738 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

I don't have any bugs with my Origins. Other than some items properties doing no real effect. Most of the rest is patched or fixed by the community.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Is there a tl;dr version for those of us who care, but not enough to force you to write a tl;dr message?

[Persephone]

RageGT wrote...

I don't have any bugs with my Origins. Other than some items properties doing no real effect. Most of the rest is patched or fixed by the community.

Depends on how deeply you dig into that toolset. LOTS of broken stuff there. And while the PC has the advantage of Mods, who'll fix those bugs for the consoles?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

Hawke is just dull. And passive. And uninteresting.

Not my Hawkes.

You don't have a Hawke, only Bioware has.

Let's see... I have 7 finished Hawkes with Post Campaign saves. And I'm attached to them all. Can't say the same for all of my Wardens.

Doesn't change the fact that those 7 Hawkes were essentially predefined by Bioware.

No more or less than my Wardens. So?

I think having a predetermined voice, family members that you are supposed to connect to, and and Hawke having no real influence on the events of the plot is what the user means, Perse.

I have family members I'm supposed to connect to in every Origin of DAO. I am forced to become a GW in every Origin. Ostagar happens all the time. And by then I usually lose interest these days.

Yeah. The rail roaded story of DA2 did much better in the replay department.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

Hawke is just dull. And passive. And uninteresting.

Not my Hawkes. 

You don't have a Hawke, only Bioware has.

Let's see... I have 7 finished Hawkes with Post Campaign saves. And I'm attached to them all. Can't say the same for all of my Wardens.

Doesn't change the fact that those 7 Hawkes were essentially predefined by Bioware.

No more or less than my Wardens. So?

I think having a predetermined voice, family members that you are supposed to connect to, and and Hawke having no real influence on the events of the plot is what the user means, Perse.

I have family members I'm supposed to connect to in every Origin of DAO. I am forced to become a GW in every Origin. Ostagar happens all the time. And by then I usually lose interest these days.

Does Hawke also have a predetermined race, status as a "Champion" that you are reliving from Varric(rather than you building up a Warden in the present as a legendary hero/anti-hero), a predetermined voice?

I don't really care about the race thing, it did not offer THAT much different stuff once the Origins were over. As for fixed voices, they actually had NONE, just a doe in the headlights "emoting" extravaganza here & there. (Even at times where I did NOT want her to looks sad...I.E. RTO) Status as a "Warden", always the same, no matter how many times I try Duncan to leave me the hell alone.

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

YEAH WELL

YOU'RE A BIODRONE

jk love you really

[Persephone]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

Hawke is just dull. And passive. And uninteresting.

Not my Hawkes.

You don't have a Hawke, only Bioware has.

Let's see... I have 7 finished Hawkes with Post Campaign saves. And I'm attached to them all. Can't say the same for all of my Wardens.

Doesn't change the fact that those 7 Hawkes were essentially predefined by Bioware.

No more or less than my Wardens. So?

I think having a predetermined voice, family members that you are supposed to connect to, and and Hawke having no real influence on the events of the plot is what the user means, Perse.

I have family members I'm supposed to connect to in every Origin of DAO. I am forced to become a GW in every Origin. Ostagar happens all the time. And by then I usually lose interest these days.

Yeah. The rail roaded story of DA2 did much better in the replay department.

For me it did. Shocking, I know.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

That people need a voice actor to connect to their character is sad. So much for imagination and actually role playing these days.

[-Skorpious-]

I didn't dislike Hawke because he/she was a voiced protagonist, but rather how...dull (in the grand scheme of things) the character was. After the prologue, are "Hawke" spent nearly 1/3 of the game completing sidequests for money, his/her "rise to power" was predetermined (deciding how Hawke climbs the social ladder of Kirkwall would have been completely amazing), and whose role in the story was nothing more than a mere catalyst for future expansion.

The Warden on the other-hand, SHAPED and manipulated the narrative with his/her actions. The Warden's choices determined the fate of entire clans/villages, political landscapes, and even Ferelden's future after the Blight - Hawke came nowhere close to that level of interaction with the plot, and that is why the Warden will always be the superior of the two characters in my opinion.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 14 juin 2011 - 02:28 .

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

YEAH WELL

YOU'RE A BIODRONE

jk love you really

If that makes me a Biodrone, I'll be a Biodrone. And be proud of it to.

[Oopsieoops]

mrcrusty wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Oopsieoops wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

Hawke is just dull. And passive. And uninteresting.

Not my Hawkes. 

You don't have a Hawke, only Bioware has.

Let's see... I have 7 finished Hawkes with Post Campaign saves. And I'm attached to them all. Can't say the same for all of my Wardens.

Doesn't change the fact that those 7 Hawkes were essentially predefined by Bioware.

Can you elaborate?

Is that a comment on the lack of narrative power you're given by the game, or a comment on the fact that Hawke is a fixed protagonist?

The unvarying narrative narrativve is a problem, but of the world and not really related to Hawke per se. What I meant is that you have no control (not even a imaginary one) over what kind of person your character is apart from the 3 archetypes. Ultimately even your objective decisons are swayed by the system, since decisions of being e.g. pro-mage/templar were often tied to the personalities.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I can kind of see where Perse's coming from though. I think the issue stems from the Warden being more of a blank slate character, while the predefined aspects of Hawke that would turn most people off are actually positives to her as they make Hawke seem like a more interesting character.

Am I getting that right?

Honestly, I feel the same way about Geralt in both Witcher games. Despite his aversion to politics and deeper thought, if you lead him to be more involved by choice, he does surprise from time to time with philosophical or political insight. What's great is that his insight aligns itself with the "side" that you chose for him. I liked that aspect. An example is how he talks to Triss about Saskia near the end of a Iorveth playthrough.


All this talk about shaping the world and narrative through your choices makes me nostalgic for Fallout. I think I've spoken a bit on how much I loved The Master's speech at the end, but considering the context of my playthrough, it was freaking epic. One of my best gaming moments only made better when I played through it again and made different decisions.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 14 juin 2011 - 02:30 .

[DragonRageGT]

Persephone wrote...

RageGT wrote...

I don't have any bugs with my Origins. Other than some items properties doing no real effect. Most of the rest is patched or fixed by the community.

Depends on how deeply you dig into that toolset. LOTS of broken stuff there. And while the PC has the advantage of Mods, who'll fix those bugs for the consoles?

There's a thread I started begging BW and EA not to release DA2 until Origins were fully patched with nothing left to fix. Given EA record with patching their games (except BF 1942 but that's a mplayer game..hmm.. BfME is too and never fixed) it was the right thing to do, IMHO. Chris said they would not abandon Origins etc, etc, etc. Well, there is one patch to be released, I know but, how long it is now since the patch?

Maybe if console players refused to buy a sequel before a game is fully fixed, that might work for something. I'm sorry for console users but PC rulez! We can have it fixed even if devs are too lazy to do it! (not the case, I believe that problem is with certification and patch size and not being allowed to release a PC only patch and not having budget from Big Daddy to fund the work on the patch, etc, etc, etc)

[Persephone]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

That people need a voice actor to connect to their character is sad. So much for imagination and actually role playing these days.

It's not just that. I connected to my Children of Bhaal just fine. I've also played RPGs where there is little to no VO acting (I. E. Might & Magic VI) and loved them. I do not connect half as much to my Shepard. With Hawke it just clicked emotionally.

[Herr Uhl]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

That people need a voice actor to connect to their character is sad. So much for imagination and actually role playing these days.

That people need graphics to connect with their character is sad. So much for imagination and actually role playing these days.

/generic insult

[FieryDove]

Persephone wrote...

Do you REALLY expect the devs to bash their own game? 

Not at all. In fact I was super surprised when they did it to DAO to market DA2 early on.

I just don't understand the time crunch. If they were rushed and knew they had short development cycle why waste resources/time re-doing so much of the art/style/whatever. If they didn't know and were told push it out I think that's crazy. Why can the ME and ToR team get all the time they need? Not fair...I say we all go on strike...somehow.

If according to David Silverman this is what people want/need (Sparse detailed areas/reused areas, for more graphical fidelity well I don't know what to say.) Nobody enjoyed the circle tower in origins because it had too many books? Or too many books did a negative hit on certain framerates so the camera had to go along with the books? I'll never know...marketing/PR is alien to me much like politicians in the U.S.

Innovations? I don't know how they are using the word. Yes the ebil wheel has icons is a step over ME's old one and personality tracking is new for Bioware games I think? Framed Narriative with an unreliable narrator is new yes? Means Hawke is in DA3 with what REALLY happened.

Bleh I need coffee its too early...pardon my ramblings.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Persephone wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

That people need a voice actor to connect to their character is sad. So much for imagination and actually role playing these days.

It's not just that. I connected to my Children of Bhaal just fine. I've also played RPGs where there is little to no VO acting (I. E. Might & Magic VI) and loved them. I do not connect half as much to my Shepard. With Hawke it just clicked emotionally.

The difference with DA2 being your choices don't really matter. The game, the narrative, is completely predetermined in a way that no matter what you choose its always going to play out pretty much the same way.

Yay I can be friendly, sarcastic, or mean Hawke. Like it supposidly matters at all in the end. Oh and hey I can guess at dialog too because the paraphrase system still sucks ass.

[Herr Uhl]

FieryDove wrote...

I just don't understand the time crunch. If they were rushed and knew they had short development cycle why waste resources/time re-doing so much of the art/style/whatever. If they didn't know and were told push it out I think that's crazy. Why can the ME and ToR team get all the time they need? Not fair...I say we all go on strike...somehow.

ME and ToR are seen as larger franchises?

[Oopsieoops]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You've got to be joking. Players had far more opportunities to create unique wardens than Hawkes. Hawke can go three ways (diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive) but with your warden you're not forced down those three paths.

I'm not forced down anything in either game. (Personality wise) My Wardens are mostly mute, uninvolved pixels. (Except my Canon Warden) I connect more to my Hawkes than to any of my Wardens. End of story.

But now you're arguing something different. What you are saying is that you couldn't be emotionally involved with the wardens due to them being mute and at first glance passive. What we're saying is that the Warden as more unique in terms of characterization than Hawke was, and that's a good deal precisely due to them being mute. The voice, the cutscene behaviour and facial expressions, etc, they all may make you personally feel more engaged and interested, but each of those things necessarily takes away your ability to define the character to a degree, and ultimately it adds up to merely 3 Hawkes. Hawkes strongly pre-defined by Bioware, which was my original point all along.

[-Semper-]

yeah, now ea and bioware doom da2 and promise to make it all better and more epic and back to the roots with da3. in the end it will be the same **** all over again.

[Monica83]

Yes dragon age 2 don't have many choice to make.. Also the introduction session who die? Is determined of what class you pick.. If you pick a mage carver will survive.. If you pick a warrior bethany will survive... When story is forced to follow gameplay the plot become weak.. There a lot of those things in DA2..Like the thing that almost any romanceable character are Bi... I liked more origins also in this aspect... And what about the combat.. 6 meter of jump forward to hit an ennemy.. Teleport attack... Silly japanese style animations..Bloodmages that stab themself with the staff to trow speels..Exploding no sense body...Recycled areas... Static areas all similiar with very poor details.. Elves that looks like pink navi without tail.....

For me DA2 is a garbage sequel in theyr aspect.. also in the dialogues.. the tone are different but manytimes all dialogues have the same result....

And oh... yes.... the choices....just an illusion...

Yes for me is INDEED a garbage sequel.. i feel sorry for the people that pay 50 bucks for it

[twincast]

Persephone wrote...
Do you REALLY expect the devs to bash their own game?

They managed to bash the hell out of Origins for months well enough.