54 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

*sigh*

Ashley was never a racist nor religious bigot.

[Stardusk78]

Mesina2 wrote...

*sigh*

Ashley was never a racist nor religious bigot.

To be honest, as long as she keeps her hot look, I don't care.

Modifié par Stardusk78, 14 juin 2011 - 01:02 .

[Insom]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

It's pretty hard to be racist when aliens will be saving the human race.

A human will be saving the human race. A human has to get all the alien asses in gear

[jbblue05]

Ash is not a racist she's just not as agreeable as pro-alien Shepard

[Forst1999]

She only had a pessimistic view on the political relationships between species. Questioning the wisdom of letting aliens on the most modern Alliance ship might be over-cautious, but not racist. Assuming that the council races will abondon humnanity if they need to (her dog and bear story) might be cynic, but not racist. She said some politically incorrect things when you romance both her and Liara, that's true, but it was a very uncommon situation and she is very emotional at times. Granted, that was a little bit racist. On Horizon she says "I'm no fan of aliens", that doesn't mean she hates aliens for being aliens, but that she is self-aware on her lack of an open mind. It's a start.
On other occasions she tears real racists a new one, see the Terra Firma quest. We know other characters who are not racist, but work for an organization that is build upon xenophobia and tolerate that. So i think we should give her a little credit for her outspoken critique of racists, even if she herself isn't a paragon of open-mindedness.
Ashley has a pessimistic view of galactic politics and she could be more open minded. But at no point does she ever judge characters on their race, never expresses a view that humanity should dominate the other species. She is not a racist.

[Ulathar]

Mesina2 wrote...

*sigh*

Ashley was never a racist nor religious bigot.

Nor will she be in ME3. (prediction)

[Whatever42]

As said, Ash is more nationalist than racist. She's doesn't believe herself superior to aliens. She doesn't want to conquer aliens. She simply doesn't trust the governments of the other species to be reliable allies.

Shepard can play that way too. Kill the council. Support Cerberus. Save the Collector base. That path will undoubtedly lead to humanity standing alone. In fact, that was far more human isolationist than even Ashley supported.

Not to mention, paragon (lets all hug the aliens) Shepard can reform Ash in ME1 to the paragon viewpoint.

[TheChris92]

From the Ashley support thread.

The following is written by former BioWare writer, Chris L'Etoile, who wrote Ashley, and posts around the web. He wrote something interesting on the Penny Arcade forum, with the username "Stormwaltz". Anyway, here is what he had to say about this.

I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd expect from a xenophobe.
In her first conversation she spells out her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":
When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior: 


1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL. If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.

2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS. No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.

3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.And it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?

Anyway. I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here.
To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions.

Link to post.

Modifié par TheChris92, 14 juin 2011 - 01:02 .

[T764]

BickDutt wrote...

Ashley and Kaidan will be the same character.

I read that and immediately thought of Baron Ashura from Mazinkaiser.

[jbblue05]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

As said, Ash is more nationalist than racist. She's doesn't believe herself superior to aliens. She doesn't want to conquer aliens. She simply doesn't trust the governments of the other species to be reliable allies.

Shepard can play that way too. Kill the council. Support Cerberus. Save the Collector base. That path will undoubtedly lead to humanity standing alone. In fact, that was far more human isolationist than even Ashley supported.

Not to mention, paragon (lets all hug the aliens) Shepard can reform Ash in ME1 to the paragon viewpoint.

You mean a blind optimist viewpoint that is proven to be wrong in ME2

[turian councilor Knockout]

Come on, Ashley have never been a racist, she's just slow to trust aliens but that isn't so hard to understand after all conflicts humanity had with aliens in past, she's perfectly fine working with aliens after all so face it, Ashley's more cautious by nature than a real racist.

[marshalleck]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

Insom wrote...

Blasto the jelly wrote...

It's pretty hard to be racist when aliens will be saving the human race.

A human will be saving the human race. A human has to get all the alien asses in gear

Without the aliens that human wouldn't save anything, depending on your choices i think im assuming Millions will die fighting the Reapers most of them will be aliens if not all..Shepard just got them to help but they will be dying for it.

Only an idiot tries to go it alone when there are plenty of useful tools laying around, just asking to be put to use.

[Nimander]

Ashley was never a racist. She was a /cynic/. There's a major difference. She basically said the aliens would choose their own over humanity -- just like /we would/, more or less.

As for religious nut? Um. She has one line where she says she's religious. That makes you a religious nut? Oy.

[FlyingWalrus]

Don't you get it? Having a religion at all makes you a religious nut. Especially if you're one of dem Christians. Get with the times, man!

[Dannyboy9876]

She didn't trust Garrus or Wrex.

So that makes her racist?

Damn it.

You humans are all racist! D:

[Silentblaze]

Oh for crying out loud!

Ashley wasn't a racist in ME1.  She NEVER was a racist. 

Ashley behavior was to show that humans haven't been around aliens and are still in fact newcomers.  Think of humanity as cliche hillbillies/redmecks in some backwater little town in the middle of tumbleweeds and tarantulas suddenly brought into a city filled with lights, music, and people from all 4 corners of the world.

She is more of a patriot to humanity. Humans, prior our meteoric advancement to the Council (Save Council), haven't earned the trust of the galaxy in ME1.  She doesn't want to trust our lives to strangers whom have not earned our trust yet. Neither did the Council want humans becoming a joint ruler of the galaxy and deciding the fate of trillions of lives when they know so little about them.

That was all. Mutual distrust of strange and unknown folks. That was what she was reminding Shepard of in THAT conversation.

'nuff said. <_<

[onelifecrisis]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

*sigh*

Ashley was never a racist nor religious bigot.

To be honest, as long as she keeps her hot look, I don't care.

Then the obvious question is: why did you make this thread?

[Itkovian]

Ashley started out with some prejudices, or at least a fair bit of xenophobia... but guess what? By the end of my playthroughs with Ashley surviving, she was right there defending alien rights against the Terra Firma people.

You see, she goes through this thing called CHARACTER GROWTH, which is generally associated with good writing. Unfortunately sometimes that distinction eludes certain people who pigeonhole characters.

In short, no, in ME3 she's not a racist... unless of course your Shepard somehow managed to push her towards it (I haven't tried a renegade playthrough with Ashley... though from what I understand she balks at your more extreme renegade talk anyway).

Itkovian

[Gabey5]

apparently the tc never played me1

[TornadoADV]

Even if she was, which she isn't, as pointed out before me. She'd be a speciesist, NOT a racist.

[The Elder King]

For what I saw in ME she's not a racist, she doesn't trust aliens enough (probably because of the Shanxi invasion and the problems her grandfather had because of the surrender). While most of my Shepard don't agree with her, this doesn't mean she's racist. Infact she doesn't trust either Terra Firma party (which is a xenophobic party) and Cerberus (which wants human survival, and maybe supremacy, over aliens). If she's really xenophobic or racist, she'll join at least inside Terra Firma (since she's an Alliance loyalist, she will never join Cerberus). Anyway I doubt that the Council will make a Human (because they didn't have problems in making Saren, which was at least apparently against humans). racist/xenophobic a Spectre.

[LPPrince]

I'm just gonna leave this here-

LPPrince wrote...



Well, in all actuality she isn't a racist nor a bigot.

Talk to her long enough instead of basing opinions on a few misconstrued statements and you find out that she doesn't hate aliens(she might not like them too much though) but that due to her family effectively being thrown in the dirt after her grandfather surrendering in the First Contact War, she feels we need to put more trust in ourselves than aliens.

Put it this way-

You've got a friend and a stranger who can drive you somewhere. You've known your friend for a long time and he's trustworthy, while obviously you have no clue who the stranger is. Who do you trust more?

Her argument is that we need to put more trust in our friend rather than the stranger. Humans, over aliens. Because if we put too much faith in them, they could easily throw us to the dogs what with us being the new guys on the block.

Makes perfect sense. But through talking with her, you can change her views. Make her realize that she should direct some of that lack of trust at humanity since it was humans who made her family look bad after the First Contact War. Humans decided that her family should be somewhat "blacklisted". Humans look down on her.

And then? She not only lightens up, but she comes to trust aliens more. To the point where she suggests saving the Council when the Destiny Ascension is under attack.

As for her, "I don't like aliens, but I'll never join Cerberus" comment in ME2, I think the first half of that was just bad.

That's the fault of the writers, not her. Once changing her views in ME1, she shouldn't of said that. As for not joining Cerberus, she still views them as a Pro-Humanity group that wants all others(in other words, aliens) put down.

She'll never join them. Why? Because she knows that many in Cerberus are racists. She also slams Charles Saracino towards the end of ME1 when he tries to get Commander Shepard to back him for becoming leader of the Terra Firma party. Why?

Because she feels Terra Firma is a group for racists. If she were a true racist, she'd of jumped on Cerberus and Terra Firma's bandwagons at the first opportunity. She didn't.

She knows that racism is wrong. She knows that wanting to slaughter people because they aren't human is evil.

She'll never do it. BUT-

She hasn't been exposed to aliens much at all. Doesn't know how to react to them, doesn't know who to trust and not trust, and is still in sort of a limbo state.

Its up to Shepard to make her see that she can in fact trust the other races. Its up to Shepard to make her see that aliens aren't going to stab us in the back at the first opportunity.

She's got built in trust issues due to a lot of understandable factors. Its hard to kick what's ingrained into your mind from a young age.

But Shepard can do it. Shepard can make her finally release all those pent up trust issues.

That's what Ashley fans are doing. That's what we're trying to do. That's what we can hopefully accomplish in ME3.

In ME1, we got to make her see that. In ME2, we don't know what went wrong(lore wise). In ME3, its finally time to get Ashley to realize that we're all on the same team no matter what planet we were born on and we can trust them just as much as we can trust our neighbors here on Earth.

That's why we don't hate her. That's why we don't call her a racist or a bigot.

She's a victim. She needs help. And we're going to give her the help she needs.