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Eurogamer Article: "EA: We lost some fans with Dragon Age 2"


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#626
Elhanan

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Right, it has nothing to do with the fact that the game has areas that are reused multiple times without even being reskinned, or that enemie spawning is just... horribly horribly bad, or that the end game includes almost zero consequences for any of your choices, or that the kill animations are a literal example of a code that was not finished (exploding bodies was not style, it was a short cut which is why they heads go all generic), or that despite all the dialog options the only way to approach any conflict resolution is by fighting.


And does repeated areas, enemy spawns, etc require the intense level of Hatred seen in these forums? By your own admonition, they do not.

You know, all the legitimate complaints that players have that they were talking about long long before the game even went gold. Naturally, that has nothing to do with wanting a candid owning-up to the choices made.

edit: Oh, and on a more personal note, it definitely has nothing to do with the fact that I was literally promised by the head developer that the game would have a tactical camera... and then it didn't. I really have no desire for an appology on that one.


Good point that there were the constant barrage of complaints before Gold; certain none of these were reflected in the same day Zero ratings seen on the Net.

And I had a tactical 3rd Person view, though it was not as sweeping as DAO had been. With only a few exceptions on stairs and tunnels, I was easily able to keep up with the party. Even the battle map had the red dots to indicate opponent positions like with Survival from DAO; no skill required.

I can only speak for myself, but it is not reasoned discourse that I oppose, but the opinionated Hatred seen flourishing on the Forums.

#627
Slayer299

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
@the_one_54321 - you must have missed David Silverman's interview in Feb 2011 when he explained how the tactical camera 'ruined the fidelity of the game' and they didn't want details to 'distract you'. <_<

No, I didn't. i remember that when I saw that I wanted to throw something pointy at my computer screen. :pinched:

Oh, and when he said "did you even notice the books before I mentioned it?" I was practically screaming at the computer, "YES I DID!!!"


lol, I know the feeling. I've never heard a game having too many details before that interview. Sadly, even the interviewer thought details were useless.

#628
dheer

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the_one_54321 wrote...
...but don't become part of the equal and opposite crowd that close their eyes to all forms of fair criticism and insist that the game was wonderful despite all reason and example to the contrary.

They already have. I see these two do nothing but harp on anyone who doesn't agree with their views.

#629
ink07

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Elhanan wrote...

I can only speak for myself, but it is not reasoned discourse that I oppose, but the opinionated Hatred seen flourishing on the Forums.



Not realy. People give you reasoned responses and you label them as hatred as well, always had, and end up throwing some quote to sound clever. You are no better than a troll with a hollier than thou attitude, bashing not people's opinions, but people themselves. Don't like the tone of the conversation? Leave it be. It is you who often make it personal by disqualifying people's criticims because "you have seen them before" or "boo hoo it is all hate hate hate".

People feel strongly about the game and sure as hell they want Bioware to listen, because so far they seem to have not. It doesn't matter if you feel bioware are "aware" of the issues, or if you didn't "miss" the tactical camera that was promised prior to development, or if you found the combat suitable, to many others who have to read PR speech like : "some guys didn't understand our 'innovations'"  is a slap in the face and nothing more. Who are you to tell others how are they suppossed to react towards that kind of discourse? They are as much customers of Bioware as you are.

Modifié par ink07, 15 juin 2011 - 06:10 .


#630
rougeman

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why do we even want to see bioware try anymore its not like they'll stop and think well are former core fan group is actually better as a whole and start making good games again.

#631
Bejos_

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
@the_one_54321 - you must have missed David Silverman's interview in Feb 2011 when he explained how the tactical camera 'ruined the fidelity of the game' and they didn't want details to 'distract you'. <_<

No, I didn't. i remember that when I saw that I wanted to throw something pointy at my computer screen. :pinched:

Oh, and when he said "did you even notice the books before I mentioned it?" I was practically screaming at the computer, "YES I DID!!!"


The funny thing about that is, that he thought that would be a good argument to make. :D

#632
Elhanan

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ink07 wrote...

Not realy. People give you reasoned responses and you label them as hatred as well, always had, and end up throwing some quote to sound clever. You are no better than a troll with a hollier than thou attitude, bashing not people's opinions, but people themselves. Don't like the tone of the conversation? Leave it be. It is you who often make it personal by disqualifying people's criticims because "you have seen them before" or "boo hoo it is all hate hate hate".

People feel strongly about the game and sure as hell they want Bioware to listen, because so far they seem to have not. It doesn't matter if you feel bioware are "aware" of the issues, or if you didn't "miss" the tactical camera that was promised prior to development, or if you found the combat suitable, to many others who have to read PR speech like : "some guys didn't understand our 'innovations'"  is a slap in the face and nothing more. Who are you to tell others how are they suppossed to react towards that kind of discourse? They are as much customers of Bioware as you are.


Image IPB

Perhaps if people that made 'reasoned responces' with less feelings and more objectivity, this might be a different set of Forums today. Que sadilla-sadilla!

And since I can mark my rather acidic mark on replies as somwhere ca. post April 2011, and I have been posting on Bio-Boards pre-NWN1 before 2000, I guess the 'always had' ref is kinda bogus as well, all feelings aside.

#633
Anathemic

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Yeah I'm not buying EA's crap.

I'm pretty satisfied with my decision not to get DA2, judging from the pre-launch press. Let's see if DA3 will be similar, or on a more recent upcoming BioWare title, ME3. Oh boy.

Modifié par Anathemic, 15 juin 2011 - 07:11 .


#634
Elhanan

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dheer wrote...

They already have. I see these two do nothing but harp on anyone who doesn't agree with their views.


nah! I left my harp in Sam Clown's disco.... Image IPB

Plus I have been posting for some time, and while many would reject knowing me, there may be a few left that know this ain't so. But it is nice to be noticed....

#635
Jerrybnsn

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To me the whole article is EA supporting Mike Laidlaw's original vision of DAII when it come to making DAIII. Because Mike Laidlaw said, even while acknowledging some of DAII's faults, "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this."

So with the EA executive saying, while still admitting DAII's faults, they lost "some" of the fans but gained "a lot" of new ones the DAII platform is a guarantee. EA will always try to reach out to the "a lot" rather than the "some". (even though in reality it looks like they lost "a lot" of fans and only gained "some" new ones.)

Anyway, I still haunt these posts in hopes they will change their minds.

#636
the_one_54321

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Elhanan wrote...

dheer wrote...
They already have. I see these two do nothing but harp on anyone who doesn't agree with their views.


nah! I left my harp in Sam Clown's disco.... Image IPB

Plus I have been posting for some time, and while many would reject knowing me, there may be a few left that know this ain't so. But it is nice to be noticed....

Elhanan has been around longer than me. And I've been around since like 2004.

#637
Bejos_

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I'm not really clued up on the gaming industry, but here's a theory that I've come across:

EA marketed DA:O as what DA2 actually is.
That's why DA:O sold so well.
Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar. (I don't know if they counted repeated origins playthroughs. A lot of people may just have played multiple origins after their first for the achievements, and then stopped at Ostegar.)
Because of this really low play-through rate, Bioware realised that they were in for a storm if they didn't match the product to the advertising.
Hence, DA2 production started before or at about the same time DA:O came out.
The final product, DA2, is what DA:O was marketed as.
They may just have burned their possible new audience with DA:O, and discouraged their old audience with DA2.

Anyway, that's the theory. It sounds like a possible explanation for Bioware's deaf ears during and post production of DA2. Anyone care to comment on how possible this is?

#638
Guns

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Don't understand how a cartoon hack n slash is suppose to reel in the cod crowd? I remember back when I was playing the Dragon Age 2 demo my brother still said "That looks gay, get off." before kicking me off the xbox. Only difference between that and when I was playing Origins is that I agreed with him.

Bejos_ wrote...

Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar. 


That is simply not true.

Modifié par Guns, 15 juin 2011 - 07:34 .


#639
Anathemic

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Guns wrote...

Don't understand how a cartoon hack n slash is suppose to reel in the cod crowd? I remember back when I was playing the Dragon Age 2 demo my brother still said "That looks gay, get off." before kicking me off the xbox. Only difference between that and when I was playing Origins is that I agreed with him.


This is true, I have no idea how you are going to attract the CoD crowd with the Dragon Age franchise or why bother with it.

#640
Bejos_

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Guns wrote...

Don't understand how a cartoon hack n slash is suppose to reel in the cod crowd? I remember back when I was playing the Dragon Age 2 demo my brother still said "That looks gay, get off." before kicking me off the xbox. Only difference between that and when I was playing Origins is that I agreed with him.

Bejos_ wrote...

Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar. 


That is simply not true.


That number's been floating around these forums, certainly. Like I said, I don't know if that includes multiple playthroughs.
I'm going to try to find a source for that number. Don't hold your breath :) Like I said, just curious about this theory.
Even without the play-through numbers-- is it possible the above is what happened?

#641
the_one_54321

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Guns wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...
Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar.

That is simply not true.

Perhaps it means that 20% of all games that got started were also finished. Not that only 20% of people that bought the game ever finished it.

#642
Guest_Puddi III_*

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

dheer wrote...
They already have. I see these two do nothing but harp on anyone who doesn't agree with their views.


nah! I left my harp in Sam Clown's disco.... Image IPB

Plus I have been posting for some time, and while many would reject knowing me, there may be a few left that know this ain't so. But it is nice to be noticed....

Elhanan has been around longer than me. And I've been around since like 2004.


So what are you doing for your seventh birthday, the_one? :P

#643
Jerrybnsn

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Bejos_ wrote...

I'm not really clued up on the gaming industry, but here's a theory that I've come across:

EA marketed DA:O as what DA2 actually is.
That's why DA:O sold so well.
Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar. (I don't know if they counted repeated origins playthroughs. A lot of people may just have played multiple origins after their first for the achievements, and then stopped at Ostegar.)
Because of this really low play-through rate, Bioware realised that they were in for a storm if they didn't match the product to the advertising.
Hence, DA2 production started before or at about the same time DA:O came out.
The final product, DA2, is what DA:O was marketed as.
They may just have burned their possible new audience with DA:O, and discouraged their old audience with DA2.

Anyway, that's the theory. It sounds like a possible explanation for Bioware's deaf ears during and post production of DA2. Anyone care to comment on how possible this is?


Origins was advertised as a throw back to the old-school RPGs, specifically Baldur's Gate.  Is that what you think DAII is?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 juin 2011 - 07:41 .


#644
Anathemic

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Lol NeoGAF is having a field day with this article

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=433894

Edit: Favorite quote "Has a franchise ever been destroyed as quickly as Dragon Age?"

Modifié par Anathemic, 15 juin 2011 - 07:42 .


#645
Bejos_

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...
Apparently DA:O had a silly play rate-- something like only 20% of people got past Ostegar.

That is simply not true.

Perhaps it means that 20% of all games that got started were also finished. Not that only 20% of people that bought the game ever finished it.


Yeah, that's what I thought-- that the number includes multiple playthroughs. I can't imagine only 20% of people got past Ostagar. Still. The rest of the theory: Is it possible?

Modifié par Bejos_, 15 juin 2011 - 07:42 .


#646
Bejos_

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Anathemic wrote...

Lol NeoGAF is having a field day with this article

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=433894

Edit: Favorite quote "Has a franchise ever been destroyed as quickly as Dragon Age?"


Yes :) That's where I got the theory. Visanideth posted it. He might be on to something.

#647
Oopsieoops

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Slayer299 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
@the_one_54321 - you must have missed David Silverman's interview in Feb 2011 when he explained how the tactical camera 'ruined the fidelity of the game' and they didn't want details to 'distract you'. <_<

No, I didn't. i remember that when I saw that I wanted to throw something pointy at my computer screen. :pinched:

Oh, and when he said "did you even notice the books before I mentioned it?" I was practically screaming at the computer, "YES I DID!!!"


lol, I know the feeling. I've never heard a game having too many details before that interview. Sadly, even the interviewer thought details were useless.

I can't really blame them, though. Nowadays every game journalist has to brown-nose on interviews otherwise devs will refuse to talk to them and they'll be out of jobs. Quite similar to day-one reviews, actually.

#648
Maverick827

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Anathemic wrote...

Lol NeoGAF is having a field day with this article

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=433894

Edit: Favorite quote "Has a franchise ever been destroyed as quickly as Dragon Age?"

Wait a second...is that forum trying to compete with these forums as the least constructive place to discuss Dragon Age 2?!

To hell with that!

Quick, someone get the neppakyo signal: we need some more hyperbole and misinformation in this thread, now.

#649
the_one_54321

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Filament wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

dheer wrote...
They already have. I see these two do nothing but harp on anyone who doesn't agree with their views.

nah! I left my harp in Sam Clown's disco.... Image IPB

Plus I have been posting for some time, and while many would reject knowing me, there may be a few left that know this ain't so. But it is nice to be noticed....

Elhanan has been around longer than me. And I've been around since like 2004.

So what are you doing for your seventh birthday, the_one? :P

I dunno. You think they ought to offer me some kind of token appreciation gift or something! B)

#650
haberman13

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FieryDove wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Different teams. The Mass Effect devs proved themselves with ME2. Almost every choice from ME1 is acknowledged,  and they improved gameplay by listening to feedback. The result was solid gold.

So while I won't preorder DA3, I feel completely safe pre-ordering ME3.


I disagree. I think the DA team listens far better than the ME team ever did. I bought me2 because of 1. Won't be getting 3 on promises even if they (Marketing) promise a free barney shoot mini-game and the Best pew-pew Game EVAR!. Image IPB

Its good we all like different things, I'm sure the Devs would be bored to tears with a forum where everyone got along *and* liked everything.Image IPB


I absolutely agree... I would buy DA3 way before ME3.

ME2 was a massive disappointment of gimped features and streamlining out the good stuff in leiu of pew pew and duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shootduck/shoot duck/shoot
duck/shoot duck/shoot