning-up to the choices made.

edit: Oh, and on a more personal note, it definitely has nothing to do with the fact that I was literally promised by the head developer that the game would have a tactical camera... and then it didn't. I really have no desire for an appology on that one.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 15 juin 2011 - 05:14 .

[Darth Executor]

FieryDove wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.

I disagree. I think the DA team listens far better than the ME team ever did. I bought me2 because of 1. Won't be getting 3 on promises even if they (Marketing) promise a free barney shoot mini-game and the Best pew-pew Game EVAR!.

Its good we all like different things, I'm sure the Devs would be bored to tears with a forum where everyone got along *and* liked everything.

Neither team listens. However, ME2 was an excellent pure shooter (the word RPG is nowhere to be found on the box), which is a good route to take since Bioware cannot into RPGs anymore. This contrasts it favorably with ME1 which was a bad RPG AND a bad shooter. So I really don't care if the DA team doesn't listen since their product has improved. To say the DA team listens, howerver, is an insult to the intelligence of everybody here. People routinely complained before the game was released about the exact same things they complain about now that it actually is released. When one gaming magazine (i think it was swedish) complained that the enviros were repetitive and lifeless, bioware acted all butthurt that it wasn't the final version and they told them a lot of stuff wasn't in, bla bla bla. Then the game is released and people complain about the same thing. I don't trust a word bioware says. To gauge their concern based on how much they post on these forums is inane. I'll believe they are capable of taking and applying useful criticism when they actually do it.

[the_one_54321]

Darth Executor wrote...
However, ME2 was an excellent pure shooter

Um, I can't agree there either. It was a lot of fun, but the mechanics of it were less than stellar. I'd rather play a Valve game for "an excellent pure shooter."

[FieryDove]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with you here. The ME team heard quite clearly that something needed to change from ME1 to ME2. It so happened that they went the route of making it an all out shooter, possibly because a lot of shooter fans came to play ME1, which hence, was the the reason fans were complaining about the stat driven aiming.

I lost all hope when the dev team/marketing spin said everyone loved planet scanning and ammo as skills insteads of real skills. I'm sorry...I just can't *believe* anymore. Eh no biggie.

[the_one_54321]

FieryDove wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm not sure that I entirely agree with you here. The ME team heard quite clearly that something needed to change from ME1 to ME2. It so happened that they went the route of making it an all out shooter, possibly because a lot of shooter fans came to play ME1, which hence, was the the reason fans were complaining about the stat driven aiming.

I lost all hope when the dev team/marketing spin said everyone loved planet scanning and ammo as skills insteads of real skills. I'm sorry...I just can't *believe* anymore. Eh no biggie.

I was actually kind of between love and hate on the planet scanning. I enjoyed doing it. Up until I realized how often it had to be done. I'm not sure what you mean about ammo as skills though.

[Jerrybnsn]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Darth Executor wrote...
However, ME2 was an excellent pure shooter

Um, I can't agree there either. It was a lot of fun, but the mechanics of it were less than stellar. I'd rather play a Valve game for "an excellent pure shooter."

I agree with this.  ME1 was a bad shooter but ME2 was far from an excellent shooter.  It was better, but I wouldn't put it up there with other shooters like CoD, Uncharted, or the Halo series.

[FieryDove]

Darth Executor wrote...

Neither team listens. However, ME2 was an excellent pure shooter (the word RPG is nowhere to be found on the box), which is a good route to take since Bioware cannot into RPGs anymore. This contrasts it favorably with ME1 which was a bad RPG AND a bad shooter. So I really don't care if the DA team doesn't listen since their product has improved. To say the DA team listens, howerver, is an insult to the intelligence of everybody here. People routinely complained before the game was released about the exact same things they complain about now that it actually is released. When one gaming magazine (i think it was swedish) complained that the enviros were repetitive and lifeless, bioware acted all butthurt that it wasn't the final version and they told them a lot of stuff wasn't in, bla bla bla. Then the game is released and people complain about the same thing. I don't trust a word bioware says. To gauge their concern based on how much they post on these forums is inane. I'll believe they are capable of taking and applying useful criticism when they actually do it.

I worded that poorly as I was not trying to insult anyone. Some of the DA team listens and very well. Marketing for both games has too much tail-spin, in fact so much so it makes me never want to buy a game again from EA.

[the_one_54321]

FieryDove wrote...
I worded that poorly as I was not trying to insult anyone. Some of the DA team listens and very well. Marketing for both games has too much tail-spin, in fact so much so it makes me never want to buy a game again from EA.

This is true for myself as well. I never bought EA games to begin with until they purchased BioWare. The way things are going right now, it could easily be that I never buy another EA game again, including BioWare. It all depends on the their next couple releases, DLC not included.

[Elhanan]

Brockololly wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I prefer to read what the Good Doctor's say for themselves rather than another outside spokesperson:

http://www.gamasutra...ctors_speak.php

Except the "outside spokesperson" in the Eurogamer interview is Frank Gibeau, the EA Games Label President. Who I'm pretty sure is higher up on the EA food chain than the Doctors.

Nope; may have been the quote source, but the article is by someone named Wesley that is trying to translate. I prefer to read the source directly; not the grapevine.

[Slayer299]

@the_one_54321 - you must have missed David Silverman's interview in Feb 2011 when he explained how the tactical camera 'ruined the fidelity of the game' and they didn't want details to 'distract you'. <_<

Back OT - Sure EA is admitting they lost some fans, but I think overall they aren't retooling/thinking their strategy for the next DA title. It's a bottom line only situation for the DA series right now, as long as it's a cash cow EA will be content to milk it for what it can. Any comments by them are just minor dmg control to give a false sense of 'we care' to gamers who actually 'do' care about DA3.


edit - typo

Modifié par Slayer299, 15 juin 2011 - 05:27 .

[the_one_54321]

Slayer299 wrote...
@the_one_54321 - you must have missed David Silverman's interview in Feb 2011 when he explained how the tactical camera 'ruined the fidelity of the game' and they didn't want details to 'distract you'. <_<

No, I didn't. i remember that when I saw that I wanted to throw something pointy at my computer screen.

Oh, and when he said "did you even notice the books before I mentioned it?" I was practically screaming at the computer, "YES I DID!!!"

Modifié par the_one_54321, 15 juin 2011 - 05:34 .

[Elhanan]

the_one_54321 wrote...

While I certainly don't begrudge you liking the game, I can't help but feel that you're putting everything through a no-negative-outlook filter here. Remember that "the game had some serious problems" is not the same as "the game was an absolute pile of crap." I can understand your frustration with the folks that insist, despite all reason and any example that the game was a pile of crap and there's no good reason to like it whatsoever, but don't become part of the equal and opposite crowd that close their eyes to all forms of fair criticism and insist that the game was wonderful despite all reason and example to the contrary.

The game was not a pile of crap, largely because it came from DA:O and what it kept from DA:O was still pretty darn awesome and it did a couple of new things that worked well. However, the game very obviously suffered a lot from being rushed out in 18 months instead of 2-4 years and that showed up with glaring obviousness.

No filter. I also liked DAO more than DA2, and have noticed a few of the same issues as some others. What I contend is that I do not see the same game as the OP article writer, nor many of those posting in the forums.

[Jerrybnsn]

But remember the bottom line here is that "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this."--Mike Laidlaw